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Alisa U Zemlji Chuda

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Aqua Utopia|海の底で記憶を紡ぐ

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@lovedeathalice
amulet
Are there any specific reasons as to why you prefer VD over DV? Just curious, I'm a VD fan myself, but I just like to hear from different sparda bro shippers why they prefer certain dynamics :)
yes. too many to list here. i will try, though you'll have to deal with my arguments being haphazard and somewhat incomplete, in lieu of the 753737-page essay the topic deserves.
vergil is, canonically, in every thing he has said and done (and not), a doer. he is the instigator, the driver. he is the unstoppable force: a taker of direct action. not always because he wants to be, mind--because the more you think about his and Dante's situation in 3 and 5 the more it should become apparent that he often doesn't have any or many options available to him besides the one he must "choose"; he is willing to suffocate his wants for his needs, to the point where the line between them blurs--but definitely of his own volition. a vergil who does not have or take control of the situation is a dead vergil, an enslaved vergil. his will forced to break to another; angelo.
so. what does this have to do with topping. this is where dante's role is important. dante who waits, dante who endures. passive. the immovable object--he is sessile, he does not instigate. he waits and waits for things to happen To him; he needs to be spurred into action. vergil happens to be the only thing that properly lights a fire under his ass. already he is more aligned with the penetratee than the penetrator--he even jokes about it in 5, lol.
(side note: it drives me crazy when i see fanstuff of vergil & dante's fight on top of the temen-ni-gru where dante's the one stabbing vergil with yamato /the rebellion. for some reason. like, no, hey, the fact that that did not happen, that it was decidedly the other way around, is important! both to the story and the characters--dante never stabbed vergil through with the rebellion because he never even got the chance! or had an actual reason-cum-motivation to do so, like vergil did. the closest dante got was when he cut though him after he their final fight--a crude, clumsy, ultimately aimless thing [which vergil Allowed him, mind: dante surely torments himself about it later and for ever] compared to vergil's careful, direct precision when forcing dante to awaken his powers. i can't wrap my head around it, reversing their roles as if it doesn't completely upend them as characters, too)
dante also embodies "the home" in many ways: the DMC office is a grounded, established, permanent "base" (unlike vergil, who likely got by sleeping outdoors in defensible hovels and holes and damp alleyways, no home or semblance of it to his name after the fire; no attempt to reclaim what he knows to be lost, unlike dante, who drowns himself in effigies); his resemblance & adherence to his mother and her wishes: her association with red, the responsibility/ burden she cosigned him to when she told him he should "be strong, like a man". the home, aside from the obvious associations with domesticity and femininity (the "receiver", the "nurturer", etc), is the thing which the hero must reclaim and return to, at the end of an epic journey. the home suffers in the hero's absence: it is taken advantage of, it is defiled, derelict; loses its glory when untended. if dmc5 and the events that happen before it (DMC as a whole, really) were told strictly from vergil's perspective, it'd be one big odyssey. dante is vergil's penelope: the person who has endured his absence to whom he must return to and reunite with, and most importantly, be accepted by. a role that is, by definition and necessity, distinctly passive; where any action taken is always an indirect one. there's lots of fun to be had with this idea, in general. overall the story makes more sense when you read vergil as the one who must return to dante, and dante as the one who must wait for him. again, more of the active/passive dichotomy.
