#awesomefan

[lemonhemlock]

One thing I noticed when I was rewatching HOTD was how inconsiderate Rhaenyra can be, and how it almost always leads back to Daemon's grooming of her. Like with the whole situationship between her and Criston and how she was unintentionally inconsiderate with proposing to Criston that he'd be her paramour. It bothered me with how callous she was about it, and how easy it was for her to just forget about him and essentially treat their relationship like it was nothing.

Same thing with Harwin. She rants to Daemon about how, without him, her life has been a droll tragedy. Now granted she did say that she did love Harwin, but to a casual viewer, it would seem like she only liked him because he made her feel desired. Look how quickly she mourned for him and moved and married Daemon. It just seems like Harwin didn't mean much to her, and that he was just a substitute for the man she really wanted. The same man whose advice she should not be taking or listening to. Daemon is not someone she should be advised by because he is in no position to be giving her solid advice seeing as he's been disinherited (even though Viserys never regarded him as his heir), exiled a million times, and has no real place in this world. He's a King without a country. That's why he gets bored so quickly when he's in a domesticated setting.

hi there, forgive me for taking this long to answer, hectic couple of months :))

One thing I noticed when I was rewatching HOTD was how inconsiderate Rhaenyra can be, and how it almost always leads back to Daemon's grooming of her. Like with the whole situationship between her and Criston and how she was unintentionally inconsiderate with proposing to Criston that he'd be her paramour. It bothered me with how callous she was about it, and how easy it was for her to just forget about him and essentially treat their relationship like it was nothing.

you know, i generally found rhaenyra a rude person and was kind of surprised that no one picked up on this. she is so rude at storm's end, too.

Same thing with Harwin. She rants to Daemon about how, without him, her life has been a droll tragedy. Now granted she did say that she did love Harwin, but to a casual viewer, it would seem like she only liked him because he made her feel desired. Look how quickly she mourned for him and moved and married Daemon. It just seems like Harwin didn't mean much to her, and that he was just a substitute for the man she really wanted.

yeah, honestly, not a good look for her. she is not really shown to mourn harwin in any significant way. jace is more upset than she is. not to excessively dunk on her here, but i feel like most of the blame for this comes from the time-jumps. the rhaewin relationship positively looks like a footnote; they really could have used more interaction.

The same man whose advice she should not be taking or listening to. Daemon is not someone she should be advised by because he is in no position to be giving her solid advice seeing as he's been disinherited (even though Viserys never regarded him as his heir), exiled a million times, and has no real place in this world. He's a King without a country. That's why he gets bored so quickly when he's in a domesticated setting.

preach! daemon can wield a sword and fly a dragon, but he really comes across as politically-incompetent. he spends his entire life creating chaos around him and alienating potential allies.

awesomefan asked: People think he wouldn't have gotten bored with Rhaenyra like he did with Laena when it's like no he would have gotten bored with her too. When Rhaenyra was young it was all about the chase, the forbidden fruit, pissing Viserys off, and temptation. Now that he has her and she was the one doing the chasing (cause of his grooming) the thrill is gone. Especially seeing as they did absolutely nothing for 6 years but sit their asses on Dragonstone making up for lost time. It would have eventually bored him and he would've needed something to do. This is why he seems so "alive" or "out of character" when the war starts because he finally has something he can do. Something that he's good at. It's why at the end of the story he not only cheats on Rhaenyra with Nettles, but he also abandons her, Aegon, Baela, and Rhaena all so he could go out in a blaze of glory against Aemond. He refused to return to Rhaenyra (who's lost her mind at this point) and be her solider/consort because that's not who he is. He wants to fight and go out like a warrior. He wants to bring glory back to the House of the Dragon, and he can't do that by going back to Rhaenyra. It's also why he cheats on her with Nettles because she's special. She is a girl of non-Valyrian descent that was able to claim a wild dragon just by using her brain and the ways of the old shepherds of Valyria. She intrigues him and challenges his ideology of Valyrian supremacy and Targaryen exceptionalism. Overall, Daemyra fangirls needed to stop romanticizing their relationship thinking that their story has a happy ending and that he died for his Queen. Everything that Daemon has done has been for himself, and as we've seen, Rhaenyra is not the exception to his selfish, violent, abusive actions.

i agree with most of this, but to be perfectly honest, there's something about daemon's riverlands storyline that bugs me. we criticize aemond for doing fuck-all to advance the war effort, but daemon also doesn't really do much in that regard either? what great military accomplishments does he have to show for other than.... landing his dragon in harrenhal at the beginning of the dance?

again, to my mind, this feels like the author didn't really know what to do with these characters past this point without complicating the overall war too much, so just decided that the solution is to have them circling each other each other in the riverlands for god-knows-how-long. the consequence of this is that they both seem to acquire chicken brains, but i wouldn't assign them too much blame for what looks like authorial fault and a good old fashioned plot hole

also unrelated but wanted to let you know that i love your profile picture! who is it?

