Steve Pemberton & Miranda Richardson chat to Graham Norton about Mapp & Lucia, December 2014
Transcript below:
Graham: Speaking of Christmas lists, on top of BBC1’s — and it’s a big old list on BBC1 this Christmas — there’s a new three-part adaptation of Mapp and Lucia starring my guests now, Miranda Richardson and Steve Pemberton. Hello.
Miranda: Hello.
Steve: Hello!
Graham: Merry Christmas. There, we can say it.
Miranda: Yes.
Steve: Thanks very much.
Miranda: Tis the season.
Graham: Yeah!
Steve: If we’re on top of the tree does that make us the Christmas fairy?
Graham: I think it does. Yeah, it does!
Steve: Well, I’m very pleased about that.
Graham: I have to say, BBC1 have kind of really done well this Christmas. There’s some great things on.
Miranda: Oh, what else? I’m not aware of anything else apart from Mapp and Lucia.
Graham: Well, obviously I won’t mention them now. Let’s not—
Steve: Professor Branestawm? That looks good.
Miranda: Oh, I’m in that!
Laughter.
Steve: Well, there you go!
Graham: Anything else? Are you in Esio Trot?
Miranda: Sky’s…Christmas films…list.
Graham: Oh, yeah. Many, many, many things. Now listen, Mapp and Lucia, it… Okay, so Steve, you adapted it.
Steve: Yes.
Graham: Now, I don’t mean this to be rude, but did someone ask you to do it or did you just decide, no, I want to do this?
Steve: Um, somebody asked. Which was, but it was a very pleasant ask. The BBC bought the rights to the books, they’d been filmed about 30 years ago and broadcast on Channel 4. And I absolutely loved the previous adaptation and I devoured all the books and when I heard that somebody was, you know, gonna make it for the BBC, I just had to be first through the door.
Graham: And what about you, Miranda? ‘Cos it is a gift of a part for an actress.
Miranda: It is a gift of a part, but I’m an ignoranus… No, I can’t even speak. I’m an ignoramus and I hadn’t read them, and I didn’t watch the last adaptation, although I know that my folks absolutely loved it. I absolutely did not watch it, but I had such a fabulous time and Steve’s done such a fantastic job on it. Fantastic adaptation.
Graham: But now, ‘cos E.F. Benson, he wrote them back in the 20s and 30s.
Miranda: Yes.
Steve: That’s right, yeah.
Graham: And I mean, the people, they are sort of ghastly people. Erm, but you know what I mean? Yet they’ve had this amazing, enduring appeal. How come?
Miranda: Well…
Graham: Discuss.
Miranda: They’re loveable. They're lovabel, for all their foibles. They’re kind of, you know, humane actually, and they’re just… Like Lucia, when she’s looking around the place, she says, “Oh, isn’t it marvellous? They’re all being so human and busy.” And they are. They’re sort of adorable.
Graham: And also, things change, but things don’t change. I mean, communities still have all these people.
Steve: Absolutely. It’s about social one-upmanship, it’s about sort of bitching behind closed doors and twitching curtains, and I’m sure there’s a little bit that goes on. Er…
Graham: Oh yeah.
Miranda: Yes.
Graham: Oh yeah, Radio 2 listeners, they know all about it. And the locations are just stunning in this version because you went to the real — well, Tilling isn’t real, but Tilling was Rye.
Miranda: Yeah.
Steve: Yeah, I mean, E.F. Benson lived in Lamb House in Rye, which used to belong to Henry James, and he looked out of his window and saw these women bustling around the High Street with their baskets on their arms and thought, mm, idea! And we, amazingly, were able to get into that actual house. It’s a National Trust property now, but we were able to get in as long as we were watched and we didn’t knock anything over.
Miranda: Yeah, yeah.
Graham: Did you, Miranda Richardson? J’accuse!
Miranda: I- No, and there were thistles on the seat cushions so you couldn’t even sit down, so I didn’t even try.
