Ask Sorel and Corrigan

Hello, we are Dr. Corrigan and Healer Sorel, the Human-Vulcan medical team responsible for bring Spock into existence. Got a question or few?

[asksorelcorrigan]

{{ Hey there! I just want to send over huge blog appreciation. Your blog is unique, important, and very well-kept and maintained. I *love* that you're delving so biologically into Spock's being. It's a invaluable contribution to the fandom. Keep up the good work!

Thank you so much! I have always loved biology and Vulcans (both their biology and culture) fascinated me so much so it seemed a natural fit. I’m just glad that others enjoy it too! 

Also tbh the reason it’s so organized is because I only really do stuff on this blog when I have a question to answer or a science rant to keyboard smash into being. My other blogs are nowhere near as well-kept! Haha!

[asksorelcorrigan]

If Spock has a Human mother and a Vulcan father, why does he look fully Vulcan instead of more half and half?

The concept that is relevant here is the difference between genotype and phenotype. An individual’s genotype is their genetic constitution however their phenotype is the set of characteristics that are expressed and observed. 

Right, you can’t just smash some genes together from two different species and expect it to work out fine. The species involved in this combination are both diploid so they need a set from the mother and a set from the father in the form of egg and sperm. But because they’re two different species, they don’t necessarily ‘match up’. Since the genetic code is the set of instructions for the body, you’d have one set trying to put the heart in different places and it just won’t make anything that will survive without intervention. That’s where we came in.

Daniel and I worked to make sure that when it came to the development of the fetus, it was developing in a clear path towards either Vulcan or Human. This was necessary for any contradiction could result in potentially lethal birth defects. Lady Amanda and Ambassador Sarek agreed that their offspring shall be Vulcan as they intended to live on that planet. It was simply logical for Spock to physically have the characteristics suitably adapted to the conditions of Vulcan if he were to have the best chance of surviving infancy.

In other words, he’s physically Vulcan because we made him that way. It was his only chance at life. You can’t just have a mish-mash of genetics. The body is far too complicated for that to work.

[asksorelcorrigan]

Have a question about the Vulcan culture or biology? Do you enjoy the occasional foray into non-fictional science? Then you might want to check out a little sideblog that is (very loosely) a character ask blog for Healer Sorel and Dr. Corrigan, the medical professionals responsible for bringing Spock into being.

asksorelcorrigan

[asksorelcorrigan]

A summary of the origins of Vulcan and Romulan philosophy

Vulcan society: THIS IS CIVIL WAR. AGAIN.

Surak: Can we stop killing each other? Geez guys get a grip. Have some self-control for once. Let's think about this logically, ok? No need to get over emotional.

Vulcan society: Yeah you're right we'll stop fighting

Surak: Thank y-

Vulcan society: and purge all of our emotions

Surak: What that's not-

Vulcan society: time for insanely pure and strictly logical brains

Future ancestors of Romulans: Wow you guys are all nuts we're out of here

[asksorelcorrigan]

Okay so people who actually check this blog may have realized that I have changed my theme. While I was at it, I decided that I want a new icon as it was bothering me that I based it off of the Red Cross rather than the caduceus. My dumb brain also decided that I should play around with the colors.

Fun fact: I know absolutely nothing about color theory.

At first I used basic colors (the grid isn’t in any actual order) but then eventually started desperately pulling from palettes I found online. And everything is now kind of a mess.

Anyway, I’m putting the choice up to you folks. Are there any of these that you think would make a good icon? P is there for you to suggest your own color combo to me. I was just kind of choosing randomly and I know there are people out there who know way more about this or simply like an unlisted combo better. 

So I guess reply to this post or send me an ask or something if you have any preference at all. Thank you in advance to anyone who does, it will help me heaps!

[asksorelcorrigan]

Do you know that the theme you use makes it very hard to read your text? It swallows the first one or two letters of a word. I tried it in a different browser, too, with the same result. So, I assume it's the theme rather than my PC?

