#john beebe

[randomfoggytiger]

Personality Type, an Introduction

Explaining Extraversion/Introversion, Sensing/Intuition, Thinking/Feeling, and Debunking Perceiving/Judging

(Credit to: Abdullah Al Bakriu)

Disclaimer: This post does not include the Interaction Styles or Temperaments, which are other models used to more fully explain (and check against) Personalty Type. Those will be discussed in future.

Main headings: TL;DR; THE BASICS OF PERSONALITY TYPE CODE; LIVING SYSTEMS AND ROLES; THE INTP AS AN EXAMPLE

TL;DR

Type is determined by the order of Sensing or Intuition, Feeling or Thinking, and their paired extraversion or introversion (i.e. is one Se, Si, Ne, Ni; and is one Fe, Fi, Te, Ti? Example: ISFP = Se+Fi pairing; ISFJ = Si+Fe pairing.

Perceiving and Judging do not, in and of themselves, mean anything: they are simply markers (or modifiers) for the letter next to them. For example, if one is Fi, then you will place a 'P' at the end to indicate Feeling Introversion. However, if one is Fe, then you will place a 'J' at the end to indicate Feeling Extraverted.

Extraversion and Introversion do not correlate to modern day interpretations of "introvert" or "extrovert." They are used to explain the focus of each cognitive function. Example: Feeling Extraverted is Feeling geared towards the external world: a connective process that naturally seeks to harmonize with, support, help, or coexist with others. Feeling Introverted, meanwhile, is Feeling geared towards the internal world: "how do I feel about this?", personal values and morals and judgments.

There are eight total cognitive functions (Se, Si; Ne, Ni; Fe, Fi; Te, Ti) which create an individual type's stack. S/N functions take in information from the world around them; F/T make decisions or take action from the information gathered. An external cognitive function must pair with an internal cognitive function. Example: ISFP = Se+Fi; ISFJ = Si+Fe. There is one dominant, or primary, function: the Hero, which one naturally operates through (in-born.) There is a secondary, or auxiliary function: the Supporter, which develops around puberty to early twenties. There is a third, or tertiary function: the Relief, which begins during early adulthood and carries onward. And there is a fourth, or inferior, function: the Aspiration, which begins development around middle age onward (and which theoretically kicks off the midlife crisis.) The other four functions are locked away in the Shadow. Each function is part of one's personalty but can be repressed or delayed due to environmental pressures (e.g. restricting home or early social life) or other personal factors.

Se engages with the physical world: the senses, the aesthetics, the feelings and energy it provides. Present moment focused, "all in." Si engages with the physical world through the past: a voice or smell reminds them of a sensation (or someone) that made an impression. A slight disengagement from the present, very "past informs the present."

Ne engages with the external world through hypotheticals, metaphors, or symbols that remind the of other things, connect to other things. Present yet detached focus. Engages with others to draw conclusions. Ni engages with the external world with hypotheticals, symbols, metaphors for the future. Disengagement from the present, necessary to withdraw from others to clearly sort information and "predict" future (i.e. identify patterns.)

Fe makes decisions based on mutual benefit: "What will make that person (and I) happy?" It seeks to connect with others. Fi makes decisions based on subjective values: "What do I feel is right?" It engages with others and ideas through a moral framework, and seeks to improve that framework and society's ethics as a whole.

Te makes decisions based on consensus rational: "Has this been proven? What is the research?" It seeks to build frameworks or improve systems for the consensus. Ti makes decisions based on an internal framework of consistency: "Does this make sense?" It constantly adds new information to this framework (or rejects old information) to better understand the world.

WHAT THE MBTI TEST GETS WRONG

J&P Mean Nothing… (Personality Type): That letter on the end of the type code tells you which process is used in the external world. So N[x]P, the P tells you that the N is used in the external world [Ne, Extraverted iNtuition.] N[x]J tells you that the N is used in the internal world [Ni, Introverted iNtuition.] 

That’s all that J and P do, nothing more. It doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean you’re more organized, less organized. It doesn’t mean that you are decisive, it doesn’t mean-- the J doesn’t mean that you’re decisive, the P doesn’t mean that you put things off. Okay? 

So, the J and P…. If you say a bunch of things about J and P as something separate, you’re really talking about something different [Ne, Ni, etc.] So, if there’s a J on the end of the code and there’s an N, you have a perception of how things will be [Introverted iNtuition]; so, you’re likely to structure the world to make that happen [Ni willpower.] If there is a P at the end of the code and an N, then that means that you’re going to live your outer life more in the extraverted world of intuiting possibilities and ideas [Ne theoretical.] 

And especially if when you get two people together who are somehow in sync, and you start to brainstorming-- often nobody’s with you anymore… in the group. 

