#loflin

[scoobydoodean]

Hey, so, I’m listening to SPN then & now podcast. Last episode they review the last episode of season 7. They have Bob Singer on, and he’s talking about looking forward to season 8, and he mentions that they had a huge fight in the writers room about Benny. Basically one writer dug their heels in and insisted that Dean would never be friends with a vampire, that he would have killed him as soon as they escaped purgatory. The writer threw such a fit that Singer finally had to say “you know what, we’re doing this, you don’t want to write it, fine, write something else.”

So I looked into it and the only S8 writers who didn’t write post-purgatory Benny scenes were Thompson, Glass, and Dabb. I don’t think it’s Thompson because of Charlie’s line “Did you break up with someone too?” from LARP and the real girl, like he understands this is a real relationship that Dean cares about. It could be Glass, but all I know about him is he was in an earlier episode of the podcast (to discuss his unfortunate dog episode) and seems pretty chill and humble. Also this was only his second season with the show. But Dabb/Loflin wrote an episode with a Benny flashback and then split up! And then Loflin writes Citizen Fang?! Is this what their fight was about?

Sorry this post would be better suited for my own blog if I had an active one. I just wanted to maybe get some other eyes on/opinions on my theory.

Ho ho ho! *Rubs hands together* I love the idea of an SPN writer telling on themselves that they never bothered to actually watch the fucking source material and learn that Dean risking his life to defend a vampire happens by fucking 2x03.

Okay so. I'm gonna try to do this carefully by process of elimination through all the season 8 writers.

Jeremy Carver - (8x01, 8x23) Easily eliminated from the running because he was the one doing the running. He was showrunner.

Ben Edlund - (8x05 Blood Brother, 8x13 Everybody Hates Hitler, 8x21 The Great Escapist) Another easy elimination based on "Blood Brother".

Bucklemming - (8x03 Heartache, 8x07 A Little Slice of Kevin, 8x15, 8x19 Taxi Driver) Ross-Lemming is Singer's wife, so he probably wouldn't just talk shit about her/her writing partner. Plus 8x19 contains Dean and Benny's emotional goodbye with Dean promising to bring Benny back, and telling Sam he buried Benny instead of burning his bones in the hopes he would come back someday. This attitude from Dean is fundamentally at odds with the position of the writer described.

Adam Glass - (8x06 Southern Comfort, 8x12 As Time Goes By, 8x18 Freaks and Geeks) 8x06 opens with Sam and Dean arguing about Benny, and Dean pointing out that they just let Kate the werewolf go with zero issues. 8x18 seems to eliminate Glass from the running completely, given Dean defends innocent vampires again in this episode.

Robbie Thompson - (8x04 Bitten, 8x11 LARP and the Real Girl, 8x17 Goodbye Stranger, 8x20 Pac Man Fever). I agree with you about the breakup line about Benny from 8x11. Additionally, in 8x04, Sam and Dean let Kate the Werewolf go and they're both in agreement on it from the beginning. Sam actually provides all the caveats to letting her go. Dean is barely paying attention, focused on Kate and her friends claiming he says "awesome" too much. Zero worries about Kate.

Jenny Klein - (8x10 Torn and Frayed) I debated on this one a little more, but ultimately, I doubt it was Klein for two reasons. First, because she only contributed 1 episode to season 8, and it was her fourth credit in the whole series (1 episode writer credit each for season 5, 6, and 7. I doubt she would dig her heels in in the writer's room (if she was even there for this) against Carver and Singer. Second, there is also another fight between Sam and Dean over Benny at the beginning of her episode, 8x10, which splits them up when Dean refuses to agree to cut ties with Benny after Sam issues an ultimatum. So despite Sam getting to pretend he's been so horribly wronged and that he did nothing wrong (which in itself just ends up reflecting poorly on him since he won't hear Dean out about Martin), I don't think it was Klein.

This leaves, as predicted, Dabb and Loflin by process of elimination.

Andrew Dabb - (8x02 w/Loflin, 8x08 Hunteri Heroici, 8x14 Trial and Error, 8x22 Clip Show)

Daniel Loflin - (8x02 w/Dabb, 8x09 Citizen Fang, 8x16 Remember The Titans)

Dabb and Loflin are also particualrly good candidates. In fact. I am 100% sure based on the story that this is about Dabb.