[alicentsgf]

One thing that kills me is how Daemyra fans try, and I mean TRY, to justify that god awful sex scene. It's like I get y'all want y'all ship to be thriving in every aspect of a relationship, but that scene ain't it. First of all: it's extremely disrespectful to Laena and the Velaryons. Second of all: Rhaenyra has a lot of nerve to be talking shit about Laenor lacking subtly, when if anything she lacks subtly. She's not subtle about her relationship with Cole (with how quickly Joffrey figured it out), she's not subtle with almost kissing Daemon at her wedding, she's not subtle with siring 3 obvious bastards, and she's not subtle when she screws Daemon at his wife's funeral. So yeah, please stop talking out of your ass Rhaenyra. You give yourself too much credit. Lastly: the chemistry was just not there. I understand that they were trying to make it passionate and show that these two star crossed lovers are finally being reunited after being separated for so long, but it wasn't giving what it was supposed to. It was dry. It didn't look like it felt good nor did it look like something that was worth waiting 10 years for, but now she's got him and we all saw how well their relationship turned out 😬

okay idk if this is a controversial opinion... but I don't think we were meant to think of that scene as passionate at all... I think the reason it seemed dry was because it was the culmination of Needing each other but not foremost desiring each other. like they do but that's not what them coming together that night was about.

rhaenyra is far more preoccupied with what daemon can offer her. she just looks vindicated, not like she's physically enjoying it. and Daemon did care about laena, as much as he gives the impression otherwise with how he acts that day, so theres definitely some fucked up shit going on in his head. plus rhaenyra has always in part been a symbol that represents something he wants, rather than just wanting Her for her.

so yeah it being a bit dry was not a mistake imo they're not exactly meant to be #couplegoals and that's not how the show chose to portray them as much as some might wish otherwise.

[lemonhemlock]

I also love how Emma called out the pseudo cult of personality that people have for toxic problematic male characters like Daemon, “Within cinema, there is a long history of creating love interests out of problematic – particularly male – characters,” says D’Arcy. “What’s interesting in House of the Dragon is that it utilises that same trope. You know, like audiences have responded to Matt playing Daemon as this ‘very sexy, masculine love interest’, but simultaneously, I hope that the show is continually acknowledging the problematic nature of it all.” It reminded me of how Daemyra fangirls were losing their minds over the choking scene and having the AUDACITY to claim that it was "out of character" and "bad writing". How when the whole entirety of the show has shown us how violent, abusive, and toxic Daemon is even towards his own family?! Yes, he loves them and will ride and die for them, but he will also hurt them both physically and emotionally as we've seen multiple times throughout the show. Multiple things can be true at the same time! He'll kill anybody who insults and hurts his family, but he'll also insult and hurt his family because it benefits him in some way, shape, or form. It also reminds me of how sexist the fanbase is in that they'll crucify Alicent who hasn't done half of the deplorable shit that Daemon (an abusive murdering groomer) has done, but like Emma said, they'll create a "malewife simping" love interest out of Daemon because he's hot. And then they'll the excuse of Daemon keeps it "real" which is why they like him more than Alicent who is "self-righteous" and "phony". WHAT?! First of all, even if Daemon keeps it "real" and is always 💯 it still doesn't take the fact that he's worse than Alicent. Second of all, how exactly does Daemon keep it real? He's an overgrown manchild that grooms little girls in order to overcompensate for the fact that he will never be good enough for his brother. But sure Alicent is the worse.

Emma was so right to point that out. Fangirling over bad boy characters like Daemon is normal, but when you're stubbornly misreading all the red light signs pointing towards him being a villain .... it delves into other issues. Lack of media literacy, willful blindness, (internalized) misogyny? in the sense that people are willing to accept and forgive problematic behaviours in dashing-dark-prince characters, but categorically do not extend the same kind of grace to female characters like Alicent. It's sad because no one is forbidding fans to like Daemon, but they don't have to champion him at the expense of other characters either.

He's an overgrown manchild that grooms little girls in order to overcompensate for the fact that he will never be good enough for his brother.

Bulls-eye. Hit him straight with the headshot.

