#file 54

[elephantsmuse]

WDYM JUNIPERS NOT EVEN BRITISH HELLO???? I FELT SO SEEN......

i want to have a personal conversation with blue wolfe about this

[banana-can-do-art]

So, today’s episode broke me and I thought about it like all day at school while I was deprived of the ability to do a deep dive on my thoughts on it on tumblr. But now, I am here at last! Let’s start from the very beginning. First of all, I always love how often you can link the other channels that play at the beginning of the episode to what’s going to actually happen in the episode. So, just the fact that we were getting that crazy weather report at the start is proof in itself that Rowan is absolutely right. However, it was also absolutely hilarious, I love how casual the weather reporter was about Godzilla being involved in the weather report. Because it is normal for their world, but I love whenever chnt mimics corporate media that we hear on the everyday, it always does it so accurately because weather reports really do be sounding like that.

Now, into the actual episode. First off, it’s very interesting to note that when Jedidiah tells them to state their names and perspectives into the microphone, Juniper immediately goes first, and Rowan never gets an official turn to go. Already setting up from the beginning that Rowan has no power in their eyes.

Still, onto the matter at hand, the catalyst of the episode is that Rowan has stopped taking his meds. He says that they don’t help, they just make him slow. Which is and should be completely in his control. No one should be able to to force you to put anything in your body that you don’t want to, especially when it comes to matters of mental health medications, the person needs to be comfortable and ready for it. However, at the same time, it’s true that it’s possible for people’s brains to convince them they don’t need something anymore when it is in fact helping them. However, the issue with Rowan’s mental illness metaphor thing is that the visions that he gets are absolutely real. I believe that this serves to parallel how people’s mental illnesses can be impacted by things from the outside world. And while Juniper and the world may tell him to just take his meds, that’s not going to make his very real problems of knowing that the entire world is ending any less real. It’ll just dull the pain of it and make it more manageable for him, as well as more manageable for everyone else. But that’s just the thing, isn’t it? Who is Juniper really more worried about making things more manageable for? Rowan or himself? Thus causing Rowan’s insecurities about the whole thing. Because, Rowan is not making up Juniper only being able to handle him when he’s sedated. Juniper even admits that him being more manageable for a period of time was only half the reason that he asked him to date. While yes, it may be only half, Juniper doesn’t deny that it is absolutely part of it.

Rowan should get to choose whether or not he’s on his meds, but at the same time, it makes sense to be worried about what might happen to him without them. Especially, since previously, they seemed to be all that was holding him together. In an ideal situation, he’d have access to an actual psychiatrist, but unfortunately, in this situation, he doesn’t have that, so, he’ll just have to make do.

Juniper clearly does have genuine concern for Rowan in this. He genuinely wants him to rest and feel better. Even if resting and feeling better isn’t going to solve all of the problems with the whole thing about the entire world ending which by the way, Rowan is the only one who seems to be doing anything about that!!! What’s especially irksome about this is that while it’s clear that Juniper cares and is doing his best, he couldn’t even set aside his irresponsibility for Rowan in the face of the world ending. The time that Rowan trusted him enough to put him in charge of preparations, he painted race car stripes on the sandbags and forgot to stack them. So, um, you guys ever hear of weaponized incompetence? I don’t think that was Juniper trying to be cruel, I don’t think that Juniper is cruel, but him doing that just shows Rowan how little he actually takes this seriously. It shows Rowan that even the people who claim to care about him don’t actually care about getting things done right. Whether Juniper wants to admit it or not, he’s allergic to responsibility, and so when Rowan asked him to do that, messing it up was his subconscious way out. Now, Rowan won’t ask him to do that for him again, but at the cost of his trust. This is clearly an ongoing problem for them too considering how in the previous season, Juniper kept bailing on his taking the salmon to the penguins duties with Rowan and leaving him to do it alone. Juniper wants to rewards of being with a calm and happy Rowan without actually putting in any work for him.

Juniper also still clearly wants Rowan to be okay even if all he uses to express that is words and not his actions. Which also ties back to their previous mediation session in season one when Rowan told Juniper to carry fish with him and just saying that he cares about him isn’t enough and he actually has to put in the work.

