#ltc notes

[psychopomp-namine]

I am soooo hyped for qiao ling and li tianchen interactions. probably my most anticipated relationship in the show tbh. they aren't the protagonists so I'm not expecting a lot of screentime, but I hope they get a substantial amount.

I'm also very much in favor of characters breaking out of their established trios, and qiao ling needed to have relationships of her own outside of cheng xiaoshi and lu guang (xu shanshan is more of a side character so she doesn't help bring the narrative spotlight to qiao ling except for S1).

anyway. thoughts on the preview for their dreamout song and lingchen in general:

happy to see stage lighting again like in S2. ltc theater kid is real to me.

tvs again. we've seen them before in the halloween video (with liu xiao) and the re:wind video (with a hooded figure that I can only assume is li tianchen since he actually wears a hoodie, and especially since "game start" is something he'd say in canon — though he picked that up from liu xiao).

in all three instances, there's the ominous feeling of surveillance, which in a way is kinda ironic since qiao ling now has the ability to keep surveillance herself, if it's true that she inherited li tianxi's ability to peer through a person's memories and recent actions through a photograph.

oh hey, that kinda reminds me of this image from the tides:

what I'm most excited about is the potential for identity shenanigans with qiao ling. she inherited li tianxi's memories, but was once possessed by li tianchen. in both mind and body, she already knows what it's like to "be" the twins, even if for just a short time. li tianchen himself takes advantage of how he looks like li tianxi, and has disguised himself as her before. there's potential for blurring the lines between them.

the twins are both wearing wings here. they often do have wings in previous AUs (fairy wings in mod, or that one time they drew li tianchen with bat/devil wings)

as much as I would like to see the real li tianxi, I think the preview implies that a lot of the instances we see li tianxi is actually of li tianchen.

I'm not really sure what I want to see with lingchen interactions in the future. I think they're both a bit isolated from the other characters. qiao ling is right now only tied mostly to the main trio, and li tianchen is right now only tied to liu xiao. I think there's a lot of potential for the two of them to be kind of the wild cards that shake up the story, but who knows.

on qiao ling's side of things, I am cautiously optimistic that they'll do some identity mindfuckery with the twins that stresses her out and I think that would be soooo fun. I also think she could be a good foil to liu xiao in that how she interacts with and understands li tianchen (partially through li tianxi's memories) would be a great contrast to liu xiao's approach.

I'm not sure if they'll ever bring this up, but li tianxi and qiao ling both share the similar trait of keeping secrets from their loved ones, even if it causes them pain in the future. those secrets also tend to not be theirs to share anyway (the divorce is liu lan's, bridon is shao yuanyuan's). I kinda wish the show would touch on that a bit more.

I don't know if they plan to redeem li tianchen through qiao ling. I'm kinda on the side of, "I don't think they can legally do that given what he did in two seasons and censorships may not let redemption fly without him suffering dire consequences like dying — there was an effort, for example, in making lu guang's intent to kill vein very metaphorical whereas li tianchen did explicitly do all those murder-suicides" + "liu xiao will drag li tianchen down anyway." it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for him, imo? redemption through death seems possible, especially with all the angel wings imagery... but hey, maybe they'll work something else out

on the other hand, I think qiao ling can be confronted with the guilt of keeping secrets again in the future, but this time chooses to avoid inaction and share them when the time is right. idk if li tianchen will be the impetus for that, per se, but he could be a living reminder of what the domino effect of that guilt could bring about. a cautionary tale for qiao ling.

guilt is a very familiar feeling for qiao ling. she sees herself as partially responsible for other people through her inaction (see: doudou's kidnapping, bridon, etc) whereas li tianchen is always looking to change the one event that changed his whole life, assigning blame to the first domino that led to his life becoming a living hell.

I wonder, too, if maybe qiao ling is li tianchen's final test regarding liu xiao's hunter metaphor. he mostly "killed to survive" (in a sense) but him targeting qiao ling will not be for the protection of someone (like with their parents) or under someone's orders/guidance (like with qian jin). this one is personal, of his volition. I kinda imagine liu xiao is just seeing how this plays out for li tianchen...

idk though. there's a lot of ways they can make this pair interesting. I'm just happy to see them interacting.

