#bb!asc

[bonefall]

Big question cause I’m so mad about how they were used: any ideas on changing Berryheart and Curlfeather from this book?

I have ONE controversial opinion and you must allow me this;

Curlfeather not apologizing to Frostdawn kinda rocks as an idea.

Obviously it reads as insulting because of how they gave Berryheart a Tom the Wifebeater ass Redemption Death in this book, and the general way that they've not approached her with the nuance she deserves is frustrating. I agree.

But hold my hand and walk with me. Imagine Curlfeather, mauled and bloody before the daughter she died saving. Frostpaw's gone through so much fixing the damage she caused, furious at the state her mother's in, the mess she made of RiverClan, all the suffering everyone's gone through... and Curlfeather says,

"I don't regret anything."

"Really? REALLY? I go through all of that, I come ALL this way, and you won't even give me a rotten little sorry?"

She doesn't give her mother a chance to respond, lashing her tail towards the grimmace that hangs off the side of her shredded cheek, "You're not sorry for how you lead to yourself looking like THAT?"

Frostpaw shoves her scarred throat foward, "You're not sorry for THIS?"

She claws dig into the sodden black earth of the Dark Forest, "You're not sorry you're HERE?"

Curlfeather is quiet, her remaining eye stoic like a stone. Frostpaw begs furiously, "NOTHING?"

"I will vow on our blood that I will not lie to you anymore," the demon's tone is soft and honest, "and I hope that means more than the insincere apology I could offer you otherwise."

Just when it feels like Frostpaw has so much anger that her body can't handle it, pain stuffs itself inside her in equal measure. Her stomach is sick with love, throat choked with affection. It takes her a minute to form the word,

"Why?"

"When my father, Reedwhisker, was taken by the Kin, I saw how they broke him. His uncle, Stonefur, did not buckle under Tigerstar. My grandmother Mistyfoot quietly rescued the Clan from his accomplice, Leopardstar, while Mistystar willingly worked alongside a vicious impostor."

Now that Frostpaw is the one who's waiting quietly, Curlfeather's voice flutters hopefully, "I was willing to do anything to restore my Clan to greatness," the specter pads foward, touching her nose to her daughter's trembling forehead, "except sacrifice you."

She didn't expect to feel the harsh sting of her daughter's paw smacking her across the nose. She reels back.

"You don't get it! It's not about YOU! It's about everyone you hurt! Dont try to pretend it was all worth it, you didn't make anything great, you just broke it!"

"I had to break it so it could be set back stronger. I gave you the chance for the power, and now you are making it better than it was."

"That was in spite of you! You told me to trust no cat and I had to unlearn that!"

"I saved you when I could have escaped with my life."

"From a situation you caused in the first place!"

"It was a warrior's death!"

There is a silence that settles over them. Curlfeather is snarling in offense. Frostpaw looks, again, at her mother's fatal wounds, the defensive stance. She's reminded of how the cats of other cultures don't always see scars as rewards for a fight survived-- just reminders of pain you've gone through.

"...it was a warrior's death," she agrees, gently, watching tattered hackles smoothen out, "...and now you're dead, while I'm still alive."

The emotion in Curlfeather's face is solemn, but otherwise incomprehensible to her daughter. The expression on Frostpaw's is equally unreadable to her mother. This is the only thing they will ever understand about each other-- that there is an irreconcilable difference between them, steeper than the divide between sky and earth.

The last words the demon speaks to her daughter are, "I love you."

It's only years later that Frostdawn can say, "I love you too."

[bonefall]

if u put owlnose’s deputy position certificate in the shredder (rightfully) can u at least give him like.. ‘real’ closure. a nice little bow on his arc. him being happy and ok with himself

Oh yeah entirely, no question. My ideal arc for BB!Owlnose is that, as Icestar, Frostdawn, and her little DND Party come together to start to consider where RiverClan goes from here, Owlnose does something... steady in the background. Like a sign that things are going to be okay.

There's always going to be some people who blame him for the direction RiverClan went in. They project fantasies of how he could have "saved" the Clan they knew if he stepped up, or blame him in some way for how it fell apart... but his wisdom is that it was exactly that sort of power worship that broke the old RiverClan.

"This is silly," he purrs, paw brushing the brand new, tanned leather surface of his owlface drum, "but I think a Clan's like a song."

He gives a little pause to let Frostdawn chuckle. She deserves it, after everything.

Owlnose continues while batting the drum in soft tempo to his words, "one-two, three-four, ul-arra. It's only a beat until it is complete, then it's a rhythm."

Frostdawn's smile is lopsided, loving but tired. "Uncle, only you could play an owlface like a lullaby and make philosophy as heavy as stones."

"You know it!" He hummed, changing his tune to a proper lullaby. An old one he'd been playing for her since Jayclaw left for StarClan. Her tongue got sharper every day and every minute she sounded more like her mother, but this wasn't the time for that.