But part of the problem with Juniper as well is that he keeps trying to come up with his own solutions for everything. As Rowan says, he keeps talking and doesn’t listen. Rowan doesn’t want Juniper to come up with all of these solutions to his problems right now, he just wants him to listen and acknowledge that it’s scary. That’s why his conversation with Sydney meant to much to him and resulted in him taking this arguably drastic measure. Because, Sydney didn’t really do all that much, he simply validated him. That’s the only answer that Rowan gives to what Sydney said, and it was really all that he needed, but of course, Juniper doesn’t get that and won’t do that.

Rowan also repeatedly gets angry throughout this episode, and rightfully so, but after each outburst, he’s always apologizing a bunch. And while yes, what he says is rude and blunt, it’s also valid and true and you can’t blame him when Juniper and Jedidiah are refusing to listen to him, and he’s going to apologize, then Juniper and Jedidiah should be apologizing to him too. (On the note of the anger in his voice at certain points though, Corey Wilder is amazing and incredible and the voice acting was amazing in this episode. Also it’s kind of hilarious that he’s also Sam in Twisted Wonderland because all of his lines in that are so goofy, and then you listen to camp here and there and it’s just like, we’re all going to die, the world is ending.)

Also, there’s a bit where Juniper says that he loves him, and Rowan tells him that he doesn’t mean it with is super interesting because it could both be an insecurity as well as the truth that Rowan believes that Juniper only loves him when he’s presentable to society and sedated and not being a bother and he doesn’t love him with all of his issues. And whether that turns out to be the case remains to be seen.

So then Rowan leaves and the conversation that Jedidiah and Juniper have sure is… interesting. It really shows just how different Juniper and Jedidiah are at being in a relationship with very mentally ill partners. Jedidiah immediately asks Juniper how he does it, how he handles Rowan when this must be a lot for him. And Junipers response really says so much about his character because he tells Jedidiah that it’s not his problem, Rowan handles himself. Which is, well, we need a middle ground between where Juniper and Jedidiah stand on this. Since Jedidiah is constantly worrying about Sydney, to the point where he’s becoming a bit of a control freak and controlling his life and taking away Sydney’s autonomy. Which is, you know, not good. However, Juniper seems to just be so unbelievably unbothered. Which while that has some issues to it as well, it’s still refreshing to hear him tell Jedidiah that Rowan is a grown man after all of the accidental yet still very there times that Jedidiah has infantilized Sydney. Because yes, Sydney and Rowan are grown men, and while they may not be mentally well, it doesn’t mean that they don’t deserve autonomy. One of my favorite bits of that topic of conversation that they have is this:

Because yes, yeeeees, while Juniper and Jedidiah as the people looking out for their boyfriends all of the time are absolutely in their right to have emotions about that responsibility and feel the weight of it and that’s very valid, Rowan and Sydney are going through so much worse, and they really have to remember it before making it all about themselves. Which, despite all of his faults is what I love about Juniper in this episode, that he doesn’t try to make it seem like Rowan’s suffering is his problem. Yes, he wants what’s best for Rowan, but he wants it for Rowan, not because Rowan’s mental illness is his problem. Even though, it still is absolutely part of it that Rowan having a better mental state would be more convenient for Juniper, he still frames it as Rowan’s problem and not Juniper’s problem which is just so refreshing considering all of the problem’s of Sydney’s that Jedidiah has made into his own. Which yes, it’s nice that he’s trying to help with Sydney’s problems to an extent, but he’s putting way to many of Sydney’s issues on his own plate when they don’t need to be and then blaming Sydney when he can’t handle it.

I also really appreciate this line from Juniper, since compared to Jedidiah, he’s not trying to take anything away from Juniper or force him into anything. He’s trying to give his opinion by taking him to this session, but if Rowan refuses, he’ll be okay with it. And obviously, that’s really difficult for Jedidiah to do because he does not have the same go with the flow personality that Juniper does, but still, he should try to be a little more like that with Sydney. However, the complete lack of care that Juniper shows also isn’t good, because, hey buddy, could you please at least stack the bags instead of painting race car stripes on them.

And then Juniper starts yapping about how he does not understand any of the gender politics articles that Rowan’s been showing him which while it’s absolutely hilarious, especially the remark about the nonbinary eraser, it really does showcase how little Juniper actually ever listens to what Rowan is saying. Rowan tells him about trans politics and tries to teach him about it because it’s clearly something that he’s passionate about, but Juniper doesn’t really take him seriously or seem to care since, well it doesn’t affect him. But then he still gives himself a pat on the back for being super supportive by um… listening to the words even though he has no idea what they actually mean.

