should probably point out i have a really fucked up schedule for when i'm free because my irl is pretty hectic, so sometimes i'm answering a lot of asks at once and then i'm dead for long stretches.
didn't expect to get any asks to begin with, the box was open more as a joke with my friend, so it's cool that i'm getting asks! there's nothing really crossing a line on what can be asked, and i'm not ignoring anyone if it's taking a while for something to be responded to. i'm just real busy
sometimes i just wanna focus on drawing stuff too since coughs look at the blog name which, given above context, is kind of hard to find time for
idk if i have to make that like an official or more detailed post or something? i dont think i do, its not like im getting much traffic so i think this will suffice as a pinned thing for now but ig lmk if that changes.
vertcest ship? I'm inchrested, tell me more (genuinely)
vertcest (corrupt vert x normal vert) is more of a crackship, so i don't have a lot to go off at the moment! it's not a ship i take too seriously given i think c!vert is in deep mourning and grief, resolve hardened by the sacrifice c!sherman made in the storyline to keep going forward, and also i think vert would be freaked out by his counterpart.
but because 'double down' was the inspiration for c!au, i got stuck on what to actually do with that episode or how to recontextualize it for c!au, and so,,, vertcest kept coming up as a joke
if c!vert couldn't steal normal sherman (also a joke) then surely he'd just have to show vert how it's done! so much potential wasted because vert's too pussy to make a move on sherman. he doesn't know what he has to lose. doesn't know how little time there is (and c!vert, not understanding that normal bf5 won't go down the same path c!bf5 did, thinks normal sherman is also doomed if vert doesn't do better.)
cue c!vert (disguised as normal vert) trying to come on to sherman really hard, only for normal vert to finally return and get in the way. then c!vert and vert hatefucking after playing tug-of-war with sherman doesn't work out.
so this one's less of a sales pitch jfkgjfh i don't have a product to sell with vertcest other than an inside joke i'm willing to share with you basically lmao
I saw u mentioned omegaverse a couple of times so cough, what designations do u think all the bf5 has?
Me personally :
Alpha : Vert (tho im a bottom vert truther so i also like him being an omega), AJ (a chill alpha who finds his adrenaline fuel from risque sport instead of uh, typical omegaverse activities), Agura (she would bench press everyone in the team), Zoom (he hasn't gotten the hang of it tho)
Beta : Tezz (big "i hate designations it disturbs my work" energy), Spinner (he can be in any
+ Grace (feisty omega who can bench press men twice her size) & Zeke (he transcends above designations)
omegaverse is so unexplored. i love omegavese. could yap forever. my personal flavors/preferences/worldbuild for omegaverse are vast and wide and honestly it's kind of cringe so i'm sorry in advance. you've unlocked a beast in me (insert werewolf ripping shirt)
i'm just gonna immediately put the cut here cus i think i'm gonna sound unhinged, and i imagine most fandom doesn't really want to see a wall of text screaming about vaguely nsfw opinions on how i think a fictional world setting functions, or my annoying headcanons on how this applies to beloved characters of a franchise.
i'll try to stay focused on the characters than shill my broader omegaverse opinions, but we'll see how it goes.
grabs you by the shoulders: have you considered that the secondary sexes (alpha, beta, omega,) aren't defined by who tops and bottoms, it just changes the tools they have to work with?
you can have alpha vert AND he can bottom if you wanted!!! it'd come with a hearty side of social stigma, overcoming internal angst, and fighting instincts on what it means to be an alpha who 'submits' or 'presents' himself and relinquishes control in the bedroom, if you're into that!
or he could be an omega who tops! he's a male omega, so he'd still have the equipment to do it. and that'd be some kind of arc in self-empowerment and being a devious omega who gets to enjoy putting bedpartners in their place, thriving on a taste of social dominance he doesn't get elsewhere on account of being an omega.
or top alpha vert, and bottom omega vert work too. i hope you liked my sales pitch on what i mean when i say secondary sex doesn't impact what goes on in the bedroom when it comes to my personal hcs.
secondary sex also doesn't dictate personality, even though there are definitely set archetypes for each one or there's a generalized expectation of how an alpha, beta, or omega should act. tropes to subvert, expectations to divert, or lean into depending on what i'm feeling. very fun.
it's so underutilized. there's a lot of different angles to explore omegaverse from, but it's usually just alpha/omega (and i also like alpha/omega a lot too!) betas get cast aside in any ship/are brushed off as just 'normal' - which they're not, considering that makes zero sense biologically, but you get my point.
the majority of bf5 feel like alphas to me. it's just that kind of environment, and their core traits - and also a broad spectrum of what an alpha can look like, how that presents in different people.
vert: alpha. kind of your textbook alpha who's a bit of a hothead and had a lot of challenging behaviors growing up, didn't do well with a traditionalist alpha father who expressed a lot of aggression or demanded submission from vert, considered a wildcard in youth. unruly alpha boy, thought to be cocky and written off as simply too big for his britches given the place he was growing up. any kind of household trouble was just 'two alphas under one roof, you know how it is'.
but once he finally gets out and lives on his own, all kinds of pressure drops and he levels out. doesn't assume a default authority just because he's an alpha, but definitely uses his status as an alpha for sway in social settings if necessary. but, being an alpha leading a pack of (mostly) alphas means that he sincerely earned the respect to be in that position - or else there would've been a lot more in-fighting and challenges for the top.
given both the time period and his own conservative-religious background, isn't too well-versed on the intricacies of betas and omegas beyond the very generic terms explained to him growing up. but refuses to remain ignorant and does the best he can to educate himself without putting pressure on his non-alpha teammates, so that he can look out for them and support them in ways that meet their needs as opposed to expecting them to meet him halfway.
all around, very grounded and well-meaning alpha despite his roots. doesn't want to be a tyrant, and wants to lead his pack in a way that suits them - not conforms to antiquated ideas of what a successful pack looks like.
but because vert keeps himself in check and has a forcibly tight grip on his hormones, instincts, etc. in order to be that sturdy, reliable, level-headed leader, i do think he's always like. two seconds away from sinking his teeth into something. always. it builds up and boils his blood (not necessarily negative instincts, but just. instincts. overwhelming desires to perform actions that make his hindbrain itch.)
