Discussion #3 - The Sorting of Hermione Granger
Lizzie:
Re-sorting in Harry Potter. [There's been some interesting discussion in this on tumblr.] First of all: Hermione. IMO, there's no way she really belongs in Gryffindor. I'd put her in Ravenclaw and maybe even Slytherin. GO.
Emma:
First off, I would say she's not underhanded or ambitious enough to be in Slytherin. That is to say, she's going to be more confrontational and less slit-your-tires-in-the-middle-of-the-night (which is /more/ how I see Slytherins dealing with things); she is ahead intelligence-wise and likes to be better than everyone else, but I don't know if "ambitious" is really the right description. Not to say she /couldn't/ be in Slytherin, but I just don't see it over another house, really. Second off, then. Entire plot and function of the Harry Potter universe aside, I definitely would have put her in Ravenclaw. I would say her cleverness and thirst for learning and devouring of all things knowledge-related /outweigh/ her (present) Gryffindor qualities. Basically, she's more Ravenclaw than anything else, in my opinion. As far as "no way she really belongs in Gryffindor," I wouldn't totally disagree with that, but I kinda would. :P She is certainly /more/ of a Ravenclaw, but she IS incredibly brave and whatnot. (What else is a Gryffindor, actually? rather loyal? but that's Hufflepuff too.....) Anyway, I would give her Ravenclaw/Gryffindor/Slytherin/Hufflepuff. Would also like to point out the possibility that she, like Harry, requested Gryffindor. #shrug
Lizzie:
Interesting, because I think of Hermione as being very ambitious and definitely willing to be underhanded/sly to help her ambition along. Admittedly, she's less selfish with her ambition than one might think of a Slytherin being--since she uses her smarts to help out Harry and Ron with their shenanigans--but we've definitely seen her being willing to break the rules when it suits her or when she thinks it's necessary. Which sounds very Slytherin to me. A few examples of rule-breaking and/or sneaky behavior to achieve her ends: The Polyjuice Potion plot, the Time-Turner (and yeah, she got permission, but she went behind everyone else's back--which shows how she IS ambitious to serve her own ends, not just her friends), using Confunding to get Ron on the quidditch team (which is incredibly insulting to him and really ticks me off, fyi), the Sneak curse that ended up on Marietta Edgecombe (note that this was definitely more malicious than it needed to be), blackmailing Rita Skeeter, and lying to Umbridge to get her into the Forbidden Forest. I think all these show that she is definitely more of the slit-your-tires than the confrontational type...her brand of dealing with issues is very non-confrontational and quite sneaky. Most of the time, she's the one dragging Harry and Ron away from a fight--the slap in third year being a significant exception. I don't think I even need to argue that she would have fit into Ravenclaw--we pretty much agree on that. :) Hermione IS brave, of course, but there's no rule that Slytherins can't be brave. And I think that Hermione's particular brand of bravery is more Slytherin than Gryffindor. She isn't impulsive or reckless. She's really quite calculating. I think that what I like the most when I think of putting Hermione in Slytherin is that it expands or redefines what a Slytherin is. Yes, you CAN fit all the characteristics without being a Junior Death Eater, thank you very much. And yeah, the Sorting Hat takes your choice into account, blah blah blah. Colin Creevey might have wanted into Slytherin, but let's be honest. Never woulda happened. *"come at me bro" arms*
Emma:
I'm sleepy. But I will say: I think Hermione would definitely be the Slytherin of the three, but I still just really don't see her as an actual Slytherin. Maybe it's because she developed in/as a Gryffindor the way she did, but I just can't quite see it actually happening. (She's also a Muggle-born, whether you like it or not, which means /if/ she had been in Slytherin (and that's a BIG if), she would have gotten a lot of grief from her fellow Slytherins, no lie.) Your examples are good, certainly, but I always saw those things as, idk, maybe /more/ Slytherin, but not a dominant part of her actual personality. Honestly, that could just be me. Come on, you know I got me some mad Slytherin love. Don't even pull that "don't have to be a Junior Death Eater" crap with me. :P (Although as far as that paragraph goes, I don't necessarily oppose your idea there, but I don't know that redefining what it means to be a [house] is the point of Sorting. *cringe* Just saying.) And what I mean by the Sorting Hat considering your preference: Because Hermione really can fit in Gryffindor (I will stand by that one), if that's what she wanted (over, I would say maybe Ravenclaw. Don't think the Sorting Hat would put her in Slytherin, I really don't). #kanyeshrug
Lizzie:
I love your use of slashies for italics. *steals for future use* I'm still not seeing a lot of convincing evidence that Hermione "belongs" in Gryffindor. I guess she /fits/ in Gryffindor because it's such a loose definition, but to me, she /belongs/ in Ravenclaw and could have been a Slytherin. I can't argue with the Muggle-born thing, but hey, it would have been a really interesting twist. [Sorry to throw the Junior Death Eater line at you. This is as close as I'll ever get to a rap battle and it makes me feel sassy. :P] "Redefining what it means to be a house" was poor word choice on my part. What I was trying to get at was /expanding the definition we're given./ What does it mean to be cunning and ambitious? Those are adjectives that DO NOT have to be negative or sinister. Hermione IS ambitious; she is driven to achieve her own personal goals and to defeat (pardon the trope) the Forces of Evil. [Harry, for example, was never that driven--he had a lot of (understandable) angst about being the chosen one, and he pretty much sat on his hands for a month in GoF until Cedric told him to take a bath with the egg. Which is why I honestly don't feel like Harry could have fit into Slytherin, despite the claims otherwise. /irrelevant rabbit trail] Hermione is also cunning. She follows the rules until she feels it's necessary to break them. She is the brains of the trio because the sneaky plans are always her idea. (See previous post for list.) She's willing to lie and hex and blackmail to work things out for what she believes is right--the definition of Slytherin.
Emma:
Well, I agree with you there, I really don't think Gryffindor's her best fit. I say that's Ravenclaw. :) And like I said, not that she /couldn't/ have been a Slytherin, I just don't see it over Ravenclaw at all, so to me it's almost irrelevant. (Although you're right, a twist. But then that REALLY screws with the entire HP universe. lol. [haha, rap battle. YES. we should have one of those. Don't kid. You're always sassy.] Okay yeah, I see that a little bit. Like I said, I just don't see it enough to be able to say "Oh, yeah, Hermione, Slytherin, totally." She's just SO Ravenclaw for me. [Haha, NICE tangent. I never saw Harry in Slytherin either. Like I said, of the three, definitely Hermione. I really really really really really (did I mention REALLY) want Al to have been in Slytherin though. I realize that's even more rabbit-traily and irrelevant, but I want it SO DARN BAD.] This is true. I guess because I see me as more Slytherin but not much like Hermione, it's hard to reconcile those. But again, I see your point. Can we just agree that she belongs in Ravenclaw? :P
Lizzie:
This was a good one! [CONSENSUS REACHED]