First, unlike Klein, Dabblin would be comfortable throwing their weight around, because they were credited as producers by this point.

Second, prior to season 8, one of their episodes was the infamous "7x03 The Girl Next Door". Maybe one of them felt they had constructed some sort of seminal work there (lmaooo) and felt that Benny's existence was somehow "undoing" that.

Third, and most importantly, Citizen Fang would have been an important episode for the season, because it temporarily splits the brothers up. The writers room would have wanted to assign this episode as soon as possible and had it being worked on. If Dabb and Loflin were assigned this episode or if, Loflin really wanted this episode and Dabb really really didn't because he fundamentally disagreed with the idea that Dean would protect a vampire and that that would put him at odds with Sam, then that would finally explain Dabblin's sudden split after four seasons of co-authorship, and Singer's particular wording "you don’t want to write it, fine, write something else".

The idea of Benny causing them to split as a writing team because Dabb refused to be party to Citizen Fang is fascinating.

Nothing about Citizen Fang shows confusion or handwringing regarding Dean's moral position on Benny. His attitude is extremely consistent. Loflin seems extremely certain of how Dean feels about Benny and the ethics of protecting him and shows him justifying his position without compromise.

[scoobydoodean]

Interesting how three new writers came onto the writing team in season 4, and suddenly Dean is allegedly obsessed with high school cheerleaders according to Julie Siege (4.07), and Dabb and Loflin (4.13).

[scoobydoodean]

source

[scoobydoodean]

One thing that bugs me about after school special is that the dude they casted for "teen" Dean is literally a decade older than young Sam. He was closer in age to Jensen than to Colin. Normally I wouldn’t gaf (none of the younger Dean actors ever hit the mark for me so it is what it is), but combined with the episode’s complete lack of empathy for his situation as a parentified child, it feels more insidious. It frames him as way older than he really is, and in a way normalizes his parentification. If they had casted an actual 16 year old, their dynamic would look a lot more honest to what it truly was.

You know I'm don't think I've even fully worked out my frustrations about After School Special yet. I had to stop thinking about it last night because it was 3AM and I had to go to bed (also for more context, see posts I reblogged from Leyla last night jshdbfjhsbdfh).

This episode is just so... messy. It tries to say too many things, it says some absolutely stupid things and some okay things, and in other places, the narrative isn't clear (or maybe Dabb and Loflin are at war with one another on the subject of Dean—who knows). I find some of my frustrations and why I have those frustrations... difficult to explain in words.

That is a good point about the casting of Brock. Mind you—I have nothing against the actor here. I actually have always thought Brock did a great job copying Dean's mannerisms and way of speaking (I assume Jensen worked with him during the episode) and I think he does his best with what he's given and the role he's expected to play. The writing itself isn't his fault, of course.

From a height perspective, they wanted to intentionally contrast Dean with Sam all episode, who's being mocked by Dirk (who's paralleled with Dean and is literally our only window into sympathy toward parentified children which... isn't much at all) for being shorter than him, and I think that's part of why they chose someone much older and taller than Collin Ford.

I also don't think we're necessarily meant to dismiss the knowledge that Sam is much taller than Dean as an adult, but the thing is, if they wanted me to buy into the idea that everyone in After School Special is a bully (except maybe Barry), they did a terrible job. Sam hardly comes off as a bully—all he does is defend himself from someone who used their pain as an excuse to make his and other people's lives miserable (we get better evidence of bully!sam in their previous episode—"Yellow Fever"—actually). Is that what Dabb and/or Loflin think of Dean? That he's made Sam miserable? How? By *looks at notes* not obeying his every whim and following him around like an obedient dog, or perhaps by being dead? Hm. Except Dean doesn't even make Sam miserable in this episode (unless making jokes Sam doesn't find funny counts). Sam even picked the case they're on—Dean doesn't actually really want to go to their old school. Young Dean is reiterating that he'll look out for young Sam the entire episode.

I do think people are right when they say Dean's height (and much older appearance) are meant to reflect how Sam perceived him (After School Special is nearly fully from Sam's POV—Dean is more of a plot device than anything). Young Dean is immediately popular in school. He's handsome and makes the other kids his age laugh from the moment he enters the classroom. He immediately catches the eye of popular girls, and Barry and Sam have an exchange about it.

