please pass on this info within the next 10 days BEFORE Star Rail 2.1 because when the version starts everyone will talk over this with their OWN character issues and own impressions from the game.
I’ve explained this about 10 times before getting censored on 3 subreddits and ignored about 5 times. I’m used to it.
Honkai: Star Rail’s new region, Penacony, has served to erase black people, black history, and black influence from the Jazz Age.
I’m rather used to this getting swept under the rug with their other games, Honkai Impact 3rd, and Genshin Impact, but given the amount of money they had been shilling for this game I expected a fresh start. Sooo as a black dude myself I guess it’s been easier to pick up on microagressions plus I’m autistic so my brain runs through things for details well(I’m also a gay dude desperate for representation so yeah I pick up on EVERYTHING).
The Jazz Age itself was a unique period in American History with the rise of prohibition of alcohol and black families celebrating their newfound freedom post slavery and slowly attempting to integrate into a White dominated American society. During this period, African-Americans from New Orleans cultivated the musical style we now know as Jazz.
Black jazz musicians were the main reason the Jazz Age reached worldwide popularity and Jazz broke out all over America. To sum this up, Black people making the most of their struggles in this time period are responsible for the Jazz Age.
Now it goes without saying that HYV, no matter how much they try to humanize themselves and make the people at the top look innocent, have more or less never been even remotely kind about positive representation of black and brown people in their games.
we sadly know there are no black characters in Penacony. there was NO attempt to pay tribute to African-Americans and their soul in the birth of Jazz. They just stole it to portray magical fantasy white angels devils and robots.
So, they’re spending all this money on advertising with LA events, buying the Vegas Sphere at one point, giving players gratuitous free pulls, making their anniversary into a party, to obfuscate their appropriation and theft of black history.
i’m tired and I know a lot of fans dont have a reason to get invested in the problems of their big fixation or what their favorite game company is doing wrong, you can help if you continue asking them at every new corner, every new promotion, every new character,
Why? Why not depict any black characters in this Jazz fantasy? Why not let us have this one thing? Why release this faux Jazz area to speak over black history month? Why won’t you add Black characters? Why?
A look at the past & future of Honkai design: Simplicity vs. Complexity (Part 1)
Link to the YouTube channel of the person whose thumbnail I yoinked off of Google Images for this; it was the best image of the new Hyperion that I could easily find which is why I used it for this.
TL;DR:
Original Honkai Impact 3rd designs tended towards large, simply shapes that gave battlesuits (and other stuff) a strong "mecha" vibe. Many newer designs are trending towards more complex designs that do away with these simple and recognizable shapes, instead using more overlapping textures and ornamentation to create detail. Some designs balance the two, using large and relatively simple shapes that still carry enough detail to stand out as newer while still keeping the original vibes.
Because of this, I think there's gonna be a very clear visual split between Part 1 designs and the APHO+Part 2 designs because of this split between simplicity & complexity, and some Part 1 designs feel off because they stray too far from the original design motifs, making them feel out of place even if they're still good designs on their own.
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I've been thinking a lot about the design philosophy of Honkai Impact 3rd for quite a while now. As someone interested in concept art and illustration and who's played video games for more than 3/4ths of their whole lifespan.
And obviously I'm not alone in this, given how often I've seen discussion of Honkai's character design. Whether it was the march of the pastel battlesuits or the techwear of the part 2 cast or the upcoming Garuda Fu Hua battlesuit, many people have had many opinions both positive and negative.
But I've wanted to do a sort of "deep-dive" for a while now, because I think HI3rd is a really interesting case where we can see the co-existence of (sometimes drastically) different designs made years apart from one another. It's normal for the style of a franchise to grow and change with time- my personal example is Halo, with obvious differences between Halo CE, Halo 3, and Halo 4 in mind. But typically that has been done over the release of different games over many years, not so much in consecutive releases within the same game. HI3rd's not alone in this regard, of course :)
I don't want to label anything as "bad" or "good". I can like or dislike something, and that's my personal opinion. Of course I COULD try to label designs as bad or good, but I'd want to back that up with serious analysis and get the opinions of other players, and that's way too much effort for a reddit post. Instead, I want to present some different designs in Honkai and share my thoughts, so others can feel free to agree, disagree, elaborate, etc. More of a matter of casual discussion rather than trying to present some solid theory, I guess you could say?