Thank you for your poignant comments. I'm delighted to share this analysis with anyone happening upon my blog!

[lemonhemlock]

Rhaenyra kills me with her lack of subtly and descreetion at Laena's funeral when she's following Daemon around like a lost puppy dog. It's like your reputation/inheritance was already put on the line because of his creepy ass! Why would you risk it again, especially, at your in laws home when they could so easily turn against you and join your enemies?! Stupid!

Now that I think about it, it just saddens me to see how desperate she is for Daemon and how much she puts herself at risk for him. When he doesn't even return half of the favor. It's like one of the writers said she's in love with him more than he is with her and you can tell. Rhaenyra needs Daemon more than he needs her and he knows it. Which is why it's so easy for him to constantly abandon her whenever she needs him most. Damn did his grooming do a number on her.

I'm not sure if this was the writers' intention, but Daemon seemed to be way more into Rhaenyra when she was young. IDK if it's the writing or the actors' chemistry, but post-time-jump Daemyra is just boring, sex scene included.

The thing about Daemon is that in the books he is linked to both Harwin's and Laenor's deaths, so he does actually never stop pursuing her until he fulfills his goal. Whereas in the show, it's Rhaenyra who pursues him and even basically proposes to him. I wonder if they changed that because they wanted to show Rhaenyra as more in charge and independent, entering a relationship with Daemon because of her free will, not because she felt compelled in some way.

Also show!Daemon constantly leaving Rhaenyra to fend for herself in vulnerable situations is so jarring. Something daemyras are not intent to analyse or even acknowledge.

[lemonhemlock]

I love how Emma D'Arcy keeps calling out the toxicity and grooming aspect of Daemon and Rhaenyra's relationship, “I think he is a deeply problematic character,” says D’Arcy. “Getting to see Rhaenyra being groomed as a child by her uncle confirms it, and refuses to allow an audience to wholly ignore the problematic nature of their relationship.” As much as Daemyra shippers claim that they know that the relationship isn't some pure wholesome Disney romance, they sure as hell act like it is whenever people point it out. Emma has said it multiple times, as well as the writers, that Daemon groomed Rhaenyra and it's a fact! This is an indisputable fact that can not and should not be ignored because it plays a HUGE factor as to why their relationship is the way it is, as well as why Rhaenyra is the way she is. She has severe abandonment issues as well as validation issues, and Daemon has done nothing but made her feel like she needs him and that he's the only person she can rely on. He's also done nothing but encourage her negative traits which has hurt her more than it has helped her. And no matter what people say I firmly believe that he's always been manipulating her so he can get within some proximity to the throne. He may not want to be King necessarily, but he does want his blood on the throne. Either through his own son or his daughter who'll be Queen consort. Daemon was truly the worst thing that happened to Rhaenyra.

Hello & forgive me for taking ages to reply to this well thought-out message! Unfortunately, I've been a little besieged these past couple of days.

I have to say that I've been very pleasantly surprised with how much nuance Emma speaks of Rhaenyra. They approach her from a perspective I would have never chosen on my own. Completely agree with their take on Daemyra - and I say this as a fan! I really enjoy their pairing on screen, but I won't fool myself into thinking it's a fluffy love story.

He's also done nothing but encourage her negative traits which has hurt her more than it has helped her.

I think this comes through SO much in the episode where he leaves her at the brothel by herself, but it flew past the audience's heads. His whole shtick about dragons taking what they want and indulging in their own pleasure really did a number on her. She goes straight to Criston & ropes him into having sex with her, disregarding his position and the threat on his life if he were to break his vows and continues to be very flippant about this towards him later on. She will later indulge her impulses in a more dangerous manner by intentionally bringing three bastard children into the world.

And no matter what people say I firmly believe that he's always been manipulating her so he can get within some proximity to the throne. He may not want to be King necessarily, but he does want his blood on the throne. Either through his own son or his daughter who'll be Queen consort. Daemon was truly the worst thing that happened to Rhaenyra.

I also think that Daemon likes the idea of kinghood. Not the responsibilities, not the boring petitions or squabblings between vassals or the actual administration work. He likes the complete freedom he thinks it would give him as well. Daemon is someone who loves acting with impunity and never facing any consequences, no matter what he does. He would make a terrible King or King Consort, a slave to his own impulses, plagued by boredom and I suspect he would basically present Rhaenyra with faits accomplis and expect her to deal with it & accept them without any real fallout.

Thank you for dropping by!