BARRY That's your brother with Amanda Heckerling? He's cool. YOUNG SAM Yeah. He thinks so.

Sam's paper about their werewolf hunt is, by the teacher's recounting, one where Dean shines the brightest—not Sam. He's the first thing that catches Wyatt's attention. What catches his attention second is John dragging them everywhere. Sam doesn't really factor in at all.

MR. WYATT I'm not flunking you. I'm giving you an "A." Now, aside from the werewolf, is that really how you'd describe your family? YOUNG SAM Yeah. MR. WYATT Well, your brother is quite a character. And your father -- he seems, uh, driven.

This also isn't a bad nugget about Sam, in an episode that comes right after 4.12 which is also to an extent about the desire for fame and attention and the old school versus the new school (where Sam represents the hot, new, popular magic that embraces demonic forces and is pushing out the old ways of doing things). I said 4.13 is also about envy—many of the murders are driven by projections on others. Dirk perceived Sam and Dean as "Jocks... you popular kids... you always thought you were better than everybody else." When that wasn't them at all. I've said that Sam is jealous of Dean (his bravery in combat despite zero powers, in previous seasons—his intelligence and way with people, his title as "the righteous man" while Sam is "the boy with the demon blood"). Dirk was projecting his resentments onto people they didn't apply to as a function of resentment and jealousy from the superiority he himself ultimately perceived them to possess, and that's much more reminiscent of Sam this season (we're about to see him project his insecurities on Dean and become the Big Bad Bully in the next episode—4.14):

OK, fine. You know why I didn't tell you about Ruby, and how we're hunting down Lilith? Because you're too weak to go after her, Dean. You're holding me back. I'm a better hunter than you are. Stronger, smarter. I can take out demons you're too scared to go near. [...] You're too busy sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Whining about all the souls you tortured in hell. Boo hoo.

For Sam, After School Special isn't a terrible episode. It's just that it almost fully treats Dean as a cartoonish plot device and the neckbeard-type loathing for him almost seeps off the page even with all the nods to performing Dean you could ever want. In After School Special, Dean seems more unlike himself than any episode ever in the history of Supernatural up to this point. I do actually kind of think Dabb took one look at Dean when he came in in season 4 and decided he's a bully because he's popular based on nothing—however much he pretends he's only saying something else... and honestly I don't think he ever really got over it.

[scoobydoodean]

Re: my additions about Dabb last night. It’s definitely difficult to separate Dabb from Loflin, especially because Loflin leaves almost immediately after separating from Dabb in season 8, and I do think their attitudes when writing shifted and matured over time. But what were their first episodes written separately?

Dabb’s very first solo piece is, perhaps, the only episode that gives Sam a legitimate shred of sympathy in season 8–“Hunteri Heroici”.

The very first thing Loflin does when seperated from Dabb, meanwhile, is pen “Citizen Fang”—an absolutely scathing commentary on Sam’s destructive, seething jealousy.

Then Dabb writes “Trial and Error” which tries also to lend Sam sympathy, and strongly reiterates that Sam actually cares about Dean despite appearances.

Two episodes later in “Remember The Titans”, Loflin has Sam practically gaslighting Dean about the promise from “Trial and Error” never even happening.

Granted—all of this may be more a function of the larger storyboard and Carver—whose seasons reveal a very strong preference for Dean imo.

[scoobydoodean]

Jesse in 5.06 (Dabb and Loflin episode) is such an obvious proto-Jack. Cas wants to kill him before he can do anything bad. Sam relates to his destiny for evil. The demon says to Jesse, “Wouldn't it be better if there were no lies? Come with me and you can wash it all clean. Start over. Imagine that—a world without lies” which is exactly what happens with soulless Jack in Moriah.

[ardentpoop]

Executive story editor Daniel Loflin confesses, “I liked writing the soulless version of Sam better than the regular version. I have trouble writing the puppy dog stuff. When I first start writing Sam’s dialogue he talks like a normal dude and then I tone it down later.”

—Supernatural: The Official Companion, Season 6 by Nicholas Knight (page 72)

[ardentpoop]

certainly a take.