#maligrants

[maligknights]

Pffft that post by fuckyeahfefates and its replies is so very telling of the divide between the fanbase. It's fans like them who overvalue superficiality and insist on drawing the line why this fandom sees so much shitty drama.

[maligknights]

Thoughts on Echoes: Shadows of Valencia

Just finished the main game and…

This game is incredible. *Gross sobbing*

I am amazed at how it is so faithful to the original to the point the gameplay retained some of the clunkiness of Gaiden, but uplifted in a way it is way more fun than the original.

The original NES title will always have a je ne sais quoi that people seem to either love or hate (which I personally find unique and charming) and that Echoes cannot emulate, however I would recommend Shadows of Valencia over the original a thousand times. 

SoV took a honestly kinda tedious game and turned it into a thrilling experience filled with great characters, an incredible atmosphere and most importantly, upgraded the level design into something fun and exciting. 

The new characters are fun, the new designs and dialogue are gorgeous and full of flavor; and the retcons to the original plot not only create a much more complex and poignant narrative, but fix Gaiden’s biggest issue as a sidequel to Shadow Dragon and fill in the blanks that the Lore of the original did not have the time to bridge.

I will admit I am a bit sad I did not get to see your reactions to “the twist” since I finished late bc time so I avoided the tags like the plague (which apparently spared me a lot of drama as well).

Now to spoiler discussion:

On my first thoughts I really was expecting the new twists to strip the aim of the bare narrative of the original, but I was pleasantly surprised at how well the retcons were handled to the point they could find a converging point. SoV is still about man giving their gods the finger which is just great. 

Like I have already said, the fact that Duma and Mila were turned into Divine Dragons and how Alm and Celica’s bloodlines now have a crusader esque touch, gives Valencia the sense of continuity it was sorely missing. Lorewise, the original had nothing to do with Archanea to the point that Judgral made a better sidequel to Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem because of how their timelines kinda add up and their struggles have the same origin point. This gives the FE Multiverse more continuity and makes it larger as a Multiverse and bridges the Kaga Era games into one, more complete Universe. 

Alm is much less of the homicidal nutjob of the original which loses memetic value but is a much more compelling character. Celica is just adorable gimme so I can hug her and bake her a cake or something. The characters are pretty cool, not as complex as some other FE titles but very very enjoyable, even the flatest are fun to hear. Rudolf is a great antagonist, the fact that we have townspeople to flesh out the world so much is great, the music is excellent, agh I can just gush about this game for hours.

I really love the narrator’s final lines and how it ties to Medeus’s dying words.

I am not going to say that this is 100% perfect, but it comes really close, so if I had to nitpick: 

Well, Duma and Mila broke the agreement between Divine Dragons by: First, interfering with man so deep they became FUCKING GODS and messed with the natural conditions of their habitat. Second, knowing how powerful Divine Dragons are and how dangerous they become when degenerating, why did Naga allow them to keep their dragons forms? Gotoh and Xane discarded their dragonstones to prevent them from destroying worlds and Naga instead of punishing them gave them a Falchion twin to Marth’s in case they degenerated so wtf Naga, do your job! IDK seems kinda unfair that Naga actually went to Jugdral to stop an Earth Dragon, but left Mila and Duma to their devices knowing Divine Dragons are waaaay more powerful.

The DLC and Postgame are coming though, I am awaiting that to see how Grima’s origin tale gets, but with how the retcons have been handled, I have a certain hope for how they are going to fix the hot mess that is Ylisse’s lore which is VERY commendable. I am still intrigued whether Robin is the true descendant of Alm and Celica or if Grima’s pact stems from a completely different bloodline (Judah’s maybe?). I love the fact that they specify that Alm and Celica’s bloodline lasts a thousand years because you know with what that aligns? That’s right, the first exalt. So my prediction that their bloodline was uprooted to prevent Grima from returning via vessel might be true. It’s very interesting that you get to look at Ferox’s origins, a hint of how the climate of Archanea changed and a few tidbits about Grima.

