Daria • She/her • 28yo • INFJ • Multifandom • Drawing and writing, other creative activities • Twitter/X: @derea7ity • DA: @par7ycrasher • Credit the author when reuploading 'n' stuff like that
After watching Vivziepop’s recent interview. If Hazbin Hotel is renewed for season 5, then Sinner Adam is most likely going to be canon. But I’m guessing he’s going to make his epic return in the final season during the last episode of Hazbin Hotel.
But I’m worried if Lute will be able to stay alive long enough to be reunited with her soulmate, Sinner Adam? During the interview, Vivziepop did plan for Adam to die in season 1 and she didn’t really plan for him to return in season 2. But Viv might change her mind after a few years before season 5 is confirmed and give Adam another chance on Hazbin Hotel. Viv can’t ignore the high demand for Adam’s soul being reborn as a demon in Hell. Sinner Adam will be reunited with his guardian angel, Lute. I still believe this could happen in Hazbin Hotel seasons 3, 4, or maybe 5🔥
Considering that Hazbin Hotel will have only five seasons in total, Adam appearing in the very last one is quite late. Narratively, it fits for him to appear in the fourth season, in my opinion. Maybe even in the third, if there's a place for it.
About changing her mind... I think such a plotline like sinner Adam is something you can come up with at an early stage of building your plot. It's a really obvious idea. So I think his fate is already decided. It's either he will come back, or he will not. The second, as I have said many times before, would be a really strange writing choice, if you'd ask me.
If sinner Adam happens, then it's highly likely Lute won't die. Because there's a lot of potential for their storyline in particular. Killing Lute while bringing Adam back will be like, "Why?". So, it all depends on what path Vivz chose, as I wrote more about it in the other ask.
Do you think that, if Adam appeared as a sinner in Hell, then would Lute still be loyal to him and care for him, treating him as an exception from the rest of the other sinners, potentially ‘betraying’ and leaving Heaven and her position of power there behind her? Or would she try to kill, or even just leave him behind, choosing her loyalty to Heaven over Adam because of his new form? Or would Lute have more of a mental meltdown over Adam being alive as a sinner than actually choosing her decision? And what would be the reason for her to choose either possible option?
Also, do you think that Lute truly does love Adam, or is it just because of her intense loyalty to him (as his second in-command exorcist) that she worships him? (regardin both S1 and scenes of Lute hallucinatin Adam and helpin him in Vaggie’s ptsd flashbacks in S2)
im lowkey (and highkey) of da personal belief that Lute lowkey (also midkey and highkey) will treat Adam as an exception, and be like: “oh nah, but Adam doesn’t deserve to be here, or to be anything like them! This has to be a goddamn mistake”, cuz girlie is js that crazy for bro (whether its love or js worship, tho im also of the very personal belief that it’s love) lmao xd
(also Adam needs to come back as a sinnah RAAAAAAAAAHHHH-)
It depends on what Vivz is planning. To be more precise, I meant the tone and path of Lute's story.
If she plans on a grim, dark path, with "some individuals never change" for Lute, then it will all go down Zira's path from TLK2. Lute will become more insane and consumed by her desire to hurt. If Adam appears as a sinner, it will destroy her further because it will shatter all of her beliefs. This will likely result in her trying to massacre everyone, including Adam and even herself in the end.
If the plan is overly optimistic, even romantic, then Lute will immediately stop all of her hatred and plans for revenge when she sees Adam alive, even if he is a sinner. It would be as if her love for Adam is much greater than her loyalty to Heaven and her hatred for Vaggie, etc. She would just stick to Adam and adapt to their circumstances. It would be anti-climactic, but I see that Vivz loves anti-climactic tropes.
