#anti-kishimoto

[bodegacowboy]

I’m sure this has been said before, but I’ve only just realized it after all these years. Most of what Sakura said to Naruto about his feelings for her in The Last ironically applied to her instead. It’s an incredible act of projection for a character presented to the audience as being, in this moment, wise and insightful.

I know the typical response to this will be something like, "You’re still mad, lol," and so on. I get it. But any student of history has, at some point, looked back at a period of time and wondered, "What were they thinking?" Now, I’m not saying the Naruto manga is equivalent to something like World War I, but the further removed you are from certain events, the more they start to feel like stories. And in those stories—whether from history, life, or literature—there are moments that make you pause and think, What were they thinking?

[avenger-hawk]

Hi, do you think Sasuke could have married Sakura out of guilt and as a sign of gratitude that she did not give up on him? Or does he really love her in a romantic way? I know that he cares about her in his own way,that she is dear to him, but is this romantic love?

Sasuke married Sak*ra because kishi wanted more money so he created the new generation that in order to be liked instantly by old fans had to be related to it and not new characters, that's why he created couples even if he initially wrote a shounen without romantic couples mostly, and this is the main reason they married, to create a new character for the new manga.

In universe Sasuke was tamed into submission and brainwashed, part of this was guilt tripping into believing everything he did was a crime to atone. Imo marrying sak*ra was a part of guilt tripping, not love and nothing romantic even if he did care about her as a friend in part 1.

my antiSS tag X

[chattegeorgiana]

What do you think of Kishimoto saying that he only put narusaku and the parallels with Kushina to be "misleading"? I think that's ridiculous to waste ink and thought behind it only to say it was to be misleading. What a insult to the fans. Also I really like reading your blog!

Well let me tell you something about this. I said I’d do a more detailed post on this but I’ll say it now as well.

It's simple.

There's a reason for Kishimoto's contradictions and lies.

But without making it too long here, I'll say this... there's this thing called brand reputation management.

Let's admit it, from a marketing/branding standpoint, The Last had the biggest fuss around it.

Now, they kept marketing it in so many deceitful ways that when the movie hit and fans saw what it is about exactly and how it contradicts everything Naruto ever stood for, well... the reputation of the brand The Last & Naruto by conjunction suffered a fatal blow.

So of course, they had to manage that reputation. So they had Kishi state all those things at different times, depending on the reactions waves, because they dealt with differences in those reactions at different times like I was saying.

First we had from the beginning excuse... but then people started asking, okay, if it was from the beginning, why show NaruSaku, Sakura respectively moving on to Naruto?

So then we had it from the middle / Sakura would be a terrible woman for moving from Sasuke... 

And people were okay but if we had it from the middle why confirm Sakura = Kushina in the end?

So then we had NaruSaku = red herring and the last is a way of Naruto to part with Kushina and Sakura, respectively.

See what I mean?

It was pure brand reputation management at every step of the way.

Or better said for those who don’t get behind marketing terms = damage control.

That’s why he said that. Because Naruto as a brand, and Kishimoto more than anything suffered a really fatal blow.

Do you think it’s a coincidence that his manga Samurai 8 flopped? Do you think it’s a coincidence that Boruto in his best days can’t even get to 15% than what its original source material was?

The only saving grace Boruto has is the anime. But even that must be looked at in context and perspective.

What context and perspective? Well, it kept moving slots with the airing time because it wasn’t doing that excellent, and in the end they decided for it to run on saturday mornings when every kid is at home, enjoying their morning cereal while watching some TV.

And such, it has no real challenge. 

Now you might say I’m biased with this, but you can very well find that information out there on the internet.

The manga isnt doing that well despite being a monthly one and having all the time to do well in a month.

Like I said, in comparison take Jujutsu Kaisen. It hit the 10 million mark and it’s a WEEKLY one. 

Even so, Boruto should’ve had enough weight from Naruto to withstand the test. But then, it didn’t because Naruto and Kishimoto as a brand shot itself in the foot with that choice of ending.

It basically disrespected its audience to the goddamn core.

So this is what you get as a brand when you do that.

And I’m not speaking outta my arse. There are studies about brand management and reputation you can very well read on the internet.

Thank you for the ask and glad you enjoy my content! ^_^

[21tailsofwoe]

(This is all just really pointless rambling, so if anyone can make sense of this post, cheers.)

