[Astarion] is a cat. He's a black cat. There's a stray that comes into my house called Red... and he's quite feral. It took me three years before I could pick him up and hold him. He's totally cool with me now. Three fucking years. He gave me a lot of inspiration about Astarion.
- Neil Newbon, on developing Astarion's physicality and mannerisms
I am never prepared for how sweet and insightful Astarion can be when you let him be the strong one. He is good at being strong and showing valor in situations when Durge is afraid or vulnerable. In this scene, when Durge chooses to open up to Astarion about their fears, he answers graciously, using himself as an example to forge a connection, and to build trust. He is unafraid of facing and admitting his own weaknesses and vulnerabilities as a way of showing Durge that it's okay, that one can overcome who they thought they had to be in their darkest hours. That is something the dark urge romance is showing me, specifically
Ravenloft is a gothic horror setting in Dungeons & Dragons centered around the vampire Strahd von Zarovich and set in the land of Barovia. The setting takes its name from Castle Ravenloft, Strahd's castle overlooking the valley.
All of this exists within the Plane of Shadow, also known as the Shadowfell, created by the goddess Shar.
The Shadowfell contains its own demiplanes.
Barovia is one such demiplane - a Domain of Dread, created by the Dark Powers.
People from Faerûn can be drawn into this place if the Mists will it.
The first mention of Barovia in BG3 is right in the character editor.
Piercing Style: Barovia Fangs
This article covers every reference to the Ravenloft setting in Baldur's Gate 3 that I could find.
Contents:
● The Way to Barovia
● Who Has Been to Barovia?
● References in Baldur's Gate 3
- Character Dialogue
- Books
- Vistani · Gur people
- Weapons
The second part examines a likely Ravenloft Easter egg. Identifying it requires comparing the transformation of a mortal into a vampire in Forgotten Realms lore, Baldur's Gate 3, and Ravenloft.
This will be a detailed analysis, including an overview of how vampire lore has evolved throughout the history of Dungeons & Dragons.
The Way to Barovia
The Mists - and the few who know their hidden paths - are what connect the Forgotten Realms to Barovia. This passage can appear anywhere.
Once, the Mists revealed a way to Barovia near the Misty Forest, close to Daggerford.
Werewolves began appearing in the surrounding villages, leaving destruction in their wake.
This serves as one of the official adventure hooks in Curse of Strahd, released on March 15, 2016.
Following the werewolves' trail, the characters enter the Misty Forest, where the Mists envelop them and carry them into Barovia.
This location lies approximately 420 km (260 miles) from Baldur’s Gate.
For comparison, the distance from London to Edinburgh is about 530 km. A closer equivalent would be the distance from central London to Dublin - around 460 km.
Who Has Been to Barovia?
Once, some of the heroes we meet in BG3 have visited Barovia
The Heroes of Baldur's Gate - adventuring company, including Minsc, were trapped in the Demiplane of Dread.
Their adventure is told in Shadows of the Vampire a series of Dungeons & Dragons comic book.
MINSC AND BOO ARE BACK and things have never looked more dire, as mysterious forces draw the legendary ranger and his crew of adventurers to RAVENLOFT, the Realm of Terror… where they find themselves face to face with undead horrors in the land of eternal night!
Released: May 2016 - October 2016
Travel Talk: Ravenloft
A visit to Barovia by Volothamp Geddarm (as told to, and set down by, long-suffering scribe Ed Greenwood).
Elminster Aumar is also mentioned, having prepared Volo for the journeyand gave him a way back to Faerûn.
Dragon+ issue 6
Released: February 18, 2016
Review of Contents
Dragon+ - an official digital magazine featuring lore, interviews, and short articles. Was published from 2015 to 2022
References in Baldur's Gate 3
Astarion mentions Strahd von Zarovich
As far as we know, Astarion never visited Barovia, yet he certainly knows of Strahd von Zarovich.
He casually drops Strahd's name if the player clicks on his portrait too many times. Strahd would hardly tolerate such incessant poking, so be grateful for Astarion's patience.
The second mention of Strahd was probably in the book:
"The True and Impossible Adventures of Tenebrux Morrow, Vol. 3"
The adventures of Tenebrux Morrow, who visited Barovia and met a man, who appeared as a shadow, whose teeth did not prevent him from being an excellent storyteller.
The Vistani are the ones who know the paths leading to Barovia best.
The Gur people are considered the Faerûnian equivalent of the Vistani.
DDAL4-01 Suits of the Mists (5e)
The Darklord D&D Adventurers League by Greg Marks, July 5 2016
There was some information like that in an earlier adventure:
DDAL04-04 The Marionette (5e)
The Marionette D&D Adventurers League by Robert Alaniz, April 5 2016
The Gur may consider themselves distinct from the Vistani.
But in the adventure "The Darklord", they are referred to as equivalents, and Sybil is already called Vistani.
There are differences between them. But apparently, they aren't that significant for the canon, considering that she's called by both names.
The Vistani have an innate, supernatural connection to the Mists. This manifests as their ability to travel freely between domains, as well as their affinity for prophecy and curse-based magic.
The Gur, as a people of Faerûn, do not share this innate bond. Their mystical practices are cultural in nature, and the presence of magical ability depends entirely on the individual.
Sibyl possessed second sight, which became significantly stronger after she entered Barovia. Canonically, it is not definitively known whether this is connected to her being Gur.
She also has a tougher time finding her path through the mist.
Once, the Vistani were spotted near Daggerford, located close to the Misty Forest.
Curse Of Strahd, p. 19
Released: March 15, 2016
Mentions of Vistani in BG3
"A Modest Guide to Sword Coast Wine"
A sommelier's guide to wines found along the Sword Coast. It extols the virtues of Berduskan Dark and Arabellan Dry, the sinuous fruity flavours of ruby-red Elverquisst, the throat-slamming notes of Red Dragon Crush snatched from the hands of charming Vistani tradesfolk, Thayan vintages as richly hued as the robes of their Red Wizards, pale Saerloonian Glowfire, and it praises these with the same vigour that it declaims the inferior mulled wines such as Zzar and Daggerford Clarry, which the author claims are as suitably for consumption as 'bugbear taint.'
Red Dragon Crush is a wine from Barovia.
The wine was rated as superior and mentioned several times as a fine wine.
Curse Of Strahd p. 173
Notes on the Gur people in BG3
"The Approachable East, Vol. 3" and "Chronicles of the Gur People"
Ravenloft is referenced through weapons
Hellrider Longbow
This longbow was forged from the remnants of Stanislav the Silver's shield, found near the wreckage of Castle Ravenloft some years ago.
The Impaler
The Spear wasn't in the final release. It can only be added via a mod or Script Extender.
This impaling pole of enchanted steel was commissioned as part of a set by Strahd von Zarovich, who presented the weapons to his honour guard one cold morning.
A reference to vampire rituals
The player character's unique in-game vampiric transformation, rather than the standard creation of a vampire spawn, prompted a search for deeper vampire lore in D&D.
The most intriguing reference is the popular explanation of this transformation known as the Bride Theory.
The Astarion fandom recognized these parallels long ago. Here is one of the earliest shorts, posted in October 2023, if you'd like to take a quick look.
Identifying this reference requires a closer look at where the story deviates from DnD5 lore and where it instead mirrors older vampire lore.
Unlike the references above, this is not a direct mention of a name or place, but a difference in how events unfold, requiring a more detailed analysis.
I'll refer to the player character as PC and Tav, this also applies to Dark Urge.
The total length of the article, including numerous citations, is 35 pages. And that's the biggest part. This is a huge collection of vampire lore. You have been warned.
This theory rests on two main pillars.
First, the character's transformation differs markedly from both D&D 5e Forgotten Realms lore and the internal canon of BG3 - the lore of Vampires in Toril.
This will be analyzed in Part 1.
This part includes a section on Astarion, whose behavior and dialogue provide information about player's character vampirism.
Second, it shares notable similarities with the process of creating a vampire bride or groom in older FR and Ravenloft lore - the lore of vampires linked to Domain of Dread.
This will be analyzed in Part 2.
Part 1.
Forgotten Realms DnD5 and BG3: Turning a Mortal into a Vampire
The vampire is one of the earliest monsters in D&D. Its first mention dates back to 1974 in the Dungeons & Dragons "White Box" set.
The first in-depth vampire rules, including the process of transformation, debuted in the Monster Manual (1977, 1st edition, p. 99)
Any human or humanoid drained of all life energy by a vampire becomes on appropriately sirengthed vampire under control of its slayer. This transformation lakes place I day after the creature is buried, but if and only if the creature is buried.
Like the vampires themselves, the part about burial is a classic step in the transformation into a vampire, taken from real-world folklore.
The process of turning a mortal into a vampire spawn, and a spawn into a true vampire, is described in the D&D 5th Edition rules upon which Baldur's Gate 3 was built.
The official D&D Beyond article "Playing As a Vampire in D&D" describes this in great detail.
Monster Manual 5e, 2014
Sep 30, 2014
Vampires p. 295-298
Strahd von Zarovich and his backstory are referenced in the MM.
Monster Manual 5.5e
18 Feb, 2025
Vampires p.314-318
In this MM there is a quote from Astarion.
Several core elements of the transformation process remain consistent across the various editions.
Each step will be examined separately and compared with Baldur's Gate 3:
The vampire kills the mortal.
The body is buried in a grave or beneath the earth.
The newly created vampire spawn awakens at the following sunset.
The vampire spawn is completely under the control of its creator.
The creator's blood transforms the spawn into a true vampire.
Burying underground and remain in the grave until the following sunset
How buried do you have to be? Six feet deep? What about one foot deep? Does mud count? Do you need a coffin?
TL;DR, the next step to vamping out is getting buried under at least one foot of soil and left to marinate for 24 hours.
DnD Beyond article
This step has been consistently described in every new edition of the MM.
Astarion describes his own transformation into a vampire few times, mentioning being buried.
We'll find out where his grave is and go take a look, and then we have other important things to do with Astarion.
Astarion: Nearly two hundred years and I never came back. Not since the night I woke up down there.
Astarion: I had to punch a hole in the coffin and claw my way through six feet of dirt.
\CAMP_Astarion_SD_ROM_BlackMassAftermath
Romance scene Ascended Astarion
The Beginning of Tav's Transformation
Scene occurs entirely indoors. It concludes with Astarion drinking from Tav, followed by a fade to black. The next shot shows Tav waking up in camp during daylight.
Tav’s transformation began at night, but the game does not specify the exact time they woke up.
There is no mention of burial at all.
Tav never comments on having been buried.
The burial is absent.
The character does not rise from a grave or from the ground.
Under standard D&D rules, this step is required for a creature to become a vampire spawn.
What can be done about this inconsistency with the rules?
Here are three possible approaches:
1 - Future canon clarification - It will be stated that the burial did occur off-screen. In this version, Astarion dug them up shortly before they woke up. Tav has no memory of the burial process itself (or doesn't really care). Astarion carefully removed any traces of dirt, wiped Tav down with a damp cloth if needed, and placed them in a clean bed.
The time of their awakening will also be clarified as sunset.
2 - Rewrite the scene - Tav remembers the entire process and can comment on it. The time will also be specified.
3 - Official explanation - It will be confirmed and explained why burial was not necessary for Tav’s specific transformation.
The exact time of their rising will also be treated as unimportant.
Transformation of body and mind - Dark Desires
The vampire completely takes the person’s life - both their body and their mind. Upon awakening as undead, the victim’s body and consciousness are transformed, along with their entire perception of the world.
A vampire’s consciousness is reborn with new Dark Desires. These Dark Desires are common to all vampires, as they are an inherent part of the vampiric curse.
The fact that vampirism may affect vampire spawn to a lesser degree is not specified in the lore.
This is described in the general "Vampires" chapter of the 5E Monster Manual, which covers the traits of both vampire spawn and true vampires together.
Dark Desires are not exclusive to true vampires.
Looking at past lore, vampire spawn have always embodied these Dark Desires - they are arrogant, power-hungry, and corrupt. Their evil alignment is intrinsic, unlike drow, whose alignment now depends entirely on the individual.
Evil is the very nature of anyone with vampirism.
Only Slight Pain Mentioned - Pleasure is Emphasized
The process of becoming a vampire is inherently painful, as it involves the vampire depriving the victim of their life force or draining their blood, and killing them with a fatal bite.
In BG3, Astarion describes his own as painful.
The player learns this if they talk to him about accepting an astral tadpole.
Astarion: I remember how it hurt when I turned to a vampire. My body writhed and warped while I was utterly helpless, the grip of death owned my heart as it beat its last.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_PartialCeremorph
The wording and context of the conversation make it clear that Astarion is referring to the transformation process itself. While being bitten and killed by Cazador was undoubtedly agonizing, the line - "My body writhed and warped" directly refers to the changes of becoming a vampire, not just the act of being murdered.
Astarion remembers the event clearly, and it was very painful.
In contrast, Astarion describes Tav’s transformation as a mix of pleasure and delirium. He states that it begins with a bit of pain, it is soon overtaken by pleasure far greater than the pain.
Astarion: Tonight, I shall drink every drop of your blood.
Own your body, kill your mind. It will only hurt a bit, the pleasure will be far greater than the pain.
\CAMP_Astarion_SD_ROM_BlackMassAftermath
Player: What exactly happened?
Astarion: You were drained dry, and at the height of your delirium, I granted you one drop of my own blood.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_BlackMassFollowUp
Astarion is in a particularly florid mood here, choosing an unusually elaborate word.
Delirium can be used as a medical term describing a specific state of acute confusion. The term was introduced into medical literature by the 1st-century Roman encyclopedist and today refers to an altered mental state associated with trauma, intoxication, withdrawal, or neurocognitive disorders.
Outside of its medical meaning, the word takes on more free meanings.
Delirium
Dictionaries define it as violent excitement, a state of wildly excited activity or emotion, a state of extreme excitement or happiness
"… he would stride about his room in a delirium of joy". - Thomas Wolfe
“The thrill, the mad delirium of being free is beyond description.”
In the case of Astarion, the general definition applies
Astarion previously described the process as a great pleasure.
Among the synonyms of delirium in its ordinary sense are passion, ecstasy, and euphoria.
Looking at Tav’s question, it can be assumed that they do not remember the pleasure - or the pain.
If the pain had been intense and clearly remembered, the question would likely not have carried such an uncertain tone.
The way the question is phrased also suggests that Tav doesn’t remember the event very well, which is why Astarion decides to describe the process.
However, Tav may remember, but they still want to know exact details of what happened while still retaining their memory of the event.
Astarion’s response appears to confirm that what he describes matches what Tav experienced, leaving no further questions.
This aspect of the pain and pleasure of the turning is not fully explored in D&D.
D&D rules do not specify whether the mortal experiences pain during the act of becoming a vampire spawn itself. Or while the person lies in the grave.
What is mentioned is the pain and agony of hunger that the newly risen immortal feels upon awakening.
While older vampire lore may provide some answers, D&D 5.5 has not explored these aspects in depth. In contrast to the clearly defined part of the burial.
The fact: in lore is no mention at all of pleasure in the ordinary process of transformation.
These unique aspects of Tav’s transformation are immediately noticeable. It is worth remembering, as these points will serve as an addition to a broader topic, further confirming how unusual the events in question are.