that bleeds over into his ruts. vert's ruts are hellish. high libido, yes, but also high protectivity and territorialism. like a herding dog. wants everyone, his people, his pack, all in one spot where he can see them. hypervigilant, exhausts himself on prowls, more testy and bares his teeth more, demands they listen to him because he's the alpha, he's pack leader, he knows what's best. (cue a lot of self-loathing over the fact that the rut brings out the traits vert shares with jack, and therefore hates having his rut / is on suppressants but doesn't abuse them to a point of unwellness.)
agura: alpha. lowkey kind of a repressed alpha at the start. the environment she grew up was also very conservative, and very constrictive when it came to expression - and so agura is often mistaken for a beta due to her lack of stereotypical alpha posturing (until she gets competitive, and that's where it's really obvious that she's an alpha.) of course, factoring into this is the fact that female alphas are less common and so aren't assumed of a woman most of the time.
while embodying traits of a good leader as well, she's also been socialized properly to be able to step back in line when it mattered. she never had much opportunity to flex her own leadership skills in childhood, and in the institutions she enrolls in from elementary into university she is someone who holds herself to a very strict standard of composure. and despite this, she has a very strong connection to her instincts and has learned to hone them into tools to use in her work rather than let them rule her.
that doesn't mean she doesn't have instincts or doesn't respond to hormonal shifts in interaction. as we see in the series, her trigger tends to be whenever someone accuses her of being weak - that's when alpha pride rears its head, especially in competitions with stanford.
but her insecurity doesn't come from her position, as she's both still pretty high up in the bf5 hierarchy but also because she's unlearned the instinctual connection alphas tend to make between 'domination = power = control'. she's plenty confident that she can have power and control without needing to be the utmost dominant authority in a setting, and is much craftier and adaptable because of it.
you can tell when agura's close to rut because she'll feed into playfighting, roughousing, and respond much quicker to challenges. it's a healthy way to reaffirm pack bonds and remind everyone of their place to engage in these behaviors. agura has a better relationship with her alpha-ness and therefore often plays the role of the older alpha knocking unruly younger alphas down a peg or two without hurting anyone.
i don't imagine her taking rut suppressants, to be honest. agura's not an especially volatile alpha who can't differentiate rationale from instinct, and she's sensible enough to retreat to her room to ride out the worst of the hormonal spikes. her rut isn't an emotional torrent of inner desires trying to take over, largely because of how she acknowledges her instincts in day-to-day and the multitude of outlets she gives herself for a healthy balance.
her ruts are still a chore to go through because she doesn't have a partner to help her with the sexual aspects, but not unbearable. and to her, that's not enough to warrant going on long-term rut suppressants when she can tough it out.
stanford: alpha. i can sort of see him being an omega for angst purposes. from a high-discipline aristocratic background, there's a couple different directions to go with him as an omega (sidelined due to prejudices against 'lesser' sexes, maybe they'd planned to marry him off rather than allow him to pursue anything of his own. or perhaps there are more sinsister undertones to what being an omega in an elite household is like, which i could see.)
for me, though, a lot of stanford's younger-brother insecurity definitely feels like he and simon were both alphas growing up, which only fostered a more hostile sense of rivalry in what already existed between the two of them. stanford growing up as the younger, perhaps lower-achieving or less decorated alpha runt, vying for attention and praise wherever he could get it because simon took most of the spotlight as the older, more accomplished, and promising heir to the estate.
in the beginning, stanford's ego is very fragile and there's a lot of sensitivity to his worth being questioned. he seeks out the leadership spot, whatever gives him traction and has people looking up to him, because his superiority complex stems from this idea that a real alpha is someone with enough positive attributes that they are worthy of being idolized. his false bravado feeds patches over any of the wounds in his self-esteem, and so any of his comments about how he'd be running things if he was the alpha (and not vert, or agura,) are really just desperate calls for someone to give him affirmation.
once stanford integrates into the bf5 pack and starts feeling confident in his own skin, he falls in line a lot easier and is more willing to recognize the respect that vert has earned from each of them. he's quite content in his role lower on the hierarchy because it's clear that he's valued and appreciated, alpha or not, though it's still a strong part of his identity.
that being said, i do think as a whole stanford is a 'softer' alpha than some may expect. he was a bit of a momma's boy (who was, of course, a married-off omega,) and therefore as much as he was an insecure little alpha trying to prove his stuff, didn't have a lot of direct alpha influence until he hit an all-boys boarding school populated mostly by alphas and betas (since omega males are typically rarer.)
i think he was in the habit of taking suppressants until he has a proper conversation with grace deeper into their relationship, at which point it's a decision to stop taking them - not the same as stopping contraceptives or birth control - as consistently. doesn't stop entirely, but will have longer breaks than the mandatory ones for health purposes, so that they can enjoy some time together.
stanford is also really fucking clingy during ruts. lowered emotional threshold and inhibitions. definitely still protective and a little more territorial, but only if provoked. at his safest and most comfortable, he's fussy, scent-marking everyone and everything, and while he doesn't herd everyone around like vert does, stanford definitely benefits from the dogpile that tends to form in a general area.
sherman: omega. very repressed omega, because everything about sherman is repressed. parents were both betas raising sherman in a rough, disadvantaged area that still had a lot of catholic undertones to the culture - so anything really omega about him was smothered both so he wasn't subject to prejudice but also so he wasn't considered easy prey. that, and due to circumstances, sherman had to grow up fast anyway.
tends to be mistaken for an alpha or a beta due to his build (and rarity of male omegas.) he doesn't go out of his way to hide that he's an omega, but he's not flaunting it either; he's private. his gentle demeanor is a product of his environment: sherman is someone who endeavors to be kind in spite of the hardship he went through, not because it's expected of him as an omega to be docile and obedient. and that's without going into the fact that he definitely managed to coast by growing up - having it be assumed that he's an alpha has its advantages. (,,, and disadvantages, when people realize he'd been 'lying'/'hiding' that he wasn't.)
he's pretty unmoored as an omega. there are surface behaviors he allows to bleed through when it comes to caring for others, and as long as he doesn't fuss too much it's never looked at too closely. caring for the team is simply expected, they're supposed to be looking out for each other. if sherman's worried about their youngest member then that makes sense, if sherman nudges someone to eat then it's practical, if sherman's taking extra precaution with something it's because the mission's critical.
when it comes to his own needs, however, sherman's a little neglectful. abuses heat suppressants (cue trope of him being forced to go off suppressants and endure a heat, or getting ill because he won't to stop taking them here), refuses to truly nest or make himself comfortable out of fear that it'll be ripped away from him. he's gotten so used to ignoring his instincts, and enduring hormones going out of whack - biological expressions of what his body is telling him it needs - because he's essentially been doing it all his life. it's like there's a barrier between himself and his 'inner omega'; all that raging, demand for comfort, for stability, sounds muffled like it's underwater. all calm on the surface.
