Inactive Elder Scrolls lore blog

This blog WAS about TES, but I've been inactive for a long time now

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Happy birthday @mercenary-tributary (inactive since 2015)! Reblog, retweet, post their stuff on reddit, I just want Tribu to see that 11 years later they've still got fans out here.

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Dragons and Dov and Wyverns, oh my!

In general, this is true.  But don’t get sucked up into this whole argument.  I’m sorry, but it’s stupid.  Let me go into detail, a while back I said something on the internet about how dragons in Skyrim fly using magic as opposed to using their proportionally small wings.  Y’know, just lore stuff.  But then some person in the comments decided to say “Ackchually, they aren’t dragons, they’re wyverns.”  And that sparked this whole thing where some people were saying, “wyverns don’t breathe fire and have venom tho” and then others got into it saying “but you can’t deny the fact that they have only two legs,” and god, it was just so annoying.  Sorry for the emotion in this, but I just find this whole argument annoying, and I’ll explain why:

The “dragons” in TES aren’t dragons or wyverns.  They’re the flippin’ dov, and they don’t take sh** from nobody.  They’re called dragons because that’s the most suitable translation, and that’s it.  Yes, in our world they would be physically classified as wyverns, but none of that matters.  Dragons are dragons, wyverns are wyverns, and dov are dov.  End of discussion.  Stay woke, sheeple.

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Magic

Do you know how magic works in the universe of the Elder Scrolls?  Your answer doesn’t matter because I’m writing this in the past and I doubt that you can influence past events to any degree high enough to answer “yes” before I write this.

Magic is the art of manipulating the energy of the universe (magicka) into doing things.  Souls are made of magicka.  The god of magic was Magnus, the architect of Mundus.  Magnus was the first of the et’Ada to realize that Lorkhan was bamboozlin’ everyone into making Mundus at their own expense, so he was the first to escape, tearing a hole through Oblivion to get all the way back to Aetherius, the Immortal Plane and the origin of magicka.  Other et’Ada followed him, but so much of their power had already been taken that their holes were much smaller than Magnus’.  These holes into Aetherius allow magicka to flow into Mundus.  Incidentally, the hole that Magnus made is the sun and the smaller holes are the stars.  Humans (among other things) absorb this “solar” energy and, with effort, can manipulate it.  Because magicka comes from celestial bodies, the constellations under which a person is born has a great impact on their life.  

Y’know how I said “humans (among other things)?”  I said that because literally all living things absorb “solar” energy.  That’s how alchemy works, a plant absorbs magical energy and manipulates it in a unique way, even if for a mundane reason like growth.  Then an alchemist can extract the unique magical qualities of the plant and put it into a liquid of some kind (or maybe distilled magic stuff is already liquid, I dunno).  

Enchanting is done by capturing a creature’s soul and giving it to the Ideal Masters of the Soul Cairn in exchange for unique magical power that can be bound to objects.  You can probably also directly use the soul instead of using a middle man, but that art may be lost to us, unless we count recharging an enchanted item as real enchanting.

I can probably make another post entirely on spellcasting and the schools of magic.  Let’s hope I do that.

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My Inbox - Reman’s Origin

v1buster Said:  “You really need to put some lore up about Reman Cyrodiil. There's some weird stuff like how he was born after his dad and sex with a hill and Reman ejaculating on the bodies of his enemies only for his wives to collect it.”

Oh geez.  I tend to avoid Reman ‘cuz a lot of his lore is pretty vague.  But here we go anyway.  TRIGGER WARNING:  SEX (I feel like I have to put this here).