It’s kind of weird because while it does the same on my computer, my friends have told me it’s just fine on theirs. I do have a fairly large computer screen so I assume that is the problem. Before the most recent Skype update, I would have that in a small size tile snapped to the right so I can have both Skype and my browser up at the same time. Now that I’ve had issues with Skype doing that, I have had my browser open to full size and that’s when I noticed the text on that theme being wonky. I think the sliver I gave Skype in the past made my browser size the ‘normal’ size so I didn’t see the problem before. In other words, I think it’s the theme when viewed on a not-normal screen size? IDK.

Thanks for bringing it up though because it maybe time to change the theme. Now that I know it’s not just me, I can assume there are more people out there who aren’t seeing it properly either so I should probably just get a new theme altogether.

EDIT: As I need to run a few errands, it will probably take me a while to get a new theme. But I decided that I will start working on it. <3

[asksorelcorrigan]

A Word (Or Few) On the Khan Serum

Ah yes, that little plot element from Star Trek: Into Darkness. It was interesting to be sure, but I have noticed that it is being treated (most likely by the writers as well which makes this doubly aggravating) as a miracle cure-all. I’m not a fan of this in the least because NO medical treatment is such a cure (though I venture to say penicillin is pretty damn close to be honest). So I’m going to address the particular scenes with what I personally think is happening. This is a general headcanon of course to dispel the magic of it and is based mostly on my annoyance at it being used the way it seems to be treated. Please excuse my rambling.

The key factor of Jim being able to make a full recovery is being able to prevent brain damage that would occur from lack of oxygen while doctors treat the radiation and to replace the damaged radiated cells in Kirk’s body with healthy ones. I propose that this happened from the use of stem cells or progenitor cells. Stem cells are undifferentiated that can differentiate into specialized ones as needed. Progenitor cells are very similar except they are already kind of pushed toward the specific differentiation of a target cell and can only differentiate a limited number of times whereas a stem cell can do so indefinitely (sometimes the terms are used synonymously). 

Both stem cells and progenitor cells are already part of the body’s repair system so it’s no stretch to the imagination that they’d be use to... repair the body. In fact, we already have therapy treatments that take advantage of this. Stem cells from bone marrow (a very rich site for adult stem cells) has been used to aid cancer treatment for several decades. This is actually pretty relevant because while it isn’t used to treat the actual cancer, it is used to replace the healthy cells that were accidentally lost during chemotherapy. Kind of sounds exactly what Bones would need to replace the healthy cells that were lost when Kirk got radiated. Bones can’t save all of Jim’s cells from the radiation damage, but it would be a hell of a lot of help if he can replace the ones that he can’t save as it would give Jim a much better chance at survival. 

There are also studies and clinical trials being done to help slow or pause neurodegeneration or helping combat neural cell death (this one is a little tricky because the connections of neurons are very intricate and I imagine that any missed connection can lead to major consequences such as memory gaps or possible mental disorders but I’m not an actual medical professional so don’t take my word on that). Bones really needs this too because there is a time window where one can resuscitate a patient from clinical death and have them recover with little to no brain damage from lack of oxygen to the brain cells. The longer Bones can widen this window, the longer he has to get Jim to a state where he CAN be resuscitated and come out fine. I will say right now that Bones did not play God nor did he commit some atrocity of nature by bringing Jim back. Doctors do this all the time so calm down. Now that I think about it, asking Jim if he was feeling “homicidal, power-mad, despotic” likely also was to gauge if Jim did in fact experience brain damage from the ordeal.

So why do I think it makes sense that Khan has super stem/progenitor cells? Well he’s said to have characteristics that are at the limits of human ability. For the intelligence, there isn’t all that much of a physical drawback that I can think of, but for the physical stuff there is. Exerting one’s body to such extremes like lifting really heavy weights, running faster for longer, all takes a toll on the body like tearing muscles and otherwise damaging the body. This is the reason we can only do such things in short bursts if we train it. If Khan has stem/progenitor cells in a much higher quantity than the average person, that damage can be healed much quicker and allow him to exert himself more and for longer than the average person. Without the ability to repair that damage, he would have collapsed halfway through the film or something. As a side note, he’d also have to eat a hell of a lot of food to have the energy for all of that shit but that is neither here nor there. 