(there's also a lot to do with spinner's involvement in sherman's life to an extent that it's almost territorial invasion. they're close, they're siblings, but anything that was shermans became spinner's too. as well-meaning as spinner is, sherman's inability to settle stems from a lifetime of curating his spaces for someone else's comfort.)
sherman's heats are also just insufferable. he didn't have many good ones before he was old enough to start taking heat suppressants, and so memories of them are just a dissociated haze of feeling aching, gut-wrenching cramps, feeling uncoordinated and out of control, exposed and vulnerable. so when the time inevitably comes that sherman must go through heat in his adult life, there's a lot of fear and uncertainy surrounding that.
spinner: beta. i'm not of the opinion that betas are totally unaffected by alphas and omegas around them, but i do think spinner would try to act like he is. a large part of spinner's cleanliness, squeamishness, etc. comes from a sensitivity to scents and gland secretion - overwhelming personal scents, or general smells and emotional-communication secretion give him a headache. to combat that, he's very clean and applies scent-dampeners to everything he can. his own scent-blocker patches, but also takes a nasal spray that totally mutes any kind of smell.
this is part of why spinner is kind of oblivious to more subtle social cues because he's detached himself from one of the primary nonverbal ways people in omegaverse tend to communicate with each other. he can't always pick up on the underlying seriousness, aggravation, irritation in someone's scent because he's made it so he can't smell anything. there are definitely other ways to read a room too, but in general spinner can be a little oblivious - it's known that he likes to wind people up for his own amusement, which makes him an incongruous element in pack dynamics.
to be fair, spinner's probably kicked to the side a lot due to being an alpha (there's a lot of social stigma about betas being useless or not contributing anything,) growing up - especially when alphas of the area they grew up in were the pinnacle of machismo culture, which he likely started modelling his behavior/persona off of in order to feel like he fit in more. his comedic relief 'cool guy' act tended to work more back home because the best way to dismantle alpha posturing, aggression, or intimidation was to simply not take it seriously since a lot of it was just for image. obviously, spinner learns the hard way in a new environment that not every alpha he meets is like the ones back home.
i hc that a lot of betas, while not having a consistent heat or rut cycle, can spontaneously react to someone's rut/heat if they're sensitive enough to the chemosignal triggers of the omega or alpha around them. this is called a 'pseudo cycle' or 'sympathy heat/rut' (respective of whether they're reacting to a rut or heat) - and it's not just for potential sexual partners. heats and ruts as a whole are not explicitly sexual in nature, it's just that most adult individuals tend to treat them that way. you get families who tend to spend cycles together, because they're still a pack - it just compounds on nonsexual components of a cycle (like protectiveness, territorialism, nesting, provision instincts, etc.)
all that to say spinner currently doesn't respond to any of the team's ruts even on a platonic level. he's pretty smooth sailing, no bumps in the road. in childhood, before he had the nasal spray and scent-dampeners,
i think he shared a few sympathy heats with sherman (again: non-sexual, meaning not sexual or incestuous. sharing a heat with a sibling or family member is like having a sleepover while you're both feeling under the weather, and trying to look after each other.) and lowkey sherman just took care of spinner the entire time when they happened, as opposed to resting or looking after himself. spinner kind of misses it when sherman goes on suppressants, but at the same time he's kind of glad because it means he isn't responding so strongly to sherman anymore lol
zoom: alpha. i have less to say for zoom because he's pretty self-explanatory. he's a young alpha with something to prove, kind of puppy-ish in his eagerness to get along with people and show his worth. he can be pretty hot-headed and impulsive, and maybe doesn't have his instincts entirely reined-in yet.
looking up to vert in this context isn't much different, but there's the added element of vert having a third layer of authority - setting a standard that zoom wants to live up to. vert already had influence over zoom due to zoom's hero-worship, and also because vert is the leader of bf5. being pack alpha on top of that inspires zoom to try his very best to be considered a valued member of the pack, team, and friend.
i can see him being a stubborn little omega with something to prove sometimes, but not enough to really explore it. it doesn't grab my attention as much as alpha zoom does.
tezz: beta. likewise, tezz is definitely the kind of beta who wants to stay in his lane, focused, unbothered, and as removed as he can get from the cluster of hormones and knot-brained alphas that make up the majority of bf5. i think that's one of his biggest draws to sentients too, the fact that he's curious as to what a world can look like without secondary sexes shaping how a society would form - but of course, much more interested in the technological advancements they made, the weaponry that came from it, etc.
there's definitely like a sense of superiority because tezz definitely fell for that bs about beta's being 'unaffected' by pack dynamics, scents, instincts, etc. because he liked the way it put him outside the social bubble, on account of already being introverted, packless for so long, and his worldview being that everything is his a testing ground for his own equipment.
he definitely gets drawn into the pack against his own will, but subtly and slowly enough that he didn't realize it was happening until he realized he was anchored by pack bonds to other people. lots of flusterment over realizing that they're attached enough to him (like yes, sure, tezz is incredible, obviously they love him - but oh, they love him?) and worse, mixed with dread and despair, when he is forced to acknowledge that tezz has grown attached enough in return for the bonds to be reciprocal.
aj: alpha or beta. another pretty self-explanatory one. he's falling somewhere between vert and agura in terms of competent, self-contained, with healthy outlets whenever he starts getting pent-up. he had a basic background too, his parents were more distant or more focused on his siblings, and so aj had a lot of room and freedom to grow up how he wanted, without much influence.
he's so chill, enough that i could easily see him as a beta as well, since whether alpha or beta i think aj's role in the pack will always come down to being another peacekeeper who smooths over tensions, and facilitates a lot of safe spaces for people to express frustration or confront problems without letting them snowball into challenges or fights. i don't think aj even gets involved in playfights or roughousing either; there's nothing in him that feels the urge to test his resilience against other alphas that way.
grace being an omega is very fun (though ig i'd consider her more down to earth than feisty). sheriff johnson is an old grouchy alpha and zeke transcends above designations, you're right i'm comfortable placing as a bit of a nonconventional beta.