Fernand had way more focus than Berkut. I really like Fernand but let’s face it, Berkut was the bigger villain so his breakdown and death was not as emotional as Fernand’s who had a really long and cheesy death scene (that brought me to tears but yes). In the same vein, we needed his relationship with Rinoa to get more buildup so the sacrifice could be much more effective, although I will say that when he turns her into a witch is the best thing ever. Berkut you asshole.

The Zofian royal family could’ve been fleshed out a little bit more, especially with the addition of Conrad. And like Fernand’s death there were some slightly forced and/or predictable moments, but the story was pretty well handled. 

But all in all…. It is an amazing game as both a standalone and as a remake, far better than Heroes of Light and Shadow thanks to the risks they took with the gameplay and story and how wisely they used the assets of the original.

THIS is in spirit how Fates should’ve handled itself. Especially considering that Nohr and Hoshido have similar setups and a similar truth about the protagonist.

I have faith that Echoes as a brand will continue, I am really looking forward to the next remake which will probably be either Genealogy of the Holy War or Binding Blade. I am looking forward to how they’ll fix Elibe’s lore and how they’ll expand the gameplay and the already vast world of Jugdral. Elibe’s history has a similar flavor to Archanea, so it might make sense that they also share an origin (especially with that theory about the Dragon’s Gate and Nagi and how Heroes has handled Elibean lore which has its issues but eh… we’ll see).

[maligknights]

Huh, so I see names popping up for the rewrite. (That poor horse pulp that is FE14). Granted the FE Universe article about Nami Komura is troubling, but it's also may be quite inflated (I feel inclined to believe it more than dismiss it as a witch hunting because we have seen this kind of shit happen before with games like Mighty No. 9 where someone who has no interest in what they are working in completely warps the final product). Like sure, 4Chan loves flaming, but just because they are hating on someone doesn't necessarily mean it's a complete lie, especially if this lady has a bad rep on the japanese fandom. On the other hand, the fact that IntSys had a big ass staff change after FE12 is more likely the cause than pinning everything on Ms. Komura... Then again, with the success of FE13 & 14 in the marketing department and her involvement, perhaps at the helm, in everything non-remakes does strike a nerve in me for future games and provides a decent explanation to the stuff we have seen since 2012. I was willing to read a few comics by Mr. Kibayashi to see exactly where his print is on the writing since he is apparently responsible for the larger plotholes in FE14 and was THE writer in Fates... Some other people seem to have their mitts in too, I need to check the credits in both games to start making the connection because honestly the type of mistakes that we see in both games are so strongly patterned I don't think we can pin the blame entirely on the dude who only worked on one game. Internet drama has a way to grow into something much larger than it really is so I should take this with a grain of salt :p Food for my own thought I suppose.

[maligknights]

Okay lemme be Nitpicky Mc Nerdypants for a second here

As a keeper of retcons kinda, it is my duty to point out a meaningless detail about heroes that doesn’t make a lot of sense:

So in the Blazing Shadows Paralogue, Not!Zacharias was investigating the origins of the bullshit Eldritch evil that is most likely slowly possessing Veronica right?

He specifically mentions that the origin legend of the bullshit Eldritch evil, referred to as the “Original Demon” (no connection to Formortis confirmed yet), was written by Braimmimond one of the Eight Legends of Elibe and is implied that he used the Elibean Dragon’s Gate in Valor to get there.

While this is a cool attempt to tie in the FE Multiverse which tbh always gets me hyped, three things:

-The Elibean Dragon’s Gate cannot be opened by humans. Only dragons can use it according to the lore in Blazing Sword. It would seem that Awakening (to some extent Fates) and Heroes retconned that now they can be used by anyone. Which kinda kills the climax of FE7 but I digress.

-With the knowledge that the bullshit Eldritch evil is transdimensional, it would make more sense that it was Athos or Nergal who learnt of it thanks to Arcadia. The dragons who have lived there were most likely aware of the FE Multiverse and thus the kingdoms of Askr and Emblian as they are referred to as keepers of these portals in some way. Braimmimond went for a 900 year vacation to Bern and died there before Binding Blade.