The more noteworthy element is blood, which holds huge significance for vampires - especially the blood of a creator in relation to their creation.
🩸Blood and True vampirism
The rule allowing a vampire spawn to become a true vampire by drinking its creator's blood was first introduced in the 2014 Monster Manual (5e).
If a true vampire allows a spawn to draw blood from its own body, the spawn transforms into a true vampire no longer under its master's control. Few vampires are willing to relinquish their control in this manner.
True vampires do not give their blood to vampire spawn. Astarion mentions this in Act 1.
Player: How does someone become a vampire, exactly?
Astarion: It's simple. Just find a vampire that will drink your blood and turn you into a vampire spawn: their obedient puppet.
Astarion: In theory, the next step is to drink their blood. Once you've done that, you're free and a true vampire.
.
Player: So they bite you, you bite them?
Astarion: Yes and no. The problem is once you're a vampire spawn, they completely control you. They have to allow you to bite them.
Astarion: And why would they do that? Vampires are power-hungry creatures. They won't lose a servant to create a competitor.
Astarion: Trust me. It doesn't happen.
.
Player: You'd have to drink Cazador's blood to be free?
Astarion: Free and a true vampire, capable of creating my own coven? Yes.
Astarion: Although I'd settle for just killing the bastard. I wouldn't be a 'true' vampire, but I'd be free of him.
\Astarion_InParty2
Notice the way he emphasizes it and clarification:
Will you be free? -> Free and a true vampire with his own coven.
The problem is that true vampires control their vampire spawn. Astarion was unable not only to harm Cazador, but also to drink the blood of thinking creatures. Only if Cazador had allowed it could Astarion have drunk his blood and become a true vampire.
With the tadpole, however, the master's control over his vampire spawn was broken - an unprecedented situation for vampires.
Astarion can now drink the blood of thinking creatures. He can harm Cazador. He can drink Cazador's blood.
He no longer needs his master's permission.
Drink Cazador's blood → Become free and a true vampire.
What happens when Tav is turned into a vampire?
🩸Astarion gives a drop of his blood
The developers use italics for emphasis - one drop. Italics serve multiple purposes: emotional focus, highlighting key words, drawing attention to narrative emphasis, and signaling elements the player is meant to notice.
In the PC's line, the word "happened" is also italicized. So there are two words in italics: happened → one drop
In Patch 8, when the line "my own blood" is spoken, the camera zooms in for a close-up of the face, which also emphasizes the moment.
Player: What exactly happened?
Astarion: You were drained dry, and at the height of your delirium, I granted you one drop of my own blood.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_BlackMassFollowUp
Why did Astarion give Tav a drop of his own blood? It isn’t necessary to create a vampire spawn.
The following line offers explanation - that this was a way to pass on Mephistopheles’ blessing.
Astarion: Things will be a touch different for you than they were for me when I was a spawn.
Astarion: I'm imbibed with unfathomable new talents. I am fairly certain I can extend Mephistopheles' blessings unto you.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_BlackMassFollowUp
The effect of the blood on the character is unambiguous: there is no sun burning after the tadpole is removed.
Tav still eats normal food, does not recall sanguine hunger, and reflects in mirrors - things that Astarion, as a vampire spawn, still experiences despite the tadpole.
Among the manifestations of vampirism, the character gains a vampire bite. Companions note changes in appearance. Certain hazards that do not affect undead creatures have no effect on the Tav.
Another point regarding blood:
Player: Will you still drink my blood?
Astarion: Of course I will, and you'll drink mine. I can't wait to taste your lips after you've tasted me.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_PartneredWithAstarion
Astarion casually says that they will drink each other’s blood.
There is an interpretation/homebrew reading of this rule.
A vampire spawn may drink the blood of the creator vampire while remaining a spawn. In this case, the vampire allows the vampire spawn to drink their blood, while their will prevents the vampire spawn from turning into a true vampire. This becomes an act of feeding and enjoyment.
There is no confirmation of this interpretation in canon.
There is no information that vampire spawn can drink offered blood from their creator while remaining spawn, either during the transformation or afterward.
In lore, drinking the vampire creator’s blood by their creation is possible in limited cases.
First, in the Forgotten Realms DnD5e, is the transformation of a vampire spawn into a true vampire.
The amount of blood is not specified.
This is the only new confirmed lore DnD5 at the moment.
The Rule of Blood is explained in greater detail in this article.
Vampires have different reasons for refusing to grant true vampirism.
Likewise, lore offers various reasons for sharing their blood: as a reward or out of remembrance of a loved one from mortal life.
They are individuals with their own distinct personalities.
As the older lore put it, what is acceptable to one vampire may be completely unacceptable to another. That perspective remains true in D&D 5e as well.
All vampires begin their journey under the control of the vampire who sired them. However, if a vampire lets their progeny drink blood from their own body, their spawn will be given free will. Very few vampires choose to give up control of their spawn like this, and for good reason. Most vampires are control freaks, and see their spawn as mere extensions of their will. But other, more ethical vampires may exert this control to reign in their fledgling spawn’s blood lust, choosing to free their spawn once they understand the subtle and dangerous line they must walk between the living and the dead.
Note the wording here is very specific; the true vampire must allow their spawn to draw and drink their blood in order to relinquish their control over them in that manner.
The only other way a vampire spawn can achieve free will is if their master dies. So if you’re playing a vampire spawn, and you want out from under the thumb of your master, you need to either find a way to kill them (good luck, considering they have total control over you) or somehow convince them to give up their control over you. This is no easy feat.
If you are playing a vampire that has agency, you and/or your DM should have a clear reason as to why you were granted such a gift by your creator. Maybe you reminded them of a loved one from their mortal life, or perhaps you carried out a deed for them and were granted this as a reward.
By agreeing to give their blood, the vampire is already agreeing to the transformation, blood is the key to becoming a true vampire.
To do that, he would have needed permission to approach and take the key. Astarion, with the tadpole, doesn't need that permission.
This is why he talks about becoming a true vampire in Act 1.
Later, his focus shifts.
There's also no mention that anything went wrong with true vampirism. Unfortunately, the topic is never brought up again.
Moreover, Astarion never talks about becoming human again at all.
It's a pity that the subject of true vampirism is never explored further game content.
It is possible that the true vampirism in Astarion's story will be explored in greater detail in future canon - whether in prequels, sequels, or other supplementary content.
If any future material provides information significant enough to warrant inclusion, a link to it will be added here.
Additionally, Ed Greenwood shared information about blood and how one can become a true vampire during one of his BG3 streams - 1:37:02
A vampire spawn can become a true vampire if their master dies. It is a difficult task that requires magic and luck, but it is possible.
They can only turn into true vampires if their master allows them to drink their blood - normally.
There are many other ways they can become a true vampire, particularly if the master dies. They'll have to use those other ways, but they're not easy. They have to go do stuff and find people and get magic. It's not easy.
This would be the kind of adventure that would be interesting to see with Astarion if he never became an ascended vampire.
To sum up:
Under the rules, only and specifically blood is already stated as the trigger for transformation.
Permission to drink the blood - not permission to become a true vampire.
And the blood that a vampire spawn normally cannot obtain without permission.
If the vampire-creator’s intent regarding the outcome of blood drinking were required for turning a vampire spawn into a true vampire, it would have been explicitly stated in the rules as an important part of the lore.
With this clarification, the focus of the rule shifted from blood to intent regarding the outcome - so without intent, blood means nothing to true vampirism.
At present, no such clarification exists.
Even the smallest drop - from the little finger, taken with the finest needle in Baldur’s Gate, given by the creator to their vampire spawn - would turn them into a true vampire.
Astarion allows the player character to drink his blood.
According to these rules, the player character is a true vampire
As you can see, blood is quite a topic when it comes to vampires. The developers of Baldur’s Gate 3 further emphasize this.
So what is happening in the canon of Baldur’s Gate 3?
If this transformation was Larian’s homebrew, it should have been explained more clearly - through notes or in a conversation with Gale.
Since Astarion is now an official D&D Forgotten Realms character, the unusual way he turns Tav could be addressed in future canon. It may be explained, reworked, or expanded to better fit established D&D rules.
In the game Tav is repeatedly called vampire spawn by Astarion and other characters.
Astarion’s behavior in certain situations can serve as indirect hints about the true nature of Tav’s vampirism.
This section is intended to illustrate how strongly motivated Astarion may be to withhold true vampirism from Tav and to keep certain aspects of it hidden from them.
Astarion is a character who frequently lies and manipulates, his reactions and behavior can vary significantly depending on the circumstances. Tav’s own responses, questions, and the overall context of the conversation also have considerable variability.
This section is quite variable-dependent and contains many branching details, which does not perfectly align with the style of an article focused on core lore comparisons and references. Therefore, only the main conclusions will be presented here.
● Astarion refers to Tav’s transformation as becoming his vampire spawn.
● Astarion views Tav’s vampirism primarily as a way for them to be together forever. Tav was his forever, and with him, together.
Astarion: That's what you want, isn't it? To be mine? Forever?
.
Astarion: We could be together for eternity, ruling this world side by side. We could have it all.
.
Player: What if I don't want forever?
Astarion: What's not to want? We could be together for all time.
Player: I don't want this after all.
Astarion: It seems I misjudged you. I thought we might have a future together - even an eternity - but perhaps you're not worthy.
Astarion: So. What's it to be, darling? Is this it?
Player: I hope we can work things out and stay together.
Astarion: Of course we can. You're the one that I want - the one that I love.
Astarion: And you could be so much more, if you want it. One little bite and you could be mine forever.
\CAMP_Astarion_SD_ROM_BlackMassAftermath
Astarion: Aeterna amantes. Lovers forever, until the world falls down.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_PartneredWithAstarion
Astarion: You can't want to go already. Enjoy tonight, celebrate with our sweet friends.
Astarion: And when you're done, we can get back to enjoying forever together.
\EPI_Epilogue_Astarion_Lord
Astarion: Then we'll do it tonight. And come the morning, we will be together forever.
\END_GameFinale_ROM_RomanceFates_Astarion
● Astarion consistently states that becoming a true vampire will only happen with time.
Player: Spawn? I want to be a true vampire.
Astarion: And you will! All in good time.
Astarion: But we mustn't rush these things. You may need time to adjust.
\CAMP_Astarion_SD_ROM_BlackMassAftermath
When the transformation scene is skipped, the final devnote indicates that Astarion has no plans to turn Tav into a true vampire in the near future.
Player: I want to live forever. Make me a vampire.
Astarion: My sweet, I thought you'd never ask.
Astarion: Of course, you will be a spawn before you can become a true vampire, but that's a small detail.
Player: And you promise you'll make me a full vampire soon?
Astarion: My darling, of course! I want nothing more. devnote [NodeContext: overly sincere - he doesn't really mean it]
\END_GameFinale_ROM_RomanceFates_Astarion
● In-game tags
ORI_Astarion_Event_TurnIntoSpawn
The tag first appears during the transformation scene, right before the screen fades to black, on the narrator’s line:
"As he drinks more and more, you feel yourself fading from consciousness. When you wake again, you will be his forever more".
The tag later appears in the following situations:
During Karlach's conversation, when she bluntly suggests that Astarion might need to be killed. The tag is attached to a line where the player character responds protectively toward Astarion.
In the ending, where Astarion describes himself and his lover as the most powerful people in the world.
If the turning scene was skipped and the PC chooses to become a vampire in the ending.
Astarion_InParty_Asked_BecameConsort
Its description also states that the PC has become a vampire spawn
● Astarion's vampiric control over Tav is never shown in the game.
Only his emotional influence and persuasion.
Even if Tav chooses to become an illithid, Astarion never attempts to control them. Astarion strongly asks them listen to him and abandon this decision. I have a separate analysis for this part, including his body language.
Cazador actively attempts to control Astarion despite the tadpole in his head. He stops Astarion's raised fist, reminding him that he is his creator. While there are reasons to believe this could simply be magic, the context of the conversation strongly suggests that it is vampiric control.
● Devnote in Karlach Origin during the transformation scene:
Player: Be careful, Astarion. My engine is running so hot. I won't be able to control it.
Astarion: Hush love, it's all right. You don't have to worry.
Astarion: Forget about your engine. Forget about control. I'll take care of everything. devnote [NodeContext: trying to reassure Karlach, while thinking of how he's going to have control of her soon]
This line appears only in Karlach's Origin.
When the transformation fails, it reminds Astarion that he is still powerless in this regard, even now. The failure triggers his anger in a way that close to his reaction to Karlach in Act 1, when he didn't know what to do with her and lashed out by blaming her instead.
If the this scene is skipped, Astarion goes to Avernus with Karlach in the ending to help her repair her engine.
This route also has its own unique epilogue while their romance remains intact.
This ending path is fairly difficult to access, I believe.
It was planned for Karlach's Origin from Realese and was fully implemented in Patch 5.
Astarion: And? Enjoying our little break from the Hells?
Player: Somewhat, but I'm itching to get back.
Astarion: An understandable urge. This place is dull by comparison, but...
Astarion: I admit, I do miss the luxuries of this plane. What I wouldn't give for a silk bed...
Astarion: But don't fear, we'll have that engine of yours fixed before you know it. And then we can return in all our glory.
\EPI_Epilogue_Astarion_Lord
The next point directly undermines the interpretation that Astarion performs the transformation in order to gain control over Karlach\Tav.
No one who is obsessed with controlling someone would actively help them obtain the most powerful weapon imaginable - and then celebrate when they succeed.
No one, and not Astarian either.
Given this, "have control of her" here likely leans closer to "I'll finally be able to hold her, touch her, without fear", help relieve the affliction she herself can't control - control in the sense of physically handling her body, not control in the sense of power over her decisions or personhood.
● Vampiric control over Tav is not what Astarion is interested in
Any supposed desire for vampiric control over Tav would become irrelevant the moment Tav takes the power of the Absolute for themselves - something Astarion actively encourages.
He is confident that they are on the same side and that they will remain together. Control over Tav is not the primary cause why Astarion delays, or has no intention of granting Tav true vampirism.
Astarion brings up control of the Absolute during discussions about Tav's vampirism because that is what he envisions for their future. It reflects his intentions for the life he plans to share with Tav, one in which controlling them holds no significance for him.
Player: The tadpole complicates things.
Astarion: Exactly what symptoms of vampirism are going to manifest in you... well, we'll have to see what hand the tadpole has in suppressing them, when we wrangle it under our command.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_BlackMassFollowUp
This has been present since release. The Absolute ending was later expanded, and the script describing Lord Astarion's thoughts can also be found here.
"VOContext" [Vampire Lord Astarion]
"logicalname" "ASTARION EVIL ROMANCE"
[Vampire Lord Astarion] The avatar just kissed you. You're marvelling at the big, evil future you two have ahead of you.
● Hierarchy
Another possible motivation is Astarion's desire to keep Tav/Durge as a vampire spawn in order to remain above them in the hierarchy.
Astarion clearly enjoys being the one in charge, and the Ascended ending makes that aspect of his personality especially apparent.
At the same time, the player's possession of the Absolute's power blurs any traditional vampire hierarchy to a significant degree. Not that Astarion seems particularly concerned about that.