another thing, perhaps more directly tied to DMC than the obvious literary allusions (even though DMC is full of those and they absolutely shouldn't be dismissed because "it's not that deep", or whatever excuses people have for not wanting to use their brains when it comes to discussing a given text these days) (not to mention the divine comedy. Virgil the Guide, etc etc etc) is dante's bleeding, bloody guilt over basically every aspect of his existence. he has proven time and time and again that he does not give a shit about his health or well being, or life, or the lives of humans or demons or whatever. that the guilt does not appear at the forefront of the story or his dialogue ought to clue you in to just how immensely it weighs on him; the devil's cry "sounds" (fuckkk nero) like deathless silence, dante's lips mouthing out vergil's name after the rain. that guilt simply cannot allow dante to take control away from vergil (him being a force of nature, for whom cessation would equal to death or imprisonment; that is, vergil's control over his body, his mobility: the maintenance of self when putting himself into someone else's body rather than the surrender of it when allowing someone into his; his freedom) and, more critically, to put that control into his own hands--we know what happens when dante has the upper hand on vergil. "you can do better than that", blood and dust and barbed words spilling from his tongue when the only thing he is in that moment is desperate, clumsy. he is crass, indelicate, because he is, at his core, hollow, and thus fragile--takes to false bravado and levity more than he does the sheer, honest truth to which vergil dooms himself to live by. the mere thought might turn him off so much he wouldn't be able to get it up, nevermind fuck with it.
there is more to say here, especially with regard to dante taking on a more assertive/dominant role, and vergil a more submissive one. that is: they'd both very much be into it--dante pushing back, which is what he'd do even when being submissive. vergil might try to bend dante to his will, but part of what makes dante Dante is his stubbornness(/rebellion, ha)--vergil knows this, depends on it; trusts it with his life. but ultimately their dynamic remains constant. vergil needs to be the one calling the shots, for himself and for dante, and not necessarily entirely for his own sake; dante cannot trust himself enough to do so for either of them (at least, not to the extent which vergil can, and does). only one of them is truly practiced at being gentle with his brother.
the only thing i'll say about DV is that, fundamentally, i don't think vergil & dante can remain in character with that kind of relationship dynamic. and while all fanstuff is inherently a deviation from the source material, i'd rather not start overwriting canon, or at least my understanding of it, with ideas that completely ignore or go against it. dante being able or willing to top vergil is one of those ideas; vergil needs dante, but only at his absolute lowest and weakest and worst (i.e. when he's literally dying or already dead) is he ever truly at his mercy. dante would need to be in a position where he Could, even, take that "power" away from vergil--vergil's will would have to break under his, and. well. only one demon has managed that, and i cannot fathom that kind of relationship existing between them. forgetting vergil for a moment--dante himself can't handle it.
They constantly argue AND are brothers. Get on my level
Yaaas (๑꒪▿꒪)*
Vergil's son biologically, and Dante's son in every other way😂
That fic you wrote?
The one about the ship no one else cares about, or the deeply unpopular character, or the extremely unusual AU?
The fic that got no comments or kudos when you posted it?
Months or years from now, that fic might be exactly what someone is looking for in the sea of fics about all the popular characters, ships, and AUs.
Your fic might be the only fic out there that has what someone is looking for. The only fic that scratches the itch that it turns out you and that reader share.
And that's awesome.
The problem is it'd be nice to have all that now, not years later when I don't even care about it anymore😞 It's just not the same.
The fun thing of the netflix series is despite they try so hard to desguise it as some normie het love story, all the scenes of ladydan come as horribly forced and physically akward as possible, to the point no even their own shippers like them for how ugly they end up looking
Meanwhile everytime the twins are together you have this atmosphere of intimancy, drama but also desire of be together despite claim otherwise
Hell Dante quite literally says "I can't lose you again after found you" with big sad puppy eyes and Vergil looks like he's about to cry too
And they act surprised this attrack twincest shippers like sweet to a flies lol
I'm neutral to game danIady but show danIady is undoubtedly fucking AWFUL.
Would you seriously just magically fall in love with someone after one kiss, after they repeatedly lied to you, betrayed you, used you, and were the reason you were in captivity for months???!?!?? Oh and you've only known them for only a few months. Yeah I don't think so.
Game Dante would NEVER stand for that sort of treatment and betrayal, so the show making Dante a weak pathetic doormat bitch is so infuriating😭😭😭
Also this tweet made me laugh bc it's literally their relationship in the show😂
The show sidelining Vergil in favor of trying to shoehorn Lady as the humanity in Dante's life when that was simply never the case in the games is just abysmal. Not to mention the danIady buildup in the show is nonexistent.