There's a really fine line between a certain plot point being the "writer's fault" and the "character's fault" and even though I don't exactly know where to draw the line, I think in some cases, it seems pretty distinguishable to me.

When a character has done something "wrong" and hasn't really learned from it and continues to do the wrong again and again, it's obviously the character's fault. It's the author's doing to write the character in such a way, and it's almost always done in order to make it a plot point/conflict. The character's doing in these cases always seems to be...intentional and these actions play a role later on in the story.

And when a character does something that's completely out of character for them in order to create a plot around that particular character's actions, it's pretty palpably the writer's fault. It's when the writer pulls nonsensical shit out of their ass just for the lolz. There's also the time when the writer conveniently disregards the character's entire development that took place previously in the story.

With Sakura (or more broadly, with every female character in this series ever) it's easy to put her at fault, her /character/ at fault. But, it's not that clear cut for me. Sakura had so much potential. This potential was so much evident at the start of part 2. She had not only grown physically stronger than her former self, but emotionally stronger as well. It's clearly implied she put her heart and soul into her training, but there's also this emotional maturity to her, something shown in her fight against Sasori where she displayed her selflessness countless number of times, or when Chiyo died and Sakura still managed to handle the situation with maturity. The Tenchi Bridge arc brought so much depth to her feelings, and how she thought of herself and her goals. It's absolutely beautiful to see her learn and struggle and grow. It sets up a path for her future, where you expect her to reach those goals, because dear God does she deserves that satisfaction after all the work she's put into herself.

But then, all of that just gets shafted aside. Why? Because she isn't some reincarnation of some godly being or some shit? Because she was just thrown in between this centuries old spiritual rivalry? Because if she could somehow contribute to "saving" Sasuke, it would take away some of Naruto's spotlight? Because Naruto and only Naruto is allowed to ever understand Sasuke and no one else? She gets so close to doing something to contribute to her goal, to reaching to her full potential as a character, but then it gets abruptly cut off and all her emotional development becomes irrelevant.

I 100% blame Kishimoto for all things wrong with Sakura. Sakura had potential, she /clearly/ displayed that potential. She was on her way to become an amazing character. But, that development was stagnated and then eventually just thrown aside because the writer just couldn't make up his fuckin mind.

And that's my entire take on Sakura as a character. In fact, that's what I feel towards all the female characters because their development is always cut short for the sake of one thing or the other (the thing almost always being the male characters). Their treatment in the series by the writer is something that makes it impossible for me to hate any of them, even though I know almost all of them have very flawed characterisations. Because I /know/ they had potential. I know they could've been so much better if the writer wasn't such a coward. In this case, I feel it's the writer's fault.

Anyway, I love my girls bye

[cherryscape]

Kishimoto said that he intended to do naruhina early on. If so, why do you think he keep showing naruto's love for Sakura? I particularly enjoy both pairings, but yeah.

To be honest? I don’t really know. The logical answer? Is that even though Kishi’s “Planned on Naruhina in the middle?” He gave Narusaku moments as a red herring.

Though I don’t like it. I don’t care If it’’s a red herring. He still should have focused more on the ships he wanted to make canon rather than the ones he knew wasn’t gonna happen. Like okay if he still wanted to include the red herring? That dosen’t mean he can add some NH moments as well.

The dude claim to be bad at writing romance,yet he was at writing a “red herring” He was good at writing a love story as beautiful as minakushi. He had no problems giving sasusaku some moments as well.

Yet he barely gave NH many moments!! Like 3 moments? aren’t enough. They had literally 45 chapters worth of interaction out of 700 chapters.

He said that he didn’t think much about how they end up together. Just that they did. Which is soo stupid!!!

It’s such a pathetic excuse!! I sympathize with narusaku fans cause a ship that had barely interaction and needed a movie to prove it’s standing was chosen over their moments and parallels and were given a stupid excuse for it.

Naruhina is a good ship. Their personalities work well together. And I do believe they make each other happy. But they should have more moments and the red herring? Should never happen.

Kishi seriously sucks.

[justicell]

This is most likely an unpopular opinion in the NaruSaku fandom but I don’t find the CPR scene a romantic moment because it seems impersonal to me, like Sakura would do this for everyone after all she is a medic ninja and would not let anyone die. 

