NOBODY KNOWS HOW THEY'RE GOING TO REACT TO 'SUCCESS'. THE DOWNFALL OF SEASON 3. THE BEAR
Going to be brief. I'M STILL STUNNED AT HOW EASILY IT HAPPENED
The Bear story telling was good. They captured the audience
Then the awards and the acclaim started
It made movie stars out of the leads and supporting actors
But what did it do to the show runner?
I don't know EXACTLY and I don't presume to know.
But what I noticed was that he let Joanna his co lead writer and co show runner I think, leave to go work on Hacks (when Joanna wrote an episode of hacks you could tell, because it was really good)
She was a voice in interviews that gave character credibility
That was a BIG big gap that OTHERS saw as an opening
And yes Christopher Storer has his own mind but he's always been vocal about aspects of himself that would make him vulnerable
And some executive producers flooded in with their ideas and friends and friends of friends.
It seemed like an epic self promotion, money and perks grab (ensuring to hang out with the lead of the show to legitimize themselves)
It flooded the mood and the pace of the writing
CharacterS we loved, who SEEMED small to THEM got pushed way back
They had free reign.
They STRUTTED in interviews with an air of self importance and made it known they were collaborators with the show runners to 'bring the funny' in the script
The series 3 premier was a huge production.
And JUST note, that in life, it always happens like this.
As soon as you see that STRUT and air of self importance, a big change is going to come.
And it came swiftly
DISNEY EXECS thankfully got in there and CLEANED house.
Notice all who used to be around and prominent in those spaces are hardly seen that much anymore
They're trying to get back on track. Season 3 wasn't it and season 4 collateral damage
So season 5 HAS to be where they restore order or else that's it
So I'm hanging in there till season 5. BECAUSE I know there's supposed to be something coming. I care about THAT part.
This is in regard to this post, and became a monster so I’m putting it in a new post to save the other thread’s op.
Yes, I will agree with part of this version of your post:
There is no reason Catra should have remained as static as she did throughout canon; other media has provided excellent templates on how it could have been achieved.
But I am going to fiercely argue against the mentality fueling your reasons why.
This rant got long, so there’s going to be a cut.
It’s also stream of consciousness, so please bear with me.
@1023sstuff or anyone else willing to ask for clarifications of points, please do.
I’m not going to hold a single person responsible for Season 5 making air in the state it did, because television is never made in a vacuum by one single individual.
But here’s someone I’d put more blame about SPoP reaching air in the state it did instead of Nate.
(we’re talking single digits of percentage, but it’s still more)
Chuck Austen was co-showrunner on SPoP from season 2 onwards, according to Wikipedia.
He was in his late 50s when he started work on SPoP for season 2, and had two other notable television projects under his belt at that time, including being one of the producers for Season 1 of Steven Universe.
Nate, on the other hand, was not prepared for being a showrunner.
Having read his Memoir “The Fire Never Goes Out” makes that abundantly clear, with the tiny hints he let himself be honest about.
And the lack of honesty was, in my interpretation, entirely fueled by his feelings of guilt and imposter syndrome, feeling obligated to fulfill the giant dreams of catching lightning in a bottle that had been placed on him, from a job offer that I’m sure everyone was telling him he was insane to reject.
I fully expect Dreamworks didn’t want Nate to make the next Steven Universe, by the way.
I think they wanted him to make the next My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic.
Nate was not prepared for that.
Let alone at that time of his own self-healing and understanding.
Remember: this is before he transitioned, and if I was reading the timeline of the memoir correctly he didn’t get his bipolar disorder diagnosis until part way through SPoP.
Nate, by all evidence I have, was not in a position to make a healthy depiction of recovery from abuse.
Because he, himself, was still learning what recovery meant for him.
This is not to say I 100% blindly believe Catra’s “on a silver platter, undergo extreme trauma get redemption for free” arc wasn’t wish fulfillment for Nate.
Because I don’t know him.
But I also wouldn’t be surprised if people who do know him do believe that.
Nevertheless…
That’s the story of one person, swimming in trauma, and that last part I can say with full confidence.
That explains some of Catra’s arc, and a fair bit of the snowball that came afterwards.
But that does not explain Season 5 making it to air.
Someone.
Should.
Have stopped this.
Someone should have supported Nate, helping ease the burden of being showrunner.
