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What is the fate of the Chain Reaction sculpture in Santa Monica? Saul Rubin reports.

Saul Rubin

Guitarist Saul Rubin is a “musician’s musician,” not in the sense in which the phrase is often used, as a euphemism for “inaccessible,” but instead because of the respect he has garnered from his peers as a result of his extensive study, and near-encyclopedic knowledge of jazz, classical, and popular music. The interview that follows was conducted a few months ago, following one of his regular performances at Smalls with vocalist Lezlie Harrison.

You were born in New York and went to Hartt School of music at the University of Hartford. Can you tell me a little about the early Hartt days and your relationship with Jackie Maclean?

As a youth of seventeen I had a limited knowledge of jazz; I ‘d listened to blues, and a lot of classical and rock, but when I got to college I was a composition major. I had a unique experience — I was studying as a composition student and having to take all the theory and ear training, orchestration, counterpoint, as well as working on learning jazz, which was very challenging. Jackie was a great representative of the music, and all the people that he brought were phenomenal. He taught a course called “Jazz History for Musicians,” restricted to the Hartt students. The first week of school, Jackie brought in Woody Shaw as a guest artist, and I realized that I was surrounded by the greatest living jazz musicians, and that I was going to a great school even though I wasn’t getting a degree in jazz. In the weeks to follow he brought in Jimmy Heath, Dexter Gordon, Vernel Fournier; a plethora of greats. Paul Jeffrey, who ran the jazz ensemble, would sometimes write an arrangement for that week’s visiting artist of one of their compositions that we’d perform with them. I got a chance to arrange because of Paul — he got me started writing arrangements. Jaki Byard was there once a week, which was wonderful. I studied some electronic music as well. By the time I had graduated, I had my first kid and had moved back to New York.

When I got back here I had a family. I had my second child when I was 24. The scene was really limited in 1980/’81. When I first came back I did not do jazz gigs. I couldn’t afford it. I was in the house band at the NY Hilton, and playing weddings. Then I got into computer animation and I stopped doing weddings because the computer graphics was paying, but then I wasn’t playing enough. I got into production, MIDI, and computers. In 2001 I stopped doing computer graphics as a living and decided to play full-time. I was playing with Victor Jones and Alex Blake. I did that for awhile, but I wasn’t really a full-time professional jazz musician until I rejoined Roy’s band.

Yes, can you tell me about working with Roy Hargrove?

I met Roy a long time ago when we were hanging at jam sessions in New York. We hit it off and have been friends ever since. He had a Big Band for a few years starting in ’96, and when he put it together again he asked me to join and write some arrangements. We played a bunch of my arrangements — one arrangement I wrote was recorded and released: an arrangement of “Every Time We Say Goodbye,” with Roberta Gambarini singing. Over the years I’ve worked with Roy in small groups around New York and toured with the Big Band. Had a lot of fun. Did a nice record with that band, too.

You’ve worked a lot as an accompanist — what do you see as the key to being a great accompanist?

Patience, mostly. And I’ve gotten a lot better at it since I’ve been doing it so much the last couple of years. Patience and selflessness. Also, flexibility. You know, if someone’s wrong, I make them right. I go with them. I’ve also been an accompanist in the sense of engineering a lot of recordings; I’ve recorded a lot of other people. I’m the king of the low-budget jazz recording [laughs].

Who was one of your favorite artists to record?

Ari Roland, he’s done a lot of work with me. Ari hates conventional recording methods. He wants to be “out in the open,” and his attitude really changed the way I think. I feel when people record jazz in isolation booths they lose a connection — it sounds stiff, it sounds sterile, and I can hear it. You just lose a connection. As far as other guys go, I just did a really nice record with Dan Block, he did duets with all different cats.

(mid-interview Saul gets a phonecall from Sonny Rollins — they talk about Calypso, Stevie Wonder, and their recent gig together at the Detroit Jazz Festival)

What is it like working with Sonny?

I just did my first gig with Sonny Rollins. I’m hoping it continues and I’m hoping to make more music with him. I got a call one day and the caller ID said “Theodore Rollins.” And I thought someone was messing with me, but I picked up the phone and heard his voice say, “Saul, I’m listening to your record and I’d really like the opportunity to play with you.” I’m scheduled to do a tour with him in October and November, and another gig in San Francisco next month. It’s very exciting. I feel like if I was to try to get a gig like this through schmoozing or hiring publicists, it wouldn’t happen — I got it through my old teacher, Paul Jeffrey. And I feel like these kinds of connections are much more important than the nonsense of the business.

I’ve never been good at pandering to different political circles. The “hey man, blah blah blah,” with critics and record promoters. The real jazz community is a small community that all do it because they love it. But even then, there’s a lot of negativity because there’s so much competition, and that hurts the music. A lot of people want to think of jazz not as a communal thing, but as their own thing. I don’t think that jazz is about the individual. It’s about the community and the individuals in the community. These days, there’s too much, “Me, me me!” Individuals are straying from what joins us together — a language that we share. Thats how it used to be. It was a small world and cats had to protect one another. I think the balance of tradition and language with innovation makes is integral. I love bebop and I love modern music and I love classical music. I love a lot of different kinds of things, and things that I don’t like, I don’t have a big problem with. For some people, they have to hate everything in order to allow them to love something. I’d like to see more unity amongst the musicians — stop criticizing each other so much. I guess that’s human nature though.

A few years ago you started your own live music venue, Zeb’s. Tell me about some of the programming you’ve done and how you see the space developing.

It’s a performance space and recording studio. I’ve hosted two guitar festivals with some of my favorite guitar players — Peter Bernstein, Bucky Pizzarelli, Joe Cohn, Gene Bertoncini, John Hart, Ron Affif, Ilya Lushtak, etc. Also, I work as an accompanist with a lot of singers, and we host a jazz vocal series. For almost two years, I’ve featured a vocalist every Wednesday, with over 70 vocalists featured. I supplied the trio.

My business associate, Cobi Narita, has been a real advocate for the music for, like, 40 years. She’s been inspirational in that she’s like-minded. She’s been producing concerts and really protecting the music and she’s won countless awards. She’s more interested in the music than in making money. I’m looking forward to more recording and writing projects in the years to come. I’d like to continue producing and writing music. and it would be nice to be touring with world-class musicians. That’s really special. I think that eventually I would probably move away from being an engineer to just be playing. I get more joy out of playing than recording other people’s music. But it’s all good!

#Saul Rubin