All that, that letter J and P does is tell you…. It tells you that you would use your preferred perceiving process in the external world. That’s all it is: it’s a modifier that tells you that. 

So, when we grouped you by NJ and NP, or SJ and SP, that’s what we were getting at. You can see that the focus of the perception is external for NP [Extraverted iNtuition, Ne] or SP [Extraverted Sensing, Se].... [External focus] changes all the time because the external world is often changing. But the introverted world, there’s something on the inside, then… where information comes to you on the inside. And Introverted Sensing is more about, it’s accessing what has been; and Introverted Intuiting is what will be. They’re opposites in that way; but… the directions are similar. 

INTROVERT VS EXTROVERT/EXTRAVERT

Quick aside: while Carl Jung used E and I to describe the language of energy given or received, current cultural vernacular does not use it in the same context (or the same way.)

In short, Jung used extraversion (with an 'a') and introversion to differentiate cognitive functions, not one's singular preference to be in the company of others or to seek solitude. Therefore, Feeling Extraverted (Fe) was indicative of the person's outward focus with that cognitive function (broad interconnection, oriented towards connecting with or supporting) with Feeling Introverted (Fi) was targeted inward (focusing on personal morals, "what makes me feel good," observing others' ethics and hypocrisies.)

It was the Myers-Briggs addition that placed greater emphasis on Extraversion/Introversion's (and Judging/Perceiving's) importance in the type code. While initially meant to signify which cognitive function (S/N and F/T) was extraverted and which introverted, it snowballed into two separate measures of (misplaced) equal importance.

A little summary by Dr. Berens and Dr. Dario (via their manual The Sixteen Personality Types):

In examining individual differences, Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung differentiated two fundamentally different orientations. He noticed some people seem primarily oriented to the world outside themselves. He called these people extraverted. He saw other people as primarily oriented to the world inside themselves. He called these people introverted. This extraverted-introverted difference is related to where you focus and recharge your energy. Then Jung noticed that people could be further distinguished by their preferred mental processes. Jung saw two kinds of mental processes used in everyday life: the process of perception (becoming aware of) and the process of judgment (organizing or deciding).

He then further differentiated two kinds of perception--Sensation and Intuition. Sensing is a process of becoming aware of sensory information. Intuiting is a process of becoming aware of abstract pattern information and meanings. Both kinds of information are available to us, but we pay attention to only one kind at a time. Both are necessary and valuable in everyday life. 

Likewise, he noted two kinds of judgment--Thinking and Feeling. Thinking judgments are based on objective criteria and are detached from personal values. Feeling judgments are based on subjective considerations and are attached to personal and universal values. Even the smallest act involves either Thinking or Feeling judgments, and both kinds of decisions are needed and valuable. 

Each of these four mental processes can be used in either the external world of extraversion or the internal world of introversion, producing eight mental processes. Then Jung outlined eight psychological types, each characterized by the predominance of one of these eight mental processes (extraverted Sensing, introverted Sensing, extraverted iNtuiting, introverted iNtuiting, extraverted Thinking, introverted Thinking, extraverted Feeling, and introverted Feeling). In his writings he suggested that each of these eight dominant mental processes was supported by one of two opposing processes and that each of these eight types might vary according to which opposite mental process was used in support of the dominant.

For example, the extraverted Sensing type with Thinking would be somewhat different from the extraverted Sensing type with Feeling. Thus, his notions imply sixteen type patterns, each characterized by preferences for the use of two of the eight mental processes, as shown in the table….

THE BASICS OF PERSONALTY TYPE CODE

Quoting directly from Linda Berens's lecture You Are Not a Sensor:

Now, if you're old enough-- and I don't know if they still diagram sentences, where you have a subject and a verb and an adjective and an adverb? Think about [S/N and T/F] as the subject and the verb: they're the heart of the type code. And, and the other two [E/I and J/P] are modifiers. So, in my view, in my experience, the other two… E or I, J or P are modifiers: they're not something in and of themselves. 

With the exception (slight exception) of Extraversion and Introversion, because the longitudinal studies around that-- with a different definition than Jung had, but close enough-- is it's the most stable characteristic over time. But in my experience, whether you are in an Extraverted mode or an Introverted mode is dependent on which cognitive process you're using.

PERCEIVING PROCESSES

Jung said there are perceiving processes…. I like to talk about it as the kind of information we pay attention to. So, perception is about attending to information. (Whether it’s internal or external, that’s another way we can take a look.) But… we’re accessing information. So, the S or the N refers to that: it’s the Perceiving processes. I like to call them the Awareness processes to get it away from this idea of the five senses....