Now, I can’t say this is the same for all the Augments or even any other one. The one true defining characteristic is that their genetic makeup was altered to give them traits better than the average human. Who’s to say they were all altered in the exact same way? The may have made some dude to be amphibious and give him gills and other aquatic features or something. They’re a ragtag bunch of misfits who happened to have a leader who may have been a little mentally imbalanced in the morality department. Never forget that he was kind of a tyrant before he was cryotubed in the first place. Just throwing that out there.

[turndownforspock-deactivated201]

It’s 12:30 am, I’m trying to study for a segment on “women’s renunciation in south asia” for my Religions of India final and all I can think about is Vulcan gender dynamics 

Basically the whole pon farr thing seems like it would really skew things – it seems like Vulcan females are forced to mate with (and therefore likely be impregnated by) Vulcan males regardless of whether that’s something they want to do, because if they don’t, the males will die. Obviously there’s an option of choosing to challenge the arrangement like T’Pring did, but even then she’s still required to marry the victor at his discretion. And, it seemed like choosing the challenge was a very unusual thing for her to do, as if a Vulcan female had not done so for a very, very long time (this may have even been explicitly stated, I don’t remember). So this means that either all of the females before T’Pring were happy with their arrangements (which I doubt), or they consented silently despite not wanting to marry and possibly impregnated because the dude they are betrothed to will die if they don’t allow him to have sex with her. Obviously it’s “logical” to consent to these unions because it is necessary to propagate the species and refusing to do so would result in the males all dying off, but at the same time, it’s just weird to me that the females don’t really get a choice about whether they want to do so.

That said, it makes me wonder if monastic life is one of the few options available to Vulcan females who wish to avoid marriage and children (like Sybok’s mother, who renounced worldly life to become a Master of Gol). I feel like the male Masters would also be the few Vulcans who would be able to conquer plak tow through deep meditation.

[asksorelcorrigan]

I think I’m going to tackle this here. This is a really fun question and I’m glad I have an excuse to word-vomit about it! Put under a read-more for dash brevity.

First and most important thing is that females go through the pon farr cycle as well as evidenced by ENT episode “Bounty”. While in that episode it was induced, it would be impossible for it to be induced in the first place if she didn’t have the biological systems in place for it to occur. This is important in that it demonstrates that both sexes go through the same biological process and is the key to the entire conundrum as presented. Given their shared biological imperative, it can be assumed that had T’Pring gone into pon farr first, Spock as her betrothed would be obligated to return to Vulcan to mate with her. 

Children are bonded when they are seven years old in order to ensure that they have someone to go to when they enter pon farr. It is important to note that logic is what governs modern Vulcan custom in place of emotion. In that light, then it seems perfectly reasonable for this to take place. What would ensure survival? Having someone ready to go, or hoping you find someone you fall in love with in time? It isn’t necessarily the happiest arrangement, but it is the most logical one. I personally assume that the real reason why it was so surprising that T’Pring chose the kal-if-fee is because that by doing so, it seems to imply that she is making an emotional choice in a mate rather than to logically aid a dying Vulcan she is already semi-bonded to (I say ‘semi-bonded’ because there is a connection, but clearly not as strong as a full marriage bond, only enough to compel them to find each other when one of them begins pon farr). Compulsory marriage after that would probably be done to ensure that the mating pair is more permanent. Even still, I’d imagine that divorce is possible, but rarer considering that marriage in the first place requires a bond that will allow them to tap into each other’s thoughts. But it has been demonstrated that marriages can be ended by annulment, divorce or death of a partner and all three would require the individuals to find a new partner before their next pon farr. Sarek was known to have been married to Sybok’s mother before she chose a monastic life that ended their marriage.

After looking through the transcript of “Amok Time”, I found only a few instances of gendered practices for the koon-ut-kal-if-fee. First, when Spock says “By tradition, the male is accompanied by his closest friends.” This doesn’t seem to really involve the ceremony itself, but we simply are not permitted the chance to know if the male’s friends play a role in the ceremony if it would go unchallenged. 