[lemonhemlock]

"I wonder if they changed that because they wanted to show Rhaenyra as more in charge and independent, entering a relationship with Daemon because of her free will, not because she felt compelled in some way." You see that's where I start to get into it with Daemyra stans who claim that Rhaenyra is a sexually, liberated, independent woman when she isn't. It's like you said she got with Daemon because she was made to feel like she needed to be with him. Which makes her story all the more tragic. She's not a liberated feminist who has an enviable sex life. She's a young woman whose been taken advantage of since she was a child by her creepy uncle, who made sure that he ruined her ability to have a functioning healthy relationship with other men. It's because of him that he almost causes her to be disinherited and sullies her reputation, which in turn, she's forced to marry her gay cousin. As a result, neither of those 2 knuckleheads can at least try to conceive a legitimate heir. This leads to her having a not-so-secret affair with Harwin, and it's because of her daddy's protection that is the only reason why Harwin hasn't been executed and she hasn't been disinherited. But sure she's an independent woman.

Let's backtrack to her and Cristion's little rendevous. If it weren't for Daemon's grooming she wouldn't have been so bold and inconsiderate to even sleep with Criston. Nor even think that it was a good idea to ask Criston to be her side piece. Nothing about Rhaenyra's character screams independent woman because her entire world revolves around toiling in service to men in order to be "free" to do what she wants. Her stans need to stop acting like she's a Dornish woman because she isn't. Nothing that Rhaenyra does or thinks truly even comes from her own mindset. It's either something that Daemon has taught/instilled into her or it's something that her father has pressed upon her to want. In other words, her and Alicent are in the same boat.

Yeah, I don't think Rhaenyra is a sexually liberated feminist by getting together with Daemon either.

I suppose you could argue some of that in regards to her relationship with Harwin, that she pursues love and sexual gratification for her own ends, within the confines of her station and sham marriage, and that's not a conversation without merit. Of course it is unfair that a woman (or anyone else) has to marry for political reasons and that she can't engage in sexual exploration on her own terms, according to her own needs and her timeline. But, in this context, the consequences brought about by her selfish actions shouldn't be glossed over either: she brings three innocent children into the world that now have to suffer from her indiscretions, as they are actively put in danger by their mother's lies. She is so deep in the hole she dug for herself that she has to alienate another noble house's entire patrimony in order to cover up for herself.

This is certainly something she took from Daemon - his whole speech about how marriage is a political arrangement and that dragons take what they want, exemplified by him trying to take her maidenhead in a brothel. Certainly, I agree with you that she never would have pulled that shit with Criston if she weren't feeling frustrated and horny and under his influence, taking in the "teaching" that giving into your impulses can only be a good thing.

But, at the same time, I would argue that, while Daemon definitely fucked with Rhaenyra's psyche, she didn't really do herself any favours either. Daemon is shown to be a wanderer, he never stays that much in one place. In ep. 1 it is implied he has been gone for some time now. Then he leaves again. Realistically, he is not spending all that much time with Rhaenyra either. Surely he has great influence over her, but she is not completely without agency either. After her wedding, there is a 10-year time jump and she does not seem to do any self-reflection during this time. When they finally reunite, Daemon is not really pursuing her in any way, so what happens next is completely put in motion by her.

So this is not to say that she's a liberated independent thinker deadset on exercising her sexual freedom, but more like... she recognizes she is in deep shit and doesn't know how to get out of it. Note how everyone keeps pointedly staring at her bastard sons in Driftmark; Rhaenyra recognizes this and sends them to bed so that they'd be out of sight. She sees Daemon and thinks "oh, he is scary enough and seems to know what he's doing, so, if HE would be my husband, I wouldn't have to worry about the consequences of my own actions". Basically her modus operandi of appealing to the men in her life to help her out.

Anyway, I find it interesting, because, on the other hand, I also receive asks like this (from this week):

Anonymous asked: It's funny how the show made everything revolve around Rhaenyra even Daemon's character is just him being a simp for Rhaenyra and not the dangerous ambitious man he was in the book.