So when we look at the type code, here’s what it looks like: 

The Perceiving processes: there’s Sensing and iNtuiting-- we change these to gerunds because they’re active things, they’re not nouns. You’re not a sensor or an intuitor. You engage in these processes. And they can be used in the external world or the internal world. So in the type code language, it’s Se or Extraverted Sensing, Si or Introverted Sensing, Ne [Extraverted iNtuition] or Ni [Introverted iNtuition.] That means your awareness is internal (introverted), or external, [extraverted.] And this happens so fast, these various awarenesses, that you’re actually probably accessing one or two of these four processes, if not all four of them, in any particular moment…. 

So while I’m talking, you might be going inside and accessing what this reminds you of and checking against what was said to you before about this [Introverted Sensing].Or maybe the sound of my voice is reminding you of somebody, and so you know you’re not here anymore-- you’re with the somebody that it reminds you of…. Or you might be engaged in Extraverted Sensing and listening to the tones of my voice, or what you see on the screen or the sound of the fan that’s going on… or something that flashes on your phone: you’re drawn out into what is going on in the external world, and what is tangibly going on out there. Okay. 

If you’re thinking about intuiting-- and this is not the best word to use, but it’s the one that’s been used-- iNtuiting in Jung’s frame is abstract information, conceptual information, symbolic information. Something sort of like… it’s almost like the way to define it is the opposite of what is actually physically there, or was there. Okay. So, we have intuiting in the external world (when it’s focused outward), it’s about, um, potential things that link to something… outside the context. Um, something might be a little unrelated: a flight of ideas in a way, that may come to you; and this builds on that which builds on the other thing. If you are in a moment of accessing intuitions or intuiting in this introverted way [Introverted iNtuition], you would probably prefer to do that without interacting with people. So… that’s often when these insights come. So, a solution to a problem could come wholesale, or a symbol will present itself to you, or a knowing about something that’s going to happen in the future (and it is going to happen in the future.) So, now we’re so far away from “sensor”-- you’re an “intuitor” just with these very brief definitions. Okay….

SIDENOTE: DIFFERING INTUITIONS

If you were in the Extraverted iNtuiting mode, you might be thinking about, uh, ‘Yeah, I wonder if she’s ever thought about how this connects to something else.’ And, ‘I like this graphic thing! I think there would be lots of possibilities for using this in some other setting, so here’s some ideas that I have.’ So, kind of brainstorming on ideas that are outside the context, not in the context. 

If it’s iNtuiting (Introverted iNtuiting) if you’re there, you may have spaced out a little bit and gone into a different world and sort of disconnected. And had some ideas that come to you about the-- I don’t know, some problem that you’ve been working on elsewhere and this… is enough to trigger you thinking about that. Or something symbolic: you may have had an idea about a different way to present this whole thing that popped into your head. Okay. 

Very simplistic. 

JUDGING PROCESSES

And then there is the T and F. The T and F is either Thinking or Feeling. (Which, by the way, is not… really the best translation from what I understand about from what Jung meant. But I don’t speak German enough to know.) So, that is a metaphor: it isn’t about thinking or feeling. This more of a metaphor from what we can talk about. And these are called Judging processes. I prefer to call them Evaluation processes. They’re, ‘What do we do with that [Perceiving] information?’ And we have preferences for one over the other. 

So, we have Judging processes: so, what do you do with information [from Perceiving]? Now, perception doesn’t always perceive judgment: Awareness doesn’t always perceive the Judging process. You may have some information that you need to do something, to make a decision about it; and then you seek certain kinds…. So, it’s like an interrelated loop. Okay.

So, there are two: one is called Thinking and one is called Feeling. 

Thinking doesn’t mean thinking. I mean, it doesn’t mean that you’re able to think. Feeling doesn’t necessarily mean feelings. In fact, it wasn’t intended to mean that. 

Feelings inform what you call the Feeling function because that’s how you know what those kinds of, that kind of evaluation process is about: it’s what’s important, what are the values, what’s important to other people….  

If we go to the introverted version [Fi] to make an evaluation, it’s like, ‘What’s important?’ The simple level: ‘Do I like it or not?’ Um…, ‘Is it good for me?’ Might be, ‘Is it good for people?’, sort of in a universal sense. On an Extraverted sense of Feeling [Fe], there’s a… we call it Connecting: it’s about connecting with others. So, that the focus is on what’s good for you, what’s good for the other person. What do they [others] want more often than the internal ‘what do I want?’ Very simplistic definition here, it’s much richer than that. 

With Thinking, then, you’re evaluating something based on either external data, measurement, logic (external logic) [Extraverted Thinking]... or internally, you’re looking at the frameworks that you hold that are objective frameworks that you can explain in some sort of a model [Introverted Thinking.] Okay, so. 

Thinking in the sense that they’re detached from feelings, and Feeling in the sense that feelings give you information about that. So, when you’re with somebody and they start to cry… in this cognitive process of Extraverted Feeling, you get a sense and may know what this person needs at the moment. So, it’s not so much the feeling of the crying as it is the knowing what to do in connection with that person….  

