Rei Makoto × Matsumoto Koshiro | A cross talk between the two playing “the same role” – all about living in the beautiful fictional world.
Interview published on fujingaho, full translation by @yuzukahibiscus under the cut!
Rei Makoto’s next performance is “Eyes of the Ashura Castle” (hereafter “Ashura”). Matsumoto Koshiro had also performed this work, when he was known by his stage name Ichikawa Somegoro. Here is a cross talk of the two actors, who have a strong passion for the stage, and are always running at a furious pace.
Rei Makoto (hereafter “R”): Thank you for coming today. You must be busy during the Kabuki-za performances.
Matsumoto Koshiro (hereafter “M”): Takarazuka Revue (hereafter “Takarazuka”) performers are busy too. Singing and dancing, all while being a Top Star. Is that what you do in a year?
R: It’s rehearsals and performances, rehearsals and performances. But I’ve heard that you have short periods of rehearsals at Kabuki-za.
M: Generally, it’s a few days. We had around a month to rehearse for “The Demon Residing in the Oboro Forest” (hereafter “Oboro Forest”) (tentative translation, no official title) but time was still tight. These are such intense rehearsal stories, but there’s nothing we can do (he smiles).
R: Gekidan ☆ Shinkansen (hereafter “Shinkansen”) performances are especially hard.
M: You’re performing “Ashura” now, aren’t you? Everyone around me was talking a lot about it. I performed this work twice, and to learn that Takarazuka was performing it didn’t seem merely as ‘other people’s business’, but rather I was really glad to see how much this performance has grown to be.
R: This was the first collaboration between Takarazuka and Shinkansen. I’ve always loved Shinkansen stage performances, and specifically I’ve even watched the DVDs of all your works. I have all of the versions of “Seven Souls of the Skull Castle” (hereafter “Skull Castle”) lined up in my place, but the DVD for your starring work as Somegoro in “Aodokuro” is my all-time favourite - I’ve rewatched it too much and the covers are almost in ruins!
M: That’s impressive (he smiles).
R: After watching Amami Yuki’s theatre version and Miyazawa Rie’s film version of “Ashura”, I was quite anxious, thinking if everything’s going to be alright now that I’m playing the leading role. This show requires great physicality and I should execute the coolness of the role, so I thought, can I do this? That’s why I’ve come today to learn everything from you (she bows slightly).
M: The first Shinkansen performance I watched was “Skull Castle”, then I watched “Ashura” in 2000. Then from when I was given the opportunity of performing “Skull Castle” till now, it’s moving to think how many shows I’ve been fortunate to be involved in.
R: So you thought the same back then as well.
M: When I was granted the opportunity to perform in the “Inoue Kabuki” series (T/N = Inoue Hidenori is the head and director of Gekidan Shinkansen), I knew that if I were to make myself known as a Kabuki actor, but didn’t appear cool with the gestures and movements, then I’d be a disappointment, something I couldn’t allow to happen.
R: It was impressive how you delivered a unique performance interweaving the Kabuki elements. I can’t wait to imagine how the Takarazuka version will turn out to be.
M: It’ll be great to see “Ashura” with the Takarazuka expertise. “Kabuki NEXT” stages works from Shinkansen as part of its Kabuki performances, and they’re performing two works: “Aterui” and “Oboro Forest”. The most distinctive feature of these works is the female role played by Kabuki actors (onnagata). Onnagata play a significant part in storytelling. It’s also interesting when onnagata are playing “non-human roles”.
R: That’s similar to male roles played by Takarazuka actresses (otokoyaku) because they only become true characters on stage. Onnagata and otokoyaku are contrasting, but it’ll be great to show the best of both roles.
M: Whether it’s onnagata or otokoyaku, they are fictional characters that don’t exist save when they are on stage. That’s the unique charm of these roles.
R: While wanting to showcase this charm, one of the difficulties is that all our actresses have to perform this Shinkansen work which demands great physicality. It’ll be a great challenge to see how much we can overcome and how far we can achieve.
M: The protagonist Wakuraba Izumo in “Ashura” was really like superman to me. The performance was already tough, so I had thought, “Does he really have to be this strong? Should I just kill him today already?” But anyway, that was how I pulled through.
R: The swordfighting scenes and how the actors recited the lines were all so cool. How do you keep up the motivation?
M: It was almost like experiencing a “runner’s high”.
