#critique groups

[novlr]

Writer's Critique Groups and How to Form Them | The Novlr Reading Room

Critique groups are a great way to get feedback on your writing. Here are some tips on how to find one or form your own.

[wendytokunaga]

Critique Groups: The Best of Times, The Worst of Times

I’m certain that virtually every published novelist has benefited from getting feedback from a critique group. And I’m sure every published novelist has had the experience of pulling out her hair and running down the street screaming after at least one critique group meeting. That’s the nature of the beast when it comes to critique groups: you probably can’t live with them, but you also can’t live without them.

No matter how experienced of a writer you are, it’s rough to hear what’s wrong with your novel, no matter how constructive the feedback. But the best way I’ve found to take constructive criticism is to think of it as a gift, something that will help me look at the big picture of my novel and will inspire me. The ideal is when this results in an epiphany of how to fix things so that the novel will be the best it can be. And a good critique group can help you do this.

However, finding a good critique group can be tricky. Every writer probably has her wish list for a dream critique group. Here’s mine:

~ An in-person group that meets at a time and place convenient for all members.

~ Members who are equal to me in writing skill or even better so I can learn from them.

~ All members working on novels (though memoirs can work too).

~ Every member willing to read 20-25 pages at a time (and even more in some cases).

~ Verbal feedback given during the meeting, and also written feedback to take home.

~ Emphasis on the “big picture” as opposed to line editing.

~ The bulk of the meeting spent on critiquing as opposed to socializing or group therapy.

~ Members who are committed to the group and also willing to discuss general writing and craft issues.

[the960writers]

Hi! Big fan of your blog!

I have a question that I guess isn't so much about writing as it is about motivation. I really like my own writing, and I'm confident that I'm a pretty good writer. I had professors try to convince me to get my MFA in creative writing, and I've won small writing competitions before.

But I've been posting my writing, reblogging myself like crazy, posting on easy-to-read journals and blogs, self-promoting myself in a couple of discords, and shamelessly sending links to friends. But still it looks like no one is reading anything I write. Even my friends will tell me they don't have the energy to read and will "try to remember" to check out my stuff later (spoiler: they never do).

I try not to put a lot of importance in how many people are reading my stuff. It just hurts that not even my friends are reading my writing. I get a couple of comments in tags of my tumblr posts, but that's about it. It's especially sad because I have over 6,000 followers on my writing tumblr and .0001% are reading my original stuff. It kinda de-motivates me from posting to my blog, and I start to feel silly sharing links in servers when no one responds.

I guess I don't know what kind of advice I'm looking for exactly. But how do you keep going when you really love writing but can't get even the smallest audience?

Hello friend!

Posting on blogs and tumblr for feedback is a sure recipe for disappointment. I know exactly how you feel, it's one of the reasons why I don't post stuff I'm writing. It's never enough, no matter how much engagement you get, and sites like tumblr or twitter are notorious for short, quick reading. It's a huge effort to hold people's attention for longer stories.

If you're looking for more exchange and feedback, you should probably join a community that is specifically for that, like Scribiophile or Critique Circle. Here is a reedsy post about groups like that. As far as I remember, these groups have a system where you have to give feedback to the entries by other writers, before you get feedback on your own. That way they make sure that there is an actual exchange of feedback and commentary. This is much better than asking readers for their honest feedback because that's really not their job.

I know some people are relatively successful with publishing on patreon, but you have to be consistent and you have to work on getting followers that are willing to pay for getting to read your stories. That kind of pressure is my personal nightmare, but if you can do this -- go for it.

Your final question: "how do you keep going when you really love writing but can't get even the smallest audience?" Oh boy, what a question.

Something I have learned through years of fanfic writing and now try to apply to original fiction writing: you can't write for the applause from an unknown audience. This is what writing for yourself means. The fundamental reason for your writing has to lie in yourself.