What I will say is I intend to label designs based on whether (or how) they fit into HI3rd's aesthetic(s), so that's the main point- not so much whether an individual design is good or not.
To start with, I'd like to talk about the simplicity vs. complexity of Honkai designs because I personally feel like this is the biggest problem I have with HI3rd, outside of story issues that is. Not because of designs being "good" or "bad", but because I feel like Mihoyo has been moving towards a new design philosophy that's different from what I loved most about HI3rd when I first started.
I opened with the comparison of Hyperion because I think it's a perfect example of this concept, and if we can understand what the difference is with Hyperion then I think it'd be more apparent with battlesuits as well. I also have another image that highlights some of the biggest differences between the two models:
I had mixed feelings about the reveal of the "new and upgraded" Hyperion during the moon arc. It's a neat design I'll admit, but I felt like it deviated a lot from the original Hyperion, not as a difference in fidelity and detail but rather as a difference in the fundamental design of the ship.
What I like so much about the original Hyperion is, as you might have guessed by now: its simplicity. Hyperion was comprised of much larger, blockier shapes with more clear silhouettes. It's actually the same reason I love the design of Halo's UNSC frigates, funnily enough. I'm a huge sci-fi fan and I absolutely adore spacecraft and vehicle design, so I really appreciated the design of Hyperion cause to me it felt very original.
The new Hyperion retains most of the same characteristics, and it's still recognizable as a version of Hyperion. But it bothers me just how much the design was changed. Many of the simple shapes of the design were broken up into smaller parts or almost totally changed, like the cannon going from a sleek polygonal barrel to a spikey... thing.
To me, it feels like Hyperion was redesigned with the idea of trying to make it more "futuristic" or "tech-y", or perhaps it was even designed with some retro anime motifs in mind like the Space Battleship Yamato. But it seems as though this was done by adding many objects that broke up the original silhouette, as well as inventing lots of new detail instead of adding details to complement what was already there. The shape of the winglets was greatly changed; the vent-like structures were totally changed; the barrel was completely changed; most noticeably, the bridge was drastically changed.
The new Hyperion model is technically "better" in terms of fidelity and the amount of detail it has, no doubt about it. But I think changing the fundamental shapes of Hyperion so much really hurts the charm of the original design, to the point that I was actually quite disappointed to see that Mihoyo used the new Hyperion design in the CG of the Captainverse Hyperion farm event. It seems as though Mihoyo wants to consider this as the new default impression of Hyperion, and not a special one-off thing from the moon arc.
I think this can be seen across other aspects of the game, too. In general Mihoyo has moved away from simple designs and towards complex designs, and I think there's been a lot of hits and a lot of misses with this.
For instance, I'd like to compare the three Herrscher Kiana battlesuits: HoV, HoFS, and HoFi.
There's a clear trend of an increase in complexity across the three battlesuits. HoV's design uses fewer and larger shapes, HoFS adds more and smaller shapes, and then HoFi is almost totally devoid of any large clear shapes.
To me, this is what distinguishes a battlesuit that "feels like Honkai" from one that doesn't.
Everyone starts the game in Chapter 1, and most long-time players have spent more time with older battlesuits than newer ones simply because they were playing the game before these newer battlesuits were even released. I think it's safe to say that even though HoFi is the grand "Kiana in her greatest form" battlesuit, most players will still have seen HoV's design more often because of the years that it's been around, and its prevalence in story content.
Most of those older designs were rooted more heavily in the mecha vibes early Honkai had. For instance, even though HoV is obviously not wearing a mecha battlesuit, the large blocky shapes are still reminiscent of armor, two examples being the large frames on her wings and the large white pad-things(?) on her sides. There's other obvious cases like White Comet being a skin-tight battlesuit which used glowy energy bits for its attacks, but I use the example of HoV because it shows that HI3rd was fully capable of creating battlesuits within the mecha theme without being limited to literal "mecha" designs. HoV's battlesuit is far from mecha in its nature, yet still fits perfectly with that aesthetic.