After the death of Alessia’s line, there was a period of time that was kind of like a mini interregnum.  During that time, a man named King Hrol (who might not have been entirely mortal) went on a journey with “eighteen less one” of his knights.  It is said that he traveled beyond the Aurbis and found the spirit of St. Alessia holding the Amulet of Kings.  Alessia claimed that Hrol and his knights were all less than good, so she ran from them.  They searched high and low for her until eventually she was found by Hrol and his shieldthane.  Hrol then proclaimed his love for her.  Alessia responded by shedding her clothes.  Love was made.  The shieldthane witnessed all of this, and before he died from seeing a god have sex, he carved the words “AND HROL DID LOVE UNTO A HILLOCK” onto nearby rocks.  Hrol later died from the union of he and Alessia.  Now, the thing is, Alessia may be the spirit of Cyrodiil itself, so when his knights found him, Hrol was dead with his d*ck in a mound of mud.  The knights parted ways, and they don’t matter so I’m not going to talk about them.  Anyway, nine months later, that mound of mud had grown to the size of a small mountain and gained a small community of “believers” who named it the Golden Hill, Sancre Tor.  During the final days of the mountain’s “churning,” the believers gathered around it.  When a cry was heard coming from the top of the mountain, the shepherdess Sed-Yenna (who also may have been not entirely mortal) climbed up and found a baby boy with the Amulet of Kings on his head.  She named this boy Reman, meaning “Light of Man.”  Sed-Yenna then carried Reman to the White-Gold Tower and, completely unopposed, placed Reman on the throne.  He then spoke with the voice of a man, saying “I AM CYRODIIL COME.”

Of course, we have no idea how much, if any, of this is true.  Most sources say that Reman became Emperor after the battle at Pale Pass, and some sources say that Sancre Tor was around for a while before Reman.  Soo… yeah.  I’m not sure how comfortable I am using “The Shonni-Etta (the ejaculation thing)” as a reference, ‘cuz I find the credibility of that thing hard to determine.

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From Alessia to ESO

Hey, remember when I used to actually do stuff here?  Yeah, good times.

I feel like their’s always been this vague period of time that started when Alessia became queen of Cyrodiil, all the way to when the Second Empire began, and maybe even stretching to the Interregnum.  Anyway, Saint Alessia defeats the Ayleids in her slave uprising and becomes the Queen of Cyrodiil, starting what’s now know as the First Empire.  Yeah, here’s where things get vague.  Alessia has an heir, and her line continues for a while.  The Empire expands somewhat, and that’s kind of it, up until the Alessian Order gains more power, and then there are all these silly Dragon Break shenanigans called the Middle Dawn.  No big deal.  Some kind of internal conflict within the priesthood sparks, well, conflict, and the Empire is weakened, so some places that were conquered use this weakness to sever themselves from the Empire, which causes more conflict, and the First Empire eventually lies dead.  For a while, humans just lived in smaller, independent kingdoms, with no ties to each other.  But everything changed when the Akaviri attacked.  Luckily, a man named Reman was able to rally the humans to ward off the invasion.  See, when the Akaviri invaders heard Reman’s voice at the battle at Pale Pass, they recognized him as dragonborn and swore fealty to him.  This is also the origin of the Blades.  With the help of his Akaviri Dragonguard, Reman was able to unite the humans under his rule, and most of Tamriel too (pretty much everything but Morrowind).  One thing that Reman (I) does is bring back the tradition of using the Amulet of Kings.  Where did he even find it?  I’m not entirely sure.  Anyway, after ~200 years of the Reman line, Reman III and his heir are assassinated by their advisor, a position that’s also been passed down since Reman I, called the Potentate.  All the Potentates have been Tsaesci by the way.  So yeah, Potentate Versidue-Shaie overthrew the government, declared himself the leader (while keeping the title Potentate), and also officially declared the beginning of the Second Empire.  Really, I think this means that he declared that the Second Empire had started a while ago, ‘cause that’s how we know it now.  Versidue-Shaie was constantly caught up in conflicts that left the Empire broke and without a good standing army, so the one really important thing he did was form the Fighter’s Guild.  Eventually, he’s assassinated by the Morag Tong and succeeded by his son, who rules for ~100 years before he and his heirs are assassinated.  This is what finally brought about the Interregnum, the period of time when 100s of factions fight for control of the Empire.  And then ESO, the end-ish of the Interregnum, and then Tiber Septim appears and says “get rekt” in Dragon-Tongue.  Oh, btw, Reman Cyrodiil took his surname from the province, no the other way around.  It was called Cyrodiil before he was around.

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The Shadow Realm

Jk, it’s the Soul Cairn.  