The second instance is more relevant as T’Pau says “Here begins the act of combat for possession of the woman, T'Pring. As it was at the time of the beginning, so it is now. Bring forth the lirpa.” There are a few different possible interpretations that are equally valid. I choose to interpret this as a case of antiquated language and translation between the native Vulcan language into Common by the universal translators. For example “possession” could simply apply to the fact that the male combatants are fighting over the right to marry the female. I make the inference that for Vulcans, a marriage is like owning the other person. This isn’t exclusively a male owning a female as earlier Spock says “It is undignified for a woman to play servant to a man who is not hers.“ This to me presents this dual ownership as it gives the image of the woman being ‘owned’ but she also ‘owns’ the man.

As far as the monastic life as an escape from domesticity, that would indeed be a valid reason for becoming a priest or priestess, but that would apply equally to both males and females and would only be one of many possible reasons to choose that life. It is impossible to know what exactly led Sybok’s mother to become a priestess so it is impossible to make much comment on it. But it is important to note that, yes, those who choose this life would be able to use meditation to be able to overcome this biological imperative.

[screaming-till-im-numb-deactiva]

*looks at the sky* “yeah but who says all aliens or any at all have gender binaries like ours, or if they even have gender at all! Why do we immedietly assume they have gender roles?”

[thesadchicken]

you are absolutely right. and they actually don’t! here are a few examples of alien species in the Star Trek universe that don’t have gender binaries or gender roles at all:

The Q: They are a bodiless, omnipotent and immortal species who inhabit the Q Continuum. The Q have control over space, time, matter, and energy. Why the hell would they need genders? (FUCK VOYAGER EPISODE “THE Q AND THE GREY”)

The Borg: In TNG episode “Q Who?”, Q states that a Borg is “not a he, not a she”. Although we know that the collective as a whole presents itself with a female appearance and refers to itself as “Queen”, they are, in general, genderless. 

The J’naii: They are an androgynous, genderless race. They appear in TNG episode “The Outcast” (which contained nice metaphors to LGBT issues in my humble opinion)

The Trill symbiont: they are a sentient lifeform that live in the bodies of humanoid Trills and get transferred from one host to another upon the death of each host. They can change genders following the body they are in, but without their host, they are genderless.  

There are also the Andorians who don’t have 2 but 4 different genders (they’re actually more like variations of gender) An Andorian marriage requires 4 people.

And I’m pretty sure they are other examples! 

[arodudejude]

thank u frend.

[duneekah]

The Vissians are introduced in Enterprise and they are a race with three sexes! Of course this whole plot is undercut by Trip freaking out about a race having more than two genders when humans really should have figured out that their own race has more than two genders by that point And the episode has some pretty interesting themes concerning the oppression and education of minorities.

Also the Denobulans while having only two official sexes are culturally polyamorous with each person having 3-5 spouses.

[asksorelcorrigan]

And it also should be noted that 'sex' and 'gender' are not synonymous terms. 'Sex' refers to the biological reproduction mechanism and assignment whereas 'gender' refers to the cultural interpretation of the sex. Even on Earth, we may have two sexes (male or female) but there are many genders. There are those of a certain sex that identify as the gender it directly relatea to, some that identify as the gender opposite of their sex some who identify as neither and some that identify as both.

So with all of that variety with our two-sex system biological system, imagine all of the possibilities with more than that! Like you can have a species that only is a simultaneous hermaphrodite, therefor one real sex identity, but then a whole sliding scale of gender based on how often they take one certain roles (even a simultaneous hermaphrodite assumes a natural two-sex system anyway).

There is no limit and I adore it.

[asksorelcorrigan]

Could Spock father children?

Spock’s status as a hybrid makes him physically incapable of naturally fathering children. While technically possible through the use of genetic intervention, it would still have a low chance of success. There was much difficulty to bring about Spock’s own existence. Attempting to repeat the process with his offspring would involve more variables than we can manage with current technology.