Vergil & Dante's relationship is so compelling because of just how much they revolve around each other. They were and still are the center of each other's journeys. They're so intertwined. Even when they were apart, they were constantly being haunted by each other, haunting each other's thoughts, they were what they'd think about in both their best & worst moments.
Trying to replace either of them with another character is so forced and simply does not work.
There's just a single time Dante stands for himself, and yet it obviously is twisted as if he was the unreasonable one and they still manage to put Mary as the real victim
Is frustrating, because isn't like they can't convey Dante actual personality if they want
In any case, this atrocious excuse of a romantic relationship feels extremely manipulative, abusive and one sided with Dante having little to no agency at all in the whole matter
The whole season Dante is desperate for reunite with Vergil again and he's almost excited as a child for the idea of reunite with his twin, but Mary is always there to stop him and try to grab his attention somehow. It kinda feels intentional, and she keeps manipulating him because at core she always intended to use Dante as a mere tool for stop Vergil rampage
And that's exactly how it ended ironically, once Dante serve his porpuse and Mary no longer needed him she just runs off to do her own stuff without even check if he's okay or alive
While Dante ends up alone, emotionally and physically destroyed after loosing Vergil once again as he feared
Is unfair and cruel in so many levels
The fact that they passed off that dialogue Dante made in the cutscene after he's removed from cryo as a "joke" when that is in line with how canon game Dante would respond is just ridiculous.
Also, hot take but if Iady was a guy people would clearly see how manipulative and abusive her behaviors are. But because she's a woman those mind games and her using Dante are all passed off as "girlboss" behaviors.
Dante is treated like a tool and a joke in a story that is supposed to be his and it's sad. Vergil & Dante's relationship being treated as secondary to some horribly forced relationship just destroys the core of dmc. Like wrap it up, this shit doesn't work unless the twins are the center of it all.
dmc3 vd misc
3VD with Nero oh my god I'm gonna cry. I love this so much. This means so much to me.
The fun thing of the netflix series is despite they try so hard to desguise it as some normie het love story, all the scenes of ladydan come as horribly forced and physically akward as possible, to the point no even their own shippers like them for how ugly they end up looking
Meanwhile everytime the twins are together you have this atmosphere of intimancy, drama but also desire of be together despite claim otherwise
Hell Dante quite literally says "I can't lose you again after found you" with big sad puppy eyes and Vergil looks like he's about to cry too
And they act surprised this attrack twincest shippers like sweet to a flies lol
I'm neutral to game danIady but show danIady is undoubtedly fucking AWFUL.
Would you seriously just magically fall in love with someone after one kiss, after they repeatedly lied to you, betrayed you, used you, and were the reason you were in captivity for months???!?!?? Oh and you've only known them for only a few months. Yeah I don't think so.
Game Dante would NEVER stand for that sort of treatment and betrayal, so the show making Dante a weak pathetic doormat bitch is so infuriating😭😭😭
Also this tweet made me laugh bc it's literally their relationship in the show😂
The show sidelining Vergil in favor of trying to shoehorn Lady as the humanity in Dante's life when that was simply never the case in the games is just abysmal. Not to mention the danIady buildup in the show is nonexistent.
Vergil & Dante's relationship is so compelling because of just how much they revolve around each other. They were and still are the center of each other's journeys. They're so intertwined. Even when they were apart, they were constantly being haunted by each other, haunting each other's thoughts, they were what they'd think about in both their best & worst moments.
Trying to replace either of them with another character is so forced and simply does not work.
lord take all my friends and mutuals suffering and give it to adi shankar. amen
Well, well go ahead and confront your brother dear. We know you can't wait anymore, nothing is stoping you
*proceed to show his birthing hips*
I know your game Netflix...