● A breakup is a painful for Astarion in every ending
Spawn Astarion, who has been waiting for confirmation of the relationship, breaks down, devaluing his path of redemption as a sacrifice made for Tav.
If seven thousand vampire spawns are free, he threatens Tav with their hungry mouths if Tav decides to approach him.
If the relationship is confirmed, Astarion admits that he does not want to let go of the love he has found. Tthis is clearly shown in another ending where he has the option to do so.
For Spawn Astarion, the ending's breakup branch is ignored despite the romance and the important graveyard scene with Tav.
Astarion in the Ascension path has already received consent for an eternal future together. There is no uncertainty for him about what they are to each other or their shared future, he thinks only about how they will spend their time.
If Tav, now a vampire, attempts to break up with him, they remain with Astarion. When that future falls apart, Astarion reacts with rage, clinging to Tav.
In a continuation of the branch where Tav wants to breakup, Astarion sulks in the epilogue.
Astarion's desire to avoid losing someone is understandable, as is his emotional breakdown. He only truly displays it during the breakup and in the ending, after Tav/Du has already agreed to spend eternity with him.
His breakdown in both endings has understandable motivations, but at the same time it reveals some of his most selfish and dangerous traits as a vampire.
In a playthrough where the goal of Tav not to breakup, but to remain together, the dynamic becomes much more beneficial for their vampire pair.
This applies to Tav's decision to break up in both endings. If it happens after the final romance scenes, it essentially breaks the narrative and becomes an "What if…?" scenario. Even so, Astarion's reaction is hardly surprising.
The central narrative of Astarion's romance, as written in its concluding scene, is consent and mutual vampire love.
The breakup, along with Astarion's perception of Tav's vampirism as a "forever together" bond and the painful way he reacts to its rejection, is the only truly significant point that can be used to infer what kind of vampirism Tav has.
There are several branches in which Tav - mortal or vampire - can still leave Astarion:
Breaking up before the ending at any point remains a breakup.
PC can leave for Avernus to help Karlach.
PC can join the githyanki war.
Player: I'm sorry I kind of disappeared. I didn't mean to leave you like that.
Astarion: Oh my dear, you didn't leave me - I let you go.
Astarion: If I'd wanted you to stay I only had to say the word and you would have been back by my side. But I'm not some controlling monster.
Astarion: I wanted to give you space to see what else is out there, make your own mistakes, and return to me ready to fully appreciate our life together.
Astarion: Anyway, I have had more than enough to keep me busy while you were off gallivanting in another plane.
\EPI_Epilogue_Astarion_Lord
Astarion does not show the same painful reaction in these branches.
In other words, Tav can still leave.
This changes only in the ending-breakup branch.
There are several reasons for this.
1. Astarion's character
Exercising control over Tav is the last thing Astarion wants.
His active encouragement for Tav to claim the Absolute's power, along with many other moments, demonstrates this.
Essentially giving up whatever influence he has over them.
He places complete trust in Tav, believing they will walk this path together.
For Astarion, this represents enormous character growth. For years, he trusted no one. "Trust no one" is a general Astarion line in the game.
His wound around trust is immense. Yet he entrusts Tav with unimaginable power and chooses to stand beside them.
Astarion wants Tav to choose him and come to him of their own free will. Tav already did so on the night of the turning, when they agreed to be together forever.
Astarion speaks of granting Tav true vampirism as something that will happen in the future. Likely once he is convinced that Tav genuinely intends to share eternity with him.
One possible reason for this decision is that they still know very little about each other. By that point, they have probably only been together for around three months.
I don't think we know Astarion, his personality. This is especially true now that he has gone from a life defined by constant limitations to one of complete freedom.
We have never really seen what Astarion is like without restrictions and vulnerabilities. The closest glimpse we have of that is his life as a magistrate - and o, my.
Astarion said that he expected Tav to leave him rather than burden themselves with his problems. He believed he had nothing to offer them.
Player: Whatever is between us, we need to end it.
Astarion: I - I can hardly blame you. I don't exactly have much to offer right now, beyond new burdens to carry.
Player: You aren't really ready to have a partner.
Astarion: Would I were. It's true, you don't deserve this facade any longer.
Player: This just isn't what I wanted, when we first slept together.
Astarion: I was beginning to believe someone truly wanted me. But I shouldn't have deluded myself.
Astarion: From the start, I was rather counting the hours until it was going to end. Midnight chimes, eh?
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_PartneredWithAstarion
Another reason for his anger during the breakup is that Tav is not only overturning a deeply important bond they had both willingly agreed to, but also returning him to the insecurity he lived with as a spawn - constantly counting the hours until the relationship would end and losing the comfort and love it had given him. It's something he never wants to experience again.
This dialogue shows why Astarion is so focused on being "together forever" - he wanted something deeply meaningful and truly special, something he had never even allowed himself to dream of before.
As a Lord he can offer them much more, and that gives him a measure of reassurance. Even so, his tendency to doubt himself may still play a role here.
Astarion may worry that Tav will leave him once they get to know him better.
However, Astarion is still confident that Tav will not leave.
Choosing to become a vampire he personally turned is such a life-defining decision.
In the ending where Tav claims the power of the Absolute, he assumes they will remain together and is shocked if they betray him.
Absolute ending is also possible if Tav is mortal and this confidence that they will be together remains.
It is also important, during the ending conversation, Tav refusing to become a vampire does not make Astarion want to end the relationship.
Player: I want to live forever. Make me a vampire.
Astarion: My sweet, I thought you'd never ask.
Astarion: Of course, you will be a spawn before you can become a true vampire, but that's a small detail.
Player: Actually, no. This isn't what I want.
Astarion: This isn't what you want yet. I'm sure you'll come around in your own good time.
Astarion: But until the moment's right, we can still be together. We can still taste all the delights of this world.
\END_GameFinale_ROM_RomanceFates_Astarion
If the subject of vampirism is never brought up, Astarion does not raise it himself, although it is clear that he intends to do so eventually.
In the Avenus or githyanki end, PC does not abruptly reject Astarion or imply that they no longer love him, that their "forever together" has been destroyed.
The six months that pass also give Astarion time to reflect on a long-distance relationship, even if he was unhappy with it at first.
A breakup before the ending gives him time to calm down. By then, he chooses not to cling to Tav anymore and is too proud to ask them to come back. As described in the release epilogues.
Only this breakup was fully developed into an epilogue. Every other ending portrayed Astarion and Tav continuing their mutual romance as an evil vampire couple - the direction that was ultimately preserved in the Patch 5 epilogue.
2 - This, however, does not change the first point: Astarion has no actual vampiric control over player character.
By pretending that he could control Tav but simply chooses not to, Astarion conceals the truth - that he cannot control them at all.
The PC has already become a true vampire under D&D 5e rules after drinking Astarion's blood.
If that is the case, then by sharing his blood so that Tav would receive Mephistopheles' blessing, Astarion turned them into a true vampire.
This would have been necessary to enjoy both pleasure and sunlight alongside him without ever suffering from blood hunger.
At the same time, true vampirism could become a threat if Tav rejected an eternity together and left him alone.
After centuries of loneliness, the prospect of losing the love he finally found is profoundly painful for Astarion. That is why he keeps the truth from Tav.
● In every possible branch, Tav, believing themselves to be a vampire spawn, likely assumes that all of their powers, matching those of a true vampire, come from the blood of their creator - the Ascended Vampire.
In the epilogue, the Tav themselves believes they are a vampire spawn. God-Gale does not dispute this, though he might simply be staying neutral and waiting for the Tav to reach their own conclusions.
Gale: Proof their hopes are not barren wastes, but the loamy soil in which their future achievements will flourish. Proof that with ambition, anything is possible.
Player: And what might your story prove for a vampire spawn like me? That I too might be able to ascend...
\EPI_Epilogue_GodGale
Why can't Tav ask about blood and its connection to true vampirism, something they discussed back in Act 1? A conversation about it?
For the same reason Astarion never even mentions true vampirism before or after the battle with his creator.
Many of the unusual aspects of Tav's vampirism remain unexplained:
The absence of being buried in the ground
Mild pain, in contrast to Astarion's intense pain
Pleasure mentioned
Voluntary blood transfer
The ability to continue drinking their creator's blood
Is it possible that the player character is not a true vampire despite undergoing a voluntary blood transfer?
And despite bypassing the mandatory stages of a vampire spawn's transformation?
Part 2. The Old lore
The early vampire lore and its evolution are important for context.
In Ravenloft lore, as well as in Forgotten Realms lore throughout the 1990s and earlier, the term "vampire spawn" did not exist.
There was only the inexperienced controlled young vampire
The term was used for this: Fledgling
It was not until around 2002–2003 that the term "vampire spawn" began to replace the earlier descriptions of a young vampire (fledgling) in both the Monster Manual and Ravenloft books.
In the 2000s, after the terms "vampire spawn" and "fledgling" began to appear alongside one another, a clear distinction between them started to emerge.
From that point on, fledglings were redefined closer to true vampires, while vampire spawn became the most dependent form of vampiric servant, completely bound to their creator.
This analysis focuses on the sourcebooks of the 1990s, which contain the most comprehensive descriptions of the transformation process, as well as vampire culture and interpersonal relationships among vampires.
In the book, there is a gradation of vampires by age:
Fledgling: 0-99 years
Mature: 100-199 years
Old: 200-299 years
Very Old: 300-399 years
Ancient: 400-499 years
Eminent: 500-999 years
Patriarch: 1000+ years
Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, p. 13 (1992)
Astarion uses this in relation to Cazador.
Astarion: Cazador Szarr… ancient vampire… bastard…
\Astarion_Dead
Van Richten describes several possible methods of becoming a vampire:
Traditional method, saliva, and the Dark Kiss, to which he devotes a separate chapter.
The traditional method more closely resembles Forgotten Realms vampire spawn. The other methods are more similar to what we see in BG3 with Tav.
Let us take a look at the traditional method in older lore.
The victim is killed by draining either their life force or all of their blood, followed by burial.
According to most related tales, a vampire can create another simply by killing a mortal either with its life-energy draining power (draining all the character's experience leveIs) or by exhausting the mortal of his or her blood supply. If the vietïm's body is not proper ly destroyed, it arises as a va m pi re, under the control of the creature who killed it, on the second night following the burial.
As an aside, I pose the question: What exactly does ït mean when the victim "arises" as a vampire'? When the sun sinks fully beiow the horizon on the second night after the burial, the victim in the grave "awakens." The occupant of the grave is now a Fledgling vampire with al) the characteristïes, powers, and weaknesses which accompany that condition. Most vampires remember the instant of their death and the nature of their killer, and understand immediately their new nature. Certainly their new hunger gives them a good idea of what they have become.
Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, p. 32 (1992)
Fledgling vampires have an inborn propensity to obey their creator.
This make fledglings resemble vampire spawn (DnD5).
The following is the main difference between the concept of a vampire under a master's control in the old and new lore:
Over time, the creator’s influence weakens. Their strength and independence depend solely on the length of their unlife and their will. The older they become, the more independent and powerful they are. They are usually killed before this can happen.
The "blood rule" is part of the DnD5-2014-lore for vampire spawn.
How, then, do vampires keep their slaves under their control beyond this period? They do so in much the same way that mortals dominate others: through intimidation. The fledgling is new to the vampiric world, and at least partially ignorant of its own abilities. Its creator can, if it is careful, create the perception in its offspring that the master is immensely more powerful and knowledgeable than the newly-created vampire, which it may in fact be. Through simple intimidation and by playing on the offspring's natural doubts and fears, the master can create a situation enabling it to "rule" for decades.
The reader may realize that this situation is totally different and much more unstable than the "traditional" picture of the master and its unquestioning slaves. Offspring vampires may have considerable free will from the moment of their creation, although they do have an "inborn" propensity to bow to the will of their creator. After several years have passed, however, this propensity wears off.
Van Richten describes the relationship between fledglings and their creators.
Creators who care for their "children" are ultimately destroyed by them.
However, he recalls hearing of a fledgling who avenged the destruction of their master. Something Van Richten finds difficult to believe, as a vampire hunter who does not believe they are capable of emotions akin to human ones, such as love and loyalty.
Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, p. 69-70 (1992)
In a later Ravenloft book, the concept of "siblings" is recorded.
Both terms are also present: "vampire spawn" and "fledgling".
Vampire spawn are subject to the same rules on feeding and sleeping as vampires, but they do not gain any enhanced abilities or salient powers as they age.
When a vampire spawn's creator is destroyed, one of several things happen to the spawn. Which event takes place is not predictable; as with many facets of vampirism, consequences vary from vampire to vampire.
In most cases, the vampire spawn are unchanged except for their newfound freedom of will. The spawn usually begin a solitary, predatory existence, although some may seek out social interaction with the living or with others of their kind. Newly freed vampire spawn have even been known to form hunting packs with their "siblings," though such packs usually fall apart due to competition and infighting.
(...)
The worst ofthe known possibilities is that the vampire spawn may suddenly mature into vampires themselves. The vampire spawn, in effect, start over as Fledgling vampires, with the vampire template being applied to the statistics the creatures had in life.
Ravenloft Players Handbook, 3e, 2003, p.200
Both the early lore (90s) and the newer lore (2000s), despite using terms such as vampire spawn and fledgling, also mention another type of vampire: the vampire bride.
Vampire Companions
A unique aspect of vampire culture, involving a ritual through which a mortal is transformed into a vampire's eternal companion.
They are called a "vampire bride" or "vampire groom".
Van Richten uses the term "bride", so let's follow his terminology.
The vampire bride has been part of the D&D vampire canon for many years.
Ravenloft: Realm of Terror
AD&D 2e
Jun, 1990
p. 28
Van Richten's Guide to Vampires
AD&D 2e
Jan 1, 1992
p. 70-75
Monstrous Compendium Ravenloft Appendix III: Creatures of Darkness
AD&D 2e
1994
p. 116-117
Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium. Volume 1
AD&D 2e
Feb 1999
p. 75-80
(same text as 1992, re-release for the 25th anniversary of D&D)
Denizens of Darkness
DnD 3e
Apr 2002
p. 169
Denizens Of Dread
DnD 3.5e
Jan 2004
p. 220
Novels:
"Vampire of the Mists"
Author: Christie Golden
First published: 1991
"I, Strahd: The Memoirs of a Vampire"
Author: P. N. Elrod (Patricia Nead Elrod)
First published: 1993
In the first book, the description states that, in essence, the vampire creator and their vampire mate exist in a form of mutual enslavement.
The vampire places themselves in a state of danger and vulnerability - if the bride chooses to harm them, she is capable of doing so. The vampire senses her pain even involuntarily.
The bride, in turn, due to her inexperience as a young vampire. This emotion bond between them, is also placed both in a vulnerable position.
In the first book mentioning this concept of a vampire couple the entire process was still presented without a detailed description of the relationship itself or a specific name for this process.
A slave vampire is not a mate, however.
Love, lust, or obsession may drive a master vampire to create a special bond with a particular victim - a bond that surpasses ordinary enslavement. To create this union, the master samples his victim's blood-once, twice, or several times.
