im reading this in his drunk voice

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@aliqj
im reading this in his drunk voice
I started Vita Nuova because it seems a strong understanding of that will help me interpret Purgatorio better, and I gotta say, between this and the beginning of Inferno, I’m really struck by Dante’s delicate temperament. In Inferno, he passed out multiple times because he was so overwhelmed by emotion (namely pity), and here he says he was so overwhelmed by seeing Beatrice again he basically had to run away to go be alone in his room and take a nap (where he had a wet dream where she ate his burning heart). What a guy I love him so much.
Not my usual sk8 but I love this art sm I need to share😭
I haven’t done full research on Andrea de’ Mozzi but it’s soooo funny to me that I’m reading the context behind the people Dante mentioned in Canto 15 of Inferno and it’s like “yeah his brother was so disgusted by his stupidity and depravity he didn’t want to look at him anymore so he had the pope assign him to another city” like can you imagineeeee being like “god I hate my stupid pervert brother get him out of my face” and the pope being like “yeah okay man”
I’m reading Canto 9 of Purgatorio and, to break it down to its very basics, as Dante is sleeping the Angel Lucia scoops him up and drops him next to the gates of Purgatory but he has a dream sequence during this journey where he sees a big golden eagle and it swoops down and carries him up to the Heavens
And he compares himself to Ganymede, which is understandable because of the eagle, but the rest of Ganymede’s story is a craaazy comparison for Dante to make???
Ganymede was a human boy that was considered to be suuuuch a beautiful mortal that Jove (Zeus) wanted to fuck him so bad he turned into an eagle and stole him from Earth to bring up to Olympus (very simplified, but, essentially that)
Dante (as was rather common in the Middle Ages) has used Jove to reference the Christian God, since the common belief was that that’s who the ancients were referring to, they just didn’t have the guidance of Christ to realise that yet
So Dante just compared himself to God’s most beautiful boy that he wants to fuck????
Okay, I’ve finally had time to condense my thoughts on Canto 16 of Inferno—I think it’s my favorite one so far. There's definitely more important cantos to the structure/context of the story, but this one was really heavy on imagery (Dante uses similes a lot but he really ramps it up in this one, it’s so very visual) and was really thought provoking for me, especially in regards to Dante's conflicting feelings on homosexuality.
This is the most respect/affection that he’s shown to anyone outside of Limbo (aside from Brunetto Latini in Canto 15, who was also a sodomite). I find it interesting that Virgil urges Dante to respect these men, and even thinks it would be fitting for him to join them, were there not consequences:
"...these are souls to whom respect is due; : and were it not for the darting flames that hem : our narrow passage in, I should have said : it were more fitting you ran after them." (Inf. 16.15-18, John Ciardi translation)
The three men approach, and Dante describes them as naked oiled, lunging wrestlers circling near his feet. They are men he deeply respects and what I find so interesting is that none of them have any other claims of sodomy against them—Dante is pretty much the only person to mention their names in that context.
And, to me anyway, there's something carnal about the way he's described them:
"As naked and anointed champions do : in feeling out their grasp and their advantage : before they close in for the thrust or blow— : so circling, each one stared up at my height..." (Inf. 16.22-27, John Ciardi translation)
So, does Dante just know some niche Florentine gossip that only he had the balls to put to paper? Or was there something more personal about his choosing these men? (I find it notable that he likely did not meet the majority of them; most of them died around the time he was born or during his early childhood years)
All three of them (Guido Guerra, Tegghiaio Aldobrandi, and Iaocpo Rusticucci) were political/moral idols of Dante's, so I find it strange he puts them here with no evidence to back his claims of homosexuality. In fact, there is only 1-3 (depending on how strongly you feel about it) sodomites mentioned in Canto 15 and 16 that can be explained.
Brunetto Latini, Guido Guerra, Tegghiaio Aldobrandi, Iaocpo Rusticucci, and Guglielmo Borsiere all were baseless, it seems. Priscian and Francesco d'Accorso were both teachers, which is at least some kind of explanation (it was often said that teachers were "most tainted" by the vice of sodomy, especially Latin grammar teachers such as Pricisan). Truly the only guy who really seems to have evidence backing Dante's claim of sodomy is Andrea de' Mozzi.
So again I have to wonder, why these men in this specific circle? This leads me to my theory that Dante himself had very conflicting feelings about homosexuality, specifically related to himself, which may explain why he picked such respected figures.