Graham: And the people of Rye, I mean, obviously now they must love it because it’s a tourist attraction and all those sorts of things, but back in the day, it must have caused a sensation in Rye when he wrote these books.
Miranda: Well, particularly because of, um, he deals with Quaint Irene and Georgie, who is known as, “Not…”
Steve: “Not obtrusively masculine.”
Laughter.
Steve: You’ve heard of the phrase as camp as Christmas… Hello!
Miranda: And these people are, of course, accepted as part of the community. So, yes, he was talking about rare stuff and I think Quaint Irene was based on, um…
Steve: Radclyffe Hall.
Miranda: Radclyffe Hall.
Graham: Oh, did Radclyffe Hall live in…?
Steve: Yeah.
Miranda: Yes, they are all there.
Steve: Lots of writers and artists, yeah.
Miranda: Yeah, it’s fantastic.
Graham: And also we are so lucky in that Rye is apparently untouched by time, I mean it does look, it is like you’ve built a set because it’s so perfect.
Steve: And that was the brilliant thing, you were able to get these 360 degree shots. And normally with a costume drama you’re confined to the one street where people walk up and down, but we were able to film all over the place, weren’t we?
Miranda: We were, yeah. Up the tower and…
Steve: The central bit of Rye, they call it the Citadel, and it’s a bit like having the right postcode in London, if you’re in the Citadel, you’re a proper…
Miranda: You’re okay.
Steve: Person, but…
Graham: It must be an annoying place to live because I bet it's one of those places where you need permission from the council to paint your door. It must be.
Steve: Probably.
Miranda: Probably, yes. But you know what? They can do no wrong. They used to hand us gin and tonics, or try to, from their doors as we were filming in the street.
Graham: Oh, we like these people. That’s for handy neighbours. Miranda, we must talk about the teeth.
Miranda: Must we?
Graham: So, how were they done? Because… Were they just big fake teeth?
Miranda: Well, very comfortable fake teeth and actually very light. So light that I was capable of breaking them.
Steve: Three times.
Miranda: Several times, yes. Oh god. You’ve got to do something with the budget, haven’t you?
Steve: But she rather disturbingly used to leave them in her lap.
Laughter.
Steve: Anyway. We won't go there.
Miranda: Yeah, move on, move on.
Graham: But no, ‘cos I felt for you because you kind of think…
Miranda: No, it was my choice. I mean, I felt inadequate in the tooth department and if you do read the books, which I highly recommend, he goes on about the teeth quite a bit.
Graham: Yes, and Mr Pemberton’s adaptation also includes the teeth, so…
Steve: Yep.
Graham: So they are as advertised.
Steve: Yes, absolutely.
Miranda: You get what you…
Graham: We’d have been disappointed if we hadn’t seen them. And when was this all filmed? Because it’s all sunny and beautiful.
Steve: In the summer. We had a beautiful summer.
Miranda: We got lucky. We really got lucky.
Graham: But Rye, presumably, is very busy in the summer.
Steve: Well, we filmed June and July…
Miranda: Yeah, but not the Citadel.
Graham: Not because you shut it.
Steve: There were tonnes of like Italian and German students, weren’t there? You know, lots of National Trust people with their guidebooks, but loads of students because it’s an area of historical interest.
Graham: Oh yes it is. And beauty, indeed. Listen, Mapp and Lucia, BBC1. It’s on, ooh, it’s on the 29th, the 30th and the 31st.
Miranda: Don't go out.
Steve: No escape.
Graham: Yeah, it’s boom, boom, boom. At five past nine. It’s so precise this, I like it. Five past… Not nine. Not nine!
Miranda: First one’s at five past nine.
Graham: Oh.
Miranda: And then the others are at nine.
Graham: Are you sure?
Miranda: Well, believe so.
Graham: Okay… Alright. Well, check your Radio Times. We are one BBC, even though BBC sold it. Anyway, I’m chatting to Miranda Richardson and Steve Pemberton and people have been in touch with questions for you both. I shall alternate. I will start with the ladies. Okay, Ned in Clifton is a big fan of yours, Miranda.