HoFi has pretty much none of that, though. It's a pretty design for sure, but it's also nearly completely divorced from that original aesthetic. There's few easily-recognizable shapes on her design, with the (very little) clothing she wears being almost entirely detail and ornamentation. It definitely fits the "Princess Kiana" or "Goddess Kiana" theme in isolation, but I don't think it delivers on that theme in the context of Honkai Impact 3rd.
Yet look at HoFS. HoFS definitely has more detail than HoV. Yet there are still lots of large blank areas that define clear forms; for instance, the armor on HoFS' waist. It's reminiscent of that of HoV while still adding more detail. This gives that same effect of a slight mecha vibe. It's still an appealing design and it still feels more modern than HoV, but it also manages to retain much of the same design language.
That being said, I have to admit I ADORE the Honkai wings that HoFi has, though I wish they were a little higher in the air. That's one thing that I think Mihoyo absolutely nailed with HoFi, and I wish more of that aesthetic was kept in the rest of her design.
What's also interesting is that (in my opinion) neither of the other two main Herrscher Trio designs suffer from this. For instance, consider Mei's battlesuits:
I've included Lighting Empress as a reminder that old =/= good. I'd like to make it clear that just because it's an "original" battlesuit doesn't mean it's a good one. I said before that I didn't want to label stuff as good or bad but this is a clear exception and I hope y'all can understand why, lol
We can certainly argue about whether HoO Mei's design really fits the image of Raiden Mei. It's a vast departure from her other battlesuits when it comes to her palette, for better or for worse. I didn't like it at first but it has grown on me, and I think part of that is because of that concept of simplicity vs. complexity.
HoO has way, way more detail than the other two Herrscher Mei battlesuits, no doubt about it. But it also retains many large and recognizable shapes. Nothing on this battlesuit is bulky like HoT or other older battlesuits, but it still gives off the feeling of being armor despite being so thin. Much of the detail is created not by overlapping layers of ornamentation and texture, but rather by using intricate shapes with clear silhouettes and light detail inside that outline.
And HoTr is obviously a mecha design, so I don't think we need to elaborate on that one :)
The point is that it's absolutely possible to make detailed and beautiful battlesuits without getting rid of the original shape language that HI3rd was built on. HoFS is a bit dated now but still much newer than HoV, yet it keeps the vibes. HoO is also far newer, yet it still fits the theme of battlesuit. HoFi, though... not so much.
Finally, I want to talk about the elephant in the room: the Part 2 character designs.
Once again, here's the link to the YouTube video by Matt Is Playing, where I pulled this image from!
Much like HoFi, there's very little trace of the OG Honkai mecha aesthetic in these battlesuits. It's not to say that they are inherently bad because of that* , but it doesn't quite feel like "Honkai Impact 3rd".
*except Dream Seeker, I'm sorry but what the heck is going on there???
But the thing is that this design philosophy isn't even new. In fact, it's years old by now... because we see this in APHO.
For a long time now, APHO has had battlesuits that tip-toe on the very edge of the original Honkai aesthetic. So the designs of Part 2 aren't actually some new and drastic shift in Mihoyo's design philosophy- rather, it's reinforcing a design philosophy that was introduced with APHO.
These new characters all feel out of place if we compare them to the original battlesuits. They don't use the same simple forms, instead using dense and overlapping details. But if we compare them to the APHO cast, they fit right in. We can argue about the merits of the new character designs in other terms, but I think these discussions have to keep in mind this context.
I'd say the APHO designs work well in the setting of APHO because they're following the same aesthetic. As we enter Part 2 and once we see more of the story and setting of Part 2, it's very possible that these new character designs will feel more natural and more like "Honkai Impact 3rd".
But it's a different Honkai Impact 3rd.
This is why I think the idea of "simplicity vs. complexity" is so important to understanding Honkai Impact 3rd's designs. I think Mihoyo might be trying to emphasize two different phases of Honkai through this design philosophy. These are going to be two very different halves to the same game, with the designs of Part 2 possibly becoming as distant from Part 1's designs as Part 1 is from HSR.