Just before the victim has been drained to death, the master replenishes her with blood of his own. Only a few master vampires are capable of this act. The victim is still the master's slave, but in a way, the master becomes her slave, too (assuming the victim is female). She often can sense his thoughts. In this way, she has the power to protect him in times of need, but could also harm him. Despite the pronouns used here, gender is not a limiting factor. Master vampires may be male or female, and so may their mates.
Ravenloft: Realm of Terror, p. 28
This is reminiscent of Astarion's view of relationships.
Astarion sees deep emotional attachment and lifelong bonds as a state of being mutually beholden to one another, enslavement. On the Ascended path, he builds a relationship in the only way he knows - through the eternal bond, the way vampires express love.
Astarion sometimes expresses or hints at this.
After Tav refuses to spend eternity with him or in a banter with Wyll
Astarion: You are a person of rare talent. You aided greatly in my conquest, even if you did not end up a part of it.
Astarion: And if we were beholden to one another? Well, how is that too different to being enslaved? It is for the best.
Player: Say nothing.
Astarion: I was trying, with you, you know. In the only way I can try.
Astarion: The gravest crimes committed in this world are committed for love. A hunger crueller than bloodlust.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_BlackMassFollowUp
Astarion: Marriage, Wyll? I thought you'd have learned not to get trapped by devious contracts.
Wyll: I was planning to invite you to the ceremony, but I'm having second thoughts.
Astarion: I'd love to come! As long as I can sit with someone fun. Mizora, perhaps?
\PB_Astarion_Wyll_ROM_Act3
In Astarion's own romance story his perspective changes in the sense that he's willing to accept the bonds of love.
Astarion begins to understand the value of love so deeply that he clings to it, comparing it to a thirst for blood. It is a new kind of hunger that he has come to feel.
In the 1992 Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, a full and detailed description of the entire process is recorded.
The book does not use the term "vampire spawn".
As mentioned above, it did not exist in the canon at that time.
A bride, as a young vampire, is considered a "fledgling".
(...) she arises as a Fledgling vampire - and her creator's bride.
By the 3e-3.5e, the vampire bride had become a distinct category in the lore, separate from both fledglings and vampire spawn.
Denizens of Darkness. DnD 3e p. 169
Denizens Of Dread. DnD 3.5e p. 220
The distinction begins at the transformation stage itself, a process that was given the name the Dark Kiss in Van Richten's guides.
Every aspect of this union is both significant and unique to the two involved:
- method of transformation
- bride's unique form of vampirism
- magical as well as emotional bond they share
Each of these aspects will be examined below and compared with their portrayal in BG3.
The Dark Kiss
To actually create the bride, the vampire bestows what is known as the "Dark Kiss"
For your convenience, I suggest comparing this to the stages of a mortal’s transformation from Part 1.
● The vampire creator must drain a mortal almost to death, sampling their blood in three separate feedings.
It samples the blood of its mortal paramour - once, twice, thrice -draining her almost to the point of death.
In the traditional transformation, the process may begin with draining life force (health), followed by a final lethal bite.
In Dark Kiss, however, only blood-drinking is present.
Astarion bites Tav in the neck at the end of the scene.
I tend to think the other two bites may happen off-screen.
There is also the possibility of interpreting these moments as three bites: one to the neck at the beginning of the intimate scene - which may be kissing, but could also be interpreted as a bite, a bite to the arm (the gentle option), a bite to the neck
In the 1990 novel, the ritual is described as the vampire taking its mortal's blood "once, twice, or several times"
In the 1992, as "once, twice, three".
Neither book states that these must occur on separate nights, nor do they specify how much time must pass for them to count as separate feedings.
In the novel I, Strahd: The Memoirs of a Vampire (1993), the "once, twice, thrice" is interpreted as taking place over multiple nights. The vampire gradually transforms person by visiting them repeatedly. During the middle of the process, the young woman becomes ill in the presence of holy symbols and incense.
In the novel Vampire of the Mists (1991), the process does not require multiple nights to begin.
These novels will be analyzed later, after examining the vampiric transformation process in its entirety.
This is a major homage to Dracula.
There are quite a few elements inspired by it, including drinking a vampire creator's blood during the transformation. In essence, the whole thing.
The vampire genre experienced a major boom in 1992.
If you haven't already, I highly recommend watching Dracula (1992), starring Gary Oldman, Keanu Reeves, and Winona Ryder.
● No Burial
A bride awakens from her death-like coma after a few minutes or hours.
Fledglings\vampire spawn typically rise the following night.
Once the subject has stopped feeding, she falls into a coma that lasts minutes or hours (2d12 turns), at the end of which time she dies. Several (1d3) hours later, she arises as a Fledgling vampire—and her creator's bride.
Given that the text mentions minutes, no grave is actually required. The process is not described as requiring "quick burial underground" as an essential part of the transformation.
This remains important for fledglings and vampire spawn only.
● The blood of the vampire creator 🩸
This is a mandatory step.
The amount of blood in this case is more than a drop, as the vampire cuts themselves and lets the bride drink.
However, this is not a complete draining of blood as described in the 5e rules.
Just as the subject is about to slip into the terminal coma from which there is no awakening, the vampire opens a gash in its own flesh-often in its throat-and holds the subject's mouth to the wound. As the burning draught that is the vampire's blood gushes into the subject's mouth, the primitive feeding instinct is triggered, and she sucks hungrily at the wound, enraptured.
The amount of blood consumed by the bride is described as small.
The actual process of creating a bride inflicts some limited damage on the vampire. Even the small amount of blood the bride drinks weakens it for some time.
It also doesn't say how much blood is required for the process to be successful.
A vampire bride is the only type of vampire, besides a true vampire, that can drink the creator’s blood.
This is the second instance in D&D lore.
If Tav is not a true vampire after drinking the creator’s blood, then Tav is a vampire bride, which in older lore is referred to as a "fledgling".
There are no other rules or exceptions to the lore in 2026.
● The process is not painful. On the contrary, it brings euphoria
This process causes the subject no pain; in fact, it has been described as the most euphoric, ecstatic experience, in comparison to which all other pleasures fade into insignificance.
Also, the mention of pain can be interpreted to mean that the usual process of becoming a vampire as a transformation is painful in itself.
For the vampire creator, it is also experienced as pleasure.
The vampire must interrupt the blood-drinking, otherwise the transformation process is disrupted. Too much blood will drive the bride into madness and lead to death within 24 hours.
It is at this point that the creator-vampire's strength is most sorely tested. He is weakened by his own blood and also by his own rapture as the "victim" of a dark kiss. Overcoming the sudden loss of strength and the inclinations of lust, the vampire must pull her away from its own throat.
● A vampire is expected to be powerfuli
Its strength in Ravenloft depends on age.
(...) she is a Fledgling and her creator is at least an Ancient.
Astarion became one of the most powerful vampires ever seen in the Realms as a result of the ritual.
All of his vampiric abilities were significantly enhanced.
Raphael: The Rite of Profane Ascension.
Raphael: It promises to be a marvellous ceremony. Very elaborate, incredibly ancient, and entirely diabolical.
Raphael: If he completes the rite, he will become a new kind of being - the Vampire Ascendant.
Raphael: All the strengths of his vampiric form will be amplified, and alongside them he will enjoy the luxuries of the living.
Raphael: The arousals and appetites of man will return to him, and unlike Astarion, he will have no need of a parasite to protect him from the sun.
\CAMP_Astarion_RaphaelsRevelation_CFM
Although Astarion is still learning to control his new abilities and notes that his power grows gradually, he is technically already infused with power exceeding that of an ancient vampire.
The Failed Dark Kiss
If the vampire who was creating a potential bride was destroyed during the transformation, she could instead become a Vorlog.
Tormented by their loss, they find no peace; their lives are filled with grief over their lost love.
One of a vampire’s most vulnerable moments is when the evil creature is attempting to complete its dark kiss, its bonding with a new vampire companion, creating a vampiric "bride" or "groom". As elaborated upon by Doctor Rudolph van Richten in his great treatise on vampires, the process of creating a vampire bride or groom is quite elaborate, involving a great expenditure of both passion and blood on the part of the monster. For approximately one hour after the monster has poured all of its energy into the erstwhile companion, the vampire lies helpless beside the bride’s or groom’s transforming body. If the vampire is slain during this time period, its victim does not complete the transformation, but becomes a creature caught between the world of the living and that of the dead - a sorry being known as a vorlog.
(...)
The focus of the vorlog’s entire existence centers on its utter anguish and bereavement at the death of its vampire lover. The creature had already given itself over to the vampire, body and mind, when the newly wrought bonds were ripped away by the creature’s sudden demise. The shattering combination of psychic and physical blows is so devastating that the creature can never truly recover. Instead, it spends its eternal existence attempting to recreate its lost companion.
Monstrous Compendium III Creatures Of Darkness p. 116-117
As you can see, the process is described exactly like this: to give yourself - body and mind.
Astarion describes the transformation in the same words.
When a vampire chooses a new companion, it must pour its blood and passion into its beloved's transformation, then lie helpless beside its transforming chosen (see sidebar below). If the vampire is slain during this period, the companion instead becomes a pitiable thing trapped between the worlds of the living and undead. The vorlog looks like a normal humanoid to most observers, with only its budding fangs and pale and doleful expression indicating any change. A vorlog does cast a shadow, but it throws an eerily translucent reflection in mirrors.
Many adventurers have killed a vampire in the midst of the Dark Kiss and congratulated themselves on "saving" its victim, thereby damning the vorlog to a tortuous existence, yearning constantly for his lost love.
Denizens Of Dread p. 219
The nature of a vampire bride
After transformation, the vampire bride’s nature and the relationship within a vampire pair are also unique.
● A vampire can only have one Bride at a time. It takes a ritual to break the bond.
Any vampire can have only one bride or groom at a time. A vampire is physically incapable of creating another bride or groom while it has a companion already bound to it in this relationship. If the vampire wishes to create another bride or groom, it must either destroy its current bride or groom or follow the ritual described later to dissolve the bond between them.
● The bond between a vampire and their bride is eternal.
Unlike ordinary fledglings, who gradually lose their connection to their creator over time.
This continuous bond makes the bride more similar to the vampire spawn from DnD5e, where the bond between spawn and creator remains until death.
● The magical aspects of this bond are extensive, including mutual telepathy and a metaphysical sense of each other.
One vampire cannot read another's thoughts against their will. With one exception, strong emotions - such as pain, fear, or intense surprise - are shared between them.
One of the reasons "married vampires" are so difficult to defeat is that a vampire and its bride share a telepathic communication that has a range measured in miles.
One vampire cannot read the other's mind against the subject's will, so the bride cannot pilfer secrets from the mind of her creator. As the sole exception to this statement, one member of the pair can sense incredibly strong emotion in the other's mind. (This could be equated to hearing a vocalized gasp of surprise or fear.) Only extreme fear, pain, surprise, sadness or exaltation can be sensed in this manner.
● Destroying one inflicts massive damage on the other
While the bond is in existence, there is a strong metaphysical link between the two vampires’ unlife forces. (No doubt this link explains the telepathic communication the creatures share.) So close is this link that the destruction of one member of the bond inflicts grave damage to the other member.
● From the moment of creation, the bride possesses free will.
Any control exerted by the creator is entirely non-magical.
Although there are some folk tales that describe the bride of a vampire as its slave, in much the same way that offspring are slaves, a bride is free-willed from the moment of her creation. The creator vampire does have great influence over the bride, however, although this control is totally nonmagical.
(...)
By lying to her or bending the truth, he can convince her that she must obey his every order or suffer horrible consequences. With time, and through experimentation, the bride might find out the true level of control her creator has over her - that is, none. She is still in a very inferior position, of course, because she is a Fledgling and her creator is at least an Ancient.
All this made the vampire bride look like the true vampire we know from DnD5 - it was the bride who drank blood and gained independence - not from time, but from certain actions.
In the most escalated breakup branch, Astarion insists that Tav cannot leave him.
It may suggest that, under Astarion's non-magical influence, Tav doesn't even attempt to leave.
In the less confrontational breakup branches, however, Tav simply walks away without any discussion. This could depend on how Tav chooses to end the relationship.
● Unlike traditional fledglings, the bride has a poor understanding of her own condition, remaining unaware of her abilities and weaknesses.
When a vampire is created in the traditional manner - that is, when a victim's life energy is completely drained away - the new fledgling instinctively understands much about the vampiric way of unlife, and about its own strengths, weaknesses, and needs. Not so the bride.
● Control is instead based on emotional attachment and the bride’s inexperience with her new nature.
Newly-created brides are generally ignorant of their own capabilities. If in life they heard folk tales and myths about vampires, they might have some vague conception, but often these tales are totally wrong. The bride is effectively dependent - totally dependent - on her creator, to learn how to survive as a vampire. This obviously gives the creator great power over the bride.
● The bond between a vampire and their bride is unique to vampire culture.
The book is written from the perspective of a vampire hunter who questions whether vampires are capable of experiencing the same range of emotions as mortals.
The passage compares this to what Strahd von Zarovich feels - his obsession with a woman who rejected him. In such cases, vampires are portrayed as pursuing the fulfillment of their own desires.
Whether vampires are capable of love - or of genuine emotion in general - is a question that mortals repeatedly raise. Vampires, by their very nature, inspire disgust and a desire to destroy them.
To the mortal world, they are monsters.
For example, in BG3, Karlach voices similar doubts, to which Astarion responds while speaking as a vampire himself, fully subject to the effects of the vampiric curse.
Karlach: Sorry if this is rude, but... can vampires fall in love?
Astarion: What a preposterous question. Vampires can do anything you can do, and a damn sight better.
Karlach: Sunbathe? Swim?
Astarion: All right, there are a few limited exceptions.
Karlach: Good to know love is on the table though.
Astarion: It is. Though if the table is laden with good wine and meat, love is often left to rot with the salad leaves.
\PB_Karlach_Astarion_ROM_Act2_001
At the same time, in other instances, even the vampire hunter describes the relationship between a vampire and their bride as something closely resembling the love experienced by mortals.
Sometimes, however, the emotion may be close to what mortals classify as love.
The happiness of the vampire becomes tied up with the prospective bride, and its well-being depends on hers. In these cases, the vampire might actually believe it is bestowing a gift when it turns the mortal into its bride - the gift of freedom from aging and death.
Minthara refers to their immortality as a gift.
Minthara notes that their bond is truly unique and belongs to them alone.
Nightwarden Minthara: Would you ever consider sharing the gift of immortality with me, Astarion?
Astarion: I think not. That is for me and my darling to share.
Nightwarden Minthara: If they have prevented your eyes and fangs from wandering to other necks, it must be a special bond indeed.
\PB_Minthara_Astarion_ROM_Act3_001
The ritual itself is extremely complex and physically draining for the vampire.
By creating a bride, a vampire places themselves at risk, as the two become capable of feeling each other's pain. The death of either partner is experienced by the survivor as profound agony on every level - a vulnerability that vampire hunters can exploit.
This is something unique to vampires. They willingly accept this vulnerability, knowing the risks, because they long to find someone with whom they can share eternity.
For a more visual comparison with the Dark Kiss in BG3, I recommend the following videos on the vampire bride, available here, here and here
Kin-Nectar · A Vampire Drinking Another Vampire
As far as I have been able to find, the term kin-nectar appears exclusively in Van Richten's books - 1992 and its 1999 edition. It belongs to the early vampire lore that predates the introduction of the Rule of Blood in later editions of D&D.