At least Juniper is still being helpful and providing Rowan with granola bars which Rowan said he liked during his conversation with Sydney, so that’s nice. It’s subtle gestures like that which show that Juniper really does care and he is trying even if he’s a bit dumb.

Then Rowan comes back and gives us a lore drop about how he randomly has memories form before Jedidiah broke the universe which means that Rowan does somewhat know a bit about what’s going on. He knows that things used to be different, but it seems that he doesn’t know exactly why. I’m not sure what he would do if he found out that it was because of Jedidiah, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the measures he would take would be drastic. What’s especially interesting about the particular flashback that Rowan tells us about is that he has memories of actually really enjoying the sky and hating having a roof over his head. Which could be paralleling how some mental illnesses can develop later in life and then suddenly you can’t do things that you used to do. Same with physical disabilities, we know that Sydney’s have worsened over time as well, once again linking the two of them. However, another interpretation that could be had of this is that before the world got scrambled, I wonder if Rowan ever had some form of actual non metaphorical mental illness that somehow got morphed in terrible visions from the sky. Especially since the way that the sky visions are treated very much parallels things such as OCD and schizophrenia, and maybe schizotypal? But we’ll get into the implications of those specific parallels in a bit.

It’s really sad to hear about how much he lived the universe before it broke. And then Jedidiah apologizes to him. Because he knows that this is his fault! But he won’t reverse it because it was always for Sydney. And he won’t let Sydney go to reset the universe no matter how much it’s hurting everyone else as the very fabric of reality tears itself apart and now Jeiddiah knows that Rowan knows somewhat!!! And Juniper has no idea because he’s just like it’s always been this way! But it hasn’t! Rowan is right and no one will believe him!

And then Rowan says that he loves Juniper but he’s tired and he’s going to leave to go somewhere quiet and that he’ll be back eventually and then he just leaves and I’m deeply concerned about where he’s going. He probably has come to the conclusion that he’s the only one who can do anything about the oncoming storm since no one else takes him seriously, so he’s going to go out and do something drastic about it and I’m deeply concerned. Also, I’m so scared that the next episode is going to open with Sydney ont he loudspeaker like hey, has anyone seen Rowan, if you have, please alert us, but he’s probably off doing *insert joke about Rowan’s crazy behavior to lighten the mood and comfort the campers at his expense*, although, after recent developments between Sydney and Rowan, he might not do the joke thing since he apologized to Rowan about belittling him over the loudspeaker during that one episode.

And that’s the end of actual text of the episode analysis. It’s time to move onto bonus thoughts. First of all, let’s talk about how this is one of the most blatant and best examples of Camp Here And There’s subtle integration of subtle and systemic oppression. Because let’s have a look about this room. Jedidiah and Juniper are two cisgender white men. And Rowan and transgender black man. While Juniper and Jedidiah aren’t trying to be overtly racist or transphobic or whatever, the power imbalance is very much there, and it’s ingrained into them that whether they realize these things or not, it allows them to talk over Rowan and take his opinions as the mentally ill, transgender, black man of the scenario less seriously whether they consciously realize it or not. The trans thing was also very specifically brought up when Juniper started yapping about how he doesn’t understand transgender politics and micro labels and such that Rowan was showing him, making it very clear that this was absolutely intentional.

Now, it’s time to talk about a little connection I made. That’s right, it’s time to compare the treatment of Rowan’s sky vision mental illness metaphor thing to black people with schizophrenia. This makes sense, trust. But also, before we get into this bit, I want to say that I am white, and so obviously I’m not going to fully understand this experience, but I’m going to do my best with unpacking this bit, and if any black people have more knowledge about this, very much feel free to chime in. Actually, everyone chime in, please engage with my thoughts on this I must talk to people about Camp Here And There!!! According to WebMD, black people were nearly 2 1/2 times more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia than white people. Schizophrenia has been associated with blackness due to the way that people would call black people who were involved in protest movements delusional and schizophrenic as a way to dismiss their concerns by writing them off as crazy. But that causes an overlap with both racism and sanism because it directly shows how having a mental disorder automatically makes someone less credible. Espoeven more so if that person is black. Again, Jedidiah and Juniper aren’t trying to be racist, but this is woven into the fabric of society, and it’s likely a subconscious bias that they retain. Because it is in fact that deep. That’s what I love about Camp Here And There, it is very much specifically written for you to look deeper into things. And well, Rowan’s visions from the sky sure do have a ring of schizophrenia to them.