He was just a beat for her rhythm right now, and he wouldn't have it any other way.

[bonefall]

Did she escape captivity, or did they release her? Would she have been deemed unreleasable by the research team

It was a field procedure, and she was immediately released afterwards to Whistlepaw who was hanging back and watching. The biggest dilemma on their end would be if they're going to record it for the scientific record or not.

The team is there to observe-- they learned long ago that the Clan cats fear humans, and that's good for their research. They don't want to influence the culture any more than the Destruction of the White Hart Woods did, they are here simply to document.

The tools they keep in their truck are for taking samples, biopsies, recording weight, tranquilizing. The Clans are wild animals, to them.

So... what do you do, when a wild animal is dragging itself towards you, making a distress call? Not just a distress call-- the same exact meow that you have, on video, from individuals when they're asking each other for help.

It's language. Your test subjects are making contact with you.

But then dreadful reality sets back in. If you help her, you're interfering. This will alter your results from here on out. You know there's some kind of power struggle going on in the western group, and there is a chance that this is going to have ripple effects on that.

...that's not going to stop you, though. The vets on the team are already moving her onto a sterile tarp. She asked for help directly, what are you even doing this for if you let her die?

You're reminded of a lot of things. The cheetah who left her cubs with a camera crew. The seal who jumped up onto a research vessel to escape an orca. The elephant who approached a vet to treat a bullet wound.

Man, citing those incidents would be an ACE opener for your thesis paper. But it would be admitting that you possibly overstepped a boundary. Then again, it would totally get the sanctuary more interest, and maybe you'd get more funding...

You'll think about it later. Nancy is telling you to find the tincture of iodine. Dang it must be SERIOUS.

[bonefall]

Do you have anything concrete for Jayclaw in BB? Curious about him since we never really learn how he dies. We don't really know much about him, besides the fact he's reasonable, fast and had a physical fight with his brother over a small mess.

Funny enough I have had a crystal clear image in my head of who Jayclaw is for years, and have not had to change it at all. He's a total background character but for some reason I just know what this dude's about.

Jayclaw was a dancer, a FANTASTIC one. He played Jingleshells, which are a full-body instrument made of netting and percussive beads. His performances were playful and dramatic, and he reveled in pulling off impressive movements while still keeping rythmn with his chimes.

His friend group was essentially a little band. His brother Owlnose played drums, his friend Podlight sang, and that connection was how he was introduced to Curlfeather. It was impossible to resist his charms once he started courting her-- he was fun-loving, romantic, and absolutely captivating.

Curlfeather loved him so much that sometimes it was hard to look at him. "I can't be seeing you right now, you're going to make me grin like a fool."

"Like it would be so terrible for you to brighten my day, gorgeous?"

Losing him was sudden, unexpected, and heartbreaking. I don't know what it was specifically, but I do know it was a freak accident and quite violent. He left camp one day in the prime of his life, and came back dead.

I don't think his passing planted any seeds in Curl's mind that weren't already there, but the combined stress of grief and the loss of her emotional "rock" was the catalyst.

In fact, at first, believing Frostpaw's bad dream had been a vision was probably something Curlfeather actually believed, or otherwise was something she came up with for non-nefarious reasons. Like maybe Frostpaw believing her vision "killed her mi," and Curlfeather meant to soothe her by explaining that visions simply predict the future and that his death wasn't something she caused.

In any case, after his death, Curlfeather was driven towards acting on her ambition. That's Jayclaw! Trophy husband who died ❤️

[bonefall]

will gorse and lizard stay in thunderclan in BB?

(Magic 8Ball Voice) It seems likely

This is with caveats though-- I'm committed to two major changes;

Gorseclaw was previously cut from the LakexLizard litter, because the Dapple/Hare/Soft survivor drama works a lot better with only three very relevant siblings

Lizardtail and Hollowflight were merged into Hallowflight, a Dark Forest trainee who swam across the lake to warn the Clans that the DF was planning to attack kittens

Hallowflight is going to be the one who goes down in a fight with Splashstar, Harelight is staying alive in BB. Whether his dad sacrificed himself for him, or he's just watched another family member get bled dry by a tyrant, Harelight's done with RiverClan. In BB!TBC, he went into the Dark Forest to fight Ashfur as a Light in the Mist. So this is the loss of a very significant warrior.

Gorseclaw... for one, if they come back, they are going to get a Conflict Rename. There's a much more significant historical figure named Gorseclaw (adopted brother of Ripplestar), so this Gorseclaw needs a new one. There's also enough Gorse suffixes, imo.

For two, I don't want to put them back into HallowxLake's litter. I just don't need him there when Harelight being the last survivor of his family works so well, both for bloodline diversity and for the drama.

SO I'm thinking of aging Gorseclaw down to kitten or apprentice during BB!ASC, and having them be the child of Harelight. Part of the choice of moving Clans being, "I will not have my only child become a warrior for the Clan that killed its whole family."