1992 - Chapter 11, Relationships Between Vampires, p. 68
1999 - Chapter 10, Relationships Between Vampires, p. 74
Here are a few key takeaways from the book:
Kin-nectar is more nourishing than mortal blood.
Most vampires still prefer the taste of living blood.
Feeding creates a telepathic link lasting several hours.
<<If one vampire drinks the blood of another, the creatures enter into a close relationship: for several (1d3) hours following the feeding, the two creatures’ minds are so intimately linked that they can communicate telepathically as easily as by speaking. This telepathy persists regardless of distance or intervening matter as long as both vampires are on the same plane. One vampire cannot “overhear” thoughts not intended as communication, however>>
The vampire who drinks the blood gains limited control over the donor.
<<In addition, the vampire who drank the blood has a significant level of control over the vampire who provided the blood for as long as the telepathic link exists. The creature who fed can issue orders telepathically and the second creature must obey them, within reason>>
Because of the vulnerability created by this link, vampires rarely share their blood.
Vampires share their blood only if they totally trust each other or have no other choice.
<<Most vampires will find this interconnection distasteful and, in the case of the creature who was fed upon, downright dangerous, so the monsters usually shun kin-nectar. Most will only participate in this kind of feeding on either side if they totally trust the other participant (which is very rare) or if they simply have no choice in the matter>>
As of 2026, I haven't found this lore to have been updated or directly rewritten in D&D 5e/5.5e, with the exception of Baldur's Gate 3.
Astarion: Of course I will, and you'll drink mine. I can't wait to taste your lips after you've tasted me.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_PartneredWithAstarion
Old and New Vampire Lore
Novels
In addition to rule books, there are also the Novels.
"Vampire of the Mists"
Author: Christie Golden
First published: 1991
"One Last Drink"
is a short story prequel to the novel Vampire of the Mists.
Author: Christie Golden
First published: 1993 anthology Realms of Valor.
"I, Strahd: The Memoirs of a Vampire"
Author: P. N. Elrod (Patricia Nead Elrod)
First published: 1993
Vampire of the Mists and One Last Drink
The novel was written at a time when the earliest depiction of a vampire mate's transformation already existed, though such a vampire was not yet referred to as a "vampire bride."
Ravenloft: Realm of Terror AD&D 2e Jun, 1990 p. 28
Vampire of the Mists is the first big novel in Ravenloft setting, making it unique for several reasons.
Jander Sunstar is a vampire from Toril who travels across Faerûn.
Thus, it is also set in the Forgotten Realms.
Jander is the first elven vampire in Dungeons & Dragons.
Jander is a vampire who resists his own dark nature.
Jander despises his own kind and dedicates himself to hunting and killing them
Jander Sunstar was the first elven vampire ever described in Forgotten Realms lore. Astarion is an elven vampire who calls himself Princess of House Nightstar. Just a funny coincidence (?)
Player: Don't keep anything like this from me again.
Astarion: Well - if you must know...
Astarion: I'm actually a princess of House Nightstar.
Astarion: And I'm married to a tarrasque named Johnathan. Anything else you'd like to know?
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_RaphaelRevealedScars
This brief summary of the story provides an example of a vampire coven, demonstrates how mental control functioned over a fledgling, and illustrates different types of vampiric transformation.
One Last Drink, prequel
Jander was turned into a vampire by his master, Cassiar, a young man with red hair.
Cassiar was a master who allowed his vampires to drink human blood immediately after they awoke. His coven obeyed him and his commands: they searched for settlements, cleaned up the aftermath of massacres, and hunted and reveled as vampires alongside him.
Jander hated all of it. Life as a vampire was unbearable to him.
Jander persuaded Cassiar to give him one of the intended victims, Rhynn, whom he wanted to save from the other vampires' fangs. He then ruined Cassiar's hunt by releasing all of the captives from their trap. Jander directly threatens to kill him.
Cassiar merely remarked that it was a mistake and that Jander would be punished for it. Cassiar punished Jander by drinking his blood, which greatly weakens vampires.
Cassiar likely used kin-nectar to dominate Jander even better. Although the telepathic bond lasts only a few hours, it likely still affected Jander's spirit and, of course, his strength.
What Astarion endured after similar confrontations and acts of defiance would hardly compare to this. Furthermore, a coven like Cassiar's would likely have been Astarion's decent life. His objection to serving Cassiar would most likely have stemmed from his desire to be the one in charge and to enjoy complete freedom, rather than from any moral objection to the coven's brutality or the fact that they hunted and killed humans.
Cassiar' only flew into a rage after discovering that several vampires from his own coven had been killed.
Cassiar has now decided to kill his vampire elf.
A fight broke out between them.
The novel describes how Cassiar's mental control affects Jander.
This is early D&D lore - before the concept of vampire spawn existed, when vampires instead created young vampires under their control, which fades with time - Jander, who had already been a vampire for about a century, was able to resist that control.
Jander ultimately killed Cassiar, gaining his freedom.
This is where the prequel ends.
Vampire of the Mists
The novel begins with a quote from Bram Stoker's "Dracula".
Jander's wanderings in search of a cure for vampirism eventually brought him to Waterdeep, where he met a woman confined to an asylum. She called herself Anna.
Jander sincerely fell in love with a quiet, kind-hearted young woman who, for magical reasons, neither aged nor remembered what had happened to her. She was haunted by terrifying nightmares that would send her fleeing in panic, screaming.
When Jander asked what had happened to her - who had done this to her - she answered with a single word: "Barovia."
This continued for thirty years. Then the Spellplague swept across Faerûn, and the young woman began to die.
As she lay on the verge of death, Jander drank her blood. When he pulled away, he opened a wound on himself. Had she drunk his blood, she would have lived, and they could have remained together forever.
Jander drank eagerly, the warm, coppery-tasting fluid flowing easily down his throat. The life force it carried began to seep through him, renewing his power and rekindling his senses. It had been a long time since he had permitted himself such a banquet; he had almost forgotten the elation and heat a true feeding engendered. He felt himself surrendering to the pleasure. Dimly he noticed the change as the flavor began to turn ashy and empty.
Abruptly he stopped. He had almost gone too far; he had almost drained her dry in his hunger.
Quickly, still cradling her limp form in one powerful arm, he slashed a deep gash in his own throat with a clawlike nail. New blood - Anna's blood - pumped from the incision. Jander moved her like a doll, placing her mouth to his throat. "Drink, my love," he said hoarsely, "drink, and be one with me!"
There was no movement. Suddenly afraid, he shoved her face into the wound. "Anna, drink." She tried feebly to push him away, and he cast a frantic glance down at her
Anna refused. Her consciousness began to fade.
p. 19-22
The moment he regained his senses, he found himself surrounded by the aftermath of a massacre. Enraged by her loss, Jander slaughtered everyone around him without even realizing it.
Jander approached Anna's cold body. Since he drank her blood, it hastened her inevitable death. It seems Jander still had a chance to bring her back by burying her, but…
Having refused his blood, she could not become a vampire mate and was doomed to become a servile vampire.
Anna's true individuality would remain locked away as long as he exists.
Jander had tried to make Anna his mate, but she would not drink his blood. When she rose a few nights from now as an undead, she would be only a weak, servile vampire: his slave. That was all she would ever be, for all eternity, for slaves could never become true individuals while their maker existed. "Oh, Anna, I never wanted that for you," he said brokenly. "Death would have been better."
After driving out the remaining people, he burned everything behind him. And in this way, he gave Anna the eternal peace she had wanted.
The Mists came for Jander, carrying him to the very place she had named - to Barovia. In the hope of learning about Anna's past and avenging her.
The lore surrounding the vampire bride - or, in this case (1991), the vampire mate - is not exclusive to Ravenloft or to Strahd specifically.
This method of vampiric transformation is also used by a vampire from Toril, from Faerûn, the setting of the Forgotten Realms.
In Toril, Jander Sunstar is the only vampire ever described in the lore as beginning the Dark Kiss with his beloved.
Astarion may be the second - and, in his case, the first to successfully complete it.
(so I had to change the wording a bit, it's not just the Revenloft setting as it was discovered)
In the transformation method Jander begins with Anna, everything takes place over the course of a single night. Here, the phrase "once, twice, or several times" is likely interpreted as referring to separate bites rather than separate nights. Jander had never drunk Anna's blood prior to that night.
The book then goes on to describe Jander's own transformation into a vampire.
Jander encountered an old companion with whom he had once hunted monsters. But his former friend had become a monster himself. He seized Jander by the throat and bit into his neck.
When Jander awoke, buried beneath the earth, he learned that his former companion was a servile vampire serving Cassiar. He also realized that he himself was dead, and that Cassiar had become his master as well.
Awareness returned some time later. Something cool and moist and filled with the rich loam fragrance of earth covered the elf, pressing damply against his face. He shifted and tried to wipe the dirt away, but found that soil covered the rest of his body, as well. Panic gripped him, and he flailed frantically, scraping at the dirt on his face and clawing his way out of what he now realized was a shallow grave.
Pleased with his new servant, Cassiar immediately forced Jander to feed on a defenseless, most innocent person.
"No!" he cried, covering his face with his arms. "You can't make me do that to a child!"
Cassiar frowned, his boyish mouth puckering in annoyance. "You have no say in the matter. You will obey me, and I say drink!"
Jander was too young, too weak a vampire then to resist the command his master had given.
(...)
Afterward he looked up at Cassiar, and his silver eyes were filled with hatred. Though it would take him nearly a century, he eventually slew his evil master. That act of rebellion allowed him to forge his own future, but it did little to free his soul from the curse his traitorous friend had inflicted upon him.
p. 232-234
It would take Jander a hundred years before he finally managed to break free from his master's control.
---
In D&D 5e, Jander Sunstar's backstory was rewritten. His beloved was turned into an adventurer who fled after learning he was a vampire, with the help of her companions. Jander then slaughtered everyone he held responsible for taking her away from him.
In other words, his mutual love, his main motivation were completely twisted.
She died tragically in his arms, never having recovered from her curse and pain.
How on earth did you rewrite this?
I understand that this was probably done because the "tragic vampire in love" has become a cliché - characters like Louis or Edward come to mind, so perhaps that's why they chose to rewrite his love story.
However, Jander is already a legacy of the '90s, and in many ways D&D's own equivalent of Louis.
Just leave the guy as he is and his love, goddammit.
I'm not even talking about how they portrayed his fate. Not many people liked it, including the author of the novel.
But I'm more upset about the storyline involving the girl.
It literally goes, "Girl can't dream, and a girl can't have mutual love with a vampire" (even with a weirdo vegetarian vampire like Jander)
Bad, Wizards of the Coast, not good. Rewrite it back.
I, Strahd: The Memoirs of a Vampire (1993)
This novel already follows the more detailed vampire lore established in Van Richten's Guide. Here, the vampire mate is referred to as a vampire bride.
The novel describes the process by which Strahd turns Marina, one of Tatyana's reincarnations. The entire process clearly follows the rules of the Dark Kiss. Apart from the fact that the rules do not specify how long the interval between the three bites should be.
Marina drinks Strahd's blood, he calls her his bride, and throughout the turning Strahd experiences overwhelming ecstasy (the novel is written from his perspective).
When Marina is killed, he hears her calling to him and feels her pain as though it were happening to himself.
Her eyelids fluttered as she fought to stay conscious. I hurriedly tore open the front of my shirt and, with a diamond-hard talon, dug into the flesh over my heart. Our mingled blood slowly welled from the wound. When I pulled her up and pressed her lips to it, she began to drink.
(...)
I know not what pleasure she may have taken; my own was beyond any that I'd ever experienced before.
(...)
Here and now, I had nothing left to give but my own life's blood, but it was hers to take, and I murmured to myself, pleading to the dark magics that had made me to grant me this one boon - that she would at last be my bride.
(...)
Finally, I had to place the palm of my hand against her forehead and push with all my might, lest we both die.
(...)
Overcome by the same weariness, I dropped to the floor, shaking from fatigue and sudden hunger.
(...)
I sensed her strongly on the other side. She was only just now stirring.
Waking late and languorous…
(...)
The sudden rush of terror and agony crashed upon me like a physical blow. I thought it must be a blow, for I staggered and fell like a tree into the mud of the yard, helpless. My chest, my heart… Fire… Worse than fire… my hands scrabbled and encountered nothing, yet the pain was paralyzingly real. I was no stranger to a sword thrust, and that was what it felt like, only a thousand times worse.
Tatyana was screaming.
Shrieking.
And desperately calling on that silent link between us.
Calling on me.
Then…
Nothing.
The similarities between Baldur's Gate 3 and the Dark Kiss ritual, as well as the overall tone of vampire romance, are clear. Beyond that, another recurring element can also be observed.
We · Ours
Vampires appear to regard the act of sharing blood with one another and transforming the one they love into a being like themselves as the ultimate expression of union. Jander, Strahd, and Astarion all speak about transforming their beloved using language - "we," "us," and "our." This is a classic vampire romance trope - unity in eternity.
● Jander offering to turn Anna:
"Drink, my love," he said hoarsely, "drink, and be one with me!"
● Strahd on the blood of the murdered newly turned Marina:
"Her blood - our blood - had splashed all down the front of his clothes".
● Astarion does this nonstop.
This is also incredibly important to him because he never had anyone he could trust or consider close to him.
Astarion: I'm free. I'm finally free! Oh it feels delicious.
Player: You did it! I can't believe you did it!
Astarion: I did. We did.
\LOW_CazadorsPalace_RitualRoom_PostCombat_OM_Astarion_AOM_COM_OOM
Right after the ritual is completed, Tav can says: you did it. Astarion echoes them, then says: "We did." The word "we" is italicized.
This dialogue works on friendship path too.
On both paths, Astarion tends to use this "we" language, because he values this relationship being unique for him - someone caring for him and supporting him.
Astarion also has this as a personal trait. But it could also be connected to vampirism in the story, in line with the tropes
I like you, you mean a lot to me - and now it's not just "you and me" - it's "us".
On the mortal Tav path in the romance, Astarion also continues to see them as very close, together. Astarion also suggests - if the romance ends - that Tav become his partner in crime.
In other words, no matter what, Astarion is eager to keep it "us".
In the romance on the Ascended path, vampire theme is revealed, when Tav becomes like him and shares many things and eternity with him.
This further highlights the "We" part.
I covered Astarion's vampirism and vampirism in his romance in a separate big post here.
Astarion: Aeterna amantes. Lovers forever, until the world falls down.
\Astarion_InParty2_Nested_PartneredWithAstarion
Astarion: You know, now that our enemies have fallen, I might be the most powerful person in the world.
Astarion: And as you're my consort, that makes us the most powerful people in the world
Player: I wouldn't want it any other way.
Astarion: And neither would I. Together, we can do anything.
Astarion: The world is ours for the taking. So, what would you like?
\END_GameFinale_ROM_RomanceFates_Astarion
Astarion: Still, it is good to see them. And good for them to see us, side by side, flourishing.
Player: It is wonderful. I'm glad I get to share this with you.