-Granted Braimmimond was the ultimate dark mage kinda and was omniscient in some way, but Not!Zacharias finds the scriptures in Valor which would point more towards Nergal who actually lived there for quite some time and who was definitely aware of the purpose of the Dragon’s Gate via Aenir. It would also make sense that since Nergal was studying to become a sorcerer with powers on par with Braimmimond himself, he would’ve learned of the Original Demon’s existence as a source of the power he desperately needed. I wouldn’t mind if the game would’ve gone as far as retconning that it was the Original Demon who drove him insane.

[maligknights]

@burgermiester fair enough. Although I meant strictly the story stuff that was cut which made it more adult in the sense that it is more gritty and complex and explains that the characters DO have human motivations. Like the concubine wars (which is what dame and I are always salting about). I am 100% on Treehouse's side for removing that stupid minigame that yes, is foolish sexual garbage that makes the company look really bad not just from a western/outside of japan perspective but from the eyes of anyone who isn't into the hardcore moe and dating sim scene.

[maligknights]

Quick tangent to the translations stuff.... How are we, as Nintendo fans, supposed to convey to other gamers that Nintendo has its share of "mature" games if they keep getting neutered by the localization?

[maligknights]

@damoselcastel I knew you would answer to the call lol. But yeah that sounds about right... No clue where they got that ascinine idea though. FE13 still had some dark areas and considering the premise of the franchise itself plus the particularly tragic setup for this game anyone with half a brain would think that making it "friendly towards younger audiences" was not the way to go but what do I know. Corporate minds and translators rarely mix too well with artistic integrity. Well at the very least no matter how the tonal whiplash of the castle kills the momentum of the drama to some extent I guess it doesn't extinguish completely, especially in Conquest where (shock) all we are alluding to had the most impact.

[maligknights]

Awakening: A Rewrite

Much of Awakening’s story issues could’ve been solved with a quick revision of the script. I think the writing team should’ve checked the outline and the details with a bit more care just to make sure everything was consistent. Maybe a second revision to if not make an honest to god sequel at least make sure the retcons didn’t create bigger plotholes. Honestly if it weren’t for the plothole that renders the whole story useless, most of the shit in Awakening comes from terrible retcons.

Another big issue with the team directing the effort to the 8th Gen FEs is that they got a little too carried away with the gimmicks and new mechanics: the kids idea, although infused with an interesting twist that would allow to use Gens 1 & 2 simultaneously, perhaps was not the best idea to keep the integrity of the story but rather allow the player to keep their MU for the second half of the game. Which if they wanted Robin to be this game’s Julius, they probably shouldn’t have made them an Avatar and give them a scripted death (at least in the bad timeline). Look, the story should serve the gameplay, it’s a videogame, not a movie or a comic. However I think it’s time for the developers to come up with ideas that serve each other, not get in the way (Fates is much worse at this, so I’ll pin it for the next discussion).

Keep in mind this is considering the continuity of both Mystery of the Emblem and Genealogy of the Holy War, as Awakening takes (and then tosses aside) many plot points and lore elements fron these games (I cannot make sense why Valm is here other than the geographical continuity with Archanea and even then it is completely ignored and Valm’s role really isnt essential but rather a detour in both story and level design). All of which SHOULD HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED IN AWAKENING if the game was at least 50% intended for newcomers. Following the canon your story is based on not only gives it more consistency, but it might have generated more interest in remakes for Gaiden and Genealogy of the Holy War. Just sayin’.

Anyway, here is your ever-needed disclaimer and spoiler warning before we take on the quest of reconstructing Awakening. 

As one final disclaimer for this quick specific rant-thingy, this is a quick how I  would’ve fixed Awakening, if you wish to discuss ideas or think mine sucks, or if I left out something important, feel free to expose your opinion somewhere on the internet.

I am always open for FE talk. ;3

 I think to make the story flow a bit less clumsily, Awakening should’ve stuck with the FE4 formula: Chrom dies in a poetically similar fashion to his father, deepening the wound between Ylisse and Plegia as Robin succumbs to Grima. Chrom realizes right before his death why his father started the war in the first place. Years later, Lucina and the Gen2 characters take on the duty of finishing what her grandfather started. 