Still, I personally think it will be something neutral. Seeing Adam as a sinner will spiral Lute into a huge conflict with herself. Her "hallucination Adam" (if he's truly a hallucination) will probably act as an antagonizing force. I can see her being in disbelief about Adam being a sinner but happy that he's alive. She will question herself many times whether it's truly him or not. She wouldn't know what to do now because everything she believed has turned out wrong. "Hallucination Adam" will try to pull Lute back onto the revenge and hatred route, probably saying that this sinner Adam is some kind of faker and that Lute needs to exterminate him. He will press her duty buttons, demanding her to remember Heaven's laws, what she must do, and what the Hazbin crew did to him, reminding her that she needs to avenge them. This will probably lead Lute to attack sinner Adam a couple of times in her spiraling moments of insanity, trying to exterminate him but with a glimpse of hesitation.
Then, of course, the peak moment will happen, likely where Lute will attempt to do something big and damaging, not only targeting Charlie and Vaggie, but maybe more. That's if Lute goes full evil route. She will be stopped eventually. I don't know exactly who will be the cause or how she's going to be stopped. Maybe it'll be some chaotic moment like "hear my hope," involving a lot of characters at the same time. Personally, I think it would be really poetic if Adam will be the one to stop Lute, finding a way to her and saying the right words, maybe even through song (that would be so cool). It will end with Adam taking care of Lute afterwards, because I think Lute will not recover quickly from her mental struggles. Thus, Adam and Lute will fully become... anti-heroes, I suppose? From villains to anti-heroes. They'll become something like bullies of Charlie and Vaggie, but with no intentions to harm them or stop them from fulfilling their dream anymore. Lute will probably get into fights with Vaggie sometimes, but they won't be serious or harmful anymore, more like, "- oooh, fuck you. - no, fuck you."
This is what I think. Though I understand that in canon there will be something completely different from what I've imagined.
As for Lute loving or worshiping Adam, I'd say love. I guess he's the only one who accepted her as she is, the only one who was there for her, understanding her. I think there is a soul connection between them. It's love.
i kinda have a more like “what does free will actually mean” kinda ask abt Adam, buut here we go >:))))))
If Adam is (was) in Heaven, but he doesn’t have any free will, how exactly does he tell whether something is actually wrong or not? As in like, does Adam actually understand morality, or is he just trying to use his intuition and guess whether something is morally right or wrong, based on what the angels want from him?
guessing from the black and white view he has (while singin Hell is Forever, literally saying:“Cuz the rules are black and white”), it’s prob, imo, bc a) Heaven has that mindset, or b) (kinda the same thing, but ye ;-;) Adam doesn’t actually understand morality and its nuances, so he prob tries to figure out whats good or not by what the angels tell him which is which, basically following and being dependent on whats being told of him, without truly thinking abt it, tho idk if free will kinda just means that he’s dependent, or that he doesn’t know how to be right, or even both ;-; (i also wonder if Lilith does or doesn’t have free will, but i digress xd)
(also, dat post on insta where Viv puts up a board with character servin or not servin C, and even including Adam on that board, is js so goddamn funny i have to mention it in this ask too, its js fueling me and my gut XDD)
The "old" ask, and I'm only answering it now because I'm slow. Sorry if it turns out kind of dull х(
Oh, free will, one of the philosophers favorite topics.
Anyway, Hazbin…
Both Adam and Lilith are interesting cases regarding free will. If they didn't have it, how did Adam even decide to command anything to Lilith, and how did Lilith make the choice to reject him? There's definitely more to their story. In fact, if they didn't have free will, then there was someone who dictated or guided them about what they should and should not do. It's either God, or most probably in the Hazbin universe, higher-up angels.
Adam's psychology is really secretive and masked (lol, irony), so it's hard to tell what he really thinks, feels, and his motivations, etc. This guy managed to not speak about his deal with Lilith, keeping it a secret, but "accidentally" revealed exterminations. If he is completely dumb, then it's really strange to me how he didn't accidentally spill the same about Lilith to Charlie. He had many opportunities to do so, telling her where her mother actually is. I still think there's more to him, but he just hides a lot, exactly like others from the Eden gang. Hopefully, goddamn S3 will finally reveal what kind of drama happened between all of them; we just need to survive all this time.
(Ahaha, yeah, I remember XD)
I'm here to insert a few of my own words about this last Adam situation.