You have the OG mecha action vibes from the good ole St. Freya days, and we have the sleek tech-wear of the era of exploring Mars, world-hopping in the Sea of Quanta, and fighting literal aliens.
For better or for worse? Only time will tell.
As a bonus, I'd like to include some extra comparisons, though I won't be adding any more analysis. It's more about having extra examples to keep in mind. Also, I think these ideas can apply to enemies and weapons as well, but that's a larger discussion I'm not yet ready for so that will come in a follow-up later on!
A long-ass testimonial as a player of Honkai: Star Rail. please read if you have the time. I wish all honkai content creators would bear to understand this
goin through exhaustion rn but thats just normal and not something id complain about. Anyways when this game released in summer 2023, I was just as hyped as everybody else. I had started playing since the last closed beta where I had gotten bailu and mained qingque cuz she felt so real for being lazy on the job plus i LOVED playing hard and winning big.
I had a fun time later when the game ACTUALLY did release though I had to say goodbye to my bailu who I replaced with Clara and mained Seele who I knew from playing Honkai Impact for quite a while. I felt like i fit in with every other HI3/HSR player, running high spd seele with bronya and taking my silver wolf to every Simulated Universe fight, and laughing about getting rolled by the blue gorilla that hates when people use skills. I laughed at the launch memes everyone else was laughing at and usually was the first person to beat new bosses fights and stories when they came out.
I've realized that just because you think you fit in with people, doesn't mean they'll act like you do fit. They watch you trip, and struggle, and when the thing you like starts slinging venom at you, they let you fall. They laugh when you get hurt and protect what hurt you.
Now when I started this game, as a black guy I was aware dumb, racist things were gonna pop up, as we know with genshin impact with the whole ass glass bottle floating around calling desert explorers/fighters "sand-lickers", and Honkai Impact's one black character being one who hates her dark skin and bleaches it consistently with makeup. She's also the only character to never get special outfit effects.
Naturally, I did not bat an eye at the dark skin lightning guy having the SHACKLE BREAKER and SWIFT HARVEST SKILLS.
as we may know im a lore guy who thinks a lot. there is no "character reference" or wordplay that holds up here. This is dumb associations made to dark skinned individuals for doing slave work(harvesting.) and being held in chains(shackle). Anyways somehow even though this eluded me, I found it odd that the one dark skinned character in the roster was the bad one. People would make all kinds of excuses but never show anything concrete. Arlan himself is lacking the skill point mechanic which literally bars him from an entire simulated universe path.
see my notes on him here . Point is this got worse as time went on, to a point where this fan that was still crazy hyped after the Xianzhou arc hype was watching every promotional video for the next region. Penacony, and got hit with the revelation that their next region was going to be based on the Jazz Age. Jazz is known throughout the world as one of the most widely celebrated creations of black people for the rest of the world, and the soul of Jazz, Funk, Pop, and many other types of music rest in black history, black stories, and black emotions. I'd rather not revisit the complete amalgation of this soul that is that dumb fucking region with the slave master and the incel-heaven slur slinger invading the quantum meta, but I should still add that the story is an incredibly half-assed take at introducing evil concepts like slavery and trying to add nuance to them. I played through so many routes where there was some implication of slavery benefitting a future society, and there was this one awful point i had to check out at where the player uses CLOCKWORK TO FIX THE MIND OF A DISCONTENT FREED SLAVE SO THEY SEEK THEIR MASTER AGAIN. There is no "makes sense in context" or "theres lore behind this" because that should be taken at face value.
Their disgusting apparition of the Jazz Age should not be justified and glorified the way it is today. I believe in protecting the history of those who paved the way for me and I also would like to believe that I shouldn't have to fight to not deal with mockery within games or shows I enjoy.
This whole experience I've had has tainted this game for me. I was listening through my fighting game playlist earlier and WHITE NIGHT came on. The first time I had heard it I thought it was amazing and wanted to make a cover of it and enter the 2024 fan art contest. But when I heard it for the most recent time, I wanted to vomit. This 'fun party' song was empty and felt like it was slinging lies of joy and entropy in my face. I couldn't celebrate the media that glorified excusing my people from society. And I really don't get WHY everyone else does.