Throughout the story, we would need to gradually expose the lore of FE3 and 4 as both Lucina and Chrom realize that history is repeating itself. This way we can truly have a sequel to FE3 AND a spiritual (and in this case lore) successor to FE4, plus explain a few things that Awakening just skipped and you wouldn’t be able to make sense of if you didn’t play either. Along the lore of the games Awakening borrows from, it would be important to make the distinction that the arrival of Grima and the war of the First Exalt (which presumably shook the geopolitical foundation of Archanea) created a new Era; justifying some of the changes to FE3’s map layout. Throughout the quests for the stones in both Lucina and Chrom’s campaigns we should revisit some of the most important old locations. 

I wouldn’t change much for the first chapters except that the Ylisseans, particularly Frederick to keep him in-character, should be very wary of Robin even if they genuinely have lost their memories. Sure, they start building a powerful friendship with Chrom and the Shepherds which loosens suspicion as Robin proves their worth to them; but they should all be on edge on the fact that Robin is very obviously a Plegian mage and judging by their attire and genius for tactics, could’ve very possibly been a Grimleal. The subject of the Brand should come up for both Chrom and Robin (with the Mark of Grima keeping it a secret between Chrom and Robin, and perhaps Lissa and Frederick). 

Emmeryn’s role should also be much more prominent if she sacrifices herself for the good of Ylisse/Future Archanea. Let’s create a scenario where those who pact with Naga can also bring Naga back much like Grima regenerates himself (or how Loptyr can come back through a vessel with enough Holy Blood). Emmeryn heeds her father’s last words as the tensions with Plegia escalate: destroy Grima’s vessel, save the world. Emmeryn as one of the last containing Holy Blood of Naga (the other turning out  to be Chrom) attempts the Awakening ritual but years of doubt and the anger that surrounded her father’s death cloud her mind and thus she fails to receive Naga’s power and dies.

This would raise the stakes for Chrom: last of his bloodline, yet if unworthy he will also meet the same fate as Emmeryn and trump their chance to vanquish Grima forever. The story should keep raising the stakes: by the second act of Chrom’s tale, he marries, but his heir carries minor Holy Blood, leaving him no choice but to attempt the Awakening himself as the Exalt’s bloodline has finally begun to wane. A choice appears: Chrom doesn’t have to fully bring Naga back by becoming her vessel but rather restore their bond through a less risky ritual (the Awakening presented in the game, but similar to the ritual of the Miracle of Darna) however, first they must gather the stones to complete the Fire Emblem. 

So third act goes very similar to the original: Validar creates a trap by offering the final stone, Sable (formerly the Darksphere, whose powers he may have been exploiting). He uses the power of the shield to perform Grima’s ritual on Robin and reveals the former Exalt’s motivation and also his own: Plegia, formerly Dolhr, have had enough of Archanea and later Ylisse’s shit and demand retribution for the genocidal wars against its inhabitants and threaten to create a new order blah blah. Chrom is dead, enter Gen2. 

An easy way to bridge Mystery of the Emblem while also explaining Grima would be to tie in the reforging and separation of the orbs of the Binding Shield: Gotoh and Marth have been gone for millennia, so nobody except Tiki knows what the Binding Shield really does: seal the earth dragons and prevent Tiki’s (and by extent other dragons’) degeneration. 

Imagine Grima is Medeus’ heir (son or friend, pick your poison) but without the power of the Binding Shield, he degenerates (as explained in the Archanea mythos earth dragons are last second to the divine ones to degenerate) and is left only with the desire for vengeance he shared with Medeus. (This could also explain why we see so few dragons in the game aside Nowi. Perhaps retconning that since Nowi has a relation to divine dragons or humans she is among the last to degenerate). 

An alternative would be that during the First Exalt’s coming as the Shield is broken by time or the orbs are separated to be kept by the new nations as a symbol of peace and whatnot, one (perhaps the last) earth dragon wakes from slumber. Much like Loptyr, Grima bonds with a Plegian human to avoid degeneration and upon seeing how the former lands of Dolhr have been decimated after millennia, his desire for revenge against humans is reignited. Perhaps an added bonus would be that he finds some common ground in misery with Plegians which leads him to bond with their leader. 