(Real frame of the show btw)
Damm, Vergil is eating his whole birthday cake
Ok this season was DOGSHIT and totally shit on everything about the games
BUT
I am also a fucking hypocrite because I am rubbing my hands together and salivating KNOWING there WILL be an influx of DanVer/VerDan shippers is coming
TWINCEST SHALL PREVAIL BITCHES
remember what vergil said in the pgr collab? "everyone yearns for moments of protection, and.. love.. what of you? do you, too, desire such moments?"
i don't know, vergil dearest, do YOU?
of course he'd say something like that in such a roundabout way. never explicitly state what he wants. this quote holds so much weight!!! it only goes to show that he's deeply emotional, and actually conceals it pretty poorly... he truly does not seem to be enjoying denying himself his needs and wants.
i just KNOW this rat would rather wilt than ask someone for a hug. but he NEEDS one.
now on a more serious note, imagine how he'd melt from affection. if there's someone out there to make the ice around him thaw, he'd be wrapped around their finger. "dominant" my ass. just spoil this guy rotten. he deserves it despite being naughty as in literally committing a long list of war crimes and acts of terrorism
i know that the collab is kind of in a gray space for canon, but.. y'know. it makes me Think of Things
What frustrates me is that people act like Dante’s importance in Vergil’s life somehow doesn’t exist, when DMC5 is literally about Vergil accepting that power alone cannot fulfill him. The entire ending is Vergil finally stopping his endless escape from emotion, vulnerability, and from Dante himself.
Dante is quite literally the person who keeps Vergil connected to his humanity. Even back in DMC3, Vergil constantly holds himself back with Dante in ways he never does with anyone else. He could kill him multiple times and doesn’t, because beneath all the violence and ideology, Dante matters more to him than his pursuit of power ever did.
That’s why the ending of DMC5 feels so important: it’s not just “the brothers stop fighting.” It’s Vergil finally accepting Dante’s love, protection, and presence in his life instead of running from it. That’s the entire emotional core of the game.
Dante standing in the corner once again watching the fandom reduce his importance in Vergil’s life as if he didn’t literally choose to stay in Hell forever just to protect and stay beside him. As if BOTH of them weren’t genuinely happy with that ending after everything they’ve been through.
Like Dante isn’t the axis Vergil’s entire life revolves around.
Like Vergil doesn’t completely fall apart the moment he realizes he cannot lose Dante. The moment he understands that Dante loves him, will stay beside him, protect him, and that for once in his life he’s allowed to feel safe and vulnerable with someone.
I swear to God, between the people insisting Vergil secretly loves Nero's mom, or would somehow become a wholesome dad overnight, and the people who completely erase Dante because they’re too attached to the idea of some woman “saving” Vergil from himself… I genuinely don’t know which take is worse 😭
Genuinely WHY do people hold the value of a random NPC in one cutscene who was literally just there as a plot device to explain Nero's existence over freaking DANTE😭
It literally makes me wanna rip my hair out when the dumbass dmc fandom genuinely thinks Vergil is hung up on some random ass woman from when he was a teen who he never even cared to mention ONCE on his own.
Don't you think that if she were so important, that in the multiple volumes of Visions of V that explore Vergil's character, thoughts, internal conflict, and emotions in depth, that she would have been mentioned at all??? But no. She isn't even alluded to in Vergil's thoughts, not even implied, not even once.
In the 11 years between DMC4 and DMC5's release, the writers never cared to make any sort of story or any actual importance of Nero's mother at all. She was literally just an afterthought for the DMC4 special edition💀
It's become quite glaringly obvious that since she's a faceless random object, that she's the perfect blank slate of a self-insert for fangirls to use to fulfill their "Soft woman fixes big bad man" fantasies with. It's so ridiculous.
the way i’ve found the same exact posts about this a few days ago is insane lmfao, they even went far as talking about “well vergil just came back from the dead ofc he wouldn’t remember her” my brother, if she was really THAT important to him—she would’ve atleast implied or mentioned in the vision of v, where we get to see vergil and his inner mental state and thoughts.
