#bb!ivypool

[bonefall]

So, since BB!Ivypool will use her newfound deputy status to force a confrontation with Dovewing- how would she react if Dovewing snaps and told her to her face that she never, EVER wanted to speak with her again after everything? Like, would it click for her that even if she deeply regrets the way she treated her sister, no matter how sorry she is its up to Dovewing if she's ever forgiven? Or does she blame Heartstar thinking she turned her sister against her?

Let's pop open the hood of BB!Ivypool and her fucked up little life, and every person she's been leading up to the end of BB!TBC.

All of this starts with her father, Lionblaze, raising her with this axiom; That you are given strength to serve your Clan.

While he used Dovepaw and her powers in service of ThunderClan (often fighting with her mentor, Birchfall), Lionblaze encouraged his daughter to involve herself in Dark Forest training. Ivypaw felt like this was how she "earned" affection from her Ba, with hard work.

Just as Lionblaze believed that his physical abuse at the paw of Ashfur made him stronger, Ivypool also came to believe that growing up thrown to the wolves made her stronger too.

So when Dovewing first started to... not even REJECT the idea, just display any resentment towards it at all, it's like a personal slight.

No one ever fucking listens to Dovewing. No one cares what she wants. Just what she can do for them.

And Ivypool was super part of that. Her mentor is Brightheart, who often overexerts herself as an expression of PTSD. She saw Hawkfrost "die" turning against Tigerstar for the greater good. She sees Bumblestripe "working so hard" to "help Dovewing adjust" while she's losing her hearing.

In her eyes, Dovewing was being selfish. Look at all these people who give EVERYTHING to their Clans-- how dare you try and make it about yourself?

Tigerheart, in and out of their life constantly, gets blamed because it's a lot easier to pin it all on the Evil Codebreaking Foreigner than admit that maybe Dovewing has a point. Ah HA! THERE is the villain responsible for making my sister act weird! I knew it all along!

(Plus Tigerheart and Ivypool got pitted against each other a LOT in DF training because Ivy was Hawkfrost's apprentice and Tigerheart was Tigerstar's, for some incredibly fucked up projection reasons you'd expect of Tunnelbunstar. Ivypool will nonsensically blame Tigerheart like she's a Dinkleberg.)

(Also tbf tigerheart would 100% let her believe it, 1. Because it's funny, and 2. Because it takes the heat off Dovewing)

And Ivypool was VICIOUS about this. AVoS is still getting shuffled but if anything vindictive she did towards Dove in that arc gets removed, I will replace it with something just as bad. She would actively sabotauge ShadowClan if it meant keeping Tigerheart away from Dovewing.

She can't handle the thought of losing Dovewing. At some point, it became about control. It's her insecurity towards herself, towards her family, towards all of her losses, and even towards service of her very Clan.

And then Dovewing booked it. Couldn't handle this shit and panicked and BAILED.

And THEN it's about getting Dovewing BACK. She's even dragged Fernsong into this and tried to leverage his friendship with Dovewing to this end. She'll even support Bumblestripe when he tries to argue for an invalidation of Queen’s Rights on technicality.

Ivypool: "Those kits are Bumblestripe's! He has a claim! They even have HIS MANE"

Heartstar: "Hmm. No, it is very clearly MY mane."

Ivypool: "You can't-- wait what?"

Heartstar: "Lightkit even has my beautiful smile <3 so fuck off, maybe?"

For a long time that's where Ivypool was. She was the awful, vindictive sister-in-law constantly trying to weasel in to make Dovewing feel bad. When she had kittens of her own, she was still in this mindset.

It didn't end well. In BB!TBC, Bristlefrost needed her. Ivypool stepped in to prevent her from being the impostor's pawn, but refused to do anything when she was caught and imprisoned for being in a HalfClan relationship. She needed to be punished as a codebreaker.

Brought to the next Gathering, the impostor reiterated the need to enforce the code, and desperate times calling for desperate measures. He called for SkyClan to punish their own warrior. They refused to make this a public spectacle.

So he sliced open her throat, right on the branch beside him.

Ivypool didn't imagine she would be KILLED. Suddenly her whole world shattered. The moon stayed clear and bright. Her daughter was dead before she hit the ground and she had HERSELF to blame.

Dovewing and Ivypool served in the rebellion together, and eventually Ivy went into the Dark Forest as a Light in the Mist. She watched Bristlefrost die, AGAIN, knocking Ashfur out of the sky and burning them both up in orbit, and how brave Shadowsight had been in pinning him in place.

Ivypool NEEDS Dovewing to know now that she's different. She's learned a lot. She understands so, so much more now...

But DOES she? She still hates Heartstar's guts. She still feels abandoned. How different ARE you now, Ivypool, with your renewed interest in finding some petty reason to skirt around Dovewing's direct wishes? When you're still here getting into blowout arguments with Heartstar?

So to answer the question, if Dovewing told her directly, "I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR DESPERATION. IM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR FEELINGS. PISS OFF"

Ivypool would not be able to accept that.