i can see omegaverse extending to vandals too considering it's kind of an 'animalistic' world setting, and lot of the mechanics to do with heats/ruts, mating, traditions, etc. are in fact inspired by animal behaviors - in which case, if we're including vandals, kalus is an alpha. and then, even though i'm a little conflicted to include them because they're non-mammalian, krocomodo is an alpha, sever is an omega, and my darling beautiful son hatch is a beta though he's the one i'm most against designating a secondary sex to? oh and then grimmian's also a beta, probably. idk idrc about him as much.
i'll have to come back and revisit my opinion on how omegaverse applies to vandals, because i'm undecided on the potential it has to present differently in different species of vandal :thinking: and i unfortunately love the vandals enough to come back and think about it lmao
i'm not gonna throw the sarks (inorganic, obviously don't experience biological functions,) or sentients in here. sentients, even if they're not… robotic ?? they're not organic the same way humans and furries are, and are different enough that it just doesn't feel like omegaverse mechanics would be something that applies to them. sentients don't seem to have a lot of sexual dimorphism anyway ignoring the basic 'feminine' and 'masculine' models of the characters.
i'm in the middle of rehauling sentient lore + species notes for that anyway, so it wouldn't make sense for me to try and decide right now given all of it's up in the air.
Gotta say, I agree with some of the points you made on Jack. Maybe I was wearing rose-tinted glasses but the way they characterized Jack makes me feel like they're trying to go for a generic "cool", "calm", & "collected" dad at that time but he comes across as more detached & try hard now. I was expecting him to be a bad guy at first tbh, where he has to betray the BF5 to "keep them safe". I think Jack is reckless to a fault where he forgets about others (his family) while Vert can reign in his recklessness when faced with the fact that it can affect others (as shown by Zoom who looks up at him like he hung the stars lol).
Also also, hc of Vert and Agura? Btw, who do u ship Agura with?
they probably did intend for jack wheeler to be the kind of cooler, older tough guy who suited being the kind of man you'd expect to be vert's father, especially with how vert is portrayed in the show too. i know i'm extra cynical when it comes to reading into things, so i don't doubt that they had good intentions + don't begrudge people who enjoy jack, or don't think he's as bad of a parent as i personally do.
there are plenty of angles to look at it from, but i just think a lot of how you pull off a character portrayal is reliant on how other characters react to them. and vert wasn't receptive to jack at all (for numerous reasons and provided context already), which gave me the material to go as wild as i wanted with it.
it's a phenomenon that happens with a lot of pre-2015 children cartoons. you think it's fine in childhood because you're the target demographic and you're receiving the information put in front of you as it was intended; you go back and look at it again when you're older, and it's always more striking how certain exaggerations or character choices seem 'wrong' now that you're in a different frame of mind. same thing with horrid henry's parents, double dee's parents, and plenty of others. and it surprises you because it's not the parents who were demonstrably 'bad' even when you watched it the first time around. it's very interesting !
but i also totally get why it (specifically jack in this convo) draws different or paler reactions out of fandom. what people decide to do with the information, and how they interpret it, is always a gamble.
i don't really ship agura with anyone? maybe kyburi in a hatecrush kind of way, but kyburi is painfully hetero it doesn't go anywhere. it's more just funny as a crack option to me, rather than something i seriously consider a 'ship'. no one else really draws my attention with agura; i just really like her friendship with the team, and she doesn't really scream to me as a character who needs a partner either.
the only thing i know about my shipping preferences for agura is that i don't like her with stanford, and not even because i ship stanford/grace. their friendship was something hard-earned and i don't see them being compatible romantically.
vert and agura to me are the posterchild of an equal dynamic. and i don't mean that in the sense that they are constantly matched, the exact same in every way and bring nothing new to the table that the other doesn't already exhibit in some way.
the best way i can describe it is if they're two shapes trying to reach a bar, where vert might be 90% of the way there, then agura knows how to become that last 10% and vice versa. i think that's the worst metaphor i could think of, but what i'm trying to get across is that they're compensatory.
where vert can be fast and pull too many tricks, agura might pull him back into line and remind him to slow down. where agura might be impatient when it comes to decision making, vert might encourage her to pause and take a look at the bigger picture. similar issues that present differently in their characters, that they can recognize and call to heel when needed.
my friend made a joke about them being 'mom and dad' the way they sat as a united pair at the diner table when they were scolding the team at one point while we were watching the show the first time, and it kind of sticks in my head a lot. because it's not in a shippy way, but structurally speaking it makes sense; they're the two at the top of the command chain when it comes to how the bf5 functions (the only one above them is sage.) they work together a lot when it comes to managing the team and making sure everyone's got their shit in order.
vert & agura's dynamic is good ol' fashioned mutual respect and trust that was earned through proving themselves capable and reliable.
they just click. they're really good teammates before they're good friends, though the fact that they have such high synergy in a combat environment does help a lot when it comes to getting closer. in terms of actually befriending each other, agura is someone who's been burned in the past and has dedicated a lot of her life to being strong, independent, and relying only on herself when possible (as we see throughout the show until she's forced to ask for help, which s when she and stanford overcome some of their differences - which is also really cute bonding!)
vert is also someone strong, independent, and self-reliant - but they don't burn the same. which, as much as it helps with their compensatory dynamic, can also work against them sometimes. compartmentalizing for the sake of working together in a battle zone is one thing (especially because i hc that agura has military background), and they do it great.
navigating each other outside of a dire situation is… interesting. they don't have any major schisms or hangups, it's just a lot of adjusting and getting used to each other. because, again, they're not complementary - they're compensatory, which can kind of mean that there almost isn't enough friction for something to catch interest. it takes one of them stepping forward and bridging the gap first.
but once they do, it's like wildfire and dry kindling. it's one of those quieter friendships built on solidarity. in a zombie apocalypse situation, if one of them got bitten they'd trust the other to do the right thing and put them down, y'know? out of anyone, who they either couldn't trust to follow through or didn't want to hurt in asking, vert and would trust agura to make it quick and painless, and vice versa.
their friendship is something that just clicked together in the background while life was going on around them. there's no moment in time they could pause and point out exactly when the friendship solidified, when it became more than just teamwork for a cause they all felt drawn to, etc.
i wouldn't call them sibling-like, though. that's agura and stanford, or vert and zoom. that doesn't make them less important to each toher, it's just that their (platonic) love for each other comes from different foundations and therefore probably lacks some of the softness that's connotative of a familial-adjacent bond.