So beware, you know what kind of trigger topics I will mention.
There are the main big takes people conclude about this scene:
1. SA.
No, it didn't happen.
Point 1. Scene Setup.
Structure of Vaggie's Flashback:
First Scene: Lute slaps the unnamed exorcist.
Second Scene: Lute grabs the unnamed exorcist by the hair and carries her away. Vaggie wants to protect her, but Adam prevents her from doing so by grabbing her by the wrist.
Third Scene: Lute gouges out Vaggie's eye.
Fourth Scene: Lute pins Vaggie to the floor with her boot.
Fifth Scene: Vaggie's breakdown after her fall.
There are three whole separate scenes that we've already seen in s1. If they wanted to show us SA, they would have shown it without taking up space with flashbacks we've already seen.
Hazbin isn't afraid to show SA; we saw it already with Angel Dust.
They didn't do this, which means it didn't happen, and we just witnessed typical physical military abuse, and it's not something new.
Something with military or army is always abusive by its nature, in my opinion. So, be surprised by punches or even torture at the army? Nah.
SA exists in the army too, but in that particular case, there's no evidence of it.
Point 2. Overall Meaning.
It's not quite in style with Adam's psychological profile to be a sexual abuser. Now we're moving on to analyzing his profile, which also is the answer to the next take.
2. Adam wouldn't harm his exorcists.
He would, but most likely not directly.
He's a passive abuser, a passive observer like all the other characters in Heaven. "I see what's happening, and I let it happen."
Go rewatch many moments and notice how Lute acts more like a commander than a lieutenant, more cruel than Adam. What is incredibly interesting for me is why he's even allowing so much for her to do. I'm curious about Lute's backstory, really. She's the one directing the process. She's the one hitting that unnamed exorcist; she's the one dragging that exorcist off to who knows where to do who knows what. All Adam does in this scene is keep Vaggie from interfering with Lute.
Now remember s1 and how Vaggie fell. Who made and carried out that decision? Lute. Adam only came to take Vaggie's halo, without interfering with Lute's decision. And this is a commander; I want you to note that.
Also, a rather interesting detail emerges from all the scenes with the exorcists, like the one where Vox shows footage of them.
Where is their commander? Notice how Adam is never around.
Adam lets Lute and the others do what they want, but he himself seems unwilling to do anything. He didn't even want to go down to meet Charlie in s1, doing it through a hologram.
He only really takes action when someone really pisses him off, like when he promised Charlie that he'd personally go down to her hotel and deal with her. That's when he really lets loose, when Lute was no longer there to do everything for him, being too busy with Vaggie. That's when he actually hit Charlie. That's how you show abuse and evil deeds, not with wrist grabbing. So that Vaggie's flashback just showed us once again how he's a passive abuser at most, an evil fool who acts on his temper, not a terrifying villain.
Which, by the way, makes Adam somewhat similar to Lucifer in terms of passive behavior. Inaction, helplessness, and a strong woman by his side who solves all the problems. There's something similar between them.
It's not all that clear-cut, and more information is needed to draw firm conclusions. For now, we still have little, in my opinion. Adam still doesn't come across as a terrifying villain but more like an idiot villain who needs to be controlled, with no offense to his character, but it's true. Hazbin Hotel, if you want to frame Adam as someone terrifying, then do it, because right now he's still a really vague figure.
I know that I'm too often demanding more information, but it's just because Adam is still like this; there's not much about him. So my guess is on Eden; I hope it will finally be revealed there, and everyone will be able to come to a final conclusion about him.
I don't see this being discussed. I think Charlie is angry about the wrong thing regarding Lucifer. She focused on the fact that her father went to bicker with Vox and ruined everything, whereas I was more struck by the situation where he simply LEAVES HER when she needed him the most. Ironic, right?