R: Wow…
M: Inoue gave us specific directions like “You should say this when you walk, when you run” but if you think you only have to do those movements, and that will be enough for the audience to be in awe when you appear on stage, you already lost, because that is the bare minimum. If you want people to enjoy more, to think that’s interesting and it’s cool, then you’ll have to work even harder, right? It’s tough, but you have to keep going. Then, that’ll be about 3 hours and 30 minutes.
R: Hearing that alone is mind-boggling. But I find myself quite similar to you. I held a concert at Budokan before, and because we wanted to entertain the audience, we included everything we could in the setlist no matter how hard it got. At some point, I also thought this setlist was impossible to perform, but I didn’t want to compromise anything that I was already set on performing. That’s why I decided that these songs were what I’d perform in the following concert days.
M: Yeah, that seems similar. It’s tough, but just like every story, “Ashura” has an ending to its own. You’ll feel that sense of achievement after each performance and then the next day, you perform again.
R: For our performances, since we still have a show later, the play was compressed to 1 hour and half, and the change made me nervous again.
M: It’s like you have to rush through all the lines quickly. Do you even sing, or is it more like scatting? (he laughs).
R: It’s a whole battle (she laughs). But I was surprised by how fast you talk too, yet never get tongue tied. You’re still able to balance mischief and appeal… I’d like to ask what you prioritise the most in creating your role?
M: I think the most important thing is charging straight ahead. You have to keep running. Whatever hiccups come by, I believe that I’ll reach my destination ultimately. Accumulated stage experience becomes an encouragement for me every day.
R: I see. Since this is my graduation performance, what you say will be relevant. When I was filming for the poster of this performance, the photographer mentioned specifically that “I want to see Izumo’s sexiness appeal”. I already felt how difficult it was standing to be as cool as possible while wearing the kinagashi.
M: In order to look sexy, one of my inspirations was the actor Arata Furuta. He looks good even when there were some places he intended not to have done. But I still don't think I've managed to do that... I find it difficult to look good wearing the kinagashi too, so you’re fine (he smiles).
There’s a “beauty” to kabuki for any performances and even for villains
R: Now I feel a bit more relieved, but still somewhat unsure (she smiles). I’ve had the opportunity to take on many "Takarazuka firsts," including this one. You’ve also created many new performances. So what’s the most important thing you want to protect and retain?
M: I think there’s a beauty of Kabuki in any performance. This is what the seniors taught me. Take intonation. Even if you’re shouting, you have to make it sound. I hope that the audience can be relieved from their pressure after watching our performances, because Kabuki brings people into a world different from reality.
R: That’s similarly to what we do in Takarazuka. Back then, I went to a middle school in Ginza, so Kabuki-za seemed right next to me. I still see Kabuki-za as a pride of Japan. So I’m glad that I’m in the world of Takarazuka, which serves as a contrasting opposite to it.
M: I think the bad guys have something beautiful within them too. You can’t show only their bad side. So when playing bad people or poorer people, I ask: what’s the beauty in them?
R: I know what you mean. I also like playing villain roles. Ever since I was a child, I’ve found myself more drawn to the antagonists than the protagonists, loving the villains more than the princesses.
M: I like the “Baikinman” type of villain.
R: Yeah, like that (she laughs). Top Stars play mostly the righteous protagonists, but I’ve also played some ‘dirty’ antiheroes in the past. I’ve done such archetypes quite a lot.
M: I think that’s what makes them human. It’s a unique experience in the fictional world to play a role that could only be alive on stage. It’s actually more interesting to play villains than the leading role. By the way, even though I’ve never achieved the dream of carrying large feathers, I had seen the scenery of the stage when I appeared on a grand staircase from above.
R: Really? Was that during a Kabuki performance?
M: Yes. It was during the performance titled “Ooatari Fushimi no Tomikuji”. It’s a fascinating sight to oversee everything.
R: I see. What do you think about our feathers?
M: Yes. I was really amazed when I saw how the Top Stars carry the features and actually walk across the silver bridge. I’m not sure if this was a “tradition” or a “rule”, but I just find it so awesome. It was a speechless moment. So rather than thinking of how I’d look carrying the feathers, I’d have to watch your performances.
R: I am troubled over the timing, whether it’s better if you should watch it earlier so I could ask you for advice, or if I should invite you when I’m at my best, but please come to watch our performances.