On the chapter before this when Sakura cried parallel to Karin about how they are going to die, that showed how much Naruto meant to Sakura and that was the final time Kishimoto implied Sakura loves Naruto more then just a friend (because it is a fact that Karin Is in love with Sasuke and showing a parallel with Sakura and Naruto makes the reader believe the same is true for Sakura towards Naruto),  but the following chapter there is no indication of the tears she had in her eyes (might as well think that dust got in her eyes or something).

Kishimoto from chapter 663 and onward erased any signs of romantic feelings from Sakura toward Naruto he made it seem like it’s all professional or platonic and had her talk about his dream to be Hokage (which we already knew she supported him in part 1 but that doesn’t make her in love with Naruto as we all know she loved Sasuke back then). It feels like Kishimoto has given a step forward in chapter 662 (the true end) and in 663 it’s two steps back eventually becoming 100 steps back as it continued in this trajectory and eventually retconed and removed completely from the story to make room for SS and NH. 

Because of this I consider canon over at 662 for me. I think the CPR scene can be made so much better or completely changed to something else. for example it could of been something like this:

Expectation:

Reality:

I would like to know if I’m the only one that feels this way?

[orenjisakuranbo]

This is how Kishimoto created Sarada.

[radicallledward]

Stop humiliating people for hating Naruto ending because of ships

Criticizing Kishimoto for bad ships is as viable and necessary, as criticizing him for unresolved social and political issues, inconsistencies, dropped symbolism, etc.

Romantic subplots are as important as any other subplots in the manga. If the author chooses to introduce romance-related drama like crushes and love-triangles, he is responsible to handle it well. Once introduced, romantic subplots become part of different character arcs, they absorb main ideas of the story and become an integral part of the narrative. If these subplots are neglected, dropped or poorly written, it reflects badly on all layers of the story and characters. 

Genre of the manga only decides the style in which romance is portrayed. “Battle” genre doesn’t justify bad execution: good authors are capable of writing believable and well-founded romance without dwelling on it too much. It is possible mainly because good romantic relationships evolve from meaningful bonds. Show me a shounen author who is “above” writing about bonds. 

Different people pay attention to different aspects and characters of the story. It is natural, because we all have different preferences and our attention span is limited. For example, I was more of a Naruto fan than Sasuke’s, I payed much more attention to Naruto. When manga ended, I wasn’t fully aware of how much it screwed Sasuke over, but I mourned what Uzumaki Naruto has become. Just like that it is natural for some people to pay more attention to romantic subplots than political issues of the manga. It doesn’t make them lesser by default. People in otaku-community like to disregard shippers as delusional, but that is simply wrong. There are a lot of clever rational people who enjoy romance. When romantic subplots are ruined (and drag characters in the mud), these people will point out atrocities related to romance execution first and foremost. And it is both perfectly fine and important.

Disregarding criticism just because it concerns romance in battle-shounen manga is WRONG.  Both anti and pro people should understand this. A lot of antis feel insecure about criticizing ships: once they start debating, they try to deny that they have shipping preferences or stress other problems with the ending as if those are more important. They aren’t. If pros are trying to disregard your arguments by saying “you’re just salty..”, it shouldn’t be your problem. You shouldn’t feel pressured into dropping criticism about poorly written romance. 

“80% of anti blogs are bashing canon couples, not political issues of the manga”. Honestly, if this is true, it tells you more about the nature of Naruto fandom than about quality of critique. It tells you that by the end a lot of people supported Naruto because they were interested in romantic subplots, which is perfectly fine. (The fact that final movies, series, novels and chapters were dedicated to couples and offsprings, is quite telling.) If the author didn’t want it to be that way, he should have done a better job writing conflicts and villains. Anyway, my point is that a lot of fans payed way more attention to romantic subplots than other aspects of the story, and after those subplots were ruined/retconed/forced, their critique focused on that. 

Canon ships weren’t developed enough to justify their canonization. As they had to be forced into reality, they broke character arcs of those involved. Character’s pasts, motivations, personality traits and goals were dropped, mutilated or retconed. While it didn’t only happen due to ships, since ending material empathized couples/families, it solidified focus on badly executed romances. 

Just like that lets criticize those canon couples with our head held high.