dec 15 ‘15, Mt Kulun chronicle’s feature lacking set pieces
Background: Neople added a unique Global-only feature to Mt Kulun of being able to farm for materials to exchange with chronicle pieces. Only issue is that set pieces, which are the chronicle pieces 98% of the players do OV for, are not accessible. Someone suggested a possible loophole of converting the ordinary/cracked boxes back into fragment pots at saint horn NPCs. However this “trick” likely won’t work due to a clause in saint horn NPCs.
If the trick doesn't work and it's just ordinary pieces with sets intentionally left out, then what's the whole point? 98%+ of the people doing ov are doing it for sets, regular chron is better than magic seals but no where near set-tier for most classes. Only other option is epic sets which are out of the question. It's not like they owe us anything as they were trying to help solve this problem, likewise with the shoving of inter frags in events. It's like the bingo event, where they mistakenly forgot to add the frags in account bound boxes, a problem they addressed in the account bound 100 frags from TI and hot time events (open the event book on dfo and you'll see). Might not be the greatest solution but they've realized the problem and are attempting to fix it.
Hopefully this will be like the New player FP problem, which was remedied (to what effectiveness idk) by Seria's Greeting permanently.
Even if it the trick would work, is it really that bad? 3-5 months for a 9 piece set seems quite reasonable, maybe a bit too long (<100 seems ideal imo). It's no longer kDnF 60 cap for years, Outer is no longer endgame and a chron set isn't the endgame ultimate set anymore (that would be anton now). Korea has realized this, why is there new level 40+ dungeons that you can farm chron in? It's because a chron set is now a necessary step in gearing a character as there is bigger and more difficult endgame content. Liberation weapons are the same, previously they were the ultimate weapon, now they're necessary if you don't have an endgame epic, hence the change to obtaining one. If you want to gear a new character (kunoichi, shadow dancer, lancer etc) then making people sit in chron forever and ever to farm set pieces for more than 3 months is really discouraging to wanting to make and main a new class.
That's in korea of all places as well, in NA the retention of the average gamer isn't that long. Issues like running out of FP before starting (fixed?), weird leveling grinds (scenario mode), and nothing to do but RNG grind at cap (solution?) aren't issues where the players should just "suck it up" and "git gud", that won't work here, they'll just leave. While progression at cap shouldn't take a week max, it shouldn't be unreasonably long. You can technically farm every single piece, but right now the rate at which you get fragments is too little for many to even consider that option. Some people just have incredibly awful RNG luck, my friend for example has a rate of one set piece every 30-40 days of running OV, his luck is literally awful. How many of you remember the 3/3/3 OV event over the summer? Now did more RNG chances translate directly to increased results? Some people got lucky, some people got literally nothing.
Going back to Liberation and that friend, he doesn't have a liberation. However, he does have a requiem weapon. I really like the requiem weapon situation. You can get lucky and get a liberation first try. But, in the meantime you at least have SOMETHING. After 100 days and stones you can grab a requiem weapon. I really do think that this is the solution, and what neople was attempting to do with this Mt Kulun Chron feature. Maybe they just knew we needed chrons but not set pieces? I'm not sure. But I do think that this guaranteed progression over a reasonable amount of time (what this is is up for debate) is the solution to this. Sure it's not instant progression, but you can just run a couple dungeons, then raise an alt if you have time or go do other things in life (such as play another game, which is how most gamers here tend to be) without needing to quit DFO.
In summary, not adding sets to this Mt Kulun unique feature makes it useless and doesn't help the issue of hitting cap and further RNG-less progression in DFO
my thought in response to is dfo dying (Early nov 2015)
In short
- What is dying? Not enough retention and no new players for DFO to live. Vital content and fixes (PvP, no server merge) too little too late.
- We waited months already, why not wait longer or have a beta then break to fix before launch? Isn't the game not dying again worth the bit of extra waiting?
- The FP limit of the first day fell as such that new players didn't get to try new skills or get to the actual "fun" before they ran out of FP. I believe this resulted in a large but unknown amount of new player losses.
- DFO is too grindy and wasn't well suited for retaining NA players beyond hitting cap after they got over the hurdles of running out of FP the first day and a couple grindy levels.
- casuals are necessary
Naturally there's more, like
- advertisting, not relying on players exclusively over Facebook
- actual communication beyond facebook and screaming in twitch chat, an official forum with neople on it?