SIDENOTE: DIFFERING THINKING AND FEELING PROCESSES

Let’s see if I can do the Extraverted Thinking, Introverted Thinking, Extroverted Feeling ones….

[Extraverted Thinking] might be saying, ‘So, what’s the research around this? How do we know the Myers-Briggs has done E/I/S/N/T/F/J/P for years?’ (Lots of research data. At least if you’re in one of the early qualifying programs, you had to memorize and learn a bunch of stuff about that.) Um, and so you might be looking for some, some external measures. Or you might say, ‘Wow, I like this configuration here! This is really a logical explanation.’ (Now, you don’t have to have a preference for any of these to have that mental activity going on. This is just an example of a kind of activity.)

So, Introverted Thinking, well, ‘Is what she’s saying accurate? This is what I learned what that meant, this doesn’t match what I learned before. Is it accurate?’ Or, ‘Maybe she could define this a little more finely because I think that’s a fuzzy definition.’ So, going internal to your frameworks and checking for consistency. 

If it’s, um, Extraverted Feeling-- looking outward, connecting-- you might be wondering how other people are feeling in the moment. You may see somebody’s expression on their face, or you may notice that, uh, Stephanie went off screen for a while and think, ‘Oh, what’s she doing? I hope she didn’t hurt herself!’ I don’t know, you-- it’s whatever you can think of….

For me, what happens is I’m saying, ‘I’ve been doing a lot of lecturing now, this isn’t enough. We have to stop lecturing, we have to get more involvement.’ So, I’m using two things: concern for my participants, you guys, and the frameworks I have (about good design.) All right, so.

Now, if you had this Feeling process Introverted going on for you [Introverted Feeling], you’re going to say… ‘Wow, this is profoundly important! This is good. We need to spread this word!’ Or you might say, ‘Well, what she just said isn’t really congruent with the way she’s behaving. It seems like she’s respecting this but she doesn’t.’ Or [noticing] some kind of incongruence…. 

So, what we have then are these eight functions. Well, they’re different cognitive processes that are… organized in a certain pattern. So, what does this letter on the end [do], the J and P? 

J and P does nothing but point [in a direction.] So, if you have a P on the end of your code that stands for Perceiving, and that means that it points to which process you would use in the external world. So, if there’s SP in your code, you’re likely to prefer the Extroverted Sensing [Se, e.g. XSeXP] as a way of dealing with the world most of the time. If there’s an N on the code, that would mean that you’re like to prefer, um, seeing patterns and connections, emerging patterns, and seeing how something here removes [or] relates to something looking like it’s not related at all [Ne, e.g. XNeXP.] All right. So, that’s what P tells you. 

If there’s a J on the end of the code, then that tells you that the Judging process that’s in the code is used in the external world. So, if it’s Extraverted Thinking [Te, e.g. XXTeJ], then that tells you that you’re looking at external logic, measurement, constructing things, systems, things like that. If there’s an F on the code [Fe, e.g. XXFeJ], that means that you tend to live your outer life with connecting, with wanting to have connections, with making decisions about what’s good for you, what’s good for the group. 

What happens to the other letters? What else is there? 

EXTERNAL VERSUS INTERNAL WORLD: E VS. I

So, the E and the I-- and I don’t have a graphic for this-- so, the E and the I. 

If there’s an E on the front of the code, it tells you that whatever process (let’s see if I can point this out) is extraverted, it’s the one that you will favor because you prefer to live in the external world. 

(Note the placement of the cursor pictured.)

So, if it’s an ESP in the code… then Extraverted Sensing is what you lead with [primary function of four main functions in a Personality stack.] And then, the other one that’s in the code [be it an F or T Function] would be used in an Introverted manner. 

So, the type code tells you just with that information… what kinds of activities you’re likely to prefer to engage in in your external world and in your internal world. Okay.…

So, you have an internal process and an external process that the type code tells you kicks off an understanding of the pattern of, ‘What do you lead with [primary function] and what do you support with [auxiliary function]...?’ 

So, there’s this whole idea of the external world and the internal world; and each process happens there. And then we have these four:

And here’s another way we like to present that (so, with a little more detail): 

We like to use the terms for Extraverted Sensing about ‘experiencing’ and ‘noticing.’ 

For Introverted Sensing, we like to talk about it as ‘reviewing.’ And what you’re reviewing is what’s going on inside. 

Extraverted iNtuiting, we talk about it as ‘interpreting’ here: interpreting something and inferring what it means. 

And Introverted iNtuiting, we call it ‘foreseeing.’ It’s also… I don’t have a good word for it, but it’s about symbolizing. Like, symbols come to you. 