and they also went far as saying that she is someone important to the point vergil didn’t even want to talk about it to dante (referring to that one scene in pgr when he told dante to shut up when dante asked vergil who’s his bm). like maybe, maybe do yall ever thinking that he didn’t want to talk abt it cz he totally forgot (not even bcs of the whole back from the dead stuff, he genuinely didn’t really care) abt that and just remembered that he ever “had fun”? or even worse he remembered how it was one of the weakest moment of his life?
he met her when he was around 16—based on my own observation and personal experience—16 is the age where most teenagers got their first body, he was prolly like “damn m’lonely asf” and went “goddamn that was a moment of weakness, NEVER again” after and ran off to arkham then raised temen-ni-gru.
yall really flatten his complex history, trauma, and character into a one “he just need the right woman” narrative—just let vergil be a cold, ruthless, selfish character without putting some teenager fantasies about saving a man bro. like not even his twin, his brother, his other half, his equal, his rival, his last connection to his humanity can save him—what makes yall think a random woman he just met able save his entire life? can lift up his entire trauma? yall bob the builder or sumn?
listen girl (neutral), i ain’t against the idea that some people love to insert themselves into a relationship with certain characters, but yall genuinely pushing it by treating it as a canon.
The only so-called evidence they can bring up of him "caring" about her being from a non-canon mobile game collab is hilarious. Talk about grasping at straws😂
I also like how, in DMC 5 before Dante & Vergil's fight, the fandom conveniently prefers Vergil's Japanese dialogue when Nero is brought up: "My son? I don't know anything about him." as opposed to the English: "My son means nothing to me."
Yet oddly reject Vergil's Japanese dialogue of: "Like you (Dante), I've had my nights of fun."/ "I was young once too." (Yup, that is originally VERGIL'S line in other versions, not Dante's!) as opposed to the English: "Well, well, that was a long time ago." because it doesn't fit their weird narrative that Vergil was head over heels for some random woman who apparently softened him up. Instead, the Japanese dialogue as well as other versions blatantly showcase how she was just a fling/one night stand, and probably not the only one. Being young and alone, he definitely put his guard down before, but that "guard down" clearly didn't equal some undying love that he held onto throughout his life at all.
And speaking of grasping at straws, "He cared about her so much that he doesn't want to talk about her" LMAOOO seriously? That's what they're going with?😭
Let's humor that a bit. Vergil avoiding it kind of makes sense. But V??? V was Vergil's vulnerabilities in its ultimate form. His humanity. Something he rejected and viewed as his weakness his whole life. His weaknesses, his nightmares, his vices, facing himself, recalling his journey from start to present– that was all laid bare in him as V. He, in fact, DID remember all that. So for someone so apparently as important to Vergil as Nero's mother to never make a single appearance, to not even have a single reference to them, speaks volumes.
The fandom doing the absolute most to erase Dante CANONICALLY being the most important person in Vergil's life is just insane. Like sure, ignore years worth of games, novels, and manga of Vergil's entire inner conflict and journey revolving around his trauma, his brother, and his relationship with him in favor of a random NPC, I guess???
Listen, people can self-insert and have fun with whatever, I agree, but I really do dislike the Vergil x red NPC ship the most because of just how much it debases his entire character. It completely reduces him down to this stereotypical, "brooding cold guy who was magically enraptured by the perfect woman" shoujo archetype. Like seriously? Where did that even come from? To reduce him, his story, and motivations down to being in love with some random woman? Yeah that is NOT vergil lmao
remember what vergil said in the pgr collab? "everyone yearns for moments of protection, and.. love.. what of you? do you, too, desire such moments?"
i don't know, vergil dearest, do YOU?
of course he'd say something like that in such a roundabout way. never explicitly state what he wants. this quote holds so much weight!!! it only goes to show that he's deeply emotional, and actually conceals it pretty poorly... he truly does not seem to be enjoying denying himself his needs and wants.
i just KNOW this rat would rather wilt than ask someone for a hug. but he NEEDS one.
now on a more serious note, imagine how he'd melt from affection. if there's someone out there to make the ice around him thaw, he'd be wrapped around their finger. "dominant" my ass. just spoil this guy rotten. he deserves it despite being naughty as in literally committing a long list of war crimes and acts of terrorism
i know that the collab is kind of in a gray space for canon, but.. y'know. it makes me Think of Things
What frustrates me is that people act like Dante’s importance in Vergil’s life somehow doesn’t exist, when DMC5 is literally about Vergil accepting that power alone cannot fulfill him. The entire ending is Vergil finally stopping his endless escape from emotion, vulnerability, and from Dante himself.