what are your thoughts of anti/opposite sherman in the double down ep? for me, he's kinda underwhelming, felt like they could've done more with him and spinner. but he's entertaining in the very short screen time he appears
full discretion: im such a whiny little bitch when it comes to how my favs are portrayed, i get very precious over them and so episodes like 'double down' and fucking 'fusion confusion' are both sore spots in terms of general wasted potential in the series, but also 💢what did they do to sherman💢
i'm such a big hater sometimes it probably looks like 'why the fuck do you even like the show then' but yk whatever
i'm also really (ig sensitive is the word ?) to gross-out factor or toilet humor. i understand they have their place in children's media and that it's a relatively low stakes comedic effect, especially when its featured in a 'boy-centric' (+ tomgirl, tho i don't really think agura is one,) shows geared towards young boys. and we could go on about how girls are never marketed the same levels of grossness or encouraged to explore 'gross things' the same way unless there's a maternal aspect linked to it, make it a whole discourse and misogyny and whatever but i know you're probably aware and don't need a whole breakdown on societal constructs ingrained into children's media, blah blah.
but i've never really been into it? not even as a kid. i learned english through a lot of shows and i always had to skip through anything 'gross' that lasted longer than a second. even as an adult rewatching the series, whenever even spinner just farts when he passes out or that abhorrent s2 episode of agura 'out-grossing' spinner was just so rough to sit through for me. like i had to keep pausing and walking off because it's just provocative of such a,,, visceral reaction in me.
probably says more about me than the show, so anyway.
with that context in mind, I DID NOT LIKE HOW SPINNER AND SHERMAN WERE DONE IN 💔
i do appreciate the distinction of 'anti/opposite' because that's definitely how the episode felt it treated the rest of bf5, and only vert was 'corrupt' (ish) for some reason.
they could've done more with everyone in that episode, but you're right that it definitely feels underwhelming specifically for sherman and spinner considering they're the ones who get the most screentime other than opposite-vert himself.
it was like their first time confronting that they don't really have sherman as fleshed-out as the rest of the cast and therefore didn't really know how to flip him. maybe spinner too, but this is more noticeable in sherman, who (as much as i love him) only really ever follows spinner's lead, with maybe a few key differences to set him apart - likes eating healthy, is more of a textbook nerd as opposed to a gamer geek, etc.
so for the reversal of sherman to just be 'eats poorly and has a gut to show for it, is the stereotypical short-tempered brawn to spinner's brain' felt kind of insulting given the care they put into subverting the brains and brawn trope to begin with. it's almost correct, and for kids watching the show and aren't reading into characters as deeply as we do, that's fine. haha funny, sherman let himself go and gets angry.
there were elements to when sherman was onscreen that were interesting to me, like the fact that there was more reciprocal slapstick comedy (the pathetic hand-flippy smacking each other,) or that sherman did retain his common sense but sort of 'hid it' because of how he looked up more to spinner for guidance as an older brother rather than speak up to contradict - but that's also something he shares with normal sherman, just that normal sherman starts speaking up more as he gains confidence throughout the series (and kind of gets bullied into not using his 'nerd language' anymore and that becomes tezz' thing instead.)
i did enjoy seeing sherman just shove spinner around. so much catharsis in seeing at least a sherman who gets to have the last word with spinner sometimes. i do enjoy spinner but he's very domineering and bratty in his dynamic with sherman normally, and sherman fights back even less/gets to have less chances to tell spinner off as the series progresses (even though spinner's amount of being annoying stays the same) - so seeing opposite sherman just PUNCH him sometimes, even though i understand it's to demonstrate a dysfunctional sibling relationship and portray opposite sherman as more of a bully than a softie, did make me cackle silly on vc when i was watching it
that being said i was disappointed in this episode not only for the portrayal of anti/opposites and how little most of bf5 got explored, but i was also kind of expecting this to be gearing up to a subplot that set up us exploring more of sherman and spinner's relationship.
(very much me reading too deeply into this, ofc:) i got the impression that there was some unresolved tension between sherman and spinner that never got discussed. i know for the sake of the show it was likely just typical sibling squabbling and nothing too deep about it, but for the sake of my own headcanons on their backstory, how their relationship came to be as it is, etc. there was a lot of non-arguments or one particularly memorable interaction of spinner going "oh, what would you do without me, lil bro?" and sherman muttering "live to see my next birthday" that felt like it could've been much deeper than a one-off line.
so as much as 'double down' kind of sucked from all angles it had a lot of potential and i was really hoping it'd force sherman and spinner's subplot to stir up a bit more and have us look into what causes so much friction between them. obviously i have my own opinions on what that is but i wanted supportive evidence i could pick from the show so bad </3
tl;dr: i'm a little icked out by how they did anti/opposite sherman and i agree that he's very underwhelming and a waste of potential, and i think the same for ALL of bf5 - which is how c!au even came to be, because i had so many gripes about what constituted as 'anti/opposite' and what was 'corrupted'. it had a lot of potential as an episode but it felt like, at the same time, the writers didn't quite know what to do with the concept. for it to have been a reoccurring thing could've also been interesting.
What makes you ship vert/sherman? it's rare to see a verman (that's my ship name for them lol, or shert if I'm being funny) fan in the wild. I ship vert with anyone tbh bcs that man is made to be shipped, packaged & everything.
also who top/bottom/switch (coughnoneedtoanswerthisonecoughbutimcuriouscough)
i'll admit im pretty early-days fandom, so the order i put names in a ship tends to be indicative of who i think tops (first name = top, second name = bottom. not the same as dom/sub and other dynamics, etc.)
i went into it a little here, so if anything sounds repetitive i've probably already rambled about it. it's difficult for me to break down a ship into 'why'.
the way i imagine their relationship developing (slowburn, of course) over the series is one of the fluffier takes on a ship i've had in a hot minute, so it was kind of surprising that i was drawn to it at first. which is why i had to fuck it up in c!au
i just love barbie (sherman) and ken (vert) that's all /j
technically speaking, vert is the more assertive and 'takes the lead' of the dynamic but only because that's kind of his default state when approaching anything. there's some funny haha whipped for his wife elements going on in the background, but given how fucking slowly he and sherman are inching forward in their relationship, it sometimes looks like sherman is the more 'dominant' partner in their dynamic - vert is hyperaware of fucking things up in the beginning stages.
for his part, sherman kind of 'lets' vert take the reigns mostly because that's what he's used to doing. sherman's default state is sitting and being quiet while someone more vibrant decides how things go, and he's just ready to take care of the consequences. as vert and sherman's foundational relationship (platonic or romantic) strengthens, and vert brings sherman more out of his shell, i imagine sherman would probably be a little more teasing when he catches on to the effect he has on vert.