Personally, I more so relate the OCD parallels in his magic sky visions as I have that but not schizophrenia. In the ways that he feels compelled to do things to stop bad things can happening that only he can see, leading people to not take him seriously even when he has very valid and real concerns, and rather just right it off as his mental stuff rather than taking him seriously or at the very least validating him.

Rowan’s character very much reads to me as an alternate interpretation of The Boy Who Cries Wolf. I remember, in the Land Of Stories Series, the character, Connor writes an essay that is something along the lines of being about how it wasn’t the fault of the boy that he was attacked in the end, but rather it was the parents fault for not continuing to check on him considering that was their responsibility, and just because a kid lied or even just got scared for no reason a few times, doesn’t mean that your support of them should cease. That’s not responsible at all. It’s not the boys fault then, it’s the parents. It won’t be Rowan’s fault that no one takes him seriously when something bad happens, it will be everyone else’s fault.

And on that note after repeating the word boy so much it now thinking about how gross it is that the narrator keeps referring to Sydney as the boy and Jedidiah as the man, like shut up, they’re like the same age and that’s gross, and Sydney is a grown man!!! Stop this infantilization!!!

Also, Rowan from the beginning is made to be treated as a bit of a joke by the audience. Haha, funny doomsday weather man, only for us to later find out more about him and severely this impacts his life and feel guilty that we’ve been treating him the same way as the ignorant characters around him.

Oh, and we found out that JUNIPER ISN’T BRITISH?!?! What in the Rook Hunt from Twisted Wonderland pretending to be the Twisted Wonderland equivalent of French?!?!

[ratskullwithasideofmushrooms]

Rambling rant about chnt (mainly focusing on episode 52 and onwards!) (this will be mentioning Sydney’s self destructive behavior; up and Adam’s devious plans; Jedidiah’s guilt/fear/anger; and a few other things) (including the rant about why people should not hate Fennel for the way they talked to Sydney)

Hi! This is just me saying that this rant won’t be as organized or formalized (if you can call it that) as my other rants about these topics! As I am a bit busy and these are just random thoughts I am trying to mold into the form of words. So without further ado, let us begin!:

I want to start this off with the rant about Fennel’s talking to Sydney thing. Because I have been saying I would write that down for what a month or so now?: 

Fennel shouldn’t be hated for what they said to Sydney regarding Soren and other things, because Fennel is clearly very worried, but not just for Soren. Here’s what I mean by that; notice how they say that “[they] hope [Sydney] never has a loved one hurt the way [Soren] is” which is an important line to think about, this is because they are (yes) worried about Soren, but also because they are worried that Sydney won’t be able to help/won’t be willing to help if someone he (Sydney) cares about is in trouble. And yes this doesn’t excuse the way they said before that “no wonder everyone hates you” and “you are so mean” but theres context here: first of all when Fennel first came in to talk to Sydney, they weren’t aggressive. They simply were asking for help with Soren, (though we’ll get to more on the matters of Soren later), and when Sydney outright refused to talk about it or try to help they were devastated, because they don’t like seeing Soren hurt; think about it, you would probably do anything to help if a close loved one was hurt or was about to do something dangerous. What would you do if you were denied help for them?

Fennel is lashing out at Sydney due to the stress of seeing Soren hurt, but also to try and teach Sydney to take care of people/care for their feelings as well as his own.

Now to rant about Sydney’s self destructive behaviors + up and Adam yayyyy:

First of all Up and Adam specifically suggested the therapy to Sydney because he knew Sydney couldn’t resist it after some time and several factors causing stress in relationships; as we all know Sydney wants to be “eaten by something that loves [him]”. But this isn’t love, not in the way that two people loving each other is love, but in the way a hunter loves its prey. What I mean to say is, Up and Adam is preying upon Sydney’s vulnerabilities (which include him being insecure, and any stress in his relationship with Jedidiah), but he is doing this in such a way that its disguised as love. He acts as if he’s doing Sydney a favor, which is not true. Because, while it was VERY unethical for Jedidiah to do what he’s done, what Up and Adam is doing is just as bad if not worse. 