And I know Lucifer can't do anything to sinners, but that's NOT A REASON AT ALL for him to ABANDON Charlie in such a situation that occurred. Why didn't he just stay by her side instead of running away? You know, I'd be even more angry about that if I were Charlie, not the fact that Lucifer tried something without her knowing about it. He literally left her in front of her own eyes, in the middle of the enraged crowd and Vox taunting everyone. This is so fucked up, really.
And nah, I'm not shitting on Lucifer; I'm saying that his act is fucked up. If he wants to become a good father, then it's clearly not how he needs to behave.
e >:) (lowkey long ask ahead, sorry for that im js rlly curious and excited ;-;)
welp, since da first eps of hazbin S2 have released (and especially episode 2 ;-;), I’m lowkey not rlly sure if Sera does care about Adam, but bc shes a deeply conflicted character (and cuz she found out that redemption is possible), she couldn’t really focus on how she felt abt Adam being dead, or she simply just does not care that he died, since all he did was pretty much annoy her and do the exterminations (which she never rlly was a fan of, but thought it was for da greater good)
Do you think that Sera actually cared about Adam, but because of the way he became, she disliked that, or did she never really care about him to begin with? I lowkey get da feeling that Adam saw her as like, his mom (since bro never had any parents to help him guide thru life and stuff), and maybe that Sera did care abt him, but again, since he started to like killing sinners (his descendants), she kinda became more distant with him, or at least more upset with him, so ye ;-;
Welp, for now, it's still a mystery, actually. So it will be explored later or never. I hope for the first one.
Right now, as you said, Sera is too busy with her arc, so it's not clear what she felt about Adam.
The only reaction that got my attention is when Lute flew up to her and said: "Sera! You know more than anyone here how much Hell has tried to gain power from an uprising! It's only a matter of time! Adam knew it, and now… HE'S DEAD!" And Sera reacts:
This expression rather shows that she just doesn't want to hear about her "mistakes" - exterminations, Adam's death - because it hurts her. Or maybe she's more personal here and reacts like that at the mention of his death, feeling regret.
I think her feelings about "human creations" need to be addressed whenever possible, because from Charlie's book intro, Sera was there:
So, Sera feeling nothing at Adam's death would be really strange for me, even considering that he's boohoo so bad, such an asshole. He's still their creation, just like Eve and Lilith. Almost like kids. Yes, humankind already "failed" them with that tree (though you know for me it's a controversial topic about who let down whom). So maybe she just doesn't care about them because they have already proved "worthless". Thus, she doesn't care that much about his death. Who knows? So to form an opinion, it seems we still need to wait!
"Uh, we don't have hard days? It's fucking heaven, bitch." (c) Adam.
Yeah, right. Of course you do.
The greatest tragedy of our lives is being thrown into existence without any guidance.
I'm not talking about a specifically atheistic view on existence, but rather from a religious point of view. Because, after all, "Hazbin Hotel" explores religious topics.
I'm agnostic, by the way.
And it's more cruel when, in that view of the world, there's a high being that serves as guidance but doesn't provide it to you. Knowing that someone could do it and not receiving it is even rougher than when there's no one up above.
What differs Hell's cast from Heaven's in "Hazbin Hotel" is the emotional intelligence in its whole (tied with some problems with basic logic if you allow me to use that term, though both sides suffer from that). The ability for self-awareness, empathy, and making wise decisions.
All it takes is just to compare how Hell's cast handles Sir Pentious's death and how Heaven's cast handles Adam's.
Everyone remembers Sir Pentious; there's a memorial, Charlie mourning him strongly, and others mourning him in their way too. I'd like to point out that they not only mourn him because he died as a hero, no, they mourn him as a person, a friend, one of them.
Now let's see how Heaven mourned Adam. Not at all.
"The month passed" - well, the same for Hell's cast, but they are still affected. "He was a horrible person" - even the horrible ones get mourned. He was one of them at least, an angel, and no one cares anyway. The huge problem isn't Adam. The huge problem is those in Heaven. Well, at least he got Lute.
So let's start with her… Lute.