It just wouldn't stick, ever. It really is desperation. Dovewing NEEDS to know that Ivypool loves her and misses her, and that she understands, but also that Heartstar is delusional, and this is still kind of Dovewing's fault. And Ivypool will do anything to make her know this.

But I also DO want to say; this is a very unique weakness. It is Dovewing Derangement Syndrome. Ivypool is a competent deputy, and she is a devoted and respected warrior of ThunderClan. It will be no surprise she's being picked for deputy, especially considering (god willing) Squirrelstar is seeking war with ShadowClan.

She is a good friend, mate, and leader. But BB!Ivypool is so, so fucked in the head about Dovewing. This family can fit so much trauma in it

[bonefall]

Hi Bones, allegedly according to the WCRPForums spoiler thread, there will be a few stories in the new version of the Ultimate Guide, like how Skystar loses his last life. Ignoring that, apparently Dovewing and Ivypool might reconcile. Since we know BB!Dovewing will NOT make amends with Ivypool because she's sick of the way she treats her, how will you handle it? I can see it being Dovewing giving her one last chance before cutting her off- or being the moment shes cut off. What do you think?

i NEED to know how skystar fucking dies I have never needed to know anything more. I hope he fell down a flight of stairs. I hope stairs materialized in the middle of the woods and he fell down them. I hope it was an upwards escalator, and he's STILL tumbling down it to this day. I hope he's making funny Gmod noises on every step.

ANYWAY!

I have absolutely 0 intention of abiding by canon on Dovewing and Ivypool's relationship honestly. I simply know the girlies better than the writers do. Not everyone needs to reconcile. Sometimes a bridge is burnt and you CAN make a legitimate change, or have had a sad and tragic reason why you acted the way you did, and they will STILL not choose to re-open that relationship with you.

You are never entitled to another individual's company. People aren't rewards for personal growth.

Dovewing's tired of letting herself be an object. She's not Bumblestripe's project, she's not Ivypool's prize, and she's not Lionblaze's tool. She is the gift-bearer of ShadowClan's beavers, the mate of the leader, a massive and ferocious warrior. And she's not interested in giving up any of her own happiness for THEIR sakes, not anymore.

That's rough on Ivypool. But Dove's not responsible for her happiness-- and that's the angle I will be approaching it from for BB.

[bonefall]

How does Fallenleaf feel about how Ivypool and Dovewing were treated? And what do the latter think about her (Dovewing especially, since i imagine she was compared to her a lot when it came to the prophecy. I can definetely see an exasperated Jayfeather going 'Well Hollyleaf took the prophecy seriously before- when we thought she was part of it). Come to think of it, I can see Dovewing resenting Fallenleaf not only for the comparisons made about her, but also the fact that Jayfeather and Lionblaze let their sister know but she can't tell Ivypool even as they grow more distant. (Granted, Hollyleaf was told BEFORE they realized she wasn't part of the prophecy, but who knows if Dovewing is privy to that. >:3c)

Their relationship is, uh...

Skip back 100 years ago, Holly Leaves the Tyrant ruining ancient society.

She killed Jay Wing with her own two paws, drove Lion Roar out through grief, and then tried to stop Dove Wing from taking the survivors to the mountain

Dove Wing beat her ass. Handed it to her on a silver platter. Folly Leaves could break her brothers, but NOT Dove Wing.

Fallen Leaves for 1,000 seasons in a tunnel: "thank god i never have to see that random person who mcfuckin wrecked me ever again i think i would die of embarassment and/or fear"

Lionblaze, modern day: "we missed you so much... we were terrified when you acted like that, I thought I killed you when we... well... it's time to put that behind us. Are you prepared to meet your nieces? ...i raised them. If you hurt them I'll never forgive you."

Dovewing: (IS THAT RANDOM GUY WHO KICKED HER ASS)

And then Fallen learns Cinderheart went through with the plan to raise them with Lionblaze so Poppyfrost could have access

But that Poppyfrost did not TAKE that access.

So basically Cinderheart went through all this for nothing

AND on top of all the other new information (and she can't entirely remember where she "left off." Was that one's name ALWAYS Honeysnake??)

One of those things is the prophecy. That was only revealed shortly before the Fire Scene in BB, and then the Fire Reveal, Firestar dying, the Gathering Reveal, uhh... what was the gray guy she killed's name again? Asterfall??

Her freakout before getting time travelled is the fuzziest part of her life, she can barely remember half of it and the order of events is totally scrambles egged. Did the fire happen before or after her grandpaw died??

But meanwhile Dovewing's been raised her whole life with Fallenleaf as like, this big missing piece in everyone's lives, she wanted to know the truth about her for her entire existence. Hollyleaf was an impossible standard to live up to, her mother's true love and her Firekin's prodigal child before her.

And now she can't. Because this is obviously not Hollyleaf. This is a big, confused shadow. That's FRUSTRATING. Dovewing is trying really hard at this point to not show how upset she is about this. You mean to say the sad ghost she could hear shuffling around in the tunnels her whole life was her long lost aunt all along?!

THIS is what she was being held up to, all her life? This is why she could never take a break? This is the fuss? Some Fucking Guy?!