I don’t know if no one did, although Chuck Austen coming on board strongly suggests people at Dreamworks did try.
I do not know how much Chuck knew of Nate’s fears regarding the show (which I am extrapolating here, and I could be wrong), let alone how much he did do to help Nate.
I am not blaming Chuck for not helping Nate in a manner I want, because I don’t know what went on and besides Chuck isn’t a therapist and doesn’t deserve to be put in that position.
I strongly, strongly suspect people with money wanted to ride the Catra train for clout, and their dollars won over the dollars of people who didn’t want a huge lesbian romance in a cartoon on their resume.
And I suspect those people, fueled by past successes such as Avatar and Steven Universe and MLP: FiM pushed for Nate to be able to achieve his vision.
And people who knew better should have stopped that.
And it didn’t happen.
And I don’t know who to blame, because I was not there.
I don’t even blame Chuck, I repeat in all honesty, because I can’t see how a guy of his background could have made a difference.
But I’d still place the showrunner with 25+ more years of life experience and any experience in creating television as more (single digits of percentage) responsible for Season 5 making it to air in the state it was than the under 30 year old uncloseted trans man who was mere years into treatment for bipolar disorder.
I want a world where someone other than Nate was responsible for crafting the timeline and events of Catra’s redemption arc.
But I do not fucking blame Nate for us living in this one as though it was his intention all along.
Now, if Nate still thinks Season 5 was acceptable in 2040 as a 50 year old, then I’ll had different opinions.
The issue for both writers and creators is they actually have to be vague or misleading when talking about their content to not spoil it. If we take A:TLA as an example. If they were to come out with "Aang and Katara are end game" they would be severely backhanded by Nickelodeon and risk punishments from the big name company. I hate shipping wars even while working in the industry but it's hard for us to shut them down without risking our lively hood. So we have to mislead to keep our jobs.
(Anon, I’m really sorry that this is getting dumped on you, but this is an issue I’ve been thinking about for a while, so I kinda went off, oopsss…)
I’m actually fully aware of non-disclosure agreements and the policy behind limiting information that is released to fans, so while I definitely appreciate the sentiment and understand that things are really difficult for the studios and “little guys” on any production team, I absolutely draw the line at buying the idea that fans need to be deliberately misled in order to protect show writers and staff.
There’s a right way and a wrong way to interact with fans and field shipping questions, and the fact that so many shows, book series, and other forms of media exist out there without experiencing the major problems that have affected shows like A:TLA and Voltron is proof that some productions manage fan and media relations very well and others definitely don’t. Aggressive shipping wars and fan behavior bad enough to attract mainstream media attention aren’t the standard experience of most production teams, so when they occur, it is almost always at least in part because of poor management of public relations on the creators’ end.
You won’t see me defending “fans” who cross the line and actually harass or send death threats to each other or any member of a production team, obviously not, but in today’s media environment, it’s a huge trend to make producers and writers out to be victims of their fandoms, whose questions and requests are treated like invasions of privacy and/or infringements on the writers’ creative freedom that must be actively and constantly defended against, a careful balancing act where the staff must constantly avoid ever giving away too much while the rabid fandom accosts them with an unstoppable hoard of demands…
But this is an illusion deliberately fabricated by some production teams to manipulate fan interest.
Media teams act like purposefully misleading audiences is a necessity because fans ask such invasive questions, oh what can we do, they won’t leave us alone about endgame ships! But this is smokescreen that ignores one basic truth: at the end of the day, creators and production teams (should, if well-managed at least) get to choose which questions get answered and which don’t.
Answering questions on social media or in a professional interview? Screen them in advance. Don’t answer questions that require dishonest answers.
Voice actors or writers going out to a convention? Give them strict rules for what they can and can’t hint at. Hell, even answering completely unscreened questions at cons? “I’m sorry, I can’t answer that without spoiling the story” is always a viable response.
A basic “We don’t answer questions about shipping” policy is, in fact, something that production teams also absolutely have the power to choose!
Even as you yourself note, crew members typically have professional social media accounts and can control when and how those accounts get used–they can choose not to respond to fan questions at any time.
Ergo, the choice to offer misleading answers to fans, particularly about relationships, is just that: a deliberate choice.