Yes, because Spock’s parents are different species, he had to do a lot of tampering in his genetic code to make sure that everything worked enough to make him live. He expresses Vulcan biological traits because his parents had chosen to live on Vulcan so we felt that he would have a better chance of survival if he was like the species here. We had to basically turn on all of the right genes at the right time to make sure that the Human part of his genetics didn’t conflict with the biological blueprint that the Vulcan genes were trying to express.

That was hard enough with just a straight-shot half-and-half combination we were going with. Trying to do all of that over again but starting with Spock’s genetics, which I must note are not evenly spread because of our own tampering, and adding in another parent is just beyond our ability right now. Maybe in the far off future, but not now. If he wants to be a father, adoption is pretty much his only option.

[starfleetrecruiters]

I want to take classes but due to illegal testing when I was young I can't age and sometimes teleport randomly. I also have some Vulcan DNA grafted into me...... would this be an issue...

Yes.

There are physical and mental health requirements that mustbe met to enter Starfleet and Starfleet Academy. Your aging being stopped wouldnot be an issue as long as your body was able to pass the physicalrequirements. If your mental age was stopped as well, you may not have theemotional maturity required.

As for your Vulcan DNA that would not be an issue either aslong as it does not impact on your physical and mental health.

But your teleportation disability would prevent you fromserving in Starfleet or attending the Academy. Once you have learned to controlthis, you might be able to enlist or enroll.

You must remember that space is a dangerous place. Were youon a vessel, and you randomly teleported outside of the ship, you would die. Ifyou were on an away mission, where your team was depending on you, and yousuddenly vanished, it would put them in jeopardy. You also might randomlyteleport inside of the warp core or other dangerous areas of the ship.

[ace-moriarty-deactivated2017090]

No no I only teleport to other dimensions in intervals of 3 hours to 19 minutes. Technically im 490 years old. The Vulcan thing is im worried about stereotypes because I am a little emotional

[asksorelcorrigan]

Hi I am one of the muns who runs

starfleetrecruiters

and I wish to let you know that that blog is actually a reference blog (as is this one). It isn’t actually a blog for roleplaying, but one that roleplayers use for resources. You are more than free to ask questions to us, but we won’t be roleplaying with you through it.

[asksorelcorrigan]

What do Vulcans think about Humans?

There is no simple answer to that question. The view of Humans is assuredly as varied and nuanced as how Humans view Vulcans. There are those who insist that Humans are more free to express themselves in a manner that we are not and that this makes them a more well-adjusted society. This thought is rare, but is present. There are others however who do not agree and see Humans as an almost inferior race of beings who do not compare to us in intellect and reason. This group also can argue that Vulcan must separate itself form the Federation or risk being ‘tainted’ by Humans and other supposedly inferior races. There are many more however that take an approach that is a gradation between these two viewpoints. 

I myself was once less tolerable of Humans. Most of my experiences with them seemed to validate my own notions that Vulcans were objectively better even if I did not adhere to the extreme that others had expressed. However it has been my work with Daniel that has allowed me to take a more open-minded approach to Humans than many of my brethren would not consider.

As a Human living on Vulcan, it is easy to encounter these differences. As a doctor, I have found that there were some who doubted my ability to tend to Vulcan patients because there are some aspects of care that I physically cannot provide. While that is true to some extent, I have found that I bring more to the table than they realize. The fact that I can think outside the box better than many Vulcans has led to some pretty amazing medical breakthroughs, especially where Spock is concerned. Really the main problem is that not a lot of Vulcans leave the homesteads, so many of their ideas about Humans were based on limited experiences of accounts of others. At least that was the case before the Va'Pak. If there is one thing that is true about most Vulcans is that they can be pretty stubborn, especially if they come to a conclusion that is based upon reason and logic, or more dangerously if they can justify their ideas with them. 

It should be noted however that the Va'Pak has had a polarizing effect on Vulcan culture and that includes its interactions with the rest of the Federation. While it did force Vulcans out of their homes, they very quickly found a new one and are currently rebuilding. While this has opened the eyes of some Vulcans, others have taken a more conservative approach and stress the need to preserve Vulcan culture. This is sometimes at the expense of outsiders. The fact that I’ve been with Vulcans for a long time has allowed my personal experiences to go on relatively unchanged, but there has been a noted resistance to outsiders as well even after accepting help from them. I’m sure anthropologists are going to have a field day with this once they are able to. I wouldn’t blame them either.