As somebody whose played a lot of mainstream games I've seen a crowd that acts woke to social issues and seemed to stand up in the face of injustice. I don't KNOW any internet culture so i thought activist = good person.
recently ive seen and interacted with a lot of "activists" that were willing to watch this billion dollar company perpetuate racism, stereotypes and appropriation. This is usually because the company had given them a "complex" png with "emotions" that was "coded" to be made for them. and their character's emotions outrank real people's emotions in their interactions. these activists were more likely to listen to the billion dollar company's machinations of a white girl fairy princess or whatever their latest obsession was, than real people.
its been tiring and its been sickening. excuse me for being too real for a second but I AM SICK AND TIRED OF MENTALLY ILL WHITE PEOPLE ONLINE TELLING ME RACISM IS A CHARACTER TRAIT OR SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE RIGHT, OR SOMETHING THAT SPICES UP A NARRATIVE. SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP. what if we had characters that were abusers, huh? or pedophiles? and what if those characters never had to deal with consequences of their actions? and what if everybody was worshipping the writing team making these hero abusers, and hero pedophiles? would it suddenly make sense then?
can people stop hyping this awful shit up? Pick up a different game or something. stain their brand. Have an audience for your star rail content? can you draw like trees or something,..... instead? this is not a good game and it does not do good things. The developers are incels with a large cult following. They are not good people, they say the right things. stop feeding them. do something else. pick something else up. play something else. I know people may find their games and content dear to yall but if racism is worse to you than losing a game, boycott these rich, selfish snakes.
Compliation of HYV's disparagments towards Black and Brown people in Honkai Star Rail
Let me be clear I'm no big hater of this game, but as a Black dude who has continously tried to enjoy and immerse myself in it, I've grown rather tired of its success and reach with the shamelessness and unnecessary bigotry of the developers.
As such I’ve compiled a list of one of their main faults which is their unnecessary racism towards brown and black people.
1st. Carole Peppers. As explained in the following presentation, yes she was scrapped from Star Rail despite being in its original concept trailer with Welt. She’s a walking cariacture.
Carole
2nd. Arlan. The only melanated character in the fantasy space game with talking robots and dragons(????!?). As we know he’s unsurprisingly the worst character in the game and is the only one who doesnt use skill points.
Arlan
3rd. Penacony. Based off the Jazz Age. You’ll never guess who invented and popularized Jazz.
Penacony
Ill update this as I compile more of their shameless writing. Not a single content creator seems to care so I thought itd be beneficial to have in depth issues on slides.
Ill see if I can make enough of these and circulate this info in a way that FORCES either content creators or the game team themselves to address this. The goal I have is to air out this stupid pattern of racism before they try to hypnotize everybody with their anniversary rewards 🫤
Important graphic i made this is tiring to say every update but penacony brings up racist stereotypes poorly and whitewashes black culture. Deciding on making more graphics, but could yall help spread this one? I believe for once we have a chance bc first off, this game is made for global outreach. Second off its barely past their first year of release. If their sales and popularity crashed they would almost certainly have to take action.
Former graphics include:
im trying my best to spread word and educate on why whitewashing a historically black movement is bad but it gets overshadowed in the face of hot robots apparently 💀
just did the penacony plot on the genocide empress and im gonna be real even overwatch can handle these heavy topics better than those dipshit writers bc why are they leaving their massive playerbase with the idea that 🥺 you can tell the person that killed millions that 🥺 maybe theyre not all bad
its what they did with slavery too im gonna be honest media literacy is dead in the Hoyoverse writing team and their garbage fans are puppeteering it.
Im not even adding the rest can yall seriously start clowning on this game and hyping up a new game or something
they mishandle slavery they mishandle black music and culture they mishandle slurs how much more until people speak up
the way people are only conveniently ignoring penacony when dissing genshin and natlan and hyv now im already getting myself sick and angry using twitter what the fuck do i have to say for people to fucking listen to me im going to break down after the bullshit on twitter why can you people make space in your hearts for oppression and appropriation and then use African Americans as your stepping stools?
