#the goth discourse

[gothiccharmschool]

Auntie Jill, how do you feel about the insinuation that goth poc should look into skin lightening routines to be taken seriously as part of goth culture?

That it’s wrong, and it makes me furious. NO ONE has to lighten their skin to be part of the goth subculture. Here’s the Gothic Charm School post about it:

Gothic Charm School

I’m continually appalled that this nonsense is STILL a thing in goth. There are no requirements in goth about skin color, age, body type, gender, sexuality, and anyone who claims otherwise is wrong and deluded.

[gothiccharmschool]

re: youtube goth drama: ppl are criticizing some more popular youtube goths because they post a lot of fashion hauls without explicitly stating that these hauls were sent to them by the brands in question and/or that the content is sponsored, saying that it's tragic b/c younger goths think they have to wear expensive brand-name stuff, it's really about the music, etc. Said youtubers are responding in long-winded videos to defend themselves. Usual internet drama.

Ah-ha. I have Very Serious Cranky Eldergoth opinions about this, actually:

If a brand sends someone something and they review it online or even make a “whee, stuff!” video, IT NEEDS TO BE SAID THAT THE BRAND SENT THOSE THINGS. 

... Doing that is a legal requirement in the U.S. That’s why I’m always very clear about stuff sent to me for review vs. stuff I bought.

If someone’s content is sponsored, they NEED TO SAY THAT.

Because I do feel that it’s irresponsible to promote an image of goth fashion as it being all about brand names. It’s great that there are more “off the rack” goth options out there, because not everyone has the time/energy/interest to DIY clothes. But promoting a flawless head-to-toe brand look as the way to be goth, and not disclosing that the items were sent, not purchased? Nope, not okay.

As for the Goth Is All About The Music discourse: that discussion (well, argument) has been going on since the goth subculture coalesced out of the graveyard fog. I, obviously, am firmly on the side of Goth Is About More Than The Music. Many people disagree with me, and that’s fine. They are entitled to their opinions.

(SWEET SAINTED BELA LUGOSI, PEOPLE NEED TO SAY IF SOMETHING WAS SENT TO THEM FOR PROMOTION AND REVIEW! GRRRRR!)

[gothiccharmschool]

dreadbeasts said: Worth noting - the main two people being criticized are not US citizens, nor are they based in the US, so they are not beholden to US law unless Youtube makes them be.

Fair enough, but I personally still think it’s irresponsible of them for not saying when content is sponsored or the merchandise was sent to them gratis. 

Again, this is my own Cranky Eldergoth Opinion. I know that others don’t agree, and that’s fine.

[gothiccharmschool]

What are your thoughts on recent goth YouTube drama? Im seeing a lot of goth's making videos about it, and personally I have a lot of mixed feelings about it.

The what now? As I am not really part of the Goth YouTube Scene (as of yet), I have no idea what’s going on. Can someone give me a summary, instead of directing me to videos that will almost certainly make me grind my fangs and give me a headache?

[gothiccharmschool]

As an eldergoth, what's your opinion on the recent topic going around YouTube on whether or not you can be goth or not if you don't like the music? There seems to be a mix of "yes, goth is more than music!" and "no, goth is ALL music.", and even both "Maybe, just know the history." Have you ever seen something like this in the past when you were a younger goth?

Of course I saw that sort of thing when I was a younger goth. People drawing arbitrary lines in the black sand and shouting at each other from both sides: “You’re not a real goth if you don’t know all of the bands and have the limited edition bat-shaped vinyl release of “Kiss Kiss Bang Bang” by Specimen!” vs. “You’re not a real goth unless you are constantly clad in fishnets, black lace, and velvet, with your hair sky-high and perfect swirly eyeliner!”

For the record, both sides are absolutely wrong. The goth subculture is a combination of the music and the fashion, and ALSO includes the books, art, and movies that provided the loamy cemetery soil for the modern goth subculture to claw its way out from.

You don’t have to like all the music. You don’t have to embrace the every aspect of the fashion. But YES, please know at least a little bit about where the whole thing came from.

Finally, if any elitist gatekeepers try to tell you otherwise, laugh at them and tell them that your Auntie Jilli and the Eldergoth Cabal (which doesn’t exist) says they’re wrong. Then ignore them forevermore.

[gothiccharmschool]

lorieninksong said, about my tag of “THE VICTORIAN GOTHS ARE TAKING TOP HATS BACK”: 

And goodness Jillian, no one is taking anyone’s top-hats, bustle cages, etc. there’s more than enough for all.

You’re right, there is more than enough for all! :D 

But I have been on the receiving end of comments (from people in the steampunk community, no less!), that top hats are inherently steampunk, or that they think it’s great how I incorporated steampunk elements into my goth wardrobe (when I’m dressed in all black and wearing giant witchy jewelry). Most steampunk folks are wonderful and great people! But as in any community, there are people who are not.

(There are also everyday folks who say, “Steampunk?” at my usual outfits, but that doesn’t really bother me, as steampunk has (had?) gotten more mainstream press attention recently than Victorian goth.)

[gothiccharmschool]

Do you ever get crap from other goths for liking My Chemical Romance? That happens to me a lot and I wanted to know if it happened to you. Also, when you were younger, did you ever have non-goth friends who made fun of you and called you a satanist? That also happens to me.

I do occasionally get crap from other goths for my love of MCR and my fondness for those bandom bands. I don’t care. Not only does no one listen to exclusively one genre of music (if they say they do, they’re lying), but I also hold that if MCR hadn’t become the hit juggernaut that they did, they would have been considered on the horror-punk spectrum of goth. Look, not only did they start out with the idea of “What if Morrissey had joined the Misfits?”, but the lyrics! Gerard Way has strong roots in the goth subculture, and has admitted as such in interviews. Also, their first single ever was “Vampires Will Never Hurt You”. 

Aaaaand to really make my point, you all have seen the interview with Peter Murphy and Gerard Way, right? (It’s adorable, go watch it.)

Non-goth friends calling me a Satanist? No, that never happened. They would call me a witch (which is true), but I never got hit with the Satanist label. 

[gothiccharmschool]

I've seen that a lot of alternatives are bringing up how they style and make all their clothing. Sewing, tearing, you get the idea. Now there are select stores that actually sell goth clothing that looks really nice and isn't cheap or cliché. But buying it is frowned upon! I know people will say it's because back in their day THEY had to make all their clothes, etc. But is it valid for people to think negatively of these garments and people who wear them? Should I feel bad for buying it? Thanks

While I feel that making your clothing or customizing things you buy is always a good idea, it is NOT required. People should not think negatively or look down on people who buy pre-made gothwear, and you shouldn’t feel bad for buying it!

Not everyone has the time, inclination, or skill to make their own things or customize them. Hell, my sewing skills are limited to making skirts, sewing on buttons, and altering some pre-made things. Anything more complex than that, and I pay @kambriel or the Infamous Bluejay to make it for me.

To repeat the message: Buying pre-made or off-the-rack alternative clothing is okay, and anyone who says otherwise is being an elitist gatekeeper.