Meanwhile Ivypool is trying to mimic the feelings her parents feel. She takes a lot from Lionblaze, desperate to signal to them that she's in the family and cares about the same things they do. I don't think she really feels much of anything towards Fallenleaf at first-- but if they all care together then it feels like they've "come together"

And Dovewing's lack of enthusiasm, or even desperately veiled frustration, is like betrayal. CARE with me, we're supposed to FEEL GOOD about this AS A FAMILY. And if you can't then WELL WELL WELL look who's WINNING AT CARING ABOUT THIS, something very NORMAL and POSSIBLE to do! Surely, I am the better daughter, actually.

And while all that's playing out, Fallenleaf is still like, absolutely haunted by Dovewing being that random person who kicked her ass. She deserved it but like... she killed her brother in an ancient epoch and it turns out his sister in another lifetime is now his daughter in this one. What the fuck. And she looks at her negatively EXTRA what the fuck

I want them all to have a few good scenes together, but I don't think their relationship to Fallenleaf is... strong.

She ends up marrying their mom, Cinderheart. I think for Dovewing, she DOES actually think that's nice for them.

But Ivypool feels threatened. She feels she's going to get replaced.

This is while Lionblaze also ends up moving on with Toadstep, mind you. Both parents are finding new mates and having new kits

Ivypool takes it especially poorly, Dovewing has complicated feelings.

Isn't it just peachy that Cinderheart and Lionblaze COULD have been good parents all along? They just weren't, for you?

Hollylark is their half-sib through CinderxHolly, and Snaptooth and Flywhisker are adopted half-sibs through ToadxLion

When Fallenleaf learns the full story, she feels sorry for how the two were treated. She would controversially support Dovewing's leave; but she isn't the type to do huge confrontations anymore. Since her time as a Tyrant, she has a sort of godly, detatched air about her.

So there wouldn't be any chewings-out of her brothers. She doesn't have that sort of confidence in her own judgement anymore. Trying to control others and tell them how they should sort out their problems caused the Kitty Bronze Age Collapse lmao

[bonefall]

personally i would enjoy an ivypool, if you haven’t done her yet. she is one of my favorites, i always picture her as a kind of lanky skinny pointy cat

[ID: BB!Ivypool, she is a gray-and-white tabby with cornflower blue eyes, a noteworthy swirled tail, and a 'beret' over one ear. A family tree displays how she is now the great-great granddaughter of Redtail, and a comparison is drawn between his facial features and hers.]

My takes'a little different from popular fandom interpretation! She is an echo of my Redtail design. They have a very similar personality and she's like a cool-color version of him. She even inherited his tail, also seen in Squirrelflight and Rosetail (Red and Spotty's new mom).

It's haunting for Tigerstar, to see Hawkfrost bring in a cat who reminds him so much of his first victim. He's harder on her than other trainees because of it, which is one of the reasons why Hawk's faith in his father starts... wavering.

Ivypool is dour, serious, and ambitious. She has her eyes on deputyship, but has a bad habit of keeping grudges a lot like her dad Lionblaze.

Though born to an accident between Jay and Poppy, she was raised by, and considers Cinderheart and Lionblaze her parents. She has... complicated feelings towards Fallenleaf and Toadstep, and had trouble bonding with her new half-siblings through Cinderheart.

We're not even getting into the tension she has with Dovewing because we'd be here all day

During ThunderClan's Tempest, three kittypets end up joining the Clan including Fiddles, who becomes Fernsong. He came at JUST the right time to accidentally spark a MASSIVE breakup between Blossomfall and Ivypool. Blossom never really got over it.

Fernsong was the primary parent of their kittens, Flipclaw, Thriftear, and Bristlefrost, with Ivypool happily continuing to do the jobs that give her the most fulfillment. Ivy is now one of the POVs in TBC, taking it from Bristlefrost who is executed publicly by the impostor.

She will eventually be covered in scars, the tons of white space is going to help with that. I won't put the scars on until I have stories for each though.

Hawkfrost is her Dark Forest mentor; Brightheart is her Waking World mentor.

She becomes incredibly close to both of these cats.

Hawkfrost is lost in the Great Battle, becoming a ghost among ghosts in the Dark Forest.

Thrift is named after a beautiful flower Ivy saw on a cliffside during a salt patrol, in Clanmew this name is "Paharl," an ancient Lakemew word shared by Fallenleaf.

Her favorite food is blackberry pemmican and she likes chewy textures.

Stats: Strong fighter, decent at most things.

[bonefall]

Does Ivypool's name have any extra meaning in BB? Her suffix has always bothered me, it's so ill-fitting

Nope. Bramblestar is just a terrible namer.

He even used the same -pool suffix that's being used in Leafpool's Honor Title (slof)....... the disgraced, demoted cleric who was revealed to be their biograndma a few books ago... If she was going to have a water suffix, then "rosha," "sloshing water," would have been more fitting. But he picked "pool."

Ivy's father Lionblaze is convinced it was Bramblestar trying to offend him. in reality, that's not something Brambs WOULDN'T do, but he was just trying to reference Ivy's weird looking tail.