[psychopomp-namine]

the thing about xiaochen is that li tianchen wishes they're doing the "childhood friends to.... something" trope (whatever that "something" means; idk if li tianchen would go far enough to presume they'd be together long-term, in whatever sense you want to interpret that as, but like, he wouldn't be opposed either, is the thing). but liu xiao thinks they're doing the "king and loyal guard dog" trope and there's a high likelihood he does not see the two of them as childhood friends. and I think li tianchen knows this. which is what makes his side of things even more layered and interesting imo. he's like a little duckling imprinting on the first person that didn't make him feel shitty. it's a very low bar, but li tianchen was dealt with terrible cards, so [shrug emoji]

the thing too is like. I don't think li tianchen is unaware that liu xiao is using him or sees value in him for being useful, rather than for who he is. he just also doesn't care at this point, imo? maybe he also has a hard time seeing value in himself as a person, so in his eyes, liu xiao's pov makes sense

because li tianchen attaches his identity to being “a good brother” and without xixi. well. what is he then? he has no family, no friends, and all the adults in his life failed him. and in his eyes, when he finally asked for help (by giving the photo to lu guang, and then later kidnapping cheng xiaoshi lol) it didn't work out.

so of course when liu xiao calls him up and reaches out a hand, what else was li tianchen supposed to do?

it's like. look, maybe one day liu xiao is gonna ask him to jump off a cliff for him. do you think li tianchen would be surprised? 'cause I don't think so. I don't think he's naive about what they are. but he's gonna do it anyway because what else is he gonna do? "do I have other choices?" he's gonna do it because it's liu xiao who asked him. his "friend" who has always been "right" thus far

in a twisted way liu xiao hasn't “failed” him like everyone else has. li tianchen is a person who really needs to have a sense of power and control over his life and not even liu xiao is giving him that, but it sure is the closest thing because nobody else is gonna offer him anything

interestingly, I think the only other person we've seen him call a "friend" was cheng xiaoshi, whenever he references them having little "games" built on "trust" which. in hindsight. is hilarious because that's a very liu xiao way of speaking lol

anyway, totally headcanon territory, but my ideal S3 dynamic for them is if they both know liu xiao is only pretending to give li tianchen control but liu xiao is really the one who holds all the cards. and maybe that's fine. li tianchen wants to "feel" in control but maybe not actually, because he actually thrives in chaos and being out of control imo. insert prometheus lyrics here, or something. whenever li tianchen tries to take control of his life it kinda spirals. so like. this partnership works out for both of them. also li tianchen is totally a guard dog kinda character and without xixi, well. he might as well put that energy into liu xiao now. something something he's still an older brother to liu xiao who is the estranged younger sibling of the liu family, even though their power dynamic is actually flipped. it's like playing house; it's all pretend, but it makes li tianchen feel good about himself, and maybe that in itself is worth it. maybe, to him, it's the best he can ask for now. and also he still obviously looks up to liu xiao so it's not like this is a hardship for him

they're kinda messed up but I hope they get messier in S3 lol. we still really haven't gotten much of liu xiao's inner thoughts so I would love to see what he actually thinks of li tianchen in S3. something something "those lost in the darkness are my friends"

like does he even like tianchen as a friend? does he see himself as saving him, or using him?

when he reached out his bare hand, perhaps knowing that li tianchen can possess him if he wants to (a direct contrast to how qian jin always wore gloves), was it a calculated move on liu xiao's part to garner li tianchen's trust? will there ever be a time that he'll trust li tianchen genuinely, when there's nothing else for him to fall back on? what is on your mind, liu xiao...

[psychopomp-namine]

oooh now see I totally get how killing off li tianchen would be too sad. but I honestly don't think it's too sad for link click to pull off. and I think it fits his character if they execute it well. I can think of a worse, more tragic, more sad ending for him than dying; in fact, I think dying would be his best ending lol (saying this as a li tianchen liker, please I have him as my icon, I swear I love him. I just also think the narrative wants him dead)

my personal thoughts on potential endings for tianchen:

he goes to jail: this is probably the most "realistic" ending for him that doesn't kill him off. the narrative still demands that he pays for the murders in S2, so he can't go "unpunished." however, I think this ending is incredibly boring and a waste of his character, but hey, maybe he can beat up qian jin in prison for catharsis

he "disappears" somehow: the least satisfying ending. I am not even considering it

they somehow change the past, thus changing the li tianchen we know: I don't think they'll do this when they established in S2 that changing the past is a futile attempt, but hey, with shao yuanyuan running around, who knows what will happen. the possibilities are that li tianxi lives and li tianchen considers being an ally to the photo studio trio. OR: li tianxi lives and li tianchen dies in her place. personally, I like the latter option more, as it preserves the idea that you can't change the past without consequences. this is my second preferred ending.