(in c!au this is a lot more overt in their dynamic, sherman is cooler and more aloof pink-coded, if that makes sense lol which lends itself to a more 'hard to get' style of lowkey flirting with vert. and vert is, naturally, a bit of a gonner for it - and more of an overconfident asshole, so the playfulness is ramped up. less of a slowburn, more of a falling-into-endless-blue. vert is just. totally swallowed up in sherman, rather than sherman being drawn to the light vert emits in the canon timeline.)
i do think the fact that i hc the show taking place in 1995 affects their attitudes as well. there's some obvious underlying stigmas at play, a lack of freedom to explore themselves, maybe some self-directed prejudice or hesitation to be openly affectionate or progress beyond 'just friends' due to the social and cultural climates at the time. obviously no one in the bf5 would have an issue, nor do i really think side characters at the diner would, but the broader context of rural, religious utah populated by predominantly gruff-demeanored working-class, etc. i'm sure you don't need me to spell it out.
this kind of background affects both vert and sherman in how they grew up, but i think vert has more of an inner complex about it. a bigger hurdle he needs to kind of overcome.
(suggestive tones/nsfw discussion under the cut);
so, for now, vert's pretty sure he's a top. he's open to subtle flirtation, from both girls and guys, but whenever a guy hints at expecting vert to bottom he tends to spook. cue high pitched voice and awkwardly laughing until he can slip away, because anything more than being handsy with another dude is a bit too much to think about. not quite insulted but definitely not willing to analyze any part of himself that would've shown interest.
sherman's the first guy he's ever been with beyond sketchy teen fumbling and risque experimentation (when he was away from his parents, more so once he moved out to handler's corner, but a few times in his adolescence too.)
this is all, of course, tragic for c!vert who is an unstoppable bi switch (still erring towards being more dominant + top, but much more willing to bottom, etc.)
meanwhile, despite his size sherman's pretty embarrassed about the fact that he likes bottoming. isn't very open about it, doesn't really flirt with anyone, and keeps his preferences under wraps. he's already a private person who tends to shove his own needs down in order to prioritize others; sex or romance aren't things he really pursues, even before his time with bf5 barring certain traumas i force on him.
i imagine he'd be happier to go with the flow. between the two of them, while sherman has his own hang-ups, doesn't carry the same insecurities about topping or bottoming (again, doesn't attribute the same weight to who tops/bottoms - is aware certain stigmas exist but hasn't let it get to him and hasn't been in environments where it's ever really been challenged, unlike vert.)
especially at the start of their relationship, when they finally start having more time together in the bedroom, sherman is happier going at a slower pace and letting vert feel out his own preferences, boundaries, etc. in more intimate scenarios.
which is kind of ironic, given vert in every other aspect of his life is all about 'speed' but is the thing slowing them down in their progression. not that sherman minds.
as far as 'switching' goes for canon, i think vert doesn't get much further than letting sherman gently suggest pushing the envelope during intimacy - but never going all the way. at most, sherman's pleasure derives from making his partner feel good; likewise, vert wants his partner to share in his pleasure: this works out great in a top!vert and bottom!sherman dynamic, but is more complicated if it were to switch since i have some weird opinions on sherman's relationship with topping (more of a no-touch service top, which is awkward for a vert doesn't enjoy being the only guy getting off.)
(which is, again, tragic for c!vert who has unlocked his full bi switch potential and has a broader understanding of how sex differs per individual, and has also been with c!sherman long enough to know how they can both indulge together to full capacity.)
lowkey i don't really see a lot of shipping potential in the show, i mainly enjoy it for the platonic dynamics. vertman + stangrace are just little bonuses to me and i could just as easily enjoy the show without them because a lot of the s1 team bonding, as well as the interactions between bf5 and vandals (and vandals amongst themselves), was really well written. s2 left a lot to be desired in that department, but definitely didn't push me to be interested in any new ships that could've come from aj and vert's appearance. (i did mention i could possibly see vert and aj, if sherman didn't exist, but even their friendship i find more rewarding than any romance between them.)
i do agree vert was MADE to be the fucking fandom bicycle, but there's just very few options i find appealing to pair him with. i know others ship him with krytus or zoom (? probably others, like you said,) but idk just none of them are interesting to me. i would take vertcest over most other ship i can think of outside of vert/sherman.
that might be more due to the fact that i have rose-tinted glasses for bf5 bonding, and also have a huge bias for a lot of writing in s2 (especially to do with red sentients or tezz' forced development.)
Hiiii first of all, absolutely love your art and how you draw the fellas, its a huge inspiration! And your headcanons are so well put together + the way you analyze characters is so good!!!
Anyways, got any headcanons for Spinner and Sherman and/or Spinner and Zoom's dynamics? (platonic ofc) i think Sherman and Spinner's sibling bond is really cute in the show, but it could be explored more. And Spinner and Zoom's dynamic in episodes like Missing in Action was really funny to watch and they're an underrated duo. Sorry for the wall of text aaa,,,
oh the episode where spinner bullied zoom so hard he got distracted, almost skewered, kidnapped by vandals, and as a result exacerbated zoom's self-sacrificial tendencies both out of a need to prove himself and overconfidence in being able to hold his own without backup? /hj
i wouldn't,,, personally call that episode a great portrayal of zoom and spinner's dynamic, but i definitely see it being the starting point of their friendship gaining sturdier foundation. it's an interesting episode for all three 'brotherly' relationships: spinner & sherman, vert & zoom, and spinner & zoom.
there's a lot to be said about the fact that the canonical brothers in the show aren't ever really portrayed with a strong sibling connection, both arguably more realistic in the constant squabbling but also hinting at something a bit more complex that causes dysfunction. i could go on forever about that, of course, because it's about my beloved sherman but i'll leave it there. i'll bring them up for comparison, but i think they're also deserving of their own post whether i remember to make it is up for debate.
despite being the older sibling, spinner doesn't have a lot of experience really being that - explicitly stated by sherman in 'missing in action': "hey big bro, it's my job to keep you out of trouble, right?" - and it shows a lot in his character. he's very immature, his jokes are usually at the expense of other people or about a sensitive point, he doesn't have the emotional comprehension to tell when he's gone too far. spinner's almost a caricature of a comic relief archetype, because he exists to push buttons and dispel tension, but he's kind of bad at it, actually. throughout the series, but compounded especially at the end of 'missing in action' when he flops hard during his standup routine. and so that on it's own is already interesting: a character who thinks he's the comedic relief but isn't.