- actually using the CMs and CAs (not hiring miridia...), listening to them (tradable avatars), not misinforming them
- not milking the players in ways they don't want, while taking advantage of the money wanting to be thrown at them from avatars and item of month items in item shop? idk so counter logical
- doing research (do we need 2 servers?), even asking players & appointing reliable community members to inform you about NA and DFO's playerbase
- not screwing up simple things and just saying "we tried" as an excuse
- decent update schedule, ie a client update by now instead of trying to stretch out a couple things over a few months (I'm still pissed about the Fgunner 2nd delay)
- etc but I don't have time to go into them. blah blah just my opinion etc etc
Now was the perfect time to release bind cubes, one last cash grab while things are looking alright. Release a client update, slowly release "new "content that was just waiting in client. Maybe release another client update in spring. More rares and cash grabs while they can, then close the game. Earliest I can see is the 3rd year anniversary of Nexon DFO's funeral (bonus points if they some how blame us for DFO's failure when it was all on them). Maybe after the summer. I'll be impressed tbh if they can drag DFO out to this point next year.
Yes they tried, though it's not effort but success that matters
In the meantime, may as well enjoy it while it lasts? Like DFO will die for us individually eventually won't it? By that I mean there will be a time where we move on in life won't there? Or where DFO becomes less of a big deal. Most of us have had people who were playing in DFO nexon or even DFOG move on in their lives, won't we as well? Why is the concept of DFO's mortality so bad? Why not enjoy it while you can, even if it is forcibly cut shorter than you would hope?
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[QUOTE="Not a Real car, post: 218731, member: 2160"]I DONT THINK THE GAME IS DYING, I THINK MOST OF THE PEOPLE POSTING DOOM AND GLOOM ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE FROM SOURCE WHO WERE SAYING THE SAME SHIT LAST TIME.[/QUOTE]
Well they were right weren't they? Same thing is happening again, same problems, same result.
[QUOTE="Soltis, post: 218707, member: 2422"]Nexon/Neople fail to understand momentum it would seem; once again its too little too late.
if they were smart they would've had ranked pvp available before or at official launch, and colosseum/fully furnished pvp at launch or soon after.If they were smart they either would've merged east and west before official launch, or wouldn't have bothered with a separate server to begin with.If they were smart they wouldn't have made untradeable and statless avatars the only avatar option available in the cash shop.If they were smart it would've been "8 weeks of restoring classic avatars" on top of/instead of those waves of useless and annoying events.If they were smart they would've kept putting a few meaningful avatar sets in mileage packages as incentive for people to play to perma them.If they were smart Miridia would've never been a CA.If they were smart they wouldn't have excluded max level characters from a number of events.
..But they aren't, so yeah the game is gonna flop. Whales spamming hellmode couldn't save nxdfo from a mspaint Christmas and they won't save dfog either in 12 months.[/QUOTE]
<3 Agree x1 Like x1 Winner x1 Idol x1why can't I rate thingsdid yall seriously get so upset about ratings they changed things again? someone calling you dumb on an internet forum really means a lot to yallWhile im at it, agree x1 to hish's post. Esp the "deal with it" and us sucking it up. i liked that
anyways now for my thoughts
this game is dying/going to die.I do think there is a decent chance DFO would be alright if neople overhauled the way they do things, adapted to NA/western market then advertised. But the chances of that happening are effectively 0% so yeah game dead.Before all the negativity, may as well give neople credit. I really enjoyed some of the events, some of them really were quite good in my eyes. Yall tried too, you might not have done the right things but you tried at least that's something.
Before we talk about dying, what is DFO dying? I'm going to assume the playerbase falling low enough (or rate of population changing being negative enough) that Neople decides to close the game due to running out of players. This is what nexon cited as their reason right? Well that's simple, just don't let population fall low enough or the rate at which population changing become too negative (wording is wrong but i think yall can see what i mean?). But how can we do that? We need to retain a certain amount, or having a good stream of new players, preferably both. First is out since people hit cap, or cap out (get whatever goal they had) then leave, new game comes out, people move on in life, etc. Second, we don't have. There was a large window, the initial release window which were the prime times to get new players and attract attention from gaming communities and whatever. Our advertising was non-existant iirc and we sucked at retaining players. We also can't get new players right now either. I don't actually know, but I don't think we're doing well at getting new players. And even if we did, they'd all just leave anyways. Especially if they were on Delezie. "But that's gone now", Too late as Soltis already stated. Same thing with ranked PvP.What is dying? Not enough retention and no new players for DFO to live. Vital content and fixes (PvP, no server merge) too little too late.
