#raven lb

[dilf-in-peril]

Notes on the first Raven ROH shoot; or things Raven said about wrestling:

in wrestling you need to be hated or loved, not disliked or liked

a good babyface needs to be able to sell to get sympathy and have a fiery comeback and that's all they need to do

a wrestling match is like edging as you're jerking off, you have to build to the cumshot and not come too early and get a lame orgasm or too late and ruin the whole thing too

if you're a babyface and you don't sell all the way because you want to "stay strong" you're doing it wrong, you gotta hit rock bottom and bleed and drool and puke all over the mat so the comeback looks really impressive

wrestling is not an athletic competition it's a drama. it's a drama. say it again: it's a drama.

wrestling is different from other sport because it's inter-emotional. the fans cheering actually have an influence on the match and they feed their energy into the babyface.

unless you're doing a superman comeback (hulk hogan, ultimate warrior) don't forget to sell during your comeback or you destroy all the selling work you did before and also piss Raven off specifically (and me too)

if you win the match and you forget to sell during the celebration you piss Raven off and me too

after a match you should always be out of breath, doesn't matter if it's a shoot or you're actually fine. you need to be sucking wind by the five minute mark.

"but I'm not actually winded!" — it's a WORK!

if you get really hurt in a match and you don't sell the injury you pretty much need to be put down like a dog

working is what you do between the moves, and what you come up with on the fly

because of everyone trying to be Shawn Michaels but only doing the flips wrestling today (2005) is athletically at a different level but psychology wise it's never been worse [oh, honey, if you knew]. Which sucks but at least it's not the boring lazy matches of the early 80s.

no one in the business now knows how to work, they only know how to perform, and it's only going to get worse because kids these days learn from those guys who don't know how to work so they don't know how to work and eventually no one's left to teach them how to work

don't be too strong in your hope spot or you ruin all the heat - unless you're super over with the crowd and they are chanting your name so loud because you kind of have to give as much as they give you because it's an inter-emotional experience

working used to be making things that don't hurt look like they do hurt so you don't actually have to hurt each other and nowadays (2005) people do hurt each other but make it look like it doesn't hurt. never before have wrestlers taken more bumps and hurt themselves more and yet they're acting like it hurts less than ever before.

japanese strong style isn't "working" because they just shoot hurt each other (compare the punk shoot interview where he says raven told him to stop chopping him cause it hurts)

cruiserweight high flyers who don't sell belong to the mid card while the top of the card belongs to guys like joe and punk

wrestling is the greatest art form in the world. if it's done right there's nothing better and when this is done poorly there's nothing more unbearable to watch; except for when it's so bad it's good

[dilf-in-peril]

"The two most important skills [as a babyface] are sympathy and fire, which means you have to be able to sell to have sympathy and you have to be able to make a fiery comeback because that's what the match is built for. A match is built like a pyramid, and you build to the crescendo, and the crescendo is the comeback. And there's the analogy: it's like jerking off. You jerk off until you're just about to come but then you stop and you hold it back. And then you jerk off a little more until you're just about to come and you hold it back. And you jerk off a little more and when you finally (...) shoot your wad off it's an amazing rush, but if you jerk off and you just blow it right away it's like eh... and if you wait too long then you missed your moment and it just kind of dribbles over the top. (...) There's that perfect peak where you get it just right and you shoot the wad and it hits the roof, blows the girl in the eye (...) or your boyfriend, whatever your persuasion is."

Raven has such a way with words.

[dilf-in-peril]

Notes on the fourth Raven ROH shoot; or things Raven said about wrestling (heel edition):

you don't want to be too funny as a heel because then people don't actually hate you.

punk's walk is so arrogant and annoying, with his chest out and his chin up like he's a star, which is a good quality in a heel.

as a heel you have to show your ass (not literally although the sunset flip into pants pulled down spot is a good spot).

the more loved/hated you are the easier it is to turn because there's so much emotional connection.

when you're a heel and just run through people and kill everyone and kick ass it's hard to be hated because that actually rocks and people love it.

the same is true for when you are too tough as a heel and take a beating with grace and don't back down.

raven initially wanted to be a chicken shit heel because he never considered himself tough compared to the actual tough guys in the business.

back in the old days you could just insult the town and people would get so mad but now they think it's funny.

the rules are so blurred (regarding what it allowed in the ring and what not, like closed fist punches) that it's more difficult to be a heel.

back then you could just act gay to get heel heat but now you got equal rights, which is lovely and all, but it's all not that easy anymore.

"the reason why the gay thing works is because... a lot of people are gay." and they are closeted and scared that they will become gay by contact. that's raven's working theory.

heels aren't as big primadonnas as faces because they know they're going to be humiliated and lose in the end, so he suggests everyone should be a heel first and experience ego death.

the problem is that people want to look cool and not show their asses.

joseph campbell hero's journey mention.

stevie was a great heel because you looked at him you just wanted to punch him in the face and not stop hitting him until he's dead. scotty did, not raven.

raven could not believe samoa joe as a bloodlusting maniac because he's just too nice and got a cute babyface and is a jolly fat man. wonder if raven changed his mind about that eventually.

the heel has to call the match because the tempo is on him and he knows where it's going.

you can do cool moves as a heel but you gotta be cut down and show your ass.

it's not a rest hold if you're working it. more fights end with one guy choking the other out than with fisticuffs. it's NOT a rest hold.

