i havent read TME and i was wondering if you could give the lore on imshael. i'm really fascinate by his character and the wiki is. an imprecise source of information
(I’m just gonna share the major parts with him in the book LOL.)
The Qun is very interesting fascinating to me, in a philosophical sense lol. But what's weird is that compared to what we see in da2, I don't find a lot of Bull's dialogue about it nearly as compelling, I'll be honest. Personally I think some changes/inconsistencies were made around the Qun in DAI to accommodate Bull's character-- and don't get me wrong, I do love Bull as a character, I find him interesting and funny and endearing as a character in his own right. However...
Let's start with the fact that Bull says the Qun is ridiculously horrifically complicated, that most of its followers do not understand it, and that the priests who do understand it barely understand it because they spend their whole lives trying to understand it:
"Tell me about the Qun," is like saying "Tell me about economics." Most Qunari know just enough to get by. It's like blind dwarves trying to figure out a dragon by touch. Only the priests really have the whole picture, and they spend their whole lives figuring that crap out.
Is this something that's ever mentioned before? I can't remember right now if Sten says something along these lines but I'm inclined to think he doesn't. Sten isn't very forthcoming about the Qun but it seems more like he isn't interested in explaining it to you-- Sten appears confident in his understanding of the Qun, at least to me. So does the Arishok. Tallis expresses personal doubts, but her understanding of the Qun seems to resonate with her and she acts according to it. The Arishok almost behaves like everyone in Kirkwall is an idiot for not understanding the Qun.
I just don't think "the Qun is soooo complicated and difficult!!!" (at least as a superficial reading) really fits with like.... the Qun as its explained through codex entries etc in da2, nor the way the Arishok presents it to us. Take this:
There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
Mastery of the self is mastery of the world.
Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
-- Canto 1
If these are founding tenets of the Qun, I don't think it makes sense for it to be some insanely conceptually complex academic thing, purposefully beyond the reach of the average peasant. Not only is the above pretty clear, the Arishok presents the Qun as 'certainty' as opposed to the 'uncertainty' of the human world. If anything, I got the sense that the Qun is designed as a streamlined way to make sense of the world, to explain it precisely to the common people in a way they can understand and aspire to. Which is what Koslun does, often through simple metaphors and stories rather than obfuscating academic jargon. If nobody knows wtf is going on, where's the 'certainty' in that, and where's the 'wisdom of the world' that leads to 'wisdom of the self'?
I mean I'm sure like any philosophy there are bits that scholars still need to quibble over and iron out, and OBVIOUSLY a lot of the finer workings of it are seemingly manipulative propaganda/thought control. And clearly its followers frequently doubt. But the way the Qun, as a philosophy, is presented in da2 strikes me as 1. fairly straightforward and 2. intentionally straightforward, sort of like the communist manifesto is written with the proletariat in mind. Like that seems to be the selling point of the Qun, that it offers certainty in a world that is very much uncertain. It provides an answer to complexity rather than creating it.
I guess it could be that the 'certainty' on offer is more like: "shut up and do your job, ignorance is bliss" but I still think this doesn't fully fit with the Qun as it's presented in da2. Which FREQUENTLY underscores wisdom/knowledge/understanding.
Anyway, back to Bull-- I think his purpose as a Qunari in the series is to humanise the Qunari, but they obviously had to grapple with the fact that the character of Bull, in the way they wanted to write him, just doesn't fit with the Qun lol. So he tells us about the Tamassrans, and other details about everyday life, which is nice-- and I will say his belief that without the Qun he'll be a mindless beast does fit into the above ('loss of self.')
But apart from that one element, a lot of his characterisation contradicts much of what the Arishok says-- the Arishok frequently rails against 'vices,' for instance. Generally Bull just doesnt seem to behave in any way that indicates he believes in the Qun other than a vague idea that it would be 'healthier.' Solas calls him out on ideological inconsistencies, but also Bull presents very little ideology to begin with. Because apparently he has no clue? It makes Bull the super smart spy seem significantly less knowledgeable than da2's Saarebas, for example. Mostly, Bull just explains life under the Qun in a logistical sense, then does whatever the fuck he wants.