I know it's so hard. I know it's frustrating. But you have to write for yourself, not for an audience. There will be no applause.

[letswritesomenovels]

Sorry it’s been a while! A lot of things have been happening in my personal and professional lives (I’m getting married next month!) 

As an apology, here are some Reader Feedback worksheets! These can be used when giving workshop of critique partner feedback, or even when trying to “read like a writer.” 

These can be used to give to give straight to a writer who’s asked you for feedback, to give to non-writer friends when asking them for feedback, or to get basic ideas down before you write up a more thorough critique letter. 

Reader Feedback

Observations to Keep Track of While Reading

Notable Dialog 

Dialog that stands out to you while you are reading--good or bad

Notable Descriptions

Descriptions that stand out to you while you are reading--good or bad

Confusing Moments & Major Continuity Errors

Moments that give you pause while you’re reading, either because something about the plot or a character doesn’t make sense, or something in the writing directly contradicts an earlier event or description.

Exciting/Favorite Moments

Moments that make you eager to see what happens next, a particularly exciting or well-executed development in a character or plot, an extremely satisfying moment. Something that would make you revolt if the writer took it out in the next draft. 

Other Observations

Anything else you want to take note of for the author. This may include things like chapter lengths or a consistent grammar error, or brilliant chapter titles. 

Feedback Once Finished Reading

Characters

Which character felt the most fully realized?

Which characters did you have trouble understanding/believing?

Are there any characters that felt extraneous or under-utilized?

Did the protagonist’s motivation and developement make sense?

Plot

Did the story have a well-defined beginning, middle, and end? 

Were there any points where the story moved too slow/fast?

Did anything not happen that you were expecting?

Was the ending a satisfying conclusion of the story's events?

Setting & World

Which setting could you picture best in your head?

Was there any setting/movement of characters that confused you?

Was there anything imaginative or exciting about the worldbuilding?

Was there anything confusing about the worldbuilding?

Reader Experience

Was the story what you expected it to be after the first chapter?

How did this book make you feel? 

What emotions did you have reading it?

What was your main takeaway from the story?

For more thorough advice on critiquing and giving writing feedback, make sure to check out my Writing Workshops: An Introduction post!

[mackincaid]

Hi! I know you've been working a lot on your original fiction and submitting them to magazines and such. I was wondering, how do you find people to help you edit/give you feedback? Previously I've only worked on original stuff in college workshops where people were there for that purpose. Now that I'm out of college and trying to write original stuff that hopefully can be published, I'm unsure of where/how to find people to do that for me. Thanks!

I totally have good news for you: that same sort of format you’re used to from college totally exists in the wider world, and it’s what I think most writers would recommend for you. The answer is writing groups. They can be online or offline, whatever works for you, but they’re basically organized groups of people sharing their work for group critique/feedback. You should also be able to find one that’s full of people writing in the same genre as you so you know you’ll have an audience that’s actually interested in what you write.

My state actually has a writer’s league, which includes multiple chapters that are their own little organized critique and socializing groups. I’m a member of the writer’s league but never actually explored the benefits of membership, so right now I’m actually looking through their chapters trying to figure out which ones are most likely to be friendly to queer lit. (I found one with a bisexual chapter president so I’m starting there for sure.) I haven’t done a writing group like this since I was in college, either, so I’m hoping it works out for me. (As a fic writer I relied on beta readers from my fandom, but asking them to read my original fiction as well kind of feels like a huge imposition, so I’ve only done it a few times.)

Obviously I don’t have the experience with critique groups to give you a ton of good advice, but The Write Life has a couple good posts on finding the right writing group and where to look. I see them advertised pretty frequently at my local libraries, and you could also search in your area for groups specifically oriented toward your genre (like a local scifi writers club, or something like that). There are also online options that those blog posts might help you find.