However in either case, the still somewhat fresh memory of Archanea and Jugdral aids the warrior who would become the First Exalt to do the same with Naga and seal Grima away. By the time Emmeryn’s father is crowned, legend has erased the truth to the Binding Shield and the bloodlines have waned. 

This would also explain why Tiki still slumbers in Valm in the newer game (let’s just move her somewhere else, perhaps we can revisit and aged or even abandoned Dragon Shrine?). As explained at the end of FE3, as long as the shield remains complete, she would not have to sleep to avoid degeneration. Plus it would also somewhat justify why the descendants  of Marth didn’t have this knowledge. Tiki would go to sleep as soon as the orbs are scattered as ordered by Bantu, Xane or another ally who would more or less know what the deal is and who could pass the information to the First Exalt to seal Grima before their death.

Years after Chrom’s death, Lucina takes her father’s place as Exalt as the last bearing the mark (perhaps we can add a mini arc for Owain, though clearly he has minor blood). However she knows she does not have enough Holy Blood to perform the ritual. But Nah being a manakete, learns/senses Tiki still lives and as she is revered as Naga’s Voice (perhaps saving her relation to Naga as a twist for newcomers) she may have a clue on how to save the Ylissean continent.

Sidenote: If the concept of Holy Blood works the same as in FE4, Owain and Lucina could contemplate the alternative of producing an heir themselves, justifying their possibility for marriage.

As Lucina & co arrive to save Tiki from Grima’s forces, Tiki communicates to Nah the truth about the Binding Shield and sends the Gen2 army to retrieve the remaining orbs (perhaps some already collected in Chrom’s campaign) so Tiki can awaken and lend Lucina her power. (Another bonus: Tiki explains that since Nah has a human father she does not need to worry about degeneration, perhaps hinting at Nowi’s origins and fate). 

Lucina should achieve the “Awakening” through Tiki (since Naga’s situation in FE13 is a bit hard to grasp bc she’s supposedly long dead) not necessarily the same way it was handled in Future Past, but rather Lucina reforging the bond the First Exalt made but with Tiki who as explained in FE3, may be even more powerful than Naga herself. With her newfound power and perhaps assurance that Lucina’s bloodline will last longer than her ancestors’, she is ready to put Grima to slumber/destroy him with the aid of the complete Emblem. 

We could also retcon the twist that Grima can only be truly vanquished by his own blood thus the “true” ending can only be achieved if you recruit Morgan. Which gives them much more agency in the plot. So by the third act, Lucina & Co. convince Morgan about Grima’s true nature and in turn Morgan realizes that Robin is no longer the loving parent they’ve known (which should have alternate dialogue if Morgan is Chrom’s child and fem!Robin is still a marriage option for Chrom) and he or she decides to help the kids finish the Earth dragons forever. Morgan much like Julia in FE4, would probably have little to no marriage options due to their bloodline.

Of course there are more plot points in Awakening’s storyline, but I wanted to focus on the main conflict for this rant. Now, if you really want Valm back, here’s how I think it could work. As I mentioned earlier, Valm/Valencia is not absolutely necessary to this story as the lore doesn’t really have anything to do with neither Archanea nor Jugdral, which is what Awakening borrows from. 

With the FE4 formula, there would be a slight compromise of the marriage system and how it works in Awakening. I propose that instead of substitute children, fatherless kids either simply get a downgrade in stats or are carbon copies of their mothers. 

I do want to mention though that it would be extra important to give Robin depth despite the convenient excuse for amnesia if we are keeping the focus on them (and subsequently Morgan) as co-protagonist(s). As explained in my “Worst Sequel” rambling, of course Robin should have much more involvement and character development where they are plagued with the guilt of turning against their countrymen and building a much stronger connection between him/her and Validar. I think retconning Morgan as a whole would be necessary as well, perhaps expanding on Future Past Morgan and overall give them more to do in the plot.

I think the efforts of Awakening (and Fates too, though Fates fails spectacularly) despite their waste can be pretty cool in the end, but the writers really need to ask themselves two questions: How? And Why? Only then we can return to the great storytelling that made FE a cult phenomenon.