he just kind of picks on people's insecurities, because spinner himself is also very insecure. most of that episode was him realizing he'd fucked up, and while worried about zoom was also concerned about his own place in the friendgroup. the rejection and disapproval from his teammates made him double-down.
then, in contrast, vert's clear concern for zoom - prizing him as a member of the team, someone important enough to go racing back for without a plan (more reckless when zoom isn't around to be influenced by his actions) - it's kind of like spinner is being provided a model of how he should behave with zoom in realtime.
spinner's used to being looked after. sherman's usually cleaning up his messes, smoothing out tensions caused by spinner's poor humor and flippant attitude, reigned in by sherman because spinner himself doesn't recognize when he's crossed a line. and spinner doesn't ever look too closely at why sherman acts that way throughout the series, so someone on the 'outside' like vert draws spinner's attention. shows him what he's actually supposed to be doing, how he's supposed to be fixing it.
it's a learning curve episode for spinner, really. as the episode goes on, he realizes how little zoom values himself - zoom tells kalus: "i am the least important guy on the team!" - and how willing zoom is to give himself over if there's something he deems more important. like the safety of earth, or his friends.
on one hand - SUPER annoying, personally, and i'm glad zoom gets a stronger sense of self as the series progresses because i think the way that was written for zoom was really clunky. didn't have me feeling suepr sympathetic because he didn't 'earn it'. lowkey i'll attribute that development more to zoom bonding with vert and the way vert inspires confidence in zoom, more than anything to do with spinner.
on the other hand, it's an eye-opener to spinner. oh, there's someone else like him on the team who isn't super confident in their position or their value as a teammate. the way zoom reacts when his place is questioned is different from spinner, too; zoom is a lot younger, a lot feistier, and feels like he has something to prove. it's directly acknowledged by other teammates too, which is why everyone else tends to worry and regret when they accidentally trigger zoom's insecurities (of course, in this episode, that is by calling him 'kid'.)
since it's earlier on in the series, none of the friendship dynamics are really concrete yet. spinner's always had sherman to look out for him, look after him, and help him feel better - this is spinner's encounter with someone who doesn't have a sibling who's hardwired to meet your needs. zoom is the youngest in the group, he's kind of on his own; the others care about him, but those bridges haven't connected yet, if that makes sense? this episode is very strong for zoom's hero-worship of vert and vert meeting the needs that come with that very protectively.
spinner doesn't quite learn his lesson considering the episode ends with him still calling zoom a 'kid', but there's substantial change in that dynamic because zoom goes back to poking back at spinner ('pops', old man, etc. which is funnier if we include my hc that spinner's the oldest in the group, and therefore this episode was almost entirely about a 30 year old bullying a 20 year old, but i'll be kind and not incorporate that.) whereas before, zoom had ultimately dropped being 'playful' because spinner had been getting so deep under his skin, reacting instead with aggression and frustration until he pulled the 'i'll prove myself by going back alone!' move.
as for the rest of the series, however, spinner and zoom's dynamic is very fun. spinner doesn't magically become a more responsible older sibling figure (unfortunate for sherman and everyone else,) and for zoom that's okay because that's not really what zoom needs from spinner either. the rest of the friendgroup is already older than him and therefore has a slight barrier even when he starts feeling more like part of the team. spinner's immaturity puts him on a level playing field with zoom.
the best way to put it imo is that the growth between spinner & zoom happens because of developments happening in their relationships with other people. that means spinner becomes more conscious of the kind of jokes he makes - making sure they're actually jokes, not just jabbing at someone's insecurity; he also gets less defensive when zoom jabs back at him. spinner's humor is more commentative, i think he just needed some time to adjust to the fact that zoom is quite snarky and sarcastic in comparison.
(lowkey i think a lot of spinner's behavior around zoom at first was because he wasn't used to not being treated as the youngest. they're both very attention-seeking at times, with a strong desire for validation that can drive them be to reckless or inconsiderate until it's too late. the both of them growing around that and becoming better team players, as a whole, gives spinner and zoom a lot more room to actually be friends and get along.)
(and i wish spinner's discomfort with watching sherman fuss over someone else was explored a little more too. i hc that after incidents involving their parents happened, they only really had each other; being part of the bf5, for spinner, is the opposite problem some of our other members have. where some others are struggling with being part of a team, spinner is struggling to be on his own without sherman sometimes - when he doesn't have sherman's undivided attention.)
they're a lot more 'bouncy' after 'missing in action', i think? their banter flows a lot smoother and,, the only flaw really is that zoom and spinner both forget the kind of vehicles they ride, so when they get competitive they both seem to forget that the buster can kill zoom if spinner distracts sherman's driving too much. which is a nice contrast to when the chopper and the buster work together (ramp for zoom's flying, seemingly one of the few mechanics that only spinner can do in the buster tank iirc?)
🤔 agree that spinner & zoom are a bit of an underrated duo. perfect combination for giving both sherman and vert heart attacks jgkfjh they read to me a lot as kind of a terrible twos situation when left to their own devices. there's always an underlying level of friendly rivalry but the worst of the bumps on the road to them getting closer were definitely addressed in 'missing in action' and the days following, i feel.
so, not quite headcanons about their dynamic i guess but a hc on how their dynamic came to be in the first place. i'll have to chew on it a little more to decide any specifics, but i do think they have a lot of potential as a funny lil guy duo
(also wall of text is fine, great even <3 it makes me feel better abt myself lmao. ty for your kind comment, i kinda stopped doing these big posts for other fandoms cus i felt like i was doing too much. so its cool that i get to just dump my thoughts and drawings here and not worry abt it)
how you mentioned jack wheeler makes me curious cuz most of the time other fans interpret him at worst, a neglectful dad (my headcanon too). bcs he seems like he still loves vert in the very few episodes he appears in, though that might just be the trauma of being separated from his family for years hitting him. sooo any headcanons of mr wheeler?
if the past several posts haven't been clear, i don't like how a lot of s2 was handled. so just to preface: i characterize jack with inspiration from the episode 'legacy', but i don't treat the fact that he got swept up in a stormshock + was surviving in battle zones, fighting sark, etc. as canon. he never left home, which is why vert did.
but we can talk about the episode itself first. i'm gonna be more focused on jack's behavior than the actual plot since there were a lot of holes coughs i understand certain events were necessary for the continuation of the overall story.