The Soul Cairn is a plane of Oblivion being controlled by people who call themselves the Ideal Masters.  The Masters were once mortals, necromancers of the Merethic era who got too powerful.  They eventually decided that their physical bodies were holding them back, so they got rid of their meat suits and traveled as pure soul energy to Oblivion.  They somehow found a place to make their own realm, the Soul Cairn.  Souls hold a massive amount of magical energy, but at some point the art of directly using that energy was lost.  Nowadays, you trap a soul in a soul gem, and when you use that soul to enchant or recharge something, you are actually giving that soul to the Ideal Masters in exchange for power.  See, the Masters have a type of “gotta catch em’ all” mindset, where they feel that they must bring souls into the Soul Cairn so that they can live a life of peaceful immortality.  Yeah, the souls trapped there don’t see it like that.

The Masters don’t get souls only from soul gems, though.  They also make a lot of long-term deals, like when they made a deal with Durnehviir the dragon.  They gave him a way to summon undead armies.  I return, Durnehviir was to serve the Masters until “some random woman dies of old age.”  -The Ideal Masters, probably.  What Durnehviir didn’t know was that the random woman was a vampire, and a really powerful one at that.  So yeah, Durnehviir is bound to serve the Masters until this immortal woman dies.

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Wood Elves and Cannibalism

First I’ll just provide some background.  A long time ago, the Bosmer made the “Green Pact” with the forest god Y’ffre.  Why they made this pact is unimportant for this post.  The pact said that Y’ffre would give the Bosmer “patronage and protection,” and in return, the Bosmer must never harm the plant life of Valenwood, only eat meat, do not kill wastefully, don’t become like beasts, and when you kill an enemy, you must eat them within three days.  Just so you know, the Bosmer sometimes do use plant life for stuff, but they have to import it.  They just can’t use any from Valenwood.  The “only eat meat” part might be all over, though.  Anyway, on to the main event:  Cannibalism.  After killing an enemy, the warrior responsible must eat their body before three days have past.  The guy’s family is allowed to help, though.  Because of this, Bosmeri culture tries to avoid conflict as much as possible.  This shows us that they’re probably not cannibals because the really want to be.  The thing is, the pact really only says when you kill an enemy, so I doubt that they’ll, like, eat they’re grandparents when they die.  So yeah, short post.  Bosmeri culture is cannibalistic, but not as cannibalistic as you might think.

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On the Origin of Man (II)

Last time I wrote about this topic I ended on the overthrowing of Alduin, and the end of the age of the dragons.  Well a while after that, a descendent of Ysgramor named Harald is crowned as High King of Skyrim.  Harald decides to cut ties with Atmora, declaring Skyrim an independent kingdom with Windhelm as its capital.  At some point after that, the Bretons were discovered by the Nords.  The Bretons were likely Nords who traveled west and interbred with elves, which is why Bretons are naturally good with magic.  A while later, long after Harald died, his grandson, Vrage, begins the Skyrim Conquests, in which the Nords take over almost all of High Rock and a lot of Morrowind.  While this is happening, the slave rebellion in Cyrodiil, led by the Slave Queen Alessia, is under way.  Alessia eventually conquers all of Cyrodiil.  Alessia then creates the new mainstream religion, centered around the Eight Divines.  Meanwhile, in Yokuda, the people now known as Redguards, have just overthrown the government and enter 300 years of civil war.  A leader emerges every one in a while, but the battles and wars continue.  Eventually a commoner becomes Emperor, and he lasts for a while, but he dies.  The “Last Emperor” of Yokuda rises to power, and decides to persecute a group of powerful warriors know as the Ansei, the Sword Singers.  The Ansei were led by a guy named Frandar Hunding (Full name:  Frandar do Hunding Hel Ansei No Shira), who decided to fight back against the emperor.  The Ansei were extremely out numbered, but they were really awesome.  In the final battle, Hunding used a strategy he had invented called the “Hammer and Anvil.”  The strategy succeeded, but it worked a little too well.  When the proverbial hammer fell upon the anvil, more than three hundred thousand people were killed.  This made the people see the Ansei as monsters, and so the Ansei left Yokuda for good.  Yokuda then sunk, possibly having something to do with the hammer.  The Ansei arrive in Hammerfell, kick out the guys living there, and claim it.  I think I have now described the origin of all the races of man.

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The Thalmor (In General)

Yeah, so I made a post about how everybody hates the Thalmor, but I didn’t really explain what they are.  So I’ll do that in one (a few) sentence(s).  The Thalmor are a political faction that strongly believes in Elven superiority.  This faction gained a lot of support by spreading propaganda saying that they saved the Isles during the Oblivion Crisis, and the Empire was too weak to reassert it’s authority.  And so, the Thalmor overthrew the Summerset Isles’ government and rebuilt the Aldmeri Dominion under Thalmor rule.