If so, then I might change Gorseclaw to Coarseclaw, a reference to their fur texture and an indirect naming for their dead auncles. The litter all had matching hair names before Harelight got an Honor Title-- Dappletuft, Softpelt, Harefur.

There will also probably be further population shuffles, both for RiverClan and elsewhere. ThunderClan does NOT need Wafflepaw. They barely even use Stormcloud and they JUST got Sunbeam too. Finish what's on your plate before you get second helpings of fresh outsider cats

At the end of BB!ASC, I want an exodus from RiverClan. Some from other Clans will join, but many will leave. There needs to be lasting consequences from this arc, right now it honestly feels like the writing team has set it up so there won't be, and that's frustrating.

[bonefall]

Did Curlpaw's mentor encourage her associations with strength? Was it a good mentor-apprentice bond?

I want to connect much of Curlfeather's dark sense of honor to the absolute carnage she's witnessed over the course of her life, beginning with the Battle of the True Eclipse. Since I'm making her slightly older to be an apprentice who took part in the battles firsthand, it follows that her first major loss should be during that fight.

The RiverClan Family Tree I made was actually the first big one I did, and one thing I kinda regret is that I removed Dapplenose. I'm gonna bring her back in my next draft, and have her be Curlfeather's first mentor.

Dapplenose was kind and sweet. Friendly towards outsiders and a natural storyteller, she would have started Curlpaw's apprenticeship gently. It was important to her that she not only taught her how to fight, but also to appreciate the history of RiverClan and its culture.

Curlpaw felt unprepared for the maelstrom of fury that the Dark Forest warriors brought to the Lake in the devastating second wave. It was CHAOS. Being able to make pottery didn't help her survive, only the battle training did. When the screeching stopped and the demons retreated to regroup, Dapplenose was just one of the corpses.

It's the practical knowledge that Dapplenose taught which Curlfeather retained; How to structure a speech, insight to the overall functions of Clan operations, and that gentleness will get you killed.

She wasn't nearly old enough to become a warrior by that point, so Mistystar had to assign her a second mentor. Curlpaw seems like the sort of person who would have told her grandmother directly that she wanted someone more strict. Mistystar would have obliged.

There's a couple of good candidates, but I'm leaning towards Duckfur. Xey're one of the most practical, intelligent warriors in the Clan, and someone who quickly swung over to Mistystar's side when Leopardstar ""was killed by rogues."" Duckfur's Machiavellian "might makes right" philosophy, combined with xeir regret about TigerClan feels like something that would have contributed to Curlfeather's ruthless honor.

Plus, I've been meaning to give xem some more relevancy, I just think xey're neat.

To answer you directly; Curlfeather considers her bond with both mentors to have been good ones. She would have stayed close to Duckfur until the day xey died. I might even bring Duckpaw BOTC back and have them be Curlfeather's first apprentice.

[bonefall]

i really like how in your curlfeather conversation, she talks about Mistyfoot/Mistystar like they're two separate entities and not the same cat. Is this because of her dedication to be a "warrior" in the way the tags are described, or is it for other reasons?

It's her commitment to her sense of honor in the way described in the tags, and a reflection of the way she feels RiverClan (and her bloodline) had declined.

Mistyfoot had been strong enough to defy the code, when it was necessary. Leopardstar was a frothing mess in the Battle of the True Eclipse, so the great reveal that she had been assassinated to protect the Clan wasn't a shock to her-- it made sense.

It was clear to Curlpaw (age shuffle, she is slightly older in BB) that killing her had been a practical, rational choice.

The Code, to her, is a guideline and a tool. Honor doesn't come from the law; the law comes from honor. Good leaders can, and should, bend it when the future of the Clan is at stake. MistyFOOT was willing to make those tough calls when MistySTAR would work with the impostor, so her respect lays with a version of her grandmother she never met.

Curlfeather isn't quite a Traditionalist, but she isn't quite a Thistle Law supporter either. I understand her as a sort of Neo-Traditionalist, someone who greatly respects the law and the "old ways" of cultivating strength within the Clan, but believes that it these traditions must sometimes be broken in order to protect them. Functionally, she's standing with the Hard Traditionalists.

(Like Mudclaw many years ago, ultimately your personal beliefs don't mean much if you're willing to empower fascists.)

[bonefall]

It would make much more sense if Float was in the same age range as Frost and her siblings, Float (apprentice age now) could be taken hostage by Splashtail because shes friends with frost. Also brings characterization to at least one Frost sibling

That's a good point. It would make a LOT more sense than Splashtail suddenly holding his siblings hostage just because he's evil.

Especially if Floatpaw was the first (and possibly only) of her family to try and make a statement against her brother's leadership. Have it play into Splashstar's paranoia spiral, make him feel like his own family's betraying him.

Liking it. I'll probably shuffle Trout, Rapid, and Float to be older-- have their apprenticeships overlap with the Curlkits'.