This is what he says upon meeting the three sodomites in Canto 16:
"I would have thrown myself to the plain below : had I been sheltered from the falling fire; : and I think my Teacher would have let me go. : But seeing I should be burned and cooked, my fear : overcame the first impulse of my heart : to leap down and embrace them then and there." (Inf. 16.46-51, John Ciardi translation)
This is so painfully reminiscent of the closeted experience—staying there out of fear, holding back your impulses to stay up where it's "safe". That he would join them, and not just join but embrace them, if there were no consequences is rather telling. And again, we have evidence that Virgil would probably happily have let Dante join them, were it not for the pain that would follow. I think this shows Dante himself has had thoughts about men, but not pursued them out of fear; especially when you consider the wording "my fear overcame the first impulse of my heart".
In my post from the other day that kind of skimmed over this, I talked about the clear contrast between Poet Dante and Character Dante—how Poet Dante specifically wrote these men being punished in this specific way, but Character Dante shows an abundance of compassion/respect and possibly even kinship with those same men—and how that likely shows an internal struggle within real-life Dante regarding homosexuality.
I tied it back to the Wood of Suicides and how his pity for those souls could be taken as a critical reflection of his own traits (in the Dark Wood, his first instinct was to give up before Virgil arrived).
What I did not mention, was how it could also be tied back to his reaction in Circle 2: Lust.
There, Dante was so overwhelmed by pity that he swooned and passed out upon hearing the sad tale of lovers Francesca and Paolo. Again, the same contrast between Poet Dante and Character Dante is present. Poet Dante created the punishment, he chose who was placed there and why, and yet Character Dante finds such compassion for them.
And Dante is not always so sympathetic to the sinners in Hell—when crossing the river Styx he actually calls for a soul to be tortured more. This is not just his common reaction to meeting a tragic soul.
I think you could easily say Dante had a soft spot for love, and therefore for the sinners that occupy the circle of Lust. Take for example Vita Nuova, written for Beatrice, whom he had only met twice (at 9 and 18 years old), and both had even gone on to marry other people. And yet, he has a whole book of love poems to her that he wrote in his 20's and 30's (the years leading up to and just after her death). So again, like the Wood of Suicides, you could easily say Dante is using this setup to be critical of his own traits.
So if you put the Lust and Suicide together as an obvious explanation of that, when he uses the exact same structure when discussing Sodomy, I find it hard to draw a different conclusion. Especially when this isn't necessarily a vehicle he uses often (so far, at least).
I haven't even looked at Purgatorio yet, but from passing research I know he meets some "repented" sodomites up there, and I'm very curious if/how that will change my perspective on this. I'm truly so fascinated by Dante, he's the little guy of all little guy's, and while this canto wasn't maybe suuuuuper plot heavy (aside from another recitation of his prophecy and a lament about the sorry social state of his beloved city) it felt so intimate and reflective.
Sorry for going on forever but I needed to get this all out in one place before my brain exploded.
got through Canto 15 and 16 of Inferno today and I'm especially struck by the contrast between Poet Dante and Character Dante (a theme I've noticed a few times... I'll get to another example in a min, but to my main point...)
(under a cut bc damn I really just ran w it)
finally reading the divine comedy and what they dont tell you is how often Dante cries and falls asleep. a lot to relate to here
So, about those stories featuring a person being whisked off to a magical land without being asked, (Alice in Wonderland, The Divine Comedy, arguably Hitchhiker’s guide, etc.) have you ever noticed that only two kinds of people are being whisked? Im talking about curious, slightly weird little girls, and pathetic wet blanket men.
making a list of Normal Ways dante refers to virgil
“my Guide”
“my Master”
“Master and most noble Sir”
“my true master”
“my Lord”
“Sweet Spirit”
“my sweet Guide”
“immortal sage”
“the sweet Poet”
“glory and light of poets”
“ornament of wisdom and of art”
“my all-knowing Guide”
“my kind Sage”
“my guiding spirit”
“that sea of all intelligence”
“my sweet Master”
“O my beloved Master”
“that great Soul”
“Supreme Virtue”
“O sun which clears all mists from troubled sight”
“my stay, my comfort, and my courage”
“my Comfort”
“that great leader who gave to me light and hope”
“O my soul’s Light”
VetVimes x The Divine Comedy but Vimes is Dante Alighieri and Vetinari is just his Beatrice
Childhood crush who you never get to marry but keeps appearing at pivotal moments in your life, anyone?? Also while you are married to another person.
Alberto Zardo
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Be cringe. If Dante Alighieri's self insert bible fanfiction can become one of the most famous series in the world, you can do anything.
did i ever post dante with his vergil ita bag i genuinely cant remember
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Reading Finch by VanderMeer now.. it sure is interesting.. and I probably should have read the previous books from the Ambergris trilogy to understand it more, but I already got too far..besides, I dont mind being confused.