Astarion: And I am blessed to share it with you, my love.
Astarion: I may have power, but it would be nothing without you. You complete me.
Astarion: And together, we are unstoppable. So Heavens help the fool that tries to get in our way.
\EPI_Epilogue_Astarion_Lord
Astarion: Well, my love, we did it. This world is ours, as it should be.
Astarion: I always knew you could do it. I always knew that together, we could do anything.
\Absolute End
\END_BrainBattle_FinalDecision_Nested_EvilAvatar
Curse of Strahd (2016)
In this book Strahd von Zarovich having multiple brides simultaneously first appears in 5th Edition.
Since becoming a vampire, he has taken several consorts - none as beloved as Tatyana, but each a person of beauty. All of them he turned into vampire spawn.
p.10
In the description of Strahd's Tomb, his three consorts are explicitly described as vampire spawn brides.
Lying under the earth near the east wall of the tomb are three vampire spawn brides dressed in soiled gowns and wearing dirt-encrusted jewelry (see "Treasure" below). They rise to attack anyone who approaches Strahd's coffin.
p.93-94
Rahadin's description also states that Strahd found brides and turned them into vampire spawn.
Rahadin's loyalty didn't waver after Tatyana died and Strahd became a vampire. Rahadin continued to do his master's bidding. Eager to put Tatyana out of his mind, Strahd lured more women to the castle, taking several of them as brides before draining their lives and turning them into vampire spawn. Rahadin would see to it that these women were lavished with jewels and fine clothes, and made comfortable during their stay in Ravenloft.
p.237
Like Dracula, Strahd now has three brides: Ludmilla Vilisevic, Anastrasya Karelova, Volenta Popofsky.
All three are officially referred to as vampire spawn, consorts, and brides.
At the beginning of the adventure (page 10), another reincarnation of Tatyana - Ireena Kolyana - is introduced. Strahd intends to turn her into his vampire spawn consort.
Ireena looked exactly like Tatyana! Strahd now believes that Ireena is the latest reincarnation of Tatyana, and thus he seeks to claim her.
Strahd's evil courtship has led him to visit Ireena twice. On both occasions, he charmed his way into her home - the house of her adopted father, the burgomaster of the village of Barovia - and drank her blood. He intends to kill Ireena during their next meeting and turn her into his vampire spawn consort.
p.10
The text also states that Strahd has already visited Ireena twice, which is presented as two bites.
Following the Dark Kiss, only the third remains.
Ireena, a striking young woman with auburn hair, has been bitten twice by Strahd.
On page 161, the adventure also mentions Marina, Tatyana's previous reincarnation, who was turned into a vampire according to the Dark Kiss.
In his rage after her death, Strahd flooded the entire village, transforming it into a swamp from which its inhabitants never returned.
He seduced her in the dead of night and feasted on her blood, but before she could be turned into a vampire, the burgomaster of Berez, Lazlo Ulrich, with the aid of a local priest named Brother Grigor, killed Marina to save her soul from damnation.
p.161
Thus, the canon does not discard the events of the novel by explicitly referencing Marina and, by extension, her turning. Likewise, Ireena's transformation is portrayed as a gradual process that occurs without being buried in the ground.
Ireena and Marina - both reincarnations of Tatyana - are turned by Strahd through the Dark Kiss, a ritual that traditionally implies the unique nature of this form of vampirism.
Because Curse of Strahd directly references Marina - and therefore the events of I, Strahd - the older Ravenloft lore surrounding the Dark Kiss can reasonably still be considered applicable.
As the meaning of the term fledgling evolved, so did the concept of the vampire bride.
In the 1990s, a Fledgling was a young, controlled vampire, naturally inclined to obey its creator.
A vampire bride was always an unique kind of Fledgling.
Bride possessed free will from the moment of her creation and was not subject to innate control. Instead, she shared a unique bond with her creator. Only a vampire bride drank her creator's blood.
The lore of vampires and Dark Kiss is related to Forgotten Realms through the novel Vampire of the Mists (1991). This is not exclusive to Revenloft. This is a thing of all vampires.
By the 2000s, the term Fledgling had come to refer to young, inexperienced vampires much closer to true vampires. The place of the most subordinate vampire in the hierarchy was taken by the vampire spawn.
Although the concept of the vampire bride remained part of the lore, it continued to be distinct from both Fledglings and vampire spawn.
In 2014 🩸 the "blood rule" in MM DnD5e was reassigned to vampire spawn, becoming the method by which a spawn could be become a true vampire. The terms fledgling and vampire bride have not yet been revisited.
In 2016, Curse of Strahd was released with numerous references to old Ravenloft lore.
It also places the term consort alongside vampire spawn and bride.
Since Strahd is the lord and ruler of Barovia, the title consort naturally fits his spouses. The term itself is not unique to Ravenloft - in Baldur's Gate 3, for example, both Wyll and Minthara also use the word consort in the sense of a ruler's spouse.
Wyll: And one day, I might even call you consort to Grand Duke Wyll Ravengard of Baldur's Gate. My pride, my joy.
\Wyll_InParty2_Nested_KissBranch
___
Nightwarden Minthara: I take no pleasure in what I must do. In another life, I would have taken you as my consort in Menzoberranzan.
\CAMP_GoblinHuntCelebration_SCO_DrowBetrayal
The word bride, however, is a much more direct reference to the older Dark Kiss and demonstrates continuity with earlier lore.
This partial revision of the lore raises important questions about which aspects have actually changed and which have remained the same.
If Strahd's three brides are simply vampire spawn created through the ordinary method of vampiric turning, then the fact that there are three of them presents no contradiction. Or their bonds have been severed.
If that is not the case, then it is likely that only the old restriction allowing a vampire to have only one bride at a time has been rewritten.
Unlike the Ravenloft books of early 2000s, the vampire bride is now explicitly identified as a vampire spawn in D&D5e.
The concept of the vampire bride likely returned to something closer to the Fledgling of the 1990s lore, which itself was the early concept that would later become the vampire spawn.
Thus, Baldur's Gate 3 does not contradict the vampire bride theory by referring to the bride as a vampire spawn.
The remaining question is whether the other distinctive aspects of a vampire bride's unique form of vampirism have also been rewritten.
Based on the reference to Marina in Curse of Strahd and the beginning of Ireena's transformation, it appears that the process of turning itself has not changed and remains distinct from the ordinary method of creating a fledgling\vampire spawn.
When Astarion turns the PC into a vampire, the transformation itself differs from the traditional process: several elements are unique, while others are either absent or never mentioned. At the same time, the blood he gives them allows the resulting vampire to be interpreted as either a true vampire or a vampire bride.
Unless future material explicitly states otherwise.
In the 2016 DnD5 book - Curse of Strahd, the vampire bride is identified as a vampire spawn, yet the references to the 1992 Ravenloft rules and the 1993 novel preserve all of the unique characteristics established there.
Unless future material explicitly states otherwise.
Relationships Within a Vampire Pair
Astarion's romance and relationship with Tav can also be seen as drawing inspiration from older vampire lore, where relationships are explored in considerable detail.
Life within a vampire pair depends on the personalities of both vampires and on how they approach their bond.
Romance ending - game release:
It all depends on how bloodstained your consort's path has been - you choose to travel, take up the sword, or weave your web of power within the palace walls.
Withers: The Vampire Ascendant. He chose to leave Baldur's Gate with his consort and travel the world, indulging in every delight it offered.
Withers: Rumours of their debauchery abound, but all agree - a night revelling with them will be the greatest or most horrifying night of your life.
/END_GodsAndMonsters_WithersChronicles
Withers: His former master destroyed, thousands of souls sacrificed, and his place as the Vampire Ascendant secured. His parties alone are worthy of ballads and legends.
Withers: Though no ballads are ever writ, such is the fear that doth swirl about Astarion and his bloody consort.
Withers: Though no ballads are ever writ. His guests he welcometh to his home, his consort locketh the door.
/END_GodsAndMonsters_WithersChronicles
Romance ending - patch 8:
A vampire and bride who truly love and trust each other make a team that is exceptionally difficult to defeat!
Van Richten's Guide to Vampires
Given the differences between D&D 5e vampire rules in the Forgotten Realms setting and the similarities to Ravenloft and older FR, what happens to the player character - the nature of their vampirism and the bond they share with Astarion in Baldur's Gate 3 - can be interpreted as an Easter egg, inspiration drawn from the Dark Kiss, the ritual that binds two vampires to one another for eternity.
The richness and legacy of Dungeons & Dragons' vampire lore is truly fascinating. There is an entire fantasy world surrounding Astarion, and through him, exploring the Realms, Barovia, and vampire lore becomes an incredibly engaging experience.
This is only the beginning. Across Toril, vampires have shaped history for centuries. From ancient covens hidden within great cities like Baldur's Gate to infernalist vampires, forgotten relics, secret traditions, and powerful bloodlines, there is an entire world still waiting to be explored. The history of vampires stretches across the Sword Coast and far beyond, with countless stories yet to be uncovered.
Because it seems no one wants to talk about it in its entirety.
Contents of a very long post:
The dialogues of each time you can ask Astarion for a polyamorous relationship with the different companions
My breakdown of each reaction
Overview putting those reactions together
A tad bit of metaknowledge
Conversations:
Lae’zel
Player: You may have heard... about me and Lae'zel.
Astarion: Not that I wanted to hear it, but you and Lae'zel are louder than worgs in heat. Although the shouts and screams do sound more tender and loving lately.
Astarion: So, will you want to keep yourself for your new, true love? Is this the end of our late-night trysts?
Astarion: Even though they were an awful lot of fun?
Player: I can be with you both, if you're comfortable with that?
Astarion: I am in no way comfortable with that! Lae'zel would never approve and I value my life too much to get on her bad side.
Astarion: Trust me, you will have more than enough on your plate without me there too. This is for the best.
Shadowheart
Player: You may have heard... about me and Shadowheart.
Astarion: It's hardly a surprise you'd invest your heart in our Sharran. I'm sure she's a delight, even if she's a little... conflicted.
Astarion: So, will you want to keep yourself for your new, true love? Is this the end of our late-night trysts?
Astarion: Even though they were an awful lot of fun?
Player: Why have such a restrained view of love? Can't I keep seeing you as well?
Astarion: Maybe if Shadowheart had more experience in these affairs, or if you two weren't just starting out, but this? No.
Astarion: Take it from someone with experience - hearts are built to break. They do it over the smallest things.
Astarion: And if our favourite Sharran's heart breaks, I'm worried she might get a little... murdery?
Player: I can see why you might want to stay out of that. / Player: Are you sure you don't want to try it? / Player: I'm surprised you're willing to give me up. I thought you'd be more possessive.
Astarion: Trust me, you will have more than enough on your plate without me there too. This is for the best.
Karlach
Player: You may have heard... about me and Karlach.
Astarion: You and Karlach? Well that's certainly a... unique pairing.
Astarion: Imagine forgetting how it feels to hold someone. All because of what some devil did to her.
Astarion: But she has you now. I'm sure that's some comfort.
Astarion: So, will you want to keep yourself for your new, true love? Is this the end of our late-night trysts?
Astarion: Even though they were an awful lot of fun?
Player: I'm sure Karlach wouldn't mind if we kept seeing each other.
Astarion: Darling, healthy relationships are not my strong point, but even I can see she loves you.
Astarion: Normally I'd be all for finding an arrangement, but hearts are fragile things at the best of times. And Karlach's?
Astarion: After what she's been through, it will need a very gentle hand. So let's not complicate things, hmm?
Player: I can see why you'd want to stay out of something like this. / Player: Are you sure you don't want to try it? / Player: That is... surprisingly mature advice.
Astarion: Trust me, you will have more than enough on your plate without me there too. This is for the best.
Wyll
Player: You may have heard... about me and Wyll.
Astarion: Wyll's the sort of prince-type I would have once dreamed of marrying. When I was about thirteen.
Astarion: So, will you want to keep yourself for your new, true love? Is this the end of our late-night trysts?
Astarion: Even though they were an awful lot of fun?
Player: Actually, if you're comfortable with it, perhaps I can keep being with both of you?
Astarion: Come now, Wyll won't agree to that. He's stuck in the past, and that's coming from a vampire.
Astarion: But if you ever get tired of your decades-long devotion to one another, I'm always here for a sordid affair.
Player: Trust me, that's never going to happen.
Astarion: Never say never, darling.
Player: I might bear that in mind.
Astarion: You little scoundrel, you.
Player: You know you're a terrible person, right?
Astarion: Only when it comes to morals. I'm very, very good where it counts.
Astarion: But for now, I'm more than happy for you and your newly-acquired Blade. If only he was as sharp as me.
Gale
Player: You may have heard... about me and Gale.
Astarion: Gale of Waterdeep: a limp passion.
Astarion: So, will you want to keep yourself for your new, true love? Is this the end of our late-night trysts?
Astarion: Even though they were an awful lot of fun?
Player: You can care about more than one person. I'd like to keep seeing you, too.
Astarion: Oh my dear, you're sweet, but we must have standards.
Astarion: I am not interested in being in any love triangle that involves Gale.
Player: Thanks for taking this so maturely. / Player: Well, that's that, then.
Astarion: If it helps, I'm more than happy with where things are.
Astarion: After all, I know you'll spend the rest of your days dreaming about the nights we spent together. You lucky thing, you.
Player: I hope we can still be friends.
Astarion: We can try, but it may be difficult.
Astarion: After all, I know you'll spend the rest of your days dreaming about the nights we spent together. You lucky thing, you.
Halsin
Player: You wouldn't believe the conversation I've just had with Halsin…
Astarion: Ah, ha ha ha, I was wondering when you were going to ask me about this.
Player: How could you tell? / Player: Did he talk to you about it?
Astarion: I guessed. The man can't stay quiet about 'enjoying the freedom of Nature's gifts'. I bet he'd outlaw clothing if he could.
Player: It's all right with you? You don't sound fazed…
Astarion: The druid is unique. He has a lot of experience with this type of arrangement.
Astarion: Thus, I'm sure it would be quite a harmless affair.
Player: So, you wouldn't mind? If I had something with him? / Player: I wouldn't even consider it if it bothered you. / Player: I'm still not sure about it. I wanted to get your thoughts.
Pre-Cazador:
Astarion: I'm happy for you to have as much Halsin as you wish - but I do have one question.
Astarion: It's not because... you know... we haven't... in a while?
Player: Gods, I don't want you to think that for a moment.
Astarion: I know I was being foolish. But thank you for saying it.
Player: I've admired Halsin for a while, that's all it is.
Astarion: I'm fairly sure the only one in the camp who hasn't is Withers, but even with him one can never be certain.
Astarion: Even jerky was meat once.
Player: He propositioned me out of nowhere - I just want to see where it goes.
Astarion: What hovel were you living in, that you didn't see this coming back in the grove? Honestly. But that's fine.
Player: What I have with you is wholly different and very special to me.
Astarion: Aww.
Astarion: I know I was being foolish. But thank you for saying it.
Player: I don't want you to feel bad, but I have felt frustrated.
Astarion: Oh. Well, you would. Wouldn't you? It makes sense.
Post-Cazador, Spawn:
Astarion: I trust you to make choices that are not going to hurt what we have.
Player: I want to see what happens with him.
