I'm a fan of not giving characters plot armor, including the MC and LI/RO! In my IF, the player character can die in 5 ways in Chapter 1. Personally, it's not even about the angst (I'm more for fluff), just that if it makes sense for the narrative, then go for it! I think for characters like the MC and the love interests, the sweet spot would be having routes where they die and routes where they don't, so it doesn't feel like a doomed narrative (unless that is the goal). I understand unavoidable deaths for other characters, but for the MC and love interests, I prefer "depending on the choices".
I misclicked my vote, though asdfghjkl.
Have you... thought of killing Jay and Yasmin?! 😭
I ask with my flabbers gasted as though I didn't just say not to give characters plot armor. You can do it with Croft though, I don't care /lighthearted
Very fair!
If I'm fully peeling back the curtain, part of my biggest hesitation for killing major characters (in this book) is that ideally I'd like this to be a trilogy, and the idea of branching worldstates for if ROs die for two more books melts my brain a little bit lmao.
Not saying it won't happen! But the branching scares me in a way branching doesn't usually lol.
MC is fair game though. I plan to implement checkpoints in the final product so MC death is fully on the table. And honestly potentially ROs too just gotta figure out how I'm going to tackle it. Never unavoidable deaths though; much more fun if they can be saved!! Like you're saying, that's a perfect middle ground here to be found.
Also LMAO you're so funny. I've thought about killing everyone, because I've been thinking about this a lot. Bad news is that Yas, plot-wise, is proooooobably in the most danger. For Reasons.
Good news is that idk if I care about that lmao she's my babygirl........ so we'll see <3
There should be a trope on TV Tropes about the heartfelt conversations characters have with the main character that sort of marks them as the next character to die. Like in Game of Thrones, Barristan Selmy has his last conversation with Daenerys about about her brother, Rhaegar, and how he would sing in the streets, and then give the money he earned away afterwards. It's may not seem like it at the time, but it's super clearly a Death Convo. Selmy reminds you just how much you like him by making jokes and being meaningful, and then he dies a few minutes afterwards. It happens all the time, but you sort of don't really recognize the Death Convos until after the character dies, then you go back and watch it again and you're like, "Oh, yeah, they were marking him for death with that one. Damn."
I am an angst enjoyer so im biased as fuck. I do love deaths, but when they're like, not super abundant and not just a skillcheck fail (tho that might be my dislike for stat management speaking) because they just. Dont feel as powerful anymore to me? If I (or other characters) can die by tripping on a rock 27 times before I get to a Big Lore Important Boss Fight dying during it just will feel the same as tripping on a rock to me. Just doesn't hit the same.
What I also like a lot is death caused by series of choices, like actively ignoring helping options in a fight leading to an ally getting killed. Or mc getting injured over multiple choices and not having enough strength for the final push without sacrificing themself.
Also after-MC-death POVs (or like, just descriptions of reactions without the POV) are super exciting when we get more into the endgame. The basic Game Over screen is fine and all, but the juice if MC death for me is how everyone reacts to it, especially characters that have become closest to MC. I want to see how everyone suffers through it!!!
Oh totally agreed, a good death needs to have a build up. It needs to be earned!!! Not that fast shocking deaths have no purpose in specific types of stories, but idk if this one is one of those.
For major characters, at least. No promises for everyone else ;)
I also think you're totally right about the series of choices. Like, if you're fighting a big bad monster and keep ignoring your allies in favor of doing more damage, it makes total sense that it would have logical consequences.
After death scenes and POVs are soooo brutal but also so interesting. Definitely something that I think I'd potentially like to play with--it's so so fascinating to me to see how the other characters would react to something like a MC death 👀👀👀
I'm one of the 'nuance' folks because I am so down for a good death, but I hate deaths that don't serve a purpose, you know? Deaths for shock value piss me off. Deaths just to make you sad without actual ~reason~ piss me off. Like, it's fiction, don't make me deal with unnecessary death.
I'm not saying I think YOU would do this; I just mean in general. I feel like a lot of authors in the 00s and 10s were into writing deaths for the reaction, not the plot, and I'm still salty over it 🙃
Haha you're super valid--I also am a big hater of shock value deaths. Nothing worse than killing off a character just because you feel like you need some kind of ~twist~ and death is all you can come up with!!
When I approach deaths in the story it'll be something I try to do deftly, for matters of plot or character or to give weight to certain aspects and choices. Because a death should matter! And it should be a big deal, without being solely to try and spice things up--save for, like. A slasher story. But obviously that's a whole different subgenre lol.
I'm fine with character death of all flavors as long as it's obvious what caused it. To me, it wouldn't seem fair if a character died because of a random (insignificant seeming) choice I made multiple chapters ago.