Not gonna lie, right now my big technique is not running my stuff by anybody, sending it out a few times, getting a few rejections, and then pulling it and shoving it in my “this is deeply flawed, let’s rewrite it later” stack. The stack is getting VERY LARGE. (I’m not taking the rejections as a sign that the work is crap, I’m just thinking more deeply on the work and going “aw man this pacing is terrible / this plot hole is enormous / this ending is incredibly anti-climactic” and deciding to rewrite.) I’m getting pretty good at critical self-analysis but man, an outside perspective is going to be a lot more helpful. ;D I’ll let you know how it goes when I get going with one of those critique groups!

[caffeinewitchcraft]

Get your critique group back

We’ve all been there. We take a piece of writing out of the safety and comfort of our laptops and we drag it kicking and screaming to a critique group in the hopes that an outside perspective will take it to the next level. But then, the worst thing that can happen happens.

“I guess I don’t really believe it.”

“This is too contrived.”

“Your work doesn’t have anything to say.”

There’s a troll in the dungeons. Or, more generously, a member of the group who just plain doesn’t like your writing. And they’d rather spend the allotted time telling you all about it rather than help you.

In every critique group I’ve been in, there has been one person that claims to “not get” or “not believe” my writing. They spend more times pointing out missing commas, awkward tense shifts, and choppy dialogue than actually giving me ideas on how to go about streamlining and/or clarifying my work.

I’m a bit of a hot head, so I used to snap right back at them. “Maybe,” I’d say, smiling sweetly, “you’re just not the intended audience.” Which, in some cases, is fair. Sometimes your critics aren’t your intended audience and they have difficulty putting themselves into that role. But that won’t get you the feedback that you need, even if it shuts them down.

So here’s a list of things I’ve found helpful to say in order to get the type of feedback you need to make your work great.

“Can you elaborate on what you have an issue with? What should I add to address it?”

“What would you suggest to fix the issue?”

“Considering my intended audience, do you think that’s really important to include?”

“What would [x suggestion] accomplish that isn’t already touched on?”

“I’ve tried [changing pace/changing POV/inserting an internal monologue/etc] before. Do you think that could help here?”

If the person continues to shut you down, not offer specifics or suggestions, or just plain gets mean you can try:

“I’m sorry, this isn’t really helping me. Can another member of the group explain?”

“I understand that you have an issue with my work, but I confess I’m still not clear on what that issue is.”

"If you don’t have any suggestions, let’s move on to an issue you do have suggestions for.”

It’s not your job to explain your work to a critique group. It’s their job to tell you what’s not clear or what they think the work is saying.

These are a few of my strategies, but I’ve seen a fair few writers wrestle advice out of recalcitrant critics with some killer moves not listed here. I’d love to hear some advice from other writers!

[agwitow]

Critique Etiquette

So this is a bit of a question and a bit of a rant... I've been part of an online critique group for a bit more than a year now and I've developed a good relationship with the people in the group (as you want for a productive critique group). As people's lives have gotten busy they've had to withdraw. That's fine. People need to take care of themselves first and foremost. And with spots open we've brought in new people. As you do. For the most part the new additions are great. If they're unsure about something that references an earlier chapter/book they ask. Nobody minds and we're glad to have them. Then there's the one who joined and offered a critique on the sixth chapter of a sequel. And proceeded to wonder why the two female main characters were in the story (they happen to be on a pirate ship at the moment...but women were pirates so that's not even a valid excuse you *mutter mutter mutter*). Further, it was "torturous" and had too much description (but accurately captured the reality of life on a pirate ship)... (No one else complained about extraneous detail in the story, but they're familiar with me/my style and may be more forgiving) So please. When you are new to a critique group and are joining partway through a story, read the previously submitted chapters, ask for a summary or synopsis of what's happened so far, and DON'T CRITIQUE THE SIXTH CHAPTER AS IF IT WERE THE FIRST! [/rant] What are other people's thoughts? Do you think I'm overreacting? Or do you think it was bad form on their part? Something in between? Something else entirely?