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Thalmor vs. Everyone Else

Today, I hope to dispel some prejudices against High elves.  As far as I know, EVERYONE hates the Thalmor.  And if you’re some Stormcloak spouting nonsense about “Hurr durr d*** Imperials, buddying with the d*** elves,” well the Empire hates the Thalmor too.  Oh, and do you know who ELSE hates the Thalmor?  Every non-Thalmor elf.  We must always remember that, like Hitler, the first country that the Thalmor invaded was their own.  We must all look to Legate Fasendil, an Imperial Officer, and a High elf.  He hates the Thalmor, and he actually requested he be stationed in Skyrim so that he could “keep an eye on [them].”  Fasendil hates the Thalmor because he witnessed them killing High elves who disagreed with the Thalmor doctrine, unarmed refugee High elves at that.  So yeah, the Thalmor are bad news to everybody, but not every High elf is a Thalmor.  This post is kind of random and awkward.

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Vampires of Cyrodiil

There are vampires all of over Nirn, and there are many tribes of vampires, each with different abilities and culture.  In the Dawnguard DLC, we meet the Volkihar tribe, the most powerful vampire tribe in Skyrim.  I’m sure that most vampire tribes claim to be the strongest, or the smartest, or simply the best, but the vampire tribe that probably deserves those titles the most is the vampire tribe of Cyrodiil.  In most provinces, the multiple vampire tribes are constantly fighting each other for power.  In Cyrodiil, the one tribe present overpowered and forced out the other tribes ages ago.  Secondly, we know about tribes like the Volkihar because of their power and ferocity.  We only know about Cyrodiil’s tribe because they allow us to know about them.  The vampires of Cyrodiil are masters of concealment that, when they try, are nearly indistinguishable from a normal human, even to professional vampire hunters.  By the way, I don’t call the tribe by their name because I don’t know it.  The true name of the tribe has been lost for ages.  Anyway, the very fact that almost no one actually knows whether or not there even is a vampire tribe in Cyrodiil is enough evidence that they are probably the most powerful tribe in Tamriel.

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The Amulet of Kings

The AoK was an amulet traditionally worn by the Emperor of Cyrodiil.  It’s apparently a drop of Lorkhan’s blood that was then formed into a giant soul gem that was then found by the Ayleids.  The Ayleids named the gem “Chim-el Adabal,” which roughly translated into “Royal god-stone.”  Y’know, it’s weird that so much Ayleid stuff was just absorbed into Imperial culture.  That tower you built?  Ours.  The city around the tower?  Ours.  That big gem you found?  Now it’s a sacred symbol of human power.  Yeah, so Akatosh somehow got the C-el A and gave it to Alessia.  The Imperials than slapped it on a golden clasp and it became the Amulet of Kings, the symbol of divine right to rule.  Only a true emperor can even put it on.  When Akatosh gave the Chim-el Adabal to Alessia, it formed some sort of covenant that prevented daedra from entering Tamriel without some sort of middle-man, like a summoner.  Anyway, the AoK was passed down the Alessia line until the line ended.  It was lost for a while, but eventually Reman Cyrodiil somehow came across it and was recognized as dragonborn (and maybe even dovahkiin).  He became the new Emperor and his line reigned for a while.  Then the Interregnum happened and the Amulet disappeared.  During that time, The King of Worms, Mannimarco, convinced a man named Varen Aquilarios that he could become dragonborn if they did some fancy magic with the Amulet.  Obviously Mannimarco was lying.  His real plan was to break the covenant between Akatosh and man, and he succeeded. The Amulet was lost, leaving Tamriel vulnerable to attack from Oblivion.  Naturally, Molag Bal invaded Tamriel.  These are the days and night of venom and blood, the period of time shown in Elder Scrolls Online.  During that time, the Vestige apparently recovers the Amulet and uses it to defeat Molag Bal, but I guess he…  Puts it back?  All I know is that Tiber Septim found the Amulet in Sancre Tor (Burial place of Reman) at the end of the Interregnum.  Then he put it on, became Emperor, and Conquered Tamriel.  Oh geez, I forgot to mention something important.  The AoK is a soul gem that contains the soul of every past emperor, and the souls can all talk to the wearer of the Amulet, advising them and such.  The Oversoul is apparently a near infallible source of information, as the emperors were able to confirm the massive Dragon Break known as the Middle Dawn.  That is, each emperor’s soul said that something different happened, which is a clear indication of time breaking shenanigans.  Anyway, the Septim line ended when the AoK did, when Martin Septim was forced to destroy the Amulet and sacrifice himself in order to defeat Mehrunes Dagon.  And just like that, after ~4,000 years of history, the Amulet of Kings was no more.