So, these are some of the meanings. And each of these processes is used in an Extraverted or Introverted way. (Then we could do the same for the other functions….)

[These processes] range from simplistic and basic to extremely sophisticated and archetypal. So, when we’re young, we’re using them in a more simplistic way, usually. So, Introverted Thinking is about getting to the essence of something: noticing what it really is, what are the essential qualities of it. And in a simple way, you’re checking against frameworks that you already know; and of course, once they’re in there, it takes a crowbar sometimes to make room for a new one. (Says somebody who knows well that it needed a crowbar a few times, even to the point of having to give up my favorite models.) In the more sophisticated ways, it’s really about analyzing things in such a way that you, you drill down into what is at the essence of it; and hopefully find a single word that will convey that essence. And that’s true for Introverted Feeling, in terms of, like, the level of sophistication of the values that you’re looking at first: it’s the values you’ve taken on; and then you start to see more and more finer distinctions of value. We call it ‘valuing;’ and we call thinking and introvert thinking ‘analyzing.’ 

LIVING SYSTEMS AND PATTERNS

So, what happens is, you have these eight processes; and the holistic system’s view is that these eight processes are in a pattern. They’re in a configuration in the personality, in the way that… in relationship to each other. 

So, to understand living systems, you have to look at the pattern; and the pattern is what stays the same over time. 

You can look at processes, which are activities that maintain the system. 

And then you can look at structures. 

And then you look at meanings. 

So, when Dario Nardi did the brain research, he’s looking at some structures that support the pattern and how that plays out. And what we know is the brain is plastic, meaning it, you know, it’s shapeable. So, with experiences, you can change what the brain does, what the activities are in certain situations. And yet, underneath that-- what Dario’s finding is-- that there’s still the essence of the original pattern, even though a certain area of the brain might have been developed… that’s typical of other activities. 

IDENTIFYING THE SYSTEMS AND PATTERNS

So, what John Beebe identified, and what Jung hinted at, and what Isabelle Myers when she developed the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator also got at a little bit (when she, you know, they identified their interpretation of Jung, she and her mother) was that there was a dominant process [primary function] and an auxiliary process [second function.]  

And then… they identified a tertiary process [third function] and an inferior process [fourth function.] And, of course, most, a lot of what was written is that the inferior was inferior, then, in quality. 

And then the rest of it [fifth through eight functions], well, that’s just there-- it’s in the Shadow. We don’t do anything with it. John Beebe identified that there are these eight cognitive processes [functions]-- which, I showed you the letters-- that occur in a pattern naturally; and that process is likely to play a role in the personality, a specific kind of role….

So, one tends to play a [dominant] heroic role. And the positive side of that is that’s the kind of thing, process that you use habitually… probably skilled at it because you’ve practiced it; and it’s often the kinds of things you do to save the day. And who doesn’t want to be a hero? So, we try to apply that to other things; and the downside can be dominating. 

So, for me, my pattern: iNtroverted Thinking is my leading role [INTP]; and it plays as heroic role at times as I’ve clarified, ‘Oh, this is this and this is that; and this is not that. And you know we have all these--’ This whole business here [referring to charts pictured above.] But sometimes, I’m just so frustrated because I know I’m right and then I put that on other people. And I did that in the association for typological type for a long time, and I said, ‘You’re wrong.’ People don’t like to hear that, so that’ didn’t work too well. But it’s a dominating thing. 

So, there’s a plus side and a negative side. [The primary processes] tend to be more positive, but they can get into the negative. So, there’s that…. 

So, the Leading Role [primary or first function]: Hero, Heroic, whatever term you want to use. 

Supporting Role [auxiliary or secondary function]: it’s a good parent, it’s the way you help people. 

A Relief Role [tertiary or third function] will be the form you might take to play a lot. Um, it gives you relaxation: creative child. 

And then there’s the Aspirational Role [inferior or fourth function], which is the idealized self. It’s what you want to do. 

So, for example, in my pattern INTP: I talked to you about this heroic introverted thinking or analyzing, but what I aspire to [Extraverted Feeling Inferior], this idealized self, is to connect with others and to know what to say to people to make them feel okay or good and to have a good experience. And so, there’s this aspirational self…. 

DEVELOPMENTAL STAGES

The way the type development theory goes, as you start off in early life-- if everything’s equal and you’re able to do what it is that you prefer to do what the natural preference is, the natural inclination is-- you develop this leading role [primary function] and you get more and more skilled at it because you’re drawn to those kinds of activities. And then the supporting role [auxiliary function]-- according to some type theorists and observations-- does tend to emerge more as you go into your teen years, maybe a little earlier. 

But they’re there playing all the time. And Elizabeth Murphy (who works with children) thinks we really haven’t had good descriptions of what it looks like in children. So, she’s done a lot of research with children. 