What’s really going on here is this: Most production teams can’t completely ignore fan questions and still keep fans hyped about their shows. Most creators and teams want and need to interact with and drops hints for their fans to stir up interest, keep people excited during show downtime, or just in general get people talking and speculating about their works. The more strung-along the fans are, the more tension, anticipation, and speculation teams’ provoke, the more active a show’s fandom becomes–and therefore the more a show profits. A quiet, inactive fandom does not attract additional viewership by word-of-mouth, does not move merchandise, and does not prevent loss of viewership over extended waits between seasons.
In short, creators and production teams actively profit from “stirring the pot,” from causing some tension and provoking anticipation/excitement in their fans. By dropping hints and teasers of what’s to come, by answering fan questions that expand on the series’ world or characters, the creators give fans more to talk about–and therefore can anticipate more talking about their show in general.
“Buzz” is money in the bank.
And production teams have discovered that nothing provokes buzz among online fans as quickly and productively as shipping. Targeting relationship-hungry fans (typically female fans, by the way) and stringing them along with hints, teasers, and red herrings about endgame ships is absolutely a profit-producing venture for show writers and teams nowadays. Getting ship-happy fans all excited about potential romances in your show, so much that they’re out there writing online manifestos, creating fanworks for your shows’ characters, talking to all their friends about it? #DOLLARSIGNSSSSS. Creators, both manipulatively and non-maliciously, actively capitalize on networks of online fans, especially fanwork creators like fanfic authors and artists (both of whom often focus on relationship-related material) to generate additional interest in their shows and therefore produce greater revenue in the long-term.
It’s basic logic: tease your fans -> generate more buzz about your show -> attract more attention -> profit.
(I don’t mean to say that creators are only ever thinking about making money, obviously–of course they naturally want to interact with fans because doing so is intrinsically rewarding and fun. Naturally creators are excited and want to interact with their fans! But that doesn’t mean that it isn’t ALSO a very specific, very obvious way to increase the popularity of one’s work.)
So sure, it’s all well and good to say “We can’t tell you the truth because we can’t spoil the show!” but let’s not act like that’s the only reason writers and show staff drop vague and misleading answers on their fans.
Teased fans, anticipatory fans, hopeful fans, hyped-up fans, obsessed fans… These are the “whales” of viewership, the ones who flood your show’s convention panels, buy your show’s merchandise, haunt the media for even the tiniest tidbits of new info on your work… These are the kinds of people who sit down and force everyone they know to watch your show too. They’re exactly the kind of fans you want to court and keep the attention of. And production teams know that they can keep and inflame the attention of these fans, in large part, by hinting at exactly the things those particular fans want to hear–whether or not they ever intend to fulfill on the things they’re hinting at.
By carefully sprinkling out hints–even and often intentionally misleading hints!–creators increase the tension and interest among fans to deliberately capitalize on their energy, investment, and willingness to continually, obsessively talk about the show.
Say it with me guys:
Shipping wars are money-makers.
It’s not just a matter of keeping secrets to protect the little guys. It’s a matter of keeping secrets and misleading fans intentionally to produce more revenue.
Creators don’t have a vested interest in being honest and open with their fans because they actively benefit from secret-keeping and misinformation.
And you know what?
I actually think that’s fine. I can’t even imagine a world in which every writing team came forward and said “Here are spoilers for everything and every relationship in our story, so you guys don’t have to fight over them!” Obviously the entire concept of spoilers exists for a reason–most people don’t WANT to know every twist, turn, and relationship in a story in advance. We LIKE being teased, we like hunting for hints, and we even like being strung-along as we get to experience the anticipation of satisfying plot twists still to come.
No one is asking for a full plot synopsis in advance.
But there IS a right and wrong way to drop hints for fans, and some obviously right and wrong choices to make, especially when creators become aware that their fandoms are becoming aggressive and hostile. Creators absolutely have the power to make bad situations in their fandoms much, much worse, and a blanket “It’s not our fault; we had to be misleading!” is nothing more than a way of passing the buck and pretending like production teams don’t have a major hand in setting the tone for their fandoms overall.
Of course fans are accountable for any of their own bad behavior, but poor public and media relations absolutely have the power to poison fandoms and incite aggression. When you deliberately yell “Fire!” in a theatre, you can’t claim you’re not responsible for the chaos that follows. When you bring up politics at a family dinner, you can’t act like the argument that follows wasn’t your fault.