Oh yeah, absolutely!! There's nothing more frustrating than a death (or honestly any big consequences of a choice) that seemingly comes out of nowhere.
I definitely would never go the 'you chose coffee instead of tea and now Ravi dies forever' route with things--things like big character deaths will certainly be telegraphed as clearly as I can manage; likely with multiple chances to prevent them unless it's something that is scripted/will always happen!
About character deaths - I usually prefer IFs to have a "good" or at least bittersweet sirta ending, so that there is an option for MC and chosen RO to be together and happy, since I'm usually really invested, but other characters death I'm fine qith - adds spice to the story, you know? And optional ends with MC and ROs death are also good, I love to have an option to check them out later. Early endings are also good for me. And sacrifice endings are top shit - to have an ending where someone major like MC or chosen RO sacrifices themselves is really interesting, especially if epilogue is available, so I can see for example options for how who remains deals with it - survival guilt? Tentative steps toward accepting abd trying to find peace? Darker alternatives, where remaining person just can't go on? Someone bent on reversing this, going insane, or wanting to join their loved ones in death? Delicious. What I'm saying is that I'd like there to be an option for at least a semi good endings, something satisfying, with a pay off for the suffering. Non MC and ROs death can be emotionally heavy and hit hard as well (*cough* Willow....). If there is a perfect ending? Awesome. If only good ending will always be bittersweet, with a cost to it? Also good. I think majority of people will be invested in their MC and RO storyline, and would appreciate a decent ending for them, but would enjoy if the road to it is bumpy, with tragedy, and etc. So, it's like - other ROs(on whose path you are not on), family members and etc is free real estate almost, for MC and chosen RO I'd prefer if their is an option for them to stay alive and preferably together(while an option for them to stay alive and not together might also be delicious).
Also, would love to see how a character's death affects other characters and possibly the town and etc. Like, if Jay dies, how her family deals with it, who do they blame, how long is the hardest part of their grief or will it be never ending. Or a part about how not a lot of people are affected, especially if MC is grieving, also might be good. Especially with the Fog and how everyone treats death and disappearances as normal. Also, the fact that some MC might be more hardened, and some might be really new to even the concept of death (like, no one remotely close to them died before, and grief abd everything is new to them - they might even not know how to feel it, be numb, process and not really comprehend what happened for a long time).
Oh oh also about early endings and optional deaths and etc - Barbara Truelove did MC death in the end very good in my opinion. If you don't know her stuff, check it out. It's a general recommendation ahah, not something like do it this way - it's just that her IFs came to mind first and MC death there was satisfying, and maybe you can have fun reading her works, she also has books, like her recent of monsters and mainframes. One knight stand also has early endings and they are nice. Sorry for this long tangent.
Also, I would be unironically sad if pets die. You know that killing of Bones will cause riots. The website about whether the dog dies didn't sprout from an empty space, I think a lot of people are really shaken by a pet's death, so you can dish out basically free suffering, without a cost of a character and their ark and etc.
Oof sorry for such a long ask, you said in the post that we can send you our feedback and thoughts in the asks, so I decided to cash in my two cents about the topic. Also, while I understand that this topic is heavy, potentially triggering for some people, I absolutely love when authors tackle it well enough - it's an inevitable part of life, and for some people a big one, for some a defining one. And everyone deals with it differently, sometimes no amount of preparation is enough, but still I think it's an important theme to expore in fiction.
Ahhh thank you so much for such a detailed response!! It's very appreciated. Answering under the cut for length <3
In many ways, The Lonely Shore is about grief. Like......it's actually probably the main theme of the game. What grief is, what it does to people. How does one react when someone they love is gone? What does that grief do to people--what does it make them become?
Even if we go beyond death--Perri's grieving the loss of a normal life, in many ways. Beck and Croft are grieving their freedom (and also grieving for people, even though in Croft's case those people aren't actually dead).
So it makes sense to me that the story will have to touch on that directly!! I also am a fan of a bittersweet ending, and I think at the end of the day it wouldn't surprise me if several of the game's endings fall into the 'bittersweet' category. I also enjoy tragedies LMAO but I don't think I could sell a full-on tragedy in an IF.
Still. We'll see.
Examining what the deaths of the ROs (or other characters. Such as Willow, or the myriad of other side characters I have hjklanksad) does to everyone else is such an interesting avenue to me. Just have to figure out how I want to go about doing so, and if it'll be in this book specifically or if it has to wait...
And pet death is...probably off the table. Don't want people coming for me with pitchforks ;)
I'm familiar with Barb's work!! I'm a huge fan of Blood Moon and Thicker Than (marcel and nathan my beloved boys...), and I absolutely agree that the post-death scenes in Thicker Than especially are sooooo good. Definitely goals!!!