There were several opportunities that Neople had and issues they needed to deal with.First off there was certain things not being ready when March 2015 rolled around. Why not delay the game until it was ready? You had people wait months already, surely a couple more wouldn't hurt? Especially in exchange for major features and problems addressed. Some issues might not have been obvious to them or only would be found in live, so why not hold a beta then take it down and work on those issues? Isn't that the whole point of a beta? Maybe decide to merge servers at launch? Or better yet not bite more than you can chew, nx dfo closed with one server and never needed a 2nd, why would you? Especially with no advertising? Could've made deals between beta and launch for advertising too. PvP should've been functional at launch, but it wasn't. Reminds me of the Fair Arena launch. All we need is some error to show up and neople to close ranked pvp for 3 weeks. Everyone found something to do for 9 months+, why not make them wait longer or have an actual separate beta (2nd alpha) and launch so the game doesn't flop? "Advanced" Solution: delay launch or beta, break and fix, then launch Basic solution: resolve issues immediately (ie SERVER MERGE THEN)We waited months already, why not wait longer or have a beta then break to fix before launch? Isn't the game not dying again worth the bit of extra waiting?
FP. I don't think the entire FP system was the issue, more so the specific problem caused by the FP limit. Not doing anything fun in your first day. When you create a character, what level do you reach in one standard FP bar? 17? 18? maybe 19? For new players this would be lower due to them not being as efficient with FP. You slog through abnova, then advance maybe. Then you run out of FP. I don't think the limit is the problem, but where the limit leaves you. You don't get to experience anything fun, you're just getting started then you run out of play time. Yes there's tomorrow, but remember new players, first impressions. This may seem small, but remember how important first impressions are. This can be the factor that decides whether someone uninstalls and never comes back. How many people played one day in march, ran out FP just before they got to the fun, then quit?I don't think that removing FP for blitz would work, as so many core parts of the game are designed around that, and would need to be redesigned and balanced around blitz. Neople had simple things they didn't manage to do, how would they even do this? At the very least they could've thrown every new character a 100FP pot. Wouldn't break the game giving them 2 (1.6?) day's of FP on the first day. But it could've kept so many people who got to experience their advanced class with SOME skills. Advanced solution: rework FP system Basic solution: give 100FP pot.The FP limit of the first day fell as such that new players didn't get to try new skills or get to the actual "fun" before they ran out of FP. I believe this resulted in a large but unknown amount of new player losses.
The last major thing i want to talk about is retention and the overall NA gaming culture. (which apparently i know anything about?) I'm not a big gamer, i didn't follow that one "gaming journalism scandal" where some girl slept with some nerd for A+ reviews of her game, i don't have millions of games on steam or follow the latest big game releases. But even I realize this: The gaming culture of your average gamer is different here compared to north america. What I mean by this is that here there's more options, with games constantly coming out over here. In Korea i think people go harder and stay longer in some games, which is what DFO was designed off of. How can you keep someone in your game and coming back to it, even if they go try new games? How does riot do it for League? (rito plz gib secret) PvP ladder is something. Ours looks good, not that i know anything about PvP, but too late.What about PvE? I think aside from the first day problem above, and certain level ranges, the 1-85 experience is good. But what about at 85? How can you keep players in DFO aside from making an alt? Well there's despair, and growing your character. This is where Hell, ancients and outer come in. I like hell, the revamp should be good. Easily accessible epics is a bit too broken imo. Getting rid of the RNG is good there for the hardcore players who want to invest in hell and grind those fragments. I like something in particular about ancients.