straight off the bat, i agree that he's negligent. any of the flashbacks regarding jack's time on earth imply that he prioritized his car over his family, his first instinct upon being taken to a new dimension is to see how that tech can upgrade his car so he can keep racing. second instinct, when he sees the second stormshock, is to go straight into it without concern for his family back home. it could be argued that he was overconfident and assumed he could get back home like he did the first time, but even still it's weird as hell to drop everything to put yourself in danger when there is no reason to.
jack lacks remorse. he's hardly torn up over abandoning his family, accident or not. it's the very first thing vert confronts him about, and jack opts to distract instead of take accountability - and once again shows interest in a car over his own son. maybe racing and a "car club" is something they have in common, but the attempts to swerve the topic are obviously on purpose since jack does it multiple times in the episode when having to confront the impact his actions have had.
never, throughout the episode, is there a willingness to go home. jack doesn't want to. doesn't care how his wife and son are doing, doesn't even really seem to care that his son is right in front of him after the better part of a decade. when he goes 'aww look at you' it's just another attempt to distract - and also display ownership, but i'll get on that later.
he's also very dismissive of anything that doesn't hold his interest or pertain to jack himself in any way. vert's feelings don't matter, vert's accomplishments don't matter, vert's knowledge and experience of the very thing they're trying to fight doesn't matter. it's always jack knows best, jack should be listened to, and jack isn't built to be a team player - arguments that position him as authority, and make it so he has an excuse to not defer to vert even when the situation calls for it.
sure, could be argued that jack's just a little old fashioned, and hasn't adjusted to seeing vert all grown up. but when that presents itself as anger and insult whenever his authority, superiority, or experience is questioned, that's not jack being a little old fashioned. that's jack being used to getting his way, maybe even through threats to get it. i am personally of the opinion that jack was like that before he got sucked into an aftershock and thrown into a fighting ring. especially with how familiar that back and forth seems to be between jack and vert.
that "now learn something else: i'm your father. sons learn from fathers" wasn't a new argument to them, even if it's been years since jack's probably said it to vert. jack slams his hands on the hood of his car because he's pissed off when vert tries to joke a little (at jack's expense). vert's noticeably quieter for the rest of the episode. doesn't have anything to say even when jack's talking to him for once - not that anything jack is saying is actually relevant to vert, since the majority of jack's dialogue is focused on bragging about himself or his car.
you know when a parental figure berates you, tries to knock you down a peg, or overreacts aggressively to something you do? and two seconds later they try to hug you instead of apologizing, and you understandably don't want it? that's what watching a lot of this episode felt like. it was very uncomfortable.
vert's reasonably upset with his father's actions, both what led jack to the battle zone and also for how he behaves the rest of the episode. when jack can't quickly patch over those emotions he gets frustrated.
i agree that jack feels guilty over it. you can see that he doesn't really know how to connect with vert (and doesn't really want to, imo,) but when the guy who's supposed to be jack's son - his responsibility, someone he cares for - looks like a kicked dog every time jack rejects him, it's hard not to feel bad. it's also hard not to feel uncomfortable, when jack doesn't want anything to do with that emotional load or take accountability for the fact that he is the one causing those problems.
jack wheeler wants to be a hero. that's the entire tone of the episode. jack manufactures issues so that he can keep being this lone wolf figure fighting on his own in a strange world, kind of like self-fulfilling prophecy. i quite literally assumed jack had put another tracker in his car after the sherman pointed out that the previous tracker had likely been destroyed when bf5 took down tors-10; jack's dismissal was so fast, bored almost, because it meant 'problem solved!' instead of 'here's an excuse for jack to keep fighting'. (obviously, in the episode it turns out its a 'celluar-level' tracking device that he can't help/maybe didn't know about, which makes zero sense because i dont recall the bf5 or vandals being tagged that way when they were subject to the fighting ring in earlier episodes, and therefore imo was just an excuse for jack to not come home.)
he purposefully drives beyond bf5's reach when being pursued by red sark and puts himself in a dangerous position for the flashy heroics and to show off. he can't play a 'good passenger' even when it's clear that if jack just got in reverb, it'd give the team a much easier time. jack insists over and over that old school works, that he's survived just fine on his own, and refuses to admit that he's not got the specs to keep up - stanford literally points out that jack has bald tires (very dangerous) at one point, and the other mods made to his car are bullshit that i don't believe he'd pull off on his own are comparably rudimentary.
everything in the episode is saying that jack needs to go home. he's not fit enough anymore, they resolve the red mobi (which wasn't jack's business and wasn't something he needed to make his own personal mission. only he did that. only he made it his mission to fight 'bad guys',) and other than the (dumb plot-hole) microchip, nothing is stopping him from returning to earth.
jack just doesn't want to stop being the main character. it's something vert's familiar with, and very fed up with by the end of the episode.
the only times jack and vert get along in this episode is when vert steps back and lets jack take the lead. when vert lets jack be the star of the show; leading them to the red mobi, leading them to safety when they put the red mobi in self-destruct. jack even suggests that vert's team - not vert himself, by the way - could be jack's pit crew; not equals, not teammates, but they're good enough to be jack's little entourage while he goes tearing through the battle zone and playing hero. (when vert replies that his team already have jobs, jack immediately pivots and makes it about himself again.)
and that leads us to jack's sense of ownership and entitlement. i don't remember him calling vert by name throughout the episode (? could be wrong.) just 'kid' or 'son', which if you'll allow me to overanalyze, cutely strips vert eNTIRELY of an identity outside of being jack's son. jack likes the idea of A son; he doesn't like vert. i can't imagine that their homelife had been much better. paired with vert's continued pushback on being called a kid, demanding jack recognize that he's a very competent, capable, supported adult (or at the very least grown up,) it shows that there was likely a lot of arguments over the same issue: jack resenting that vert is free-spirited and didn't want to listen to him.
i probably don't have to explain this to anyone, but that complex mix of ownership-resentment-entitlement and guilt read a lot to me like vert was jack's second chance of reliving his glory days. a lot of the times jack was bragging about him fighting off bad guys, destroying red sentient tech, surviving on his own, it felt like jack was both reliving glory days and making new ones - a life with no familial responsibility, just him and his car against the world. how his life could've gone as some hotshot hero who found a greater purpose beyond drag racing.
and that's without getting into how ungrateful he is throughout the episode. he doesn't think agura for