he dies: sad because they'd be killing off both twins, but hear me out. li tianchen is a character that needs to feel like he has control over his life, but he is also a character that the narrative demands punishment for. so to me, the most satisfying way he can do that is if he chooses to die or risk his life, most likely for someone else's sake. because li tianchen is a "protector" first and foremost, it's just that with li tianxi gone, he has nothing left to protect. the way I see it, he will probably die either for liu xiao, or (hear me out!!) protecting qiao ling (as a proxy for li tianxi) (I haven't debuted my li tianchen & qiao ling fic yet but I swear this makes sense. you just have to believe in the vision). in any case, in prometheus he sings about wanting to lash out at the world and whatnot so, tbh, we should let him go out with a bang. at least he actually gets to feel in control for once in his life. if he dies, it's because he risked death himself. what else would he live for anyway, without li tianxi? idk I think it would be sad but very cathartic for his character when done well

he becomes an actual puppet for liu xiao OR liu xiao steals his ability: when I said I can think of a worse, more tragic, more sad ending for him, this is it for me. and when I say puppet, I don't mean in my usual xiaochen rambling way where li tianchen has some semblance of power in the relationship despite their optics. I mean puppet in the literal sense: completely stripped of agency, just a tool to further whatever liu xiao is planning. total corruption arc in the worst possible way for tianchen. ditto for if liu xiao steals his ability instead (resulting in tianchen's death). I think this is the worst ending for him.

I should probably note that I'm a tragedy enjoyer and I don't want a redemption arc for him lmao. these are just my personal preferences. if link click ends up giving him a redemption arc, I guess that's fine... I just think whatever he has going on right now with liu xiao is already super interesting and deserves exploration.

however, I will play devil's advocate for myself. potential ways tianchen could be "redeemed" without dying:

he joins the time police (or whatever jae lee's organization is). I don't really see him doing this, but maybe the show can convince me. maybe he gets out of prison time by being recruited by jae lee

he doesn't become friends with lu guang, exactly, but he does help stop the time looping with shao yuanyuan, which I think lu guang would want to prevent (from tianchen's perspective, I imagine this happening in a, "if I can't get my happy ending, why should any of you get one?!" way. it just so happens that seeing that through also serves lu guang's mission of preserving the timeline where cheng xiaoshi isn't dead)

he betrays liu xiao. I also can't see this happening however I would be very interested to see them try it

regardless. I just want more tianchen. sorry to make this post on your birthday, but happy birthday li tianchen, hope you get a good ending, or a bad one <3

[psychopomp-namine]

trying to organize my thoughts as I write the "lx gives ltc the neck tattoo but it's really a xiaochen relationship study" fic. this isn't very organized, so bear with me.

this is wild speculation at this point, so I have to put a disclaimer that I think there's a low chance this will happen in canon. that said, please consider the following ideas:

the craziest plot twist they can do at this point is that liu xiao wants li tianchen to be his successor of sorts. which is something I never considered and never would have in a million years if not for the blindfold transfer

but. this isn't shown to be a good thing. in keeping with the undead themes of the mv, and the general sorcerer imagery associated with liu xiao across multiple artworks... imagine if the blindfold represents a "curse"

now usually, you wouldn't want to inherit a curse. but, well, li tianchen has nothing to live for and nothing to lose. so.

several other things I would like to point out:

young li tianchen incorporating young (?) liu xiao's worldview (re: hunters and beasts)

liu xiao dressing up the mannequin in his colors and in clothes he would wear

this isn't the first time they've associated mirrors with liu xiao now. something something reflections and likeness something something