And I know that this hypocrisy/contradiction is a textually explicit element of Bull's character as he struggles with the Qun, but also.... I just feel like the way they fit the "raunchy hedonistic Qunari" character into the Qunari was to just have him go "ehhh idk about any of that im just doing a job." But the idea that this is the rule (rather than Bull being a willful exception) seems like a contradiction... I don't think the Arishok could have converted so many in Kirkwall if all he was saying to them was: "shhhhh..... its okay baby..... would you like to work for free...." There had to be a convincing sales pitch!!! (Even if it's a lie!)
It feels to me that what the Arishok was offering the viddathari was a BETTER explanation, a BETTER alternative to the way the Chantry operated and explained the world. I could easily believe Bull doesn't want to explain the Qun (he wouldn't be the first lol), but it seems odd that he's apparently unable to do so when asked. Like not even a basic party line? An overview? I feel like even I can explain the essence of the Qun well enough and all I did was read a codex entry.
Sorry this got so long rip. But maybe... it would be interesting to compare the Qun to cultic groups, which definitely do employ obfuscating tactics to indoctrinate/control. It feels like they were striving for this in DAI. But tbh I feel like this reading still doesn't rly make sense with what Bull says. I suppose the idea that the figureheads of the Qun "spend their lives figuring that crap out" could be a deliberate lie propagated in order to maintain control over the populace vis a vis "you will never understand this so don't think about it." This could even be a recent development that actually goes against Koslun's teachings. (interesting if true!!)
But even in this reading at the VERY least Bull should be fully able (or even programmed) to regurgitate whatever simplified sales pitch he's been sold all his life about the Qun. You know? Like just bust out a few lines from the Tome of Koslun or something.
So.... it ends up feeling like they just couldn't reconcile Bull's character with the Qun as it was established in da2, then solved this with a whole thing about how mystical and impenetrable it is so he's just brainwashedly following something that he has no clue about. I guess.
I've gone and added my Qunlat Primer to Ao3 to help make it more accessible than just a random internet stranger's Google doc link. It's wonky on mobile, but I'm working on it. :,)
I'll update the Ao3 version every few weeks as I add more terms and phrases! <3
The Google doc has nice highlighter bits and table borders and just looks better imo, so here's the original, too.
Never mind me… just thinking about how interesting it could have been if Solas had been allowed to be, or become, a true villain…
Elgar’nan and Ghilan’nain are all well and good as the Big Bads. Evil for Evil’s sake/I am the only one who can rule the world and the monstrous, mad scientist. Ghilan’nain could have been fabulous if we had seen the true extent of her experimentations.
But Solas? He could have been worse.
The ally you thought was on your side. The friend who stands beside you, aides you, gives advice and information and expertise on things you have absolutely no understanding of…
Only to turn around and stab you in the back.
What you thought you knew was an elaborate fabrication. You truly have no idea just who this person is.
We have seen that Solas is ruthless… can be cold and is extremely calculating. He can be quick to temper with certain subjects and situations and is highly aggressive when cornered.
Can you imagine the sociopathic/psychopathic villain we could have gotten, if we saw a version of him that truly just did not care anymore. His plan is happening, screw everyone and everything that dares stand in his way? No light behind his eyes, there is nothing but The Plan.
How unnerving it could have been to see; the companion you knew (or at least thought you did) from Inquisition kills anyone who stands in his way? Old “friends”? Either join me or die.
Oh how tragic (or epic, depending on your point of view) it would have been to see his fear of becoming Just Like Them (The Evanuris) actually happen.
(sigh) I am once again reminded that Imshael was almost an undercover companion in the Veilguard, poised to turn heel at the very end to betray Rook & co.
Imshael, who manipulates red lyrium and could grow a replacement dagger for the Wolf with a finger snap. Imshael, whose concept art included a greatsword and who could have fought like end-stage Meredith on (more) crack.
Imshael and Fen'harel, supercharged by red lyrium, unleashing hordes of demons and awakening wildly untrained abilities in unsuspecting folks across Thedas; stirring the Titans from their slumber and driving half the dwarves mad in the process.
The god of betrayal and a harbinger of chaos, a ravenous Wolf and a greedy crow, on the hunt for the end of the known world.
Elgar'nan and Ghilan'nain would have been child's play.
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