Her behavior at the court is so painful to watch. Outside, we can see and hear how she screams about sinners, that redemption is impossible, and that Hell is a threat, but guys… It's not the real reason why she's so hysterical there. Lute at the court is literally screaming for help. All I see and hear is: "The important person to me died, and you all don't fucking care about it, but I can't live without him; it's difficult for me to breathe without him; I don't know what to do because losing him is unbearable for me; please, someone do something." Just count how many times she mentioned Adam, his death, how he was right - all of her focus is on him as a person. But others are so uncaring, so focused on the fact of sinner redeeming. I understand, "she deserved it," "a redeemed sinner is a more important topic for them right now" - well, I will talk about Sir Pentious and how they handled him (spoiler: the same as Lute) later. Now, about "she deserved it." Probably, but losing Adam is already her punishment, and there's no need to worsen it by ignoring that she needs serious help. And if spoken about it coldly, without feelings, not helping and handling Lute is another serious mistake that Heaven can make. Because she's a ticking time bomb, and not taking her seriously will lead to scary and dangerous outcomes.
Sir Pentious.
Actually suffering from Heaven too. Yes, he at least got heard. And Emily is at least trying to help (with summoning golden egg bois concretely). But overall, they are completely in the fog, not understanding what he really needs when he's literally saying what he wants out loud. I'm not saying that Emily needs to go to Sera and casually say to her to bring the shield down. But why not take him at least for a second to see Charlie when she sneaked there? To Hell and back to Heaven for a couple of seconds. Or was it that hard just to talk to him about it, rather than, "eh, you know, I don't think you can see your friends now"? Everyone in Heaven is just TRYING to act empathetic, but in the end, they are failing miserably.
Emotional hygiene and manners are TERRIBLE in Heaven.
Just why does St. Peter start laughing when Abel and Lute speak? Is it really the correct behavior for a situation that Heaven faces?
And you can hate Lute all you want, but for Abel to take his mask on that resembles his father (Lute's love interest) and then fly right into Lute's face is like if you suffered from PTSD and some asshole starts to shove your personal trigger right in your face. No ability to read the room whatsoever or those actions were purposeful.
Sera.
The one who holds the most responsibility and needs to handle everything. Suffering from no one's being here to help her, which causes her to make weird decisions and create more problems. Agreeing to exterminations and placing Adam as the commander of it (I suppose she's responsible for that for now until the show proves me wrong), not considering the redemption question at all and shoving it to Adam to handle, placing Abel as the commander and ignoring Lute's condition. Why in Heaven is she the only one who needs to handle everything anyway? No wonder everything will go downwards. Placing so much on one person is tough.
The Speaker of God is no help at all. Basically, she just says, "Figure everything out by yourself." Good job, thanks. Sera is literally asking for an answer because she can't figure it out by herself, but the answer is still, "Everything's on you."
Thus, the overall situation is that for God, everything is just like a game. Just entertainment. Creating souls and just observing what will happen to them, nothing more, no particular purpose. Just animals at the zoo to watch. At least that's how everything looks now.
Bonus.
Damn, that's a really awesome nameplate there, Adam.
It seems that Lute, obviously, was at his office before, which is making it more angst. Imagine her coming to his office right after his death, crying, screaming his name and hysterically destroying everything.
Oh, about her destroying his things. Grief is different for everybody, but I want to add to that. She's destroying it all because it's unbearable to exist without him, so every time she sees his things, she doesn't feel calmness and the feeling that he's beside her; on the contrary, it makes her feel more pain - that there are his things but he's not there. This unbearable pain transforms into aggression from the realization that she can't do anything to bring him back, that he's gone. Thus, she's destroying his things to make the pain go away, as if Adam never existed at all.
About Abel and the fact that these are "his" things now. A month has passed since Adam's death, right? Who was stopping him from taking everything he wanted before then, when Lute wasn't there? In his place, I would do exactly that to avoid confrontation with Lute and her temper while actually saving some belongings of my father that are important to me. So, him coming to take the guitar following Lute is actually foolish and looks more like he just wanted to piss her off more, if you'd ask me. Just like he does with the mask at the court.
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