"if you're not fucking with the fans they'll feel left out. they're like children, they need constant attention."

if your babyface is not acting hurt during the hope spot fuck him up some more and even harder.

listen to the crowd. if they already start to cheer while you're trying to bring the face down to the mat and slow it down, you don't slow it down right then and shit all over them cheering, you tell the face to fight back a bit and reward the cheers (before cutting him down again).

babyfaces don't listen to anything you tell them and they're all egomaniacs.

snap your head back when you're selling punches, you lazy piece of shit.

wrestling is about motion, because they can't feel it, they can only see it. that's why long hair is so great.

the comeback is where you (as the one being comebacked on) don't sell so they can get their shit in repeatedly and the crowd gets to see so many bumps.

the silly drunk sell worked in the 80s but people are more discerning now.

[dilf-in-peril]

if you want to see Raven's full ass and back sack, and if you squint maybe even hole, he holds up a photo of just that on secrets of the ring vol. 4.

[dilf-in-peril]

"I tell my babyfaces: stay on the fucking mat (...) I want you to always be selling. If I need you I'm going to fucking pick you up, I'll pull you around, I'll tell you what to do. Listen to me. Let me call the fucking match."

my babyfaces.

[dilf-in-peril]

Notes on the fifth Raven ROH shoot; or things Raven said about wrestling:

if you put everyone over no one gets over.

stevie richards is a menace to society behind the wheel.

he likes punk a lot because punk reminds him of himself: arrogant, doesn't take any advice from anyone, doesn't listen, thinks he knows it all.

punk does too many moves. he wants to be a good worker and have five star matches and not draw money. this is why punk is stranded in ovw forever, and also because they want to punish indie guys. [lol to all of this]

punk has a great character and personality, he has the ability to make people hate him. and that's what is going to make him money, if he learns not to have five star matches.

raven credits himself with teaching punk to stay down and sell.

raven says that dreamer definitely wants him sexually.

he thinks weekly tv should have short matches, tag team matches, six man matches and angles, while the big matches between the stars should only be on the ppv.

facial expressions are so important because they are universal.

when you roll out to the floor to play dead a bit you have to learn to ignore the five guys next to you yelling you to stop being a pussy and get back up.

sell yourself into the positions you need to be in.

if you go non stop with the moves the crowd can't digest what happened, you need to give them that breathing space.

"why would you stop selling?!"

he's not trying to steal the attention from anyone but he does want the attention, he needs the attention. and if the crowd is looking at him and not his opponent that's not his fault really ("get good" basically).

"I want people to say 'I just saw raven get his ass kicked', I don't want them to say "I saw dreamer kick his ass.'"

[dilf-in-peril]

Notes on the third Raven ROH shoot; or things Raven said about wrestling (locker room etiquette edition):

the business changed a lot with guys coming in who weren't trained or paying their dues but in many ways it's a positive because in the old days everyone was a drunk and a drug addict and now a lot of guys don't drink and do drugs at all which from personal experience he thinks is much better. he is btw wearing a cm punk shirt while saying all this.

it's not the office's job to push you, it's your job to get over.

if you're a green guy and come into a locker room you shake hands with everybody but kids these days don't do that anymore. and - this one's special - you're also supposed to interrupt conversations for this.

respect is important because "you're giving them your body", and that's why taking liberties is such a violation too.

he spends an inordinate amount of time talking about the rick steiner vordell walker incident defending steiner's position and talking about how he did not get choked out at all and it's vordell's fault. you can watch the footage of it now if you so desire to compare stories (it's a nothingburger the way all shoot fights are)

kids these days don't have any respect.

kids these days don't ask the vets for advice anymore.

if you're green you gotta drive the vets around. unless it's a rat doing that instead which is even lower down the hierarchy ofc.

it's very important to give up the front seat for your elders.

it's very important to offer your good plane seats to your elders.

raven can't sit still, and not on the mushy roh couch because he has three herniated disks in his back. it's also the adhd (which he's diagnosed with).

when you get ribbed you can't flip out but you also can't no sell it, you have to acknowledge the rib. if it gets out of hand you have to politely tell them to stop (shall we take it outside?) even if it means getting your ass kicked. it's about showing how tough you are that you'd take the beating.

he's convinced that he's the first one ever to have called wrestling an art form.

he doesn't mind putting indie guys over on his bookings but usually if the crowd isn't super smart like the roh crowd (where he put punk over) the crowd actually doesn't like seeing the "stars" (that's raven) lose on that one night on the indies.

raven says punk claimed he was already over before the raven feud (which was supposed to get him over) which he says is preposterous but a story for another day. he gives his cm punk shirt the finger. clearly some strong animosity between the two.

[dilf-in-peril]

"He claims he was already over before [our feud] which is preposterous. *rolls eyes* Yeah, that's why I'm wearing his shirt though. *gives Punk on his shirt the finger* Fuck him. Anyway... but he actually claims that too. He claims that I didn't help to get him to the next level, which is absurd."