#bene tleilaxu

[tleilaxu-and-the-dunes]

Just a guy named Narim-Fen Ajidica, originally made on September 14, 2024

[raspberrydee]

so… ixians?? bene tleilaxu?? either way i’m excited 👀

[muaddibstyleguide]

lol chairdogs

like dune has dogs that you sit on

i wonder if there are different breeds

like the golden recliner

[muaddibstyleguide]

OK so let's agree that the Bene Gesserit are super-feminists, and the guild is super-menninist, according to the original novels and prequels. looking at the sex-political overtones already in the series, what's applicable to modern sensibilities on sex/gender politics? what can we draw from here? ....... i guess i dont really have a take, but wanted to bring this up for discussion after watching the super nerd-tastic extended (but also missing scenes??) version of movie for the up-teenth time

Whoo! This is some spicy discussion! 

::cracks knuckles::

Okay, let’s dive in. Keep in mind that my analysis is coming mostly from the state of the universe in the original series, not the prequels or sequels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson. Here we go!

Labels like “feminist” and (ugh) “meninist” are slippery in this context, primarily because it seems clear from Frank Herbert’s novels that that the sexual politics of the Imperium are a few centuries behind our own, not more advanced; they’ve reverted not just to a feudal political structure but to the attendant patriarchal gender expectations. Men are the heads of families, succeeded by their sons. Men hold every powerful position, and daughters are bargaining chips in diplomacy (tellingly, Farad’n must renounce his family to marry Ghanima, in order to make it clear that he is not the new Corrino Emperor - the implication being that Ghanima is not under normal circumstances a legitimate heir to the throne). Same-sex attraction, especially between men, is linked by the author to degeneracy, perversion, abuse, and violence - and it seems likely this is how people feel within the universe of the book, as well. We can infer that ideals of feminine behavior haven’t changed from a few hundred years ago from the particular attributes Hwi Noree is designed with to appeal to Leto II. The Bene Gesserit are called “witches” and, while respected, are also feared and treated as repulsive in no small part because they are powerful, mysterious women. 

The Imperium’s attitudes and norms regarding gender are not ours, but they’re recognizable. As such, it’s not clear an organization like the Spacing Guild is more devoted to patriarchy than any other organization in the Imperium - it seems like there are few if any powerful women within the Guild because there are few powerful women in official positions outside of the Bene Gesserit generally. In other words: it may just be another male dominated organization in a male dominated universe. 

The Bene Gesserit are interesting in this discussion in that it’s not clear they’re meaningfully “feminist” in any way we’d recognize, except maybe that they’re powerful women. They’re gender essentialists, they hate birth control and assisted pregnancy, they’re rigidly hierarchical and seek to control the lives and choices of their adherents, they’re megalomaniacal, they often use their sexuality to enslave men, they manipulate “primitive” cultures, and they engage in eugenics with the ultimate goal of creating a super powerful man they can use for the purpose of furthering their secret control of society. (Sure, they want to control that man, but it seems relevant to the discussion.) It doesn’t seem like a goal of theirs is the advancement and societal equality of women; instead, they seem content to use the patriarchal systems of the status quo to their ends.

As for other organizations: in Dune Messiah it almost seems as if the Bene Tleilaxu are being set up deliberately as a male organization almost in opposition to the Bene Gesserit, but this focus seems to shift as Herbert’s idea of what the Tleilaxu even are seems to shift. (It seems relevant that the entire power of the Bene Tleilaxu rests in using women’s bodies but eliminating their sentience, while the Bene Gesserit have never done anything so horrific to male bodies.) The Fish Speakers and Leto’s musings on why they make a better army are really interesting while also managing to be super sexist! 

For better or worse, Herbert’s novels place an enormous importance on biological gender. While characters within the novels are not always subject to the biases and constraints of the society in which they live - the Fish Speakers, the Bene Gesserit, Lady Jessica’s defiance of her order - in many ways the outlines and limits of their destiny and abilities are determined by the bodies they’re born with. This is even true to some extent for the Kwisatz Haderach’s offspring. (It’s true that there are hints of feminine influence on a number of male characters, and this is welcome.)

While I’m not sure the novels’ gender politics hold up, I will say I’ve always admired the idea that the Kwisatz Haderach was a centuries old breeding project meant to fuse the essences of the masculine and the feminine. I also think, in the Bene Tleilaxu, we see a dangerous extreme in the dismissal of womens’ personhood in favor of a focus on their reproductive capabilities. 

Oh, here’s something: the Bene Gesserit represent, for me, a fascinating look at an organization created by and populated entirely by women for the express purpose of subverting and influencing a society that would otherwise deny them power and autonomy. In other words, in order to become respected equals, they had to build something entirely new. So they did.

I’m curious: what about watching the extended edition made you ponder this topic?