The Relief Role [tertiary function] often comes into play in-- according to this one developmental theory-- young adulthood. And so, we start to see these other kinds of things. 

And then somewhere around whatever was called ‘midlife’ comes the Aspirational Role [inferior function.] And so, that’s often… we’ll see midlife crisis happening, you know, having to do with that. Or choosing a career in young adulthood that goes with the Relief Role [tertiary function], whatever process is there; but then getting bored with that or finding it isn’t really as satisfying as we thought…. 

OPPOSITIONAL ROLES

And then the other four processes play roles when we need them to. We can dip into them, but they have these other roles. 

One is the Oppositional Self [fifth function]: that’s the way we get stubborn. 

Critical Parent role [sixth function] is the way… we tend to be critical of ourselves, mostly. Like, ‘That particular process? We can’t measure up.’ 

With the Deceiving Role [seventh function], Phoebe called it the Trickster archetype: it’s like, ‘If only I can do this, it’s going to be so much fun, it’s going to solve everything!’ and all that stuff. 

And then the Devilish Role [eighth function] is when you get to say, ‘The Devil made me do it.’ It’s, it’s, you get caught up in whatever process that is. So, in my courses, I tell some very revealing stories about that and get people to find those things. 

IS THE SEQUENCE OF PROCESS DEVELOPMENT VARIABLE?

Yes, the sequence of development has a lot to do with what’s going on and what you need to survive or to do well….. There was a theory that really kind of put these with ages. And um, when I look at all of the people I’ve known over the years who could talk about this and who knew their type well enough, it seems to hold true. And I could track it in myself. But it’s certainly not a prescription: it’s not a, ‘Oh, it’s always going to be this sequence.’  

WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES COULD YOU USE THIS TO HELP PEOPLE NEGOTIATE?

If you’re wondering that, is that Fe or Te? 

Uh, it depends on the motive behind it. If it’s a desire to connect, or is it the desire to put order on the external world? 

USING THE INTP AS AN EXAMPLE

So, this is my type code, and I’ve talked about it…. 

I like to do a stick figure because there are two processes that work on the, um, spine (what may be called the spine of the personality.) And if you understand chakras, that’s where the energy flows. And if you happen to favor chiropractic practices, you know that if things are flowing in the… spine, then the healing energy is getting out to the rest. So, there are all kinds of [important analogies] to the spine of the personality. 

So in the pattern, my Leading Role [primary function] is Analyzing. I almost could not not do that; and it’s hard to turn it off. 

And then the Aspirational Role [inferior function] is Connecting: so, paying a lot of attention to, um, worrying about [Connecting] often more than behaving in a way that is Connected. ‘Are the learners in my courses getting what they need? Are they comfortable sharing?’ You know, ‘Have I set a safe environment?’ Those kinds of things seem to come from that. (But they could also come from the principles I’ve learned about good training….) But it’s a strong desire. Okay.

Supporting Role [auxiliary function] is Interpreting in this pattern. So, it’s about: if something’s going on and somebody’s troubled, I’m most likely to try to think of other options for their actions or what could they do. 

And then Relief Role [tertiary function] is Reviewing, which is why I sometimes get stuck in the stories about history [of personality typing.] Then that may or may not be what’s relevant at the moment when I tell you all the details. 

So stereotypically, INTP in the type [MBTI] language says that I’m not into details. Isn’t true. The types of details I’m into are about theories and models and about all of the contributing factors to something that come from past experiences. So, another type might be interested in, in details that have to do with what you’re actually seeing; and I’ve had some training in that, so if I’m doing coaching with somebody I’m watching their faces and I’m watching their non-verbal behavior. I’ve learned to do that. Had to be taught to do that, because that’s what is in my shadow processes. 

So, the Devilish for me is Introverted Feeling: getting stuck in something I want. 

Deceiving is Extroverted Sensing: I don’t trust my insights into the future, that sometimes they’re really powerful. It’s a critical parent thing…. When I get something organized, don’t mess with it (physically organized.) That’s the segmenting: [it] gets stubborn that way.  

So, there’s a whole story that we can tell about how these processes are in our pattern-- once you get to the best-fit pattern. 

So, if you think about your own pattern (what you know about that), what questions have come up? Um, what insights came to you?

CONCLUSION

Thanks for reading~

Enjoy! 