Miranda: Cool. Thank you.
Graham: And has noticed that you’ve done a lot of period, costume things, roles. Why is that? Do you enjoy it more than doing more modern things?
Miranda: Not necessarily. But I think, for instance, the BBC does that stuff terribly well and if you’re gonna do it, do it, you know, with the BBC. Do it well. I love getting into a different time. I love imagining what the constraints were or the freedoms were of different times, including what you’re wearing. You know, so corsets. Sometimes it’s very nice to be in a corset. I’m sure you know.
Graham: Yes.
Miranda: Other times, you just don’t wanna see one ever again. But I like variety.
Graham: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ron in Colchester says to Steve — this is quite hard this one.
Steve: Oh, god.
Graham: “I was sad to hear you were leaving Benidorm, which is one of my favourite shows. Why and how have you come to that decision?” Don’t tell us. If it’s private, don’t bother with it.
Steve: No, no, no. Just done it seven years, had an absolute ball doing it, and it… Each filming series takes 13 weeks and that’s a long time to be away from home.
Graham: It’s also a long time to be in Benidorm!
Steve: It’s a long time to be in Benidorm! If I’d carried on, I wouldn’t have been able to do something like Mapp and Lucia, for example, because the two would have clashed. I’m just looking to do different stuff now, but it’s not for any other reason than just time.
Graham: Okay. But it must be difficult being stuck in Benidorm for 13 weeks.
Steve: Yeah but we stayed just outside Benidorm in a place called Albir and you would not believe the difference. It’s the sort of whitewashed buildings, cobbled streets. It’s like the sort of Spanish version of Tilling. It’s absolutely beautiful.
Graham: Nice. I like that you’ve brought it back there, you’ve brought it back.
Steve: Yeah!
Graham: Mapp and Lucia, BBC1.
Laughter.
Graham: Five past nine. Is this true? Sally in Walsall says that Miranda Richardson turned down the role Glenn Close made famous in Fatal—
Miranda: Oh for god’s sake!
Graham: Is that true?
Miranda: Oh, this is old news!
Graham: Oh, well, I never knew it. It's news to me!
Miranda: I can’t even remember now. It’s been coming back at me for so long I’ll say it’s true. But if I did, probably several million other people— No, not million. But several other people probably did too. I didn’t like the script, I have to say.
Graham: Okay, fair enough.
Miranda. Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Graham: Fair enough. While we’re at it, while we’re going over old news…
Miranda: Yeah.
Graham: Just very quickly, Tony in Scunthorpe wants to know, Dance with a Stranger, why isn’t it out on DVD? Because you should know these things.
Miranda: I don’t know these things! I agree. I’m going to, I'm going to… I don’t know what I’m going to do, why I oughta! Beat someone up about that.
Graham: We’d love it, because I went to Central and we used to love going to that pub, you know the pub where she did him in.
Miranda: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Graham: And we would do re-enactments.
Miranda: Oh, god almighty!
Steve: Were you Rupert Everett or were you Miranda?
Graham: No, what we would do was… Didn’t she see him drinking in the pub?
Miranda: Yeah.
Graham: But there’s kind of frosted glass.
Miranda: Yes. Really spooky.
Graham: So we would do it kind of sitting inside going, could you tell who that was? Could you tell?
Miranda: It was probably his braying voice.
Graham: Er, George in Leeds. “I still miss The League of Gentlemen. Do you think you guys will ever get back together for more shows or a film?” Monty Python, you know, they’ve come back.
Steve: They have come back. Er, I think we will. You know, we’re not gonna be sort of, er, put a time on it, but it will soon be twenty years since we started, so that feels…
Graham: Really?
Miranda: I can’t believe it. That’s scary.
Steve: Yeah.
Graham: That’s incredible, isn’t it?
Steve: Yep, absolutely. Well, our first Edinburgh show was 1996 and our first live show ever was 1995.
Graham: Wow. And of course, Mark Gatiss, he shows up.