The idea of Outer I like. The customizable playstyle of modifying skills (even if not all are that viable), especially with c3, i like. However, I think the grind is too much. Yes OV was THE endgame, and a set was the pinnacle of endgame. It no longer is anymore imo. korea reworked OV, and I think it not being the true endgame is one of the reasons why, idk for sure. The grind is fine in korea, but this isn't korea, this is NA. OV is too RNG dependent. Yes you can get fragments, but this korean-tier frag grind or RNG grind is too much for the culture of NA, the average na player. The average korean might be able to do this, they should. DnF has people who study this so korean casuals still play? What I'm attempting to say is that your average na player is a less hardcore grinder compared to your average korean grinder, which is what i think this OV system in DnF was partially based off of. Going back to ancients, what i liked was the feeling of progress. Instead of being at RNG's whim, you get progress, progress more substantial than fragments. I think what neople could do at the least would be more OV events short term (not jsut runs, but actual pieces given away), and long term have grindable quests of decent grinding that give you min 6 piece of each set or something (or all 9 if you grind enough idk). The quests wouldn't be too short, but would at least give that sense of progress. (maybe ascending in # of runs of each dungeon? 2 -> 4 -> 8 -> 16 -> 32 -> 64..?) Liberation is still partially RNG in our version, but the Req is just days. Speaking of which, the cost is a bit steep for DFO's new and weak economy but yeah requiem grind is really good in my eyes, bit long but it's something. You can could the requiem stones without getting lost at needing 1374 (random number) for your ov set or whatever. OV is a bit too "korean" for NA's gamers.
It should be stated that keeping players is difficult imo, beyond just going old MS way of endless grinding to level up till cap. OV could just use some tweaks. Of course this would've been better before everyone left to go play other games after "beating" this one with everything beyond being too grindy and RNG based.In short, DFO is too grindy and wasn't well suited for retaining NA players beyond hitting cap after they got over the hurdles of running out of FP the first day and a couple grindy levels.
Yes this probably is coming off as "too hard for casuals", but don't we need casuals. Yes they might be baddies/scrubs/idiots/retards/12yo's, but we need them don't we? Sure we might not want to party with them in OV, but we don't have to. Yet we need them, they fill our population charts, spend cera (from mommy's credit card or not), even post on fb (not important but it is our only method of communication aside from twitch chat). Without casuals, DFO would definitely die. We need to keep them here instead of just hopping to another game and not coming back.[/spoiler]
In short
- What is dying? Not enough retention and no new players for DFO to live. Vital content and fixes (PvP, no server merge) too little too late.
- We waited months already, why not wait longer or have a beta then break to fix before launch? Isn't the game not dying again worth the bit of extra waiting?
- The FP limit of the first day fell as such that new players didn't get to try new skills or get to the actual "fun" before they ran out of FP. I believe this resulted in a large but unknown amount of new player losses.
- DFO is too grindy and wasn't well suited for retaining NA players beyond hitting cap after they got over the hurdles of running out of FP the first day and a couple grindy levels.
- casuals are necessary
Naturally there's more, like
- advertisting, not relying on players exclusively over Facebook
- actual communication beyond facebook and screaming in twitch chat, an official forum with neople on it?
- actually using the CMs and CAs (not hiring miridia...), listening to them (tradable avatars), not misinforming them
- not milking the players in ways they don't want, while taking advantage of the money wanting to be thrown at them from avatars and item of month items in item shop? idk so counter logical
- doing research (do we need 2 servers?), even asking players & appointing reliable community members to inform you about NA and DFO's playerbase
- not screwing up simple things and just saying "we tried" as an excuse
- decent update schedule, ie a client update by now instead of trying to stretch out a couple things over a few months (I'm still pissed about the Fgunner 2nd delay)
- etc but I don't have time to go into them. blah blah just my opinion etc etc
Now was the perfect time to release bind cubes, one last cash grab while things are looking alright. Release a client update, slowly release "new "content that was just waiting in client. Maybe release another client update in spring. More rares and cash grabs while they can, then close the game. Earliest I can see is the 3rd year anniversary of Nexon DFO's funeral (bonus points if they some how blame us for DFO's failure when it was all on them). Maybe after the summer. I'll be impressed tbh if they can drag DFO out to this point next year.
Yes they tried, though it's not effort but success that matters
In the meantime, may as well enjoy it while it lasts? Like DFO will die for us individually eventually won't it? By that I mean there will be a time where we move on in life won't there? Or where DFO becomes less of a big deal. Most of us have had people who were playing in DFO nexon or even DFOG move on in their lives, won't we as well? Why is the concept of DFO's mortality so bad? Why not enjoy it while you can, even if it is forcibly cut shorter than you would hope?
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