I also kinda wonder if the dead/pinned butterflies in map of dreams (behind the mirror) might also represent the same thing that the empty mannequins (without the clothes/blindfolds, see above screenshots) do in the pain mv. they both serve to contrast the flying butterfly and the clothed/blindfolded mannequin (<- yes. I am picking up crumbs. li tianchen is the butterfly in mod)

which begs the question... what are the pinned butterflies and naked mannequins to liu xiao? see, I don't think he's had that many victims, even if that is what the metanarrative wants us to believe. he's a manipulator! he's the mastermind! yes, yes, I get that. that may even be true.

but let me play devil's advocate for a bit.

consider, once again, that liu xiao himself is blindfolded here. it really doesn't make sense to me, because it does not match the image we're presented of liu xiao. he should be putting the blindfold on other people, not wearing one himself.

we see this symbol on liu xiao's neck, and we now see in this mv that it's associating itself with putting liu xiao in the blindfold. weird!

would it be too out there for us to consider that liu xiao himself might have once been, metaphorically, a butterfly/mannequin himself? were the butterflies/mannequins in the background his many, many victims, or is he one among many that perpetuates some kind of cycle that creates more butterflies/mannequins? something to consider.

lastly. there's also sonnet 121

sonnet 121 is about pointing out hypocrisy and refusing to be judged for sins by people who are themselves sinful (it's also a poem on infidelity lol)

within this context, it also makes sense why liu xiao associates with people like vein and li tianchen. they don't shy away from what they've done. li tianchen doesn't show remorse for his and qian jin's victims. he hated the hell he was in and wished his mom didn't die, but I don't think he regretted killing his dad. vein... is just an honest guy lol, he also hates lies and I do think he enjoys being a mafia boss. there's something genuine about his leadership and violence. and I think liu xiao appreciates that kind of sincerity in people.

"'tis better to be vile than vile esteemed" + "those lost in the darkness are my friends" indeed

the funny thing is, "hypocrisy" and "fraud" are words that are being associated with him a lot. yet they are concepts that don't necessarily describe him, but are things he doesn't like himself, which we're seeing again with sonnet 121. if we're keeping score, liu xiao busted the gambling fraud in yingdu and is most likely the one that commissioned the emma case, which exposed the fraud in quede games.

anyway, I'm not saying that liu xiao is a good guy or anything. just that sonnet 121 shows us he is aware of what his reputation is (to who?) (aside from the audience, that is) and his response is that he refuses judgement and will keep doing... whatever it is he's doing.

"or on my frailties why are frailer spies, which in their wills count bad that I think good?" / "unless this general evil they maintain: all men are bad and in their badness reign"

I've been trying to think of who exactly is judging him in canon. maybe we haven't met them yet. but considering how liu xiao loves breaking the 4th wall (and, I believe, is the only character to have done so, so far), I wonder if this is also another one of those instances. the way the metanarrative presents him hasn't always been 1:1 to how he actually acts so far. this is less "I think liu xiao is actually good!" and more "he doesn't think he needs to justify himself to us" which! is always a fascinating character trait to me. and tbh I think this is part of why li tianchen admires him (the other being that he is just surprisingly impressionable)

anyway. bringing this back to xiaochen. we have liu xiao blindfold wearer passing on the blindfold to li tianchen. li tianchen wearing liu xiao's clothes by proxy of the mannequin. there's something to be said here about how he also put on li tianxi's clothes in S2....

there's many ways we can interpret this, of course. for me, these are the new li tianchen possibilities I personally want to see:

liu xiao gives him the same neck tattoo at some point (cool)

he starts wearing purple more and wears more clothes in liu xiao's style (SUPER SAD. HE'S ONE OF THE MOST COLORFUL CHARACTERS IN THE SHOW)