[windudemon]

trickster function is FULLY compatible with socionics' "vulnerable" aka polr function.

you protect what's "vulnerable" with tricks. you "fool" yourself and others. you "act" as if you are not vulnerable at all. trickster and vulnerable perfectly the same thing under the "super-ego" block.

fi trickster: extps will trick themselves and others that they are not sensitive like other humans, they don’t feel, they don’t care and everything is a joke with their edgy fe. after all, if you FIRST troll others and make fun of their feelings, they would be too busy protecting themselves against you… best defense is offense. you got tricked! one thing you have to remember that is VERY IMPORTANT is the fact this happens %95 subconsciously. they don’t actually plan this but it happens like an instinct so they trick themselves too.

se trickster: inxps will trick themselves they don’t care about se anyways, they don’t want to directly and impactfully compete with you like a brute, like a gorilla anyways. it’s just they like their comfort and they want to do things in their own pace! there’s no way se direct competition gives them se anxiety, it’s not that they doubt themselves when it comes to se “blasting”. pffff… of course not.

fe trickster: ixtjs will trick themselves and others that they are not sensitive to social norms like other humans with their edgy fi. after all, if you FIRST judge others and call them attention whores or gossips or dumb shits who keep laughing to anything and everything, they would be too busy thinking you are elitistic and narcissistic and stuff like that instead of thinking you feel socially awkward.

te trickster: pragmatism is evil! we shouldn’t worship facts! we should work toward our ideals or they will never come true! slavery was a fact once as well. like gandhi once said ““Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.” it is important because even if your contribution gonna be insignifact, yours + mine + many other people contributing to the same ideal won’t be insignicant! like buddha once said "Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.” let me give you more deep mystical advices on the edge of the wishful thinking, let me paint you more theoretical utopias while suggesting no tangible mechanistic way of how to implement any of that. ommmmmm.

pics are there for those who like poetic symbolic vague stuff. my descriptions are there to show how this thing called trickster works in reality.

check out my main blog @ demonwindu.wordpress.com

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[demonwindu]

socionics and mbti is not fundamentally different

in this post i will prove through socionics's "intertype relations" how you can't just go call some infps in mbti iei and others eii by vibe typing or whatever.

in socionics iei (NiFe) is "most compatible" with sle (SeTi) and this is called a duality. the reason being iei has VALUED but weak Se. naturally then, sle is the perfect help with that strong Se to iei.

the same way, sle has VALUED but weak Ni. naturally then, iei is perfect help for him with that strong Ni base. (notice how the redhead on the left has some dollar bills and other papers and stuff on her hands which symbolize her future oriented and planning ni nature but she also drops some of them cause se inferior)

THEN, they help each other through their next function in line too. sle helps iei with his "creative" ti because sle's ti is always on and mature and responsible. it understands iei's more sporadic "activating" ti and supports it in a non bossy way, like a "good parent" or teacher.

in the exact same way, iei provides fe creative to sle. for example when sle triggers others with his trolly fe, iei steps in and softens the stuff in the most elegant and non bossy way so sle do not get annoyed with that puerile "fe child" of his.

NOW! what about SLE and EII though? well, that's the "WORST" intertype relations in socionics and called conflict.

in socionics, EII (the lil' princess on the right) has "Se vulnerable" aka polr aka blindspot. so of course an Se dom will be too impactful, too forceful, too direct for EII.

so "as an infp in mbti" ask yourself: how can you be an IEI in socionics and SLE can be your dual? you like neither SE nor Ti. even entps and their ti hurts you in the feels from time to time. imagine sle's much more direct ti through se. thus, you must be an EII.

thus, any TRUE INFP in mbti with te inferior and si tertiary, will be always an EII.

don't forget: inferior in jung was anima / animus and socionic's "dual-seeking" concept comes directly from there.

[ethanjhake]

Introverted Thinking (Ti) the dominant cognitive function of an INTP. The "Hero".

For an INTP, Ti is the function that the ego relates with the most, it's the function they feel the most comfortable using. Ti is introspective and has a set idea about how the world ideally should work. This little boi is the boss of the consciousness, none of the other functions can do anything without his go ahead (not really). He's normally pretty chill, allowing the other functions to do what they like, but he genuinely cares for the well being of the ego and will stop at nothing to protect it.

(Ne) (Si) (Fe) — (Te) (Ni) (Se) (Fi)

So I've been doing a lot of research about cognitive functions, jungian theory, and especially John Beebe's eight function model, and I couldn't help but imagine what it would be like if you designed little characters based off of the archetypes that Beebe describes. The characters would be different for each personality type, but I'm starting with an INTP because that's what I'm most familiar with.

Now, this isn't at all my own original idea, I was heavily inspired by @cognitivefunctionscomics and the way she handled the idea, (please go check out her blog) but I wanted to imagine the functions for a male subject, and especially add the "shadow" functions. So stay tuned for more! Ne coming soon! :D

[demonwindu]

Hiii!

What's a "foolproof" way to know if you are seeing someone's role function instead of their base?

I feel like it's my most common problem when trying to type people, especially cus they're "on and off" functions. I feel like the only way to really know for sure is to be close to them but I was wondering if there are other ways.

