OrangeCherry

[orenjisakuranbo]

Why do you still stick to naruto? The manga really declined and wasn't really good

Naruto is not the best manga or anime and there are plenty of better written stories but to me it's my favorite shounen anime/manga despite all it's flaws I really like the characters and the world Kishimoto created and that is enough for me to still stick with it.

[orenjisakuranbo]

In the recent boruto chapter of the manga, Hinata is watching a soup opera that is kinda similar to the scene of sasuke leaving the village, I know this might sound like a huge stretch, but do you think this could be related to your theory? Like if we look it in universe, as if it was some sort of show base in naruto's life I doubt they would've told them about all those detail. And it can't be coincidence bc in this kind of medium that's imposible, authors always have to have in mind every single detail, and it was a kinda unnecessary scene to put there.

I don't think the soap opera Hinata was watching was that meaningful any relations to SS is mostly imagined by SS shippers, because there is no context to the lines of the soap opera. - Woman: "But why?, why do you have to go?!" Man: "It's got to be me, I'm sorry".

The lines don't explain where the man is going or anything about what exactly he wants to do, or what kind of relationship the man and woman even have, are they married? or just dating? or maybe they are siblings, you could see Sasusaku in it or could see Minakushi or any other ship that ever had to leave each other or one sacrifice themselves for something. (honestly it's just typical soap opera stuff and it looks to me Kishimoto is making fun of it.)

Now if there was some strange things in this chapter that do connect to the theory it would be, Fatachi the shinobi spying on them (aka "big brother") with the famous pose on the power lines and the moon in the background as if he is about to commit a massacre.

Also the chapter wasted 5 pages on Sasuke with a few fodders doing nothing, that is a lot more suspicious than the soap opera, why would Kishimoto put that in there it feels weird, maybe this could have some hidden meaning to it or he is foreshadowing something.

[orenjisakuranbo]

So according to you they still are in the tsukuyomi, but they're not in individual dreams but in a collective one. Do you know where I can read more about this theory, or are you the one working on it? Bc it's pretty interesting

Well I didn't create the theory, it pretty much existed maybe even before Naruto's manga ended it has a few different variations and you can probably do a google search and find some material about it, but I did notice a general lack of in-depth analysis on the theory, and that is something I want to change and expand on the theory with my own take on it.

I have an upcoming post focusing on some events from the war arc that connects directly to the theory. and also I am planning to make some posts regarding Boruto and the role the next gen plays in the theory.

[orenjisakuranbo]

Something confuses me but why does the team 7 picture needed to be changed? Like in your tsukuyomi theory but why is it even necessary? Like what difference would it be if naruto was glaring at sasuke and sasuke is looking away to the boruto series?

Exactly it didn't need to change at all, so why did it?

That is where the Infinite Tsukuyomi theory comes in.

It was shown in the movie road to ninja that the prototype genjutsu to infinite tsukuyomi, the limited tsukuyomi created a mirror world, but not everything was identical there were characters having opposite personality traits and many other big or small changes.

Naruto is now facing away from Sasuke opposite to his position in the original picture, or in other words he is now a reflection/mirror image of the original picture.

so basically the picture is changed to show us that the world in Boruto is not identical to the original Naruto series.

[orenjisakuranbo]

Why does it feel like kishi doesn't know how to write his characters in boruto

Ever since Kishimoto took over Boruto manga writing, the direction of the story become unclear, the new characters he introduced are full of hax powers, but I kind like them better than Isshiki, Delta and Boro, they feel a bit more human even though they are scientific ninja tool modified people (Cyborgs), as for other characters Kishimoto barely gives them any screen time if their name isn't Boruto or Kawaki and those two writing is mostly just a continuation of Kodachis writing, I think Kishimoto didn't change much about them. If you want a reason why it feels that Kishimoto doesn't know how to write his characters, the Infinite Tsukuyomi theory is the only possible story explanation for that in my opinion, it means KIshimoto is deliberately writing them different and he can create any weirdo character with any power he wants them to have as there is no rules in a dream world, or we can believe that Kishimoto just doesn't give a damn about his characters, story and world he created.