Steve: He’s in Mapp and Lucia. You know, both Mark and I were great fans. It’s one of the first things that bonded us together was when he came into my room at Bretton Hall and he went, “Ooh, Mapp and Lucia!” And saw all of the books on the shelf. We just pinched ourselves that we were there sort of 20-odd years later in Rye.
Graham: Yeah, and that’s what I think makes it really special, that you are in the actual places. It’s extraordinary.
Steve: Well, he wrote it in the garden where we filmed so I did imagine him sitting there and hopefully not turning in his grave at what I’ve done to his work!
Graham: Toby — he’s ten years old, so be gentle.
Miranda: Oh. Yes.
Graham: You’ve appeared in two of Toby’s favourite films.
Miranda: Oh, cool.
Graham: Harry Potter and The Muppets. Which was the most fun
Miranda: Oh, The Muppets. Definitely.
Graham: Really?
Miranda: The Muppets, yeah. Hanging out of a window, German washerwoman, you know. Playing with Kermit. Can I say that?
Graham: Yes, I think you can, yeah.
Miranda: Playing with Kermit, yes, who was charming. And I only had one line really which was, “Evilen Froggen,” which I decided would be my new stage name.
Laughter.
Steve: Do you ever meet the, dare I say, puppeteers?
Miranda: Yeah!
Steve: You do meet them? You are allowed to meet them?
Miranda: Yes! They’re heaven.
Graham: So can you look down and talk to a person?
Miranda: Well, kind of, but you are talking to Kermit. You just negate the person. You don’t see the person.
Graham: So you just look into the ping pong balls?
Miranda: Yes, the eyes of Kermit. Yes, it’s a bit scary when he’s sort of on a stick resting.
Graham: Er, Miriam from Watford just wants to know, “I still haven’t forgiven ITV for cancelling Whitechapel. It was superb and I feel that we, the audience, was robbed. Is there any way we might get to know what was really going on in London?” Well, they did explain it at the end, didn’t they?
Steve: They kind of did. I mean, the writers were angling for another series so there’s always that little sort of unexplained thing. Angela Pleasance…
Graham: It was crazy at the end!
Steve: It was mental, wasn’t it?
Graham: Yeah, really.
Steve: It did beg another, at least a special to finish it off. I don’t know if they ever will, but we had fun making it.
Graham: Oh, there you go. That’ll be that then.
Steve: Yeah, sorry. No more League of Gentlemen, no more Benidorm, no more Whitechapel, but you’ve got Mapp and Lucia at five past nine!
Graham: Yeah, five past nine! BBC1, December the 29th, 30th and 31st, one of them at least starts at five past nine.
Steve: Yes.
Graham: It’s probably best to tune in at nine. You'll see, it’ll be another BBC1 treat, you’ll catch the tail end of it.
Steve: Yeah.
Graham: Boys, girls, thank you so much for coming in to see us. Merry Christmas and all those things.
When I was a kid, my babysitter taped the Merlin 1998 mini series. Despite my love of dinosaurs, this was the acting debut of Sam Neill in my life. I wore out those two VHS tapes. I fell in love with the characters. The makeup inspired my future SFX work. It is a tour de force by Sam Neill - his grounded performance tied together and introduced brilliant cast of other actors I came to love in other films & series from my childhood - Miranda Richardson (Phantom of the Opera), Isabella Rossellini (The Imposters), Martin Short & Helena Bonham Carter (Alice in Wonderland)…
While there are so many brilliant lines and moments, the last 7 minutes of the series always stuck with me. I encourage you to watch the whole series so it lands the appropriate punch, but for those also feeling nostalgic:
Sone of my favorite lines in the whole show are here (vague spoilers below for anyone who doesn’t want to be):
“And be forgotten.”
“I was trying to smile, but it was the smile of desolation. Inside, I felt only the pity and the terror and the waste of it all. Everyone I ever loved, and who ever loved me - all gone...all gone down.”
“Well, I mean, there will always be a need for the perfect gentleman's gentleman. And I was and always will be one of the best, you see.”