Astarion: Honestly, so do I. What an adventure for you!
Astarion: You're lucky I'm such an open-minded person.
Player: I care for you a great deal. That's never changing.
Astarion: After all this, I've realised it's all right if it does change. If anything changes.
Player: I don't know what lies ahead, but I trust you, too.
Astarion: You're lucky I'm such an open-minded person.
Post-Cazador, Ascended:
Astarion: It doesn't concern me. You are mine. No one can change that.
All end with: Astarion: Go right on with Halsin. Far be it from me to hold your hunger against you.
Individual Breakdowns:
Lae'zel
"Not that I wanted to hear it" and "sound more tender and loving lately" -- He knows about the relationship, and he knows it is already becoming "something real" faster than he was able to ask for "something real." This isn't news to him. He's had time to think about it.
"I am in no way comfortable with that!" On a first glance and initial hearing, at this point it can seem he doesn't like sharing despite already having done so. But then he continues: "Lae'zel would never approve and I value my life too much to get on her bad side." He knows (or rather, assumes) the answer is already a no from Lae'zel for this question. And Lae'zel is an intense woman who knows how to fight and isn't one to shy away from it. He knows agreeing to trying a polyamorous relationship with her and the PC is going to become a potentially slipper slope, especially when Lae'zel isn't romantically or sexually involved with him, too. She can easily become angered over the idea of sharing her partner if she does not agree, or she can easily become angered over any number of potential things in the future, be it jealousy or Astarion making mistakes from her perspective.
The fake, seductive relationship he has started with the PC is not worth the threat of death.
Shadowheart
"It's hardly a surprise you'd invest your heart in our Sharran." Aww he likes her <3 But in seriousness, once again, he is -- as he literally states this time -- not surprised. The relationship with Shadowheart becoming "official" may be news to him, but the connection she and the PC share is not.
"Maybe if Shadowheart had more experience in these affairs, or if you two weren't just starting out, but this? No." He is outright saying that the aspect of sharing the PC is not his concern: it is Shadowheart herself. Her lack of experience and fresh new relationship that was not started with this arrangement in mind is where he is drawing the line. But then he also adds: "Take it from someone with experience - hearts are built to break. They do it over the smallest things." He cannot personally see this working out. Shadowheart is dealing with a lot and can't even remember much of her own self. He isn't even worried about himself (yet) but Shadowheart being harmed by this. He's not assuming she will say no, but that she will say yes and get hurt because of him. This makes me feel as though he cannot see himself ever giving the PC "something real" beside Shadowheart, that him being there can only cause problems. I mean, that's all he knows, right?
"And if our favourite Sharran's heart breaks, I'm worried she might get a little... murdery?" Here it is again, right after his more concerned insight: "I'm afraid it will kill me. Literally." Lae'zel and Shadowheart are, after all, known for their "girlfighting" and how neither backs down. Lae'zel may be consistently intense, but Shadowheart is a dagger in the dark: something Astarion is very familiar with. He doesn't want Shadowheart to be hurt anyway, he doesn't want her heart broken, but he also knows with that comes the very real fact he could become a target. When he doesn't feel he has anything real on offer, it's just simply not worth the risk.
Karlach
"You and Karlach? Well that's certainly a... unique pairing." Funnily enough, Karlach seems to be the only one he is somewhat surprised by. But, that doesn't stop him from having very caring insight into her and the PC's relationship. "Imagine forgetting how it feels to hold someone. All because of what some devil did to her. But she has you now. I'm sure that's some comfort." Astarion and Karlach have a lot of dialogue throughout the game about understanding each other, and before the offer is even made he is saying he understands how important it must be to have someone care about you in the way you need it most after such torment. He knows having the PC is comfort: he was learning about that comfort, too.
"Darling, healthy relationships are not my strong point, but even I can see she loves you." I love this line so much for the irony of it. He isn't good with healthy relationships -- he hasn't had the opportunity to have one until now -- but he's talking on so many points of someone wanting the best for their friends and partner, even if that means losing his partner. He is seeking out the healthiest possible outcome he can think of by way of avoiding all the bad shit he knows. No, he's not perfect about it, but he's really damn good about it for where he's at.
"Normally I'd be all for finding an arrangement," PAUSE. Replay. "Normally I'd be all for finding an arrangement," is something I want to scream from the rooftops some days. He is blatantly stating here that the polyamory is of no concern to him. He's fine with it! Normally he would say yes. But this isn't his normal.
"[...] but hearts are fragile things at the best of times. And Karlach's? After what she's been through, it will need a very gentle hand. So let's not complicate things, hmm?" He is once again saying he doesn't want your other partner to be hurt. He's not saying he wouldn't share, he's saying that he can only see things ending poorly for the other partner. He wants you to give Karlach your full, careful, soft, loving, gentle attention. He thinks anything less would hurt her after she's only known hurt for a decade.
And while this is not an Astarion quote, I do want to highlight an option the PC has that summarizes my thoughts on most (definitely not all lol) of his reactions: "That is... surprisingly mature advice." He is actually thinking about how things may work instead of just jumping into it blindly or brushing it off for nothing. When he cares, he cares deeply, and he can explain these things.
Wyll
"Wyll's the sort of prince-type I would have once dreamed of marrying. When I was about thirteen." Ah, the beloved quote of all Wyllstarion shippers (hello). Astarion, being himself, of course has to brush off this little comment, but it is just another example of him caring about the other companions. It also lends itself to the thought of comparison. How Astarion views Wyll as the Perfect Hero type, while Astarion himself is a monster who can only harm; everybody can love Wyll, but no one is pining after the evil spawn.
"Come now, Wyll won't agree to that." Once again he's assuming a no from the other party. "He's stuck in the past, and that's coming from a vampire." A weird thing Larian does here (and a couple times elsewhere) about how polyamory is "newer" in an age and setting where that is simply not the case. However, going with it being seen that way: Astarion is saying that Wyll is obviously monogamous while Astarion is not. Ye old vampire spawn is "up to date" and open to such relationships, while the Dashing Young Hero is obsessed with the old fairytales of monogamous marriages who live happily ever after alone. Astarion isn't saying no to the idea of polyamory, he is saying that Wyll would say no.
"But if you ever get tired of your decades-long devotion to one another, I'm always here for a sordid affair." Astarion here is basically saying he's down to take the PC back in secret, since it is obvious to him that Wyll would say no, while also downplaying the "boring" partnership. Wyll may be a monster hunter, but Astarion is not actually afraid of him by this point. He doesn't worry about being attacked like with Lae'zel and Shadowheart. He doesn't even worry about hurting Wyll, quite honestly, but Wyll is also the type to hide his hurt very quickly. Those of us that care to look can see it, but perhaps Astarion is still too busy with the monster vs monster hunter and comparisons in his head to notice. "If only he was as sharp as me." Yes, Astarion, you need to put down the hero so you can feel a little better about yourself.
Gale
Now for, in my opinion anyway, the most amusing of Astarion's responses. "Gale of Waterdeep: a limp passion." A lovely start of putting down the other partner.
"Oh my dear, you're sweet, but we must have standards. I am not interested in being in any love triangle that involves Gale." This time he isn't assuming the other partner would say no, he's not assuming anyone will be hurt, but he is saying that he has standards for such an arrangement: not Gale. No deeper reasoning this time. Which is perfectly valid to just not vibe with the idea but is very funny when he has thought about the details for everyone else.
"After all, I know you'll spend the rest of your days dreaming about the nights we spent together. You lucky thing, you." And he ends it still talking down on Gale. The idea is fine, but Gale is not, and you'll miss me for it, next topic please!
Halsin
Halsin, Halsin, Halsin. The one everyone wants to talk about, but never in full, and never with respect. Astarion has not one potential conversation but three! Due to the timing of Halsin's confession, Astarion can be in three very different states of mind, and that changes how he approaches the topic with the PC -- but never changes his answer.
"Ah, ha ha ha, I was wondering when you were going to ask me about this." He knew! And, not to get out of order, but I must also bring up a later line: "What hovel were you living in, that you didn't see this coming back in the grove?" Some of the others he knew about, some maybe not so much, but he still (generally) gave careful thought to how sharing the PC as a partner might go within the timeframe of Act 1 into Act 2, if not on the spot. But Halsin? He saw it coming in the grove. He saw this conversation coming from months ago. He knew! So he has had more time to think about how Halsin would go about things than any other companion. He has had more time to figure out why it would not work out and just how he could say no to this like all the others. But he doesn't come up with anything.
"The druid is unique. He has a lot of experience with this type of arrangement. Thus, I'm sure it would be quite a harmless affair." Now, Astarion is assuming Halsin has done this "a lot" where he has -- even temporarily -- a partner with multiple steady partners, maybe multiple himself. But there is a certain level of trust and expectation with Halsin. Astarion doesn't have to worry about hurting the other partner: Halsin is asking for this type of relationship upfront. Astarion also doesn't have to worry about being harmed himself: Halsin isn't seeking to take from him, isn't possessive or jealous. This isn't Act 2 where the others are racing to claim the "real" relationship status. This is Act 3 where Astarion has "something real" with the PC and was chosen by them, and is now being asked his thoughts. The PC isn't going behind his back, they are seeking out a conversation about where their relationship is at, what it is, and if it could be open to at least one more.
First, the pre-Cazador conversation, the one that most people talk about.
"I'm happy for you to have as much Halsin as you wish - but I do have one question. It's not because... you know... we haven't... in a while?" Now, before we get to Astarion himself, I need to make one thing very clear that apparently isn't widely understood: polyamorous people are also people. Full human beings with the same wide array of emotions and feelings as monogamous people. Polyamorous people can get insecure, jealous, feel neglected, etc. no matter what their arrangement is. It does not mean they are not "really polyamorous," it just means that more communication needs to happen, potentially followed by change. A monogamous person may feel a little down about their relationship but can talk things through and come out the other side stronger with their partner together. This is the same with polyamorous people and their partners as well. Communication and respect is how you build all healthy relationships, not jumping ship at the first tiny pebble in the road. They are work, monogamous or polyamorous. And all relationships are unique to the partners within them -- even monogamous relationships are not “one size fits all,” no matter how people like to act that way. Now, back to Astarion.
"I'm happy for you to have as much Halsin as you wish [...]" He starts this with his answer upfront: yes, the PC can be with Halsin. He saw it coming, he doesn't see it as an issue, so yes. "[...] but I do have one question. It's not because... you know... we haven't... in a while?" Cazador is not dead yet, and Astarion is still stuck in his head. He's grown and healed just enough on this journey to have it in him to realize he does not need to be used anymore. He does not need to use himself. And he can say no, but he still isn't so certain on why the PC is with him. Astarion still can't see what he has to offer to someone who agreed to "something real." He still sees himself as a partner who is lacking, and so he can only assume Halsin is filling a void rather than expanding and adding to a whole.
As for how you can answer his insecurity...
"Gods, I don't want you to think that for a moment." is responded to with "I know I was being foolish. But thank you for saying it." He held a trust in the PC to bring it up -- something he couldn't even get the proper words out for -- and now he gets to hear it confirmed. He isn’t “lacking.” That’s not what they were thinking about when Halsin confessed, and that’s not how they view him. He is insecure and being supported by his partner.
"I've admired Halsin for a while, that's all it is." is responded to with "I'm fairly sure the only one in the camp who hasn't is Withers, but even with him one can never be certain. Even jerky was meat once." He's making a bit of a joke about it, as he does, but this also includes himself. Astarion has admired Halsin. It's not as sweet as two of the other responses since the PC isn't outright saying "no, this isn't just about the sex," but he is still unsurprised and basically veils a "me, too" response.
"He propositioned me out of nowhere - I just want to see where it goes." is responded to by what I brought up earlier: "What hovel were you living in, that you didn't see this coming back in the grove? Honestly. But that's fine." It almost feels like he's so surprised by the PC's oblivious comment that he entirely forgot about his insecurity. His partner wasn't thinking about sex because his partner was blind to the option? Wow! It must be an oddly reassuring response for him to be told there was no goal, they're just rolling with it. No, they weren't "missing out" because he was withholding sex.
"What I have with you is wholly different and very special to me." is responded to the same as the first but with an added "Aww." Now, I won't lie, his little "aw" feels a bit sarcastic -- like he is trying to make light of their sweet comment. After all, the sweet and nice things are not something Astarion knows what to do with ("Eugh, don't be so nice to me! It makes me want to be nice back." with the "Astarion approves" popping up in the corner, anyone?). Those aren't things people say about or to him! But he still says he knows it was foolish and thanks the PC for verbalizing their support, something he needed to hear in this moment. Ideally there would be more to this, but, alas, it is but a game. It is also a comment that builds up Astarion to push down Halsin, which personally rubs me the wrong way. But it is firstly just one of the options, and secondly in line with how Halsin is generally treated by the writing and game itself -- so I can't be too surprised it is there as a "supportive" remark.
Lastly, you can confirm his insecurity: "I don't want you to feel bad, but I have felt frustrated." is responded to with "Oh. Well, you would. Wouldn't you? It makes sense." Oh! Astarion wasn't actually expecting it. He put trust in his partner -- a very vulnerable thing to do for him to begin with -- to try "something real," and put more trust in asking for reassurance and now didn't get it. Oh. He follows that up with basically going "of course." Of course it was too good to be true that he wasn't a burden. Wasn't a lacking partner. But that isn't enough for him to rescind his answer from the start. "I don't want you to feel bad." The PC is still saying that they care. They still want him for who he is while they have been dealing with their own personal sexual frustrations. They didn't bring it up before and only brought it up now because he outright asked about it. Because "I don't want you to feel bad." Sometimes giving people what they need to grow and heal can leave you with minor and temporary inconveniences, frustrations, whatever they are for the situation. Despite his insecurity, I think he still understands this to at least some extent. His partner has stayed with him -- and is still staying with him -- to figure things out together. Because they want him, Astarion, not just his body. If it were truly a big issue, this would not be the conversation it is, nor would the PC have agreed to go without sex for so long.
Second, Astarion's reaction to the proposal post-Cazador while staying a spawn, which many seem to not know exists:
"I trust you to make choices that are not going to hurt what we have." If you think about how he reacts to most of the other companions, this is huge. First of all, even just the fact that he is outwardly stating that he trusts the PC, zero insecurity, is a major win for Astarion and his healing journey. He was already assuming that Halsin knows exactly what he's doing and won't be an issue, but now he's trusting that it also won't be an issue from the PC. He never mentions thinking about the PC hurting him before, only others. And now his only mention is that he trusts them not to? That, to me, feels like the start of something beautiful. The PC has given him the space he asked for and has helped him free himself of his abuser. The PC is now asking him for his thoughts, his approval, his consent. He sees them as someone to grow and heal with, someone that will respect him and do their best not to hurt him, someone that will communicate things, and fix mistakes should they arise despite all of that. The PC has proven many times over that they care about him and given him reason to actually believe he is more than his body to them. There is no fear anymore.
"I want to see what happens with him." is responded to with "Honestly, so do I. What an adventure for you!" Astarion is excited and enthusiastic! He wants to see his love be in love, see his love receive even more love. Not to quote Halsin here, but Astarion doesn't feel the need to "hoard" the PC all to himself. It has never once been a concern before anyway, but he is now explicitly saying he thinks this is going to be a fun adventure he's interested in watching unfold.