[orenjisakuranbo]

Who is the author of boruto? Because seriously way to butcher characters

Ukyo Kodachi was the writer of Boruto until chapter 51 of the manga with Mikio Ikemoto illustrating and Masashi Kishimoto supervising.

From chapter 52 Kodachi left and Kishimoto took over writing duties.

[orenjisakuranbo]

I've always liked the tsukuyomi theory, and I actually realized the change that the photo had from Naruto to Boruto a little ago bc I'm working on a fanfic about this. I don't know if you have notice some other things that could help me, bc I think you're making some good points, and making realize some other things.

Yeah there are definitely a lot more I noticed in the plot that could suggest the theory might be true.

I have some ideas for future posts on the subject, maybe they will help you.

Something interesting I thought about, is that almost all of the foreshadowing regarding the sage of six paths his sons and Kaguya were all done by either the masked man (Obito as Madara) or Madara himself, everybody believed the sage to be a myth and the rinnegan to just be a mutation, except for Madara and Obito, but when the sage popped up in the story no one seemed that shocked or surprised as if it's totally normal for a guy from mythical stories to just come back from the afterlife and start talking about his sons and mother.

Even the final fight between Naruto and Sasuke was foreshadowed and promised by the masked man, he told them he would set a more proper stage for it (when they met after the kage summit) and also he said to Naruto when he talked to him about Sasuke that it was the Uchiha and Senju destiny to fight just as the sons of the sage once did so he even foreshadowed the brothers feud.

It also puts into new perspective Sakuke telling Naruto in chapter 699 that he would hold on to the headband until they have their real fight.

Another thing is all the characters design changes, some characters had such an extreme change that they become like a road to ninja version of themselves, like Hanabi for example from stoic barely showing any emotions to a happy go lucky personality, or Anko from bloodthirsty to kind and well also fat, Konohamaru suddenly has blue eyes for some reason and brighter hair color. It seems similarly to the movie the further away from the epicenter of the jutsu was cast the bigger the changes of the characters become.

[orenjisakuranbo]

Eh honestly i would have preferred the manga to be longer, the naruto manga fills rushed to end and not only that kishi allows the animators/editors to make changes (him doing what they suggest or want) at least maybe the manga would be good?

Ye the ending was rushed, it feels like it could had another arc after the war arc, and still might not be enough to close all plot threads, the editors definitely have a lot of influence on the story's direction but I still think Kishimoto is the one that decides ultimately if to listen to his editors or do what he believes in,

The editors role is not to get in the way of the creator they are there to help him make the best from what he tells them he wants to do. how did things turn the way they did we can only speculate, perhaps Kishimoto was getting tired from the manga after 15 years and really just needed a long break, so he rushed to reach an ending but not the true ending he originally planned.

[orenjisakuranbo]

What was bad about the pain arc? Although what i don't like is that by the end naruto's talking to nagato and nagato bring everyone to life but that's just me

nothing was bad in my opinion in the pain arc, you might of misread one of my previous answers I said after the pain arc the story quality was declining.

I personally liked the talk no jutsu it was important for the growth of Naruto as a character, the reviving part does cheapen the arc a bit, but it wasn't surprising to me, after all Kakashi was one of the most popular characters in the manga it was unlikely for Kishimoto to keep him dead.

[orenjisakuranbo]

I would love that the infinite tsukuyomi theorie was real, but don't you think that's been a little too long for it to be? Like I don't like Boruto and I think is all over the place, but 5 years of story is a little too much for that.

If this was any other medium other than manga than I would agree 5 years is a long time for a twist like that.

but Naruto's manga has taken approx 4 years just for the war arc, other manga series like one piece is going on for 24 years and still has a few years left until it's ending according to it's creator. Jojo's bizzare adventure is still on going after 34 years. Golgo 13 started in 1968 and still ongoing, and there are plenty other popular manga that are over 30 year old, compared to that Naruto's 15 year run seem even a little bit short.

[orenjisakuranbo]

If it's a tsukiyomi who tsukiyomi dream do you think it is?