"dye your mind with the faded violet" indeed

[psychopomp-namine]

the thing about liu min & li tianchen is that you can only look at their relationship in retrospect, not only because li tianchen was introduced in a later season, but because red eyes wasn't even supposed to be li tianchen at first

watching S1 and trying to insert li tianchen in the scenes and relationships that show up is like picking up all these puzzle pieces and trying to fit them together and they kinda do even if they weren't planned to fit together in the first place

notably, the "friends" thing is mostly associated with liu xiao now, but li tianchen does a similar friends tactic with cheng xiaoshi (he and liu xiao are also the two people who tend to think of schemes as games), but liu min also called red eyes his friend. so I really want to explore the theme of friendship that links these three together

not to mention frayed siblingisms with the li twins and the liu siblings. the role an older sibling takes and a younger sibling dwells in, of being the favored/golden child between the two. what leads you to let your sibling die, of indirectly killing them? I think it's deliberate, but if not, it sure is a neat coincidence that the younger sibling (liu xiao) and older sibling (li tianchen) are the ones who pair up at the end, an idea I already explored in another fic but like, idk, I still can't stop thinking about even now

anyway, even if li tianchen was created in the aftermath of S1, in trying to retrace the story, it makes me wonder about the untapped potential of what some characters would be like if li tianchen was conceptualized earlier. for example, if liu min worked with li tianchen for a while, I think there's a missed opportunity (or maybe we'd see it in S3, idk) of liu min realizing that li tianchen is attached to liu xiao. most fans, as far as I can tell (and myself included), like to characterize liu min as jealous of liu xiao being the new favored child of their parents. the insecurity of being surpassed by your younger sibling, the anger of being dismissed by your own parents and seen as not worth much, etc etc. and like. if he had li tianchen in his hands while liu xiao was away, would that not be a golden opportunity for him? there's something to explore there, to have something over his brother. like, I do not think li tianchen is in awe of liu min like that, but. I also don't think liu min is entirely stupid, either, and if you flesh him out a bit there's something there you can find yourself tolerating if not sympathizing with at times. we've all had friends who can be awful to be with (okay. to be fair. I don't think li tianchen has ever had a good not-awful friend in his life asdfghjkl)

something something in that li tianchen had a job with qian jin. and liu min, as far as we can tell, is the closest "peer" he had regular contact with, who gave him opportunities to exert control/power in a "justified" way. and is also rich and metaphorically puts food in the table. their friendship is transactional but spoken of by liu min (in S1) as something that could be real/dear to him, much like how liu xiao operates (but with less finnesse)

and it's up in the air how much li tianchen actually kept in touch with liu xiao in the years liu xiao was away. and liu min is not liu xiao and he never will be (a pain point liu min greatly detests, perhaps, in light of liu xiao being the new favorite) but. he's there. liu min is there, in a way liu xiao cannot be

I think their relationship is unfortunately not fleshed out because of the completely understandable circumstances of the writing process (censorship requiring a rewrite of the red eyes concept) so we can only look back in retrospect as if li tianchen has always existed in the story, and ask if that changes anything at all

[psychopomp-namine]

// S3 pv

dude. are you serious.

I mentioned this as a reaction to the pain pv but oughhh seeing that it might actually happen now...

I really liked li tianchen's colorful design. guess I should prepare to mourn the lack of yellows and blues and pinks soon 😔 it's kinda inevitable that they'd change clothes since that happens per season but. I wish they kept some of the pastels....

also, I think this might be the first time I've seen him drawn in cmc media's style? (I assume the pv was from the same studio that did yingdu; cmiiw though)

I do prefer studio lan generally but they draw li tianchen'a eyes really prettily in this pv

[psychopomp-namine]

ltc is such a character because like. his ability is literally about taking total control over someone else and yet he rarely ever feels like he personally had choice or power in his life. he can puppeteer you if he so wished but he never feels like he's in a position to actually wish it. even though he says he can. he himself is the puppet. the one time he wants to control someone of his own volition and not for someone else, it falls apart in his face in the most spectacular way. and yet so much of how his life spiraled is a combination of choices out of his control, but also choices within his control. bad decisions upon bad decisions, bad circumstances upon bad circumstances.

the way how he technically has the capacity to exert so much power at any given moment yet is almost always the powerless one in the room anyway. this is peak ltc writing to me.

[psychopomp-namine]

vein as a fox -> the twins are fox cubs -> vein as a "beast" in liu xiao's beast-hunter metaphor -> li tianchen meets vein and for the first time is confronted with the idea that he doesn't have to be a "hunter" to survive -> li tianchen caught in the ideological tug-of-war between vein and liu xiao -> ultimately decides it doesn't matter which role you have as long as you get to set the forest on fire