When people talk I hear the functions but sometimes its difficult to put it all together into a type and be certain about it, I'm always second guessing myself

hello. remember how i associated role function with jung's persona? (and persona was a sort of mask you wear to protect yourself?)

so then an infp working at goverment office or whatever will put that ti mask on and be serious and detached. why? because infp will think that's what expected from him by society. why? because role function is the core of superego block.

or as an entp when i was running an internet cafe, i was controlling kids with hard se intimidation. people who just knew me from there used to think i was very scary and that's exactly what i wanted them to think. (no cursing while playing counter-strike. we have girls here researching stuff online or checking their emails. watch your dumb mouth.)

that's socionics part of it. but then there's john beebe dimension of that function too which he names as "demon function"

if entp had to fight and this is happening all of a sudden, he would use se in such a chaotic way and exert himself. this is why people tend to type joker as an entp. you know how joker would stab you way too many times even though you are dead? this is because he brings se from the deepths of psychic repression ocean. and so he ends up using it in a non-refined way, it's too forced, too much energy than necessary spent in a turbulent / neurotic way.

in contrast a true se dom usually reports something called "flow state" in which they feel like time slow down and they can easily dodge punches and kicks and then they just one hit k.o. you using their psychic energy professionally, economically, refinedly, in a well measured way etc. (the way conor mcgregor finished jose aldo and the way jorge masvidal finished that funky wrestler is a good example too.)

and then an infp too, WHEN MAD can go into ti demon mode: you did this AND this AND THEN you promised x, y and z and you never keep your promise AND then you once even told me i was q and z and p SO you are an EVIL person i HATE you. *cries*

look at your nickname. it's very ti role, isn't it? there's no way you are a refrigerator but i know you enough to say that. but yeah, people are complex things and you can't type people from a far.

[demonwindu]

introverted thinking in each slot according to beebe’s 8 function model

//click to zoom in.

while trying to find names to associate, i struggle with “estp teacher of truth”. who else other than joe rogan fits there? but you can find many more entps who are playing exactly that parent role. i think estps being too direct will just do the logic as opposed to “teach” it.

on the other hand, i found istjs fitting “witch ti” much better than intjs. i think the same reason applies here. istjs will actually show that in reality, since they are sensors. heraclitus though, is a great intj example imo.

[demonwindu]

john beebe’s 8 function model and how te works in each slot

source

trickster: because according to infjs and isfjs, organizing must be done with fe instead.

witch: because entps and estps salty about te. my ti is better! i won’t be ignored!

[demonwindu]

mbti, socionics, jung and beebe comparison (first three functions)

in beebe, first function called “hero”. in socionics it is called “leading” or “program” function. jung used the word “dominant” which encompasses all these and what i tend to use.

jung called second function auxiliary which means what it means. like exactly what dictionary tells you. in beebe (who is a strictly jungian analyst) it is called “parent” function. so that supporting theme continues. socionics though, prefers the term “creative function” but i think there’s still no real difference. it’s just support is delivered creatively. i prefer the term parent because i think second function is the most mature of all functions and so “parent” makes the best intuitive sense to me.

third function is not specifically described in jung but beebe called it “child” or “eternal child”.in early socionics some guy called the third slot “secret agenda” and here is the secret agenda of each type by ganin, corrections by me in the paranthesises:

entp, estp => to be loved (this is more like being popular and cool so it’s being loved by “the group”)

intp, infp => to be healthy (this is more like being comfortable)

esfj, estj => to be perfect (this doesn’t make any sense. what ne has to do with being perfect mr. ganin? their secret agenda will be being interesting, creative and stuff i would say)

isfj, infj => to understand (pretty much, yeah, has a more systemizing flavor to it)

enfj, entj => to be wealthy (it is more about creating an “impact” in this world)

istp, isfp => to believe (more like to know. which one is best a or b and why kind of knowing) 

esfp, enfp => to know (more like make it work)

intj, istj => to love (this is more like a secret agenda or need of creating deep bonds which i guess you can call to love, sure)

this secret agenda displays itself in a childish way. for example entps and estps try to be cool by trying a bit too hard. intps and infps don’t want to get out of the house and act like cats. compared to dominant function, this is more instinctive, compulsive, unconscious kind of urge. you don’t do this very much knowingly. you end up acting this way and that’s why “secret”

and then, with this kind of energy (childish), you act as a catalyst. you “mobilize” others. entjs and enfjs with their third slot se make people move. “come on guys, we can do it and stuff!” or entp start being a monkey and make everyone laugh and suddenly everyone feels fe good. or intj talking to somebody on the bus back to home. one on one. and share their most intimate thoughts and whatever with them in an fi way. 

so this is how i connect the dots between the different systems when it comes to third function.