The intentionally “vague and misleading” things creators say have profound impacts on their fandoms, and therefore creators and production teams have a responsibility to interact with their fans in a professional and mindful manner.
Of course you want to tease and trick a little! But it’s remarkably easy to do so in a non-damaging manner:
Instead of:
“Character A might end up with Character B OR Character C!” (obviously inflammatory)
It would be perfectly reasonable to answer with:
“Character A is going to have a romantic arc by the end, but let’s just enjoy that story line as it comes!” (teases and excites fans without fueling conflict between fan groups)
Instead of:
Character A and Character B are totally compatible! (obvious ship tease)
Say:
We planned for all our characters to be compatible with each other to build interesting dynamics between everyone. (redirects attention toward your story’s overall goal without lowering any shippers’ hopes)
Instead of:
Oh I can’t tell you too much, but I can tell you Character A and Character B are going to have a lot of ~mEaNiNgFuL~ interactions in the future! (obvious bait)
Say:
We’re really excited about where our characters are going in the future, especially [insert company approved spoiler-ish tidbit here]! (gives fans something new and exciting to talk about without leaving them feeling like they’ve been tricked)
Get explicitly asked about a ship by a fan and for some reason absolutely have to give an answer? Saying “We can’t spoil any romances that might or might not happen, but we wrote the story the way we thought was best, so hopefully you’ll enjoy where it goes!” gives shippers hope without making anyone feel like they were promised something that was never going to happen.
And good lord, have you discovered there’s a serious dispute brewing between groups of your fans? Uh… Have you tried not giving answers that deliberately favor one ship in one interview and then conflicting answers that favor the other ship in another interview, leaving your fans confused about your stance? Have you tried uhhh… redirecting fans to your plot or world-building and getting them hyped about things you’re actually planning to include in the show instead of relationships you never intended to make good on? Have you tried uhhh… maybe just NOT dumping fans from the frying pan into the fire by commenting further on ships you already know are causing tension?
There are plenty of ways for production teams to be vague and avoid spoilers without disproportionately raising fan expectations and contributing to conflicts between fan groups. The copious companies who manage popular shows without their fandoms dissolving into public death threats and toxicity so notorious that people who don’t even watch the show know about it are perfect proof. Some creators and production teams are just really, really fucking bad at PR, and that’s a problem! That’s a problem that contributes to serious and sometimes even literally dangerous issues among fans. If you’re in the industry, as you claim, that’s something you should and need to be aware of and take responsibility for.
Like, I’m not in even in PR, but it doesn’t take a degree in communications to figure out that there’s a very obvious line between the type of teasing that’s going to contribute to a productive, positive fan environment and the type of baiting and misleading that’s going to foster divisions and frustrations among your fans.
Of course it’s not always the creators’ or team’s fault when a ship war starts! These things can’t always be predicted and we’re all just human. People slip up and blunder when interacting with others all the time. Mistakes happen. But when the creators actively contribute to a ship war, fan the flames, encourage both sides, and either deliberately or carelessly hype up fan expectations they know they have no intention of fulfilling (as was the case with both A:TLA and Voltron), they’re increasing and encouraging the hostile environment in their fandoms–sometimes very intentionally to reap profits off obsessed fans.
So like, I get it? No one is asking for creators to be less vague or drop all red herrings. No one wants the entire story spoiled in advance.
But as a viewer, I do expect creators and production teams to demonstrate professionalism in their responses to both other media and directly to fans. I expect them to respect their viewers and to tease their fans in a genuine, responsible way that doesn’t promote conflict or make implied promises that will never be kept simply to turn a profit off of hopeful fans.
Most importantly, I expect creators and production teams to be aware of the impacts their words and answers have on fans, and to be accountable for those words and answers. If creators choose to interact with fans, they need to do so in a way that isn’t actively harmful. That should be pretty freaking obvious to everyone involved.
Will PR blunders and social media mistakes happen? Of course, always.
But is kicking a hornets’ nest–say, teasing that ship you know is never going to happen, when you’ve heard through the grapevine your fans are already divided about it–ever really a mistake?
No sell, buddy.
tl;dr: Expecting professionals to handle PR… you know… professionally isn’t outrageous.