"I care for you a great deal. That's never changing." is responded to with "After all this, I've realised it's all right if it does change. If anything changes." One of my favorite lines, and a sentiment he can also repeat in the bedroom between the fall of the Netherbrain and the epilogue party. Astarion is safe and secure in himself. He knows he will be okay even if his love fades off to something or someone else. He is calm, soft, content. He loves the PC and knows they love him back, but he also knows that sometimes things change. But he now knows that change isn't the end of everything. Change can be good or just neutral. And even if it is bad, Astarion is a survivor. He will be okay, no matter what his new freedom throws at him.
"I don't know what lies ahead, but I trust you, too." is responded to with "You're lucky I'm such an open-minded person." (As does the first one, but this is the only line for this response, so I split them.) Again, being a bit odd that this is somehow not anywhere close to the norm, but we're rolling with it. This little interaction, to me, reads like two people taking their first steps into a great unknown. This is their first step together into the world of polyamory together. Whether the PC was poly before or not, or had experience, this is the first time Astarion gets to experience this with consent. And the PC is even admitting they don't know what this open relationship with Halsin will lead to, but they are putting trust in each other regardless. Trust, the thing that Astarion couldn't afford to give in centuries, and now it is mutual and satisfying. And he's a little silly once more, giving his little "you're lucky" comment. Almost teasing about how great he is. Like, "yes! I can be a good partner, too!" And in a way that doesn't even mention the bedroom.
Third, Astarion's reaction post-Cazador when he ascends:
"It doesn't concern me. You are mine. No one can change that." This time there is no option for the PC to respond. It is a simple "no one can take you from me, Halsin means nothing to me." The proposal doesn't bother him, because the proposal doesn't even touch him. "It doesn't concern me." Astarion who ascends feels he has all the power in the world, and, more than likely, has made the PC his spawn by this point. Even if not, he cannot fathom the thought that anything could take the PC from him, certainly not the carefree druid they met via having to rescue him. He feels that he can give them everything -- a little roll in the hay with the bear of an elf is nothing more than a tiny treat for his partner to be distracted by until bored. They will always come back to him.
And lastly, each ends the same way, just as they start the same way:
"Go right on with Halsin. Far be it from me to hold your hunger against you." He's teasing once more, but he is sincere. He's not taking back what he said or pulling out the rug from a false hope. There was no pushing, no convincing, no persuasion, none of that. Just a conversation between partners communicating about their relationship. And a vampire pun.
(Before moving on, I just wanted to note that there seems to be no way to offer him a polyamorous relationship with Minthara. He simply has the generic "Is it true? You've decided to replace me?" conversation. I would love to know his thoughts on it, but I assume they would be fairly similar to Lae'zel and Shadowheart: he would rather not die!)
Putting It All Together
The TLDR; of this all is: Astarion does not have any hang-ups about polyamory, and even says he basically is poly himself!
He is actually thinking about the idea of a polyamorous relationship with all these people and what that may look like, not just brushing it off at the initial proposal. He may only see the potential for bad because that is basically all he knows (and he doesn't think he has anything much to offer during most of this), but he still thinks about each person individually in such a relationship. He is never looking down on the idea of sharing but rather looking into each person as an individual within such an arrangement. He sees people he cares about getting hurt after they start to see the light in the PC. He sees people becoming angered by the PC being shared with someone like him and harming him. And he sees Halsin, someone who he sees as being experienced and safe.
Astarion cares more deeply than he lets on, while also looking out for his own physical safety, but still has an emotionally intelligent thought process when he is given such a topic. Is he a bit pessimistic when it comes to the origin companions? Maybe, probably. Is he by chance wrong about some of them not working out? Also maybe! Could he be wrong about even Halsin being a safe bet for this first experience of his? Yeah! Anything is possible. He is making a lot of assumptions. But he is making them based on observations and looking deeper than each person's masks. He had to pay attention for survival, and now he is using that to see his friends more deeply.
In a world where large games got the time they needed, and in a world where the inclusion of polyamorous options in those large games were treated with more care and respect, we would actually be able to have true conversations between the partners themselves. They would interact. We as players could explain no parties involved are "lesser" than another when such concerns were raised. All writers involved would understand that the proposed relationship was still romantic and not "just a fling" and treat it accordingly -- not leaving it in a way that makes some players confused as to what they are agreeing to.
But, we don't have that, so we can only get Astarion's assumptions. And to be quite fair to him? He seems to know what he's talking about. He pays attention for his own survival, and, even when he talks about just himself, he has a somewhat surprising emotional intelligence. He doesn't mind the idea of sharing, but he wants to make sure it has a real shot at working out!
Some Extra Bits
The devnote for "What hovel were you living in, that you didn't see this coming back in the grove? Honestly. But that's fine." is simply "affectionately." Teasing his oblivious partner! Cute <3
The devnote for "Go right on with Halsin. Far be it from me to hold your hunger against you." is "genuine about it." That's the tone he's meant to be using: genuinely. No matter where he is at, Halsin is safe to him! He couldn't come up with a reason for why or how Halsin would be harmed or harm him in months of thinking about it.
And a little semi-personal note: This whole thing? Written by someone who does not even consider themself polyamorous. It is okay to say that Astarion's (or anyone's) poly option is just not for you. It is okay to say you don't like how it was handled, especially in the only path you may have gotten in-game. But it is also very easy to sit back, remember this is a game limited by many things, and not start talking about extremely polyphobic and infantilizing things for the sake of "protecting" a fictional man who actually makes himself quite clear multiple times.
Listen, and let him have his newfound autonomy. If you cannot accept a "yes" because you "know what is best for him," then you're merely one step from not accepting a "no" for the same reason.
Ascended Astarion thinks he has nothing to fear and that hes invincible, but then you look at the list of all of the other vampire lords and they dont live any longer than most mortals do.
He not only has a huge target on his back as a new vampire lord but hes also so full of himself that his guard has been lowered so dramatically. If you dump him before he tries to turn you hes SHOOK when you kick him in the nuts. If you're Karlach he cannot COMPREHEND that she could possibly burn him when he tries to turn her and when she does it's a fault with *her* and not *him* because "hes perfect".
Its like when Durge betrays him at the end and a simple stab and shove sends him to his doom. Hes less mad at Durge but rather hes shocked and in denial. Basically a "but you cant do that?" reaction.
I think post game A!A would meet his end FAST. A long living Vampire Lord moves slowly. He plays the long game and has some caution about him. Astarion goes from 0 to 100 and has his eyes set on world domination. Its that cartoonishly evil mindset that's going to get him iced within 10 years at most.
It's just that irony of wanting safety and then your "solution" shortens your life DRAMATICALLY. While with his spawn ending I could see him living multiple lifetimes and that his evenultual death would be pretty random rather than him being a BBEG for a group of heros.
making this a separate post in case people wanted to reblog just the gifs on their own and don't care about the extra fluff. i'm certain this scene has been analyzed to the hells and back by this point, but when i was making this set something really stuck out to me and i wanted to throw my two cents in anyway.
this is the tail end of the mirror scene from act 1, where you catch astarion looking in the mirror and lamenting about not being able to see his reflection or knowing what he looks like anymore. and while that alone is sad enough, it gets SO MUCH WORSE.
if you express genuine interest in his predicament (i.e. asking him if he misses his reflection and what color his eyes were before he was turned), you get to see the mask slip. it's one of the first times in the game that he's not hiding behind his quick wit and silver tongue.
if you tell him you'll be his mirror, you can see the change in his demeanor immediately. his face softens, the cadence of his voice changes; you can literally hear the vulnerability in every word he says. huge props to neil and the rest of larian for making the distinction between these dialogue options, of course. it's the little details that really make moments like these shine.
but there was something else i noticed in the footage i recorded as well that i hadn't picked up on any of my other playthroughs. i've spent a lot of time staring at this man's face, especially while capturing idle animations for gifs and wallpapers, and most of the time it's what you'd expect, with minimal face movement, expressions changing, etc. most companions i record seem to behave the same way, with similar expressions/blinking/eye movement.
but just look at astarion's face here. this feels deliberately unique. he is SO anxious, so worried how you'll perceive him. the rapid blinking, the nervous darting of his eyes… it genuinely breaks my heart.
(tumblr will only let me upload one video per post, but just look at any other idle footage of him and you'll see the difference)
and the second you tell him what he thinks he wants to hear? that he's very attractive? he slips right back into his suave, flirtatious persona, and even praises you for complimenting his looks. even if you eventually ask him if all he wants is shallow praise, he still deflects and isn't completely honest with you.
note that if you choose to take the less compassionate route and simply tell them that he has a "very good face," he will still prompt you to tell him what you see when you look at him, and the delivery of the line is subtly but noticeably different and more guarded. similarly, if you poke a little too much fun at him by calling him old and draw too much attention to his mole, he gets very flustered and ends the conversation immediately. understandable, since he's relied on his appearance for so long, and hearing (even jokingly) that even that might not be something he can use anymore must be at least a little terrifying for him.
so naturally, you might think that by being truthful with him would perhaps net you a better result -- after all, you're telling him what he asked for, what you really see, that you see him as more than just someone to lust after -- but it doesn't. he actually seems a little upset if you choose those dialogue options. in that moment, he wants to know that you find him attractive, because he thinks that's all he's good for. because if you find him attractive, there's a chance that he could seduce you and use you for protection against cazador. i do think he also genuinely wants to know that there's so much more to him than just a pretty face, since that's a big theme of his entire story/romance arc, but that's not at the top of his priority list this early in the game. he's relying purely on instinct. he knows how to respond to people telling him he's attractive. accepting genuine compliments about the person beneath the mask? that's probably not something he's had much (if any) experience with in close to two centuries. he didn't have the luxury of being able to let anyone see who he really was.
all that to say that this interaction is really heartbreaking. he wants to be seen, wants to be understood and possibly loved, but at the same time he still thinks he needs to put on a front to ensure he can keep himself safe. watching him slowly start to unlearn those habits during the course of the game has been one of my favorite things about bg3 and a huge part of what's really endeared astarion to me as a character.
For a while now, I really wanted to write a post about how Astarion loves to talk: how witty and playful he is, always ready with a joke or clever remark. And I wanted it to be a positive post, to be honest. But with Astarion, even such a lighthearted topic is tied to his past, especially the way he was silenced for so long.
Of course, it’s not just Astarion – all the companions enjoy talking, and who wouldn’t, when someone’s genuinely listening? Gale shares his knowledge at every turn, Shadowheart is full of sarcasm, and Lae’zel eagerly educates you on Gith culture. But with Astarion, it feels especially touching: he hides so much behind a mask, and yet he still clearly loves to talk.
Even Gale wasn’t so open to conversations at first.
Astarion: I am enjoying our walks together, aren't you, Gale?
Gale: Uhm... Sure. In silence.
Astarion opens up unexpectedly fast and talks about his past so early on – it is what completely disarmed me when I played for the first time.
He longs to be known, because he longs to be. I’ve touched on this in other posts, so I won’t go deep into it here, but I also think it’s just part of who he is. Talking is how he connects to the world. How he shows he exists.
There are even gameplay moments where his approval shifts based on humor, and he often engages in banter with the player character – as long as they understand when it is appropriate or not.
And it’s not just that he simply wants to talk – he enjoys the exchange, but also appreciates being heard and taken seriously, as someone who matters.
But then, there’s Cazador.
There’s a moment during their confrontation when he mocks Astarion for being talkative in the past. From Astarion’s reaction, I get the sense that this wasn’t a single insult – it was something he used to hear often. That his voice, his chatter, his attempts to express himself were something Cazador used against him.
Cazador Szarr: No, you always had a gift for words.
Cazador Szarr: I fondly remember your empty boasting, your tired jokes, your endless prattle…
Astarion: No! Shut up!
(Side note: I think they’ve changed this moment a little bit, because I clearly remember there was a close-up to your character right after Astarion’s exclamation. It showed them maybe taken aback by the intensity of his reaction. And that exact moment made me feel like they realized at that moment just how hard Astarion was fighting not to fall back into that old dynamic, not to let Cazador’s influence fill his heart again. And how difficult it was to stay grounded for him in that moment. Sorry for being sidetracked!)
And then there’s something else I've only discovered recently. I didn't even encounter that dialogue option in Act 3, where Astarion could tell you about the time he was locked in a tomb for a year. I only found this out from Tumblr. But this conversation I've seen for the first time, and it shook me a bit.
If your character tries to convince Astarion to accept the Astral-Touched tadpole, you can use illithid powers to search his mind for his worst memory that brings him “the purest terror.”
As you pick apart his mind, you discover his worst memory. That which brings him the purest terror.
Complete solitude after being disobedient. Sealed. Buried alive. Voiceless. Will this be forever?
A year of horror. Then the release. He will never disobey again.
The idea of being sealed away in total darkness, not knowing if or when you'll be released, is an unimaginable horror. That moment hit me so hard. But these words – complete solitude, voiceless – stood out the most.
Cazador knew exactly how to punish him. He stripped away not just Astarion’s freedom, but his voice – his ability to reach the outside world, to be acknowledged. That darkness wasn’t just physical – it was silence, helplessness, isolation.
It is just so painful and infuriating to think about how Astarion was treated, how Cazador always tried to silence him. And it makes it even more precious that Astarion can finally speak freely now. It must feel liberating for him.
When you show him even a little care, he tells you everything. He jokes, he flirts, he invites you to compare your companion's blood and the many ways one might choose to die. He stumbles back into the camp after an intoxicating victory to tell you all about it (and this deserves a whole post, hopefully soon!). He never seems to hesitate to voice a controversial opinion, even knowing others might not approve.
He is still guarded, still performing, but I imagine it still meant so much for him if you listen – not tolerate, dismiss or shut him down, but genuinely listen to what he has to say, laugh at his jokes, and pay attention to his words.
There’s another moment that keeps haunting my mind – if you convince him to sleep with you even after his confession in Act 2, this is what he says:
Astarion: It's almost funny. This is all a game to you, isn't it? No matter what I say, it doesn't matter. Not if you get what you want.
It is such a heartbreaking moment. He tried so hard to communicate: it’s not easy to talk about his past, his vulnerabilities, but every time he chooses to say it, because he wants to connect with you. And when he’s ignored like that, it confirms his worst fear – that what he says, what he feels, doesn’t matter. That no one is really listening.
But even in that pain, he finds a new resolve to say no. He learns to protect himself.
I love how much he talks. I really do.
During my second playthrough with a new Tav, Thalyn, I was leaving Astarion at camp (to avoid temptation haha). And honestly, it felt like that game lost so much of its charm for me. I’m biased, of course, but his comments and jokes always provided a much-needed relief during stressful times of the first playthrough and waiting for what Astarion has to say about this or that became something I always anticipated.
Eventually, I missed my first Tav, Roanael, her team, and Astarion so much… I dropped that playthrough at the beginning of Act 3 and went back to rerun the first one (no regrets!)
I just hope that now, in his radiant future, no one will ever silence him again.
And maybe he will learn about another kind of silence – warm and gentle, the one that doesn’t need to be filled. When you can just be with someone and already be heard.