Note:  My sometimes, sometimes not, capitalization of the word “emperor” doesn’t make any sense.

[ancestor-moth]

Talos Didn’t Actually Conquer Everyone

I would just like to point that out.  See, everyone credits Tiber Septim with conquering all of Tamriel, but that’s not really true.  At least, it’s not true in the way most people would think when you hear “conquer.”  Tiber Septim sure did unite Tamriel under one Empire that lasted for 438 years, but he did it in a way that most people wouldn’t think of, and honestly, it was probably the most efficient way.  Okay, let’s start in the north.  People say that Tiber Septim was from Skyrim, so when he went north to “conquer” Skyrim, the Nords were so excited at the prospect of being in an Empire ruled by Talos that they joined willingly.  In Morrowind, the Tribunal (for some reason) decided to NOT fight, and instead solve everything through diplomacy.  The Dark Elves became Imperial citizens, but Morrowind got to keep it’s culture, traditions, self-rule, and religions.  The Tribunal also secretly gave Tiber Septim Numidium.  When it came to Black Marsh, Septim knew that it would be impossible for him to even invade, so he just kind of said “Hey, Argonians.  Black Marsh is a part of my Empire now.  Kay?”  And the Argonians just kind of went “Whatever, man.”  There was a treaty involved, but nothing really changed for the Argonians.  Like, at all.  More or less the same thing happened with Elsweyr.  The Khajiit were cool with it as long as they got to keep their leader, the Mane.  Tiber Septim did technically conquer High Rock, but the culture there is so good at assimilation that the Imperial culture was altered by High Rock’s more than vise versa.  Now we get to Hammerfell, Valenwood, and the Summerset Isles, the three places Tiber Septim actually did conquer.  However, he cheated in all of them.  Hammerfell was already weakened by civil war, so there’s that.  But then Tiber decided to employ the help of a flippin’ dragon.  Yeah.  A dragon.  That’s cheating.  Anyway, shortly after their defeat, Hammerfell rebelled and ended up signing a treaty with the Empire.  Hey, remember how I said that the Tribunal gave Talos Numidium?  The Brass god?  Yeah, he used that to defeat the Isles and Valenwood.  If that’s not cheating, then I don’t know what is.

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Khajiit Reproduction

Huh.  I haven’t been here in a while.  Well anyway, I’m here to talk about Khajiit.  Specifically about how they don’t reproduce sexually, or at least, how they don’t seem to have genes.  Yeah, it’s what it sounds like.  Khajiit, um, “do it” like any other race, with the, y’know, the things.  Look, I’m not here to give anyone “the talk,” so I’ll leave it at that.  The weird thing is, no matter what the parents look like, the child of a Khajiit couple will look the same as the child of any other Khajiit couple.  What a Khajiit looks like depends on what the position of the moons, Masser and Secunda, are at the time of the child’s birth.  Two “normal” Khajiit (the kind you play as in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim) could produce offspring that looks like a housecat.  See, depending on the position of the moons when it’s born, a Khajiit child will grow up to be a certain form.  There are said to be “more than 20” forms, but we only know about 17 of them.  I’m not going to talk about all of them.  Maybe some other time.  But anyway, Khajiit don’t really have genes, instead they have moons.  I think I’ve said everything that I wanted to say.  Well.  Bye.

[ancestor-moth]

My Inbox - D-Breaks in ESO

Anonymous Said:  “do you believe the "ESO takes place during a dragon break" theory?”  