This one is quite contradictory, actually. In this view, Daemon is the one constantly trailing after Rhaenyra and her being the one calling the shots. Perhaps this is a reaction from having Daemon appear declawed, so to speak, after the time jump. Whereas before the time jump, he would do all kinds of chaotic stuff when he appeared on screen. After 10 years, he seems rather mellowed out and I think this is one of the reasons the general public started to think of him as a malewife and were quite shocked at the choking scene. They must have thought that the years took some of Daemon's edge off.

and this one

Anonymous asked: I completely agree what you said about Daemyra. The chemistry between young Rhaenyra and Daemon was off the roof plus the whole forbidden aspect made them very shippeable to a lot of people (as opposed to forced incest like helaegon). Then it just fell off after the timeskip and I don’t think its the writers’ fault entirely (although they REALLY could have tried to write a better sex scene befitting the two) - the chemistry is just not there. The way Daemon looks at Rhaenyra now makes me think of a man who settled for a woman because of some promise or gain, not love. Like it literally feels like Daemon ticked off marrying Rhaenyra from his checklist, like it’s a duty, to finally put an end to the pinning and unresolved sexual tension but in such an unsatisfactory, dull way that it just fell flat. Daemyra has potential to be a badass duo, encouraging each other’s awfulness, a true force to be reckoned with. But alas no, because Rhaenyra is a lost puppy in a big castle, an eternal victim to everything whilst Daemon stands around, mentally pocking a stick into her saying DO SOMETHING! They became pathetic. At least if they were pathetic in love or something, but no, it’s just pathetic. Young Daemyra worked because young Rhaenyra had a spunk in her, spirit for adventure and risk taking that present Rhaenyra lacks. So why is Daemon attracted to her now?

There's a reason young Daemyra took off so much and people became enamoured with them. For as awful as the grooming implications were, they had the potential to be this fascinating Cathy-Healthcliff pairing that, while destructive and unhealthy, had that arresting trainwreck quality, a petri dish of heightened human emotions, an exploration of our darkest impulses and indulgences.

But adult Daemyra kind of fell flat at that. Now they were just a regular couple only with occasional choking thrown in (lol). I don't fault the actors for being confused. Some of it is writing choices, some of it is, yes, the lack of chemistry. 🤷

[lemonhemlock]

One thing that kills me is how Daemyra fans try, and I mean TRY, to justify that god awful sex scene. It's like I get y'all want y'all ship to be thriving in every aspect of a relationship, but that scene ain't it. First of all: it's extremely disrespectful to Laena and the Velaryons. Second of all: Rhaenyra has a lot of nerve to be talking shit about Laenor lacking subtly, when if anything she lacks subtly. She's not subtle about her relationship with Cole (with how quickly Joffrey figured it out), she's not subtle with almost kissing Daemon at her wedding, she's not subtle with siring 3 obvious bastards, and she's not subtle when she screws Daemon at his wife's funeral. So yeah, please stop talking out of your ass Rhaenyra. You give yourself too much credit. Lastly: the chemistry was just not there. I understand that they were trying to make it passionate and show that these two star crossed lovers are finally being reunited after being separated for so long, but it wasn't giving what it was supposed to. It was dry. It didn't look like it felt good nor did it look like something that was worth waiting 10 years for, but now she's got him and we all saw how well their relationship turned out 😬

Completely agree with you about the disrespect towards Laena and the Velaryons; the fact that is not acknowledged further is nuts. The fact that they blamed Aemond for being so disrespectful towards Laena's memory that he deserved to lose an eye; yet, Daemyra were literally fucking on that beach and getting married the next day is.... some serious cognitive dissonance.

Also agree about the sex scene. Yes, I appreciate it wasn't exploitative with the nudity aspect and they really empathized how much they both wanted it. But it was very boring, indeed. Tastefully shot, maybe, but I also thought it lacked chemistry - and it's actually a very common complaint, from what I gather. I suppose you can't win on all fronts. It wasn't memorable for me, but it is good to have a sex scene like this in the Game of Thrones cinematic universe, I guess. There will be other opportunities in S2.

But, at the same time, you can't give a couple this tender a sex scene and then be surprised that your audience completely got the wrong impression about them and turned Daemon into a malewife. I mean. Yes. They are going to think the choking scene is OOC. Yes, Daemyra was previously shown to be a pretty fucked-up dynamic, all things considered, but the truth is that the audience aren't really trained to do follow-up on all those clues because, by resorting to the visual storytelling shorthand of a loving sex scene (the likes of which they've never seen in GoT!!!), you are subliminally communicating to them "This is OK. These people love each other. They'll work it out. You should root for them." Like. I get people's confusion and denial.

Of course, you could also say this was an attempt at subversion. The narrative shows you they're fucked up, then the framing seems to validate them and treats them as this great love story and you get lulled into a false sense of security, next they're shown as a powercouple, then, precisely at the moment you thought yourself safe, boom! chocking scene.

[guiseeyewear]

"We have a big universe here. It's filled with new ideas. All you have to do is grab them." #stanlee #wolverine #awesomefan #guise #guisearchives #la #eyewear (at The Guise Archives)