Up and Adam may not be lying about being able to cause Sydney’s death, but and this is a big but, if this goes too far then Sydney won’t be able to turn back if he decides this isn’t the way. Adam’s way comes with a price to pay, and the cost is pretty large: to succeed in what he’s doing, Adam has to successfully push Sydney to withdraw himself from everyone (which he’s done a pretty good job in doing), make everyone tire of helping him, and get him to willingly give his blood and more.

So far Adam has gotten Sydney to be bitter towards everyone, by making him believe (through using his insecurities) more than he did before that people hate him. This has caused him to both ignore other people’s feelings but also to make private arguments public (like we saw with Joshua). And when he’s confronted for that, he either pushes people away more, or lets them get a bit closer temporarily only to push them away again when they offer solutions to his problems. Sydney has also willingly given Adam blood, an eye, satisfaction, and love, and fear. Adam is feasting on Sydney and in return only giving him pain; I didn’t mention death, because he isn’t giving Sydney it in the way that he’d wanted/normally would happen. Sydney is already self destructive in many ways, but Adam is specifically using this weakness and trauma and fear to get him to be more and more self destructive.

If you’ve ever felt gross after Up and Adam either talked to or about Sydney in some way in any of the episodes (idk if you have), I wouldn’t be surprised, because the man is essentially abusing Sydney, so subconsciously you know somethings not right about the way he’s talking about Sydney. And there is a plot reason for it, Adam takes joy in eating Sydney both in body and in emotion, he drinks in Sydney’s fear, anger, sadness and fuels it, he eats Sydneys eye, and drinks his blood; he seems to have a reason he believes this to be a good thing. He is scared of Sydney, but is using this to grapple for power above him, he wants to feel strong, and to satiate his never-ending hunger. 

Another point I would like to make is the fact that Adam is always eating snack foods and packaged foods, but those never fill him. We know hunger and love are connected in symbology for this at least, so I would like to purpose a theory: Adam is low on love, he craves it, and cannot get it, we see him desperately trying to fill himself with it through eating, eating snack foods, those weren’t made with love, they were mass produced and packaged. He enjoys the taste, but they do nothing to fill him. When he realizes he can’t fill himself with them, he uses them just to temporarily satiate himself until he can get more love/food. In this case, Sydney, he is eating Sydney, eating his love, eating his care, in the form of getting him to lay all of his trust upon Adam. By doing this Adam is bestowed with trust, love and food. The food is Sydney himself, given with care. This fills him because it is filled with a type of love, a twisted type of love yes, but still love. But, in a lot of symbology love is in the heart… is he saving that for last?

Adam is interesting to think about in comparison to Elijah, because both are trying to kill Sydney, for both different reasons and the same if you think about it. Because, Elijah was trying to make him live forever to worship and importantly feel the love of. While Adam is trying to kill Sydney while importantly drinking/eating his love. Both of them are doing it for love, both in twisted ways, but also very different ways.

Sydney is killing himself in mind, meaning he is making sure everyone around him would already consider him too far gone to save, so when he’s actually gone, they won’t think twice of it.

Now the matter of Jedidiah:

Jedidiah is an interesting one to think about, as he obviously cares for Sydney, in so many ways; but he isn’t good at expressing it, and the ways in which their relationship is without change are kind of toxic. Jedidiah doesn’t want to lose Sydney, but also in many respects already has, he is’t willing to let go but also isn’t willing to make things right. He is scared, he feels guilty, and he wants to love and to be loved as anyone would be. 

Whatever he did to Sydney is something he won’t admit, because he regrets it, he is scared of what he’s done, so he does what he needs to to keep Sydney alive but he never processes it fully, otherwise he’d feel even more guilty for what he’s done, and he wouldn’t be able to look at Sydney without remembering in detail all that he’s done. Though not processing it has also caused him trauma, trauma he’s trying to suppress rather than work through, which is what causes him to avoid Sydney and to snap at him all the time. He does want to protect Sydney and keep him safe but he cannot in his current condition effectively do so.

If you have anything to add/point out you can mention it to me! Or if you just want to discuss it I am willing to do so!

[cleoenfaserum]

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[beccasafan]

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Unknown <system error> Sat, Dec 22, 2019, 9:05 PM (90 days ago) to Brian K.

get͏ ̴you͞r ̶own ͞t̛o͟ys.

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