Well, it makes sense.  I hadn’t heard of this theory before today, but even without doing any research, it still makes sense.  I proposed a theory in an earlier post about how the Dovahkiin (from Skyrim) is actually a few different people mantled together.  I guess the same thing can happen in reverse through a Dragon Break.  I mean, there’s only ONE Vestige (I think), but there are a lot more players than one, each with their own timeline.  The Prophet also apparently calls you a “wound in time,” and I don’t think you did any time traveling like Alduin.  The other bit of evidence is that Wulfharth was apparently recorded to be in two places at the same time, but I think Wulfharth can do whatever the f*** he wants.  I’m also not convinced that the Soulburst specifically was a Dragon Break, but yeah.  This is a legitimate theory that I can see being true.  Oh!  I forgot to say, thanks for the question.

[ancestor-moth]

Dragon Breaks

Really?  I haven’t talked about this yet?  Well anyway, a Dragon Break is an event is which time “breaks” and becomes non-linear.  Basically, the timeline splits and time goes all wonky, making people give birth to their own fathers and weird paradoxes like that.  After a Break, the multiple timelines will sometimes suddenly try to combine with each other, causing even more paradoxes.  Remember, Akatosh is the god of time and he’s depicted as a dragon.  So that’s why it’s called a Dragon Break.  Dragon Breaks are typically triggered when people mess with forces that are beyond mortals, and sometimes beyond immortals.  People say that when the ancient Nords used an Elder Scroll to send Alduin to the future, it was a Dragon Break.  I don’t believe that.  I mean, time stayed linear, there was just time travel.  The most universally accepted Dragon Break was the Middle Dawn.  The Middle Dawn was triggered when the Marukhati Selective danced on the Tower and broke Akatosh.  The Middle Dawn is said to have lasted 1,008 years.  The only thing that everyone agrees on about the Middle Dawn is that while it was happening, eight stars fell from the sky.  That was the only constant.  The Khajiit claim that the moons were also constant, but they are specially attuned to the moons, so no one else noticed.  Mannimarco, The King of Worms and one of the most powerful mages ever, claims that during the Middle Dawn, some people had greater control over themselves than others.  Namely the Tribunal and some thought to be Heroes.  A Break also occurred when Tiber Septim activated Numidium in order to conquer the Summerset Isles.  In the Third Era, during the events of the game Daggerfall, Numidium was activated again, causing a Dragon Break in which five different groups all had complete control over Numidium at the same time.  Each group used Numidium to conquer the rest of the Iliac Bay, gaining complete control of the region.  After “roughly two days,” the Break ended, causing all five groups to find that they didn’t conquer all of the bay, but were suddenly sharing it with four other groups.  This event is know as the Warp in the West.  So yeah, Dragon Breaks are super complicated, I hope I explained them well enough, and I also know that I didn’t.  

[ancestor-moth]

My Inbox - Volkiharchitecture

Anonymous Said:  “same anon as before, and this might be a little nitpicky, but are there any lore reasons for the volkihar clan's architectural differences from ancient nords/atmorans and other vampire clans? they seem to excessively use arches. is it a form of tribute to molag bal, do they see themselves as divine beings, or is it a holdover from nedic (possibly ayleid) vampires? i'm wondering why the sudden gothic architecture isn't explained or further represented in the game”

See what I did with the title?  It’s like I invented humor.  Well, once again, thank you for the input.  If this question is nitpicky, it means that I have not yet reached my nitpicky limit.  First, I think that I should say that Castle Volkihar was likely built before Lord Harkon became a vampire, which dates back to the early First or late Merethic Era.  Harkon was very rich back then (Well, I guess he still is).  It is possible that the Castle was built like a normal (but bigger) Nedic castle, but there have most certainly been additions over the years.  There have obviously been renovations in order to make it more “Molag-y (Bally?),” such as the Molag Bal shrine thing, and honestly, why would you need a flippin’ moon dial if you’re not a vampire or werewolf (Or khajiit, I guess)?  Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that a moon dial is not a legitimate argument for vampirism.  So don’t mind that.  The other thing you have to remember is that these guys are powerful Vampire Lords with insane magic.  “Inconvenient” architecture doesn’t exist for them.  They can do whatever the f*** they want with their building.  There was also at one point a guy who lived there who had a sculpture hobby, so…  Yeah.  But yeah, it’s probably mostly out of veneration for Molag Bal like you said.  I mean, he does seem to like that kind of stuff.  Plus, as powerful mages, they’re not really limited in what they can do.  I hope this at least somewhat answers your question, but I can’t really answer it with certainty.  Anyways, thanks again for the input!