Indeed, many surviving adult Vulcans have been tasked with raising orphaned Vulcan children. I have been made aware that well-meaning Humans such as Daniel have offered their assistance in this capacity as well, but have been denied so that Vulcan culture can continue to future generations. While Vulcans have rebuilt their society in some ways at a remarkable pace, it must be understood that there is still mass confusion in others. These issues, including but not limited to broken bonds and their results, will influence a Vulcan’s interactions and opinions of their society and those who are not part of it. It cannot yet be determined what lasting effects this will have on interactions with the Federation.

[asksorelcorrigan]

Are healers and doctors the same thing?

The two terms are generally pretty synonymous in that Vulcan Healers are medically trained and treat patients. But they are not exactly the same.

The key point of difference lies in our ability to use traditional forms of patient care using our telepathy. It is for this reason that Healers tend to require high esper ratings for our profession requires constant telepathic contact with individuals who are not necessarily in a proper state of mind themselves. Such methods are taught in a traditional manner as well that is usually not shared with outsiders. 

Really it’s all about cultural connotations of the word ‘Healer’. It is a word that is translated from a Vulcan term that really would be harder for me to explain the subtle nuances of. You could probably talk to Lady Amanda about that if you have a few hours to kill.

This is based on the mun’s personal headcanon using inferences.

[asksorelcorrigan]

(You don't need to post this) OMG! You're both of those accounts?! I absolutely stalk all three of your pages, how did I not realize that the same mun ran all three?!? You're amazing. Please know that.

Oh thank you nonnie! It really warms my heart to hear that you like all three of them, especially when I’m not exactly the most active person around. Thank you for sticking with me! Especially on this blog which gets the least activity on my part. I have so many started ideas and I don’t have any done.

[asksorelcorrigan]

How did you two meet? (Also, I love this blog, does the mun have any other accounts?)

Well we’ve been involved in a few Federation medical conferences so I guess we technically met at one of those. 

The research that led to the birth of Spock necessitated a collaboration between a Human doctor and a Vulcan healer. Daniel’s skill and knowledge made him the most logical candidate. 

Sorel is no slouch either. Even before I came along he was one of Vulcan’s leading medical researchers. It wasn’t hard to figure that he’d be involved. I have to admit that I think I was just the least annoying of the qualifying applicants.

Your temperament was a factor in the selection.

Hey, at least everything worked out and here we are decades later.

As the mun I admit that I’ve been getting super lazy with actually using them as characters when answering reference questions. I am glad that you are interested in them though! Really makes me happy. I do have a couple of other blogs, they are currently on hiatus (more or less) while I get school things under control. But I’ll put them below.

drmbenga

logicallyinlove

[asksorelcorrigan]

Why do Vulcans have their first mind melds at seven? Is it simply the job of the than-tha to show the Vulcan child what a mind meld is like?

Seven years old is a culturally significant age for Vulcans due to the fact that Planet Vulcan operates in seven year cycles. Many things happen for Vulcan children at the age of seven including their khas-wan (maturity and survival test) and forming a bond with a bondmate (though this practice is not as popular as it had been in antiquity). 

These various events are therefor a series of coming-of-age tests and ceremonies in Vulcan culture. It is at the age of seven that a Vulcan is considered to have the maturity of an adult, even if they would not be sexually mature for several more decades when they experience their first Pon Farr. 

Edit: The than'tha is simply the title of the adult who oversees the first of these ceremonies since showing the Vulcan child how to mind meld occurs on the eve of their seventh birthday.

[asksorelcorrigan]

How do mated Vulcans know when their mate is in Pon Farr if they themselves are not?

Bonded Vulcans share a telepathic link with their bondmates. Not only does this transmit thoughts, but it is also possible to sense when they are in danger. Therefor a Vulcan can tell when their bondmate is in Pon Farr by either being told directly or sensing it through their bond.