I think the answer was already partially given to us in the movie road to ninja, it is not one person dreaming, it is a shared one single dream world that grants each individual greatest wishes at the time of the jutsu being cast.

The concept is also somewhat similar to the movie the matrix, where humanity lives in a digital fake world that imitates a real one in order avoid people realizing they are in a fake reality.

Edit:

I forgot to mention that in the manga there was some evidence to this possibility, for example:

notice when he says a single world and not everyone living their own happy dreams in their own world.

the next page again Obito states it would be a single unending dream

Also when Madara explains the Infinite Tsukuyomi to Obito in his explanation it’s implied it supposed to be a single place where everyone will be brought over to, basically create a new world made from genjutsu that fits their version of an ideal world, than everyone will be taken to that world just as Naruto and Sakura were taken to another world/reality in road to ninja movie. 

[orenjisakuranbo]

I actually didn't notice that they changed team 7s photo seriously like kishi doesn't give a damn about his manga for allowing others to freely do anything they want

Yeah, I didn't notice the picture change at first as well, the original picture final appearance is around chapter 640 of the Naruto manga than we never see it again.

It is later replaced by the new picture that appeared in the Boruto movie first (made by Kishimoto), than in shippuden last season ending (post war arc), and the picture is used in the boruto manga and anime on a few occasions. basically Kishimoto is the one that changed the picture to begin with.

While it's possible that Kishimoto doesn't care, I still have a bit of hope he does care and all of this is some elaborate genjutsu plotline.

[orenjisakuranbo]

Lmao so basically konohamaru is stronger than naruto and sasuke? Since he doesn't get hurt from kara members unlike the 2 known strongest...

Well to be fair this type of plot armor exists for all important characters including Naruto and Sasuke, it's just Konohamaru is easily most obvious because he is just a normal ninja, no superpowers or an alien inside of him or he isn't some scientific tool etc...

Mitsuki, Kawaki, Boruto and Sarada also fought a kara member that "killed" them more than once during their fight and they were all walked out of it with little to no injury, except Sarada that needed a day or two in the hospital after her whole body was crushed by a giant hand, the plot armor for main characters is over the top in Boruto to the point there is no real sense of danger to any of the important characters.

[orenjisakuranbo]

Konohamaru’s plot armor is ridiculous

He gets hit in the face by energy projectiles, and gets to walk it off like nothing happened.

He pushes Boruto out of the way of a drone laser beam that lights up Konohamaru, but he gets up again as if nothing happened.

He gets burned alive by the same flames that killed a kara member who had fast regeneration powers and that guy died in matter of seconds, but Konohamaru gets up after being burned for a good minute or so and he has no burn marks or any severe injuries.

So either he mastered Izanagi and has some Uchiha eyes implanted on his ass, or maybe he can’t die no matter what, because this is all a dream.

[orenjisakuranbo]

Team 7 real photo

Team 7 Infinite Tsukuyomi photo 

[orenjisakuranbo]

When did you think the manga turned for the worst because biases aside feels like the manga went off somewhere

I think that after the Pain arc there was already a decline in quality, but that doesn't mean everything was bad, the war arc had it's ups and downs, but by the end of it things were really bad.

If I had to put my finger on an exact moment that made me go what the hell is going on here, it would be the reincarnation stuff that had no place in the story, it was trying to force a retcon down our throats, not to mention the convenient nonsense power ups and the absurd twists like Madara manipulating Obito, than turns out black Zetsu was manipulating Madara all along. Also can't forget the out of nowhere appearance of an alien as a final antagonist, and so many other annoying things all happening around the last 30 chapters of the manga.

[orenjisakuranbo]

from the very beginning [of shippuden maybe] it's obvious that hinata will get naruto the animators made it obvious :(

Well SP definitely made a mess of things, but I think it's the Pain arc that really showed their true colors and intentions, when they had one panel of Hinata flying in the air after a shinra tensei and they adapted it to an actual fight where she seems to actually do something and look brave and cool, but in the manga none of that is there.

Hinata doesn't even exist until the chunin exams while SP added her from episode 3 to the anime, making people believe she was an important character, when in reality she was always just a small side character.