Dante is quite literally the person who keeps Vergil connected to his humanity. Even back in DMC3, Vergil constantly holds himself back with Dante in ways he never does with anyone else. He could kill him multiple times and doesn’t, because beneath all the violence and ideology, Dante matters more to him than his pursuit of power ever did.
That’s why the ending of DMC5 feels so important: it’s not just “the brothers stop fighting.” It’s Vergil finally accepting Dante’s love, protection, and presence in his life instead of running from it. That’s the entire emotional core of the game.
Dante standing in the corner once again watching the fandom reduce his importance in Vergil’s life as if he didn’t literally choose to stay in Hell forever just to protect and stay beside him. As if BOTH of them weren’t genuinely happy with that ending after everything they’ve been through.
Like Dante isn’t the axis Vergil’s entire life revolves around.
Like Vergil doesn’t completely fall apart the moment he realizes he cannot lose Dante. The moment he understands that Dante loves him, will stay beside him, protect him, and that for once in his life he’s allowed to feel safe and vulnerable with someone.
I swear to God, between the people insisting Vergil secretly loves Nero's mom, or would somehow become a wholesome dad overnight, and the people who completely erase Dante because they’re too attached to the idea of some woman “saving” Vergil from himself… I genuinely don’t know which take is worse 😭
Genuinely WHY do people hold the value of a random NPC in one cutscene who was literally just there as a plot device to explain Nero's existence over freaking DANTE😭
It literally makes me wanna rip my hair out when the dumbass dmc fandom genuinely thinks Vergil is hung up on some random ass woman from when he was a teen who he never even cared to mention ONCE on his own.
Don't you think that if she were so important, that in the multiple volumes of Visions of V that explore Vergil's character, thoughts, internal conflict, and emotions in depth, that she would have been mentioned at all??? But no. She isn't even alluded to in Vergil's thoughts, not even implied, not even once.
In the 11 years between DMC4 and DMC5's release, the writers never cared to make any sort of story or any actual importance of Nero's mother at all. She was literally just an afterthought for the DMC4 special edition💀
It's become quite glaringly obvious that since she's a faceless random object, that she's the perfect blank slate of a self-insert for fangirls to use to fulfill their "Soft woman fixes big bad man" fantasies with. It's so ridiculous.
*looking at myself in the mirror*
Fanfiction is supposed to be cringy. You're allowed to write bad. You're allowed to be cringe. Fanfiction is supposed to be self indulgent. You're allowed to be cringe. Let yourself be cringe. Fanfiction is supposed to be fun. Stop putting arbitrary rules on yourself and be free.
Seeing the reactions in other social media to Vergil making to put his sword inside him is very funny because it shows how a lot of twincest enjoyers had to idea how deep DMC is rooted on this, since these are audience who only know the show but not the games
Is endearing see their awekening in real time
No cuz anyone who says that music trailer isn't sexually charged is in denial and blind as FUCK😭😭😭
I will begrudgingly admit that I am now excited for the anime for the sole fact that I get to see my favorite twins interacting again!!!
And OMG. You have NO idea just how fucking pumped I am for non-gaming twin fuckers to watch the show and get into them😭 like I am HYPED for the TWINCEST and the twincest ONLY!!!
stupid teenagers
I would like to report that the homoerotic stabbing is still very much alive and well in Netflix May Cry.
The freaks stay winning.
Vergil is enjoying this like crazy, just look at that smirk
After so many years the heat of the moment must be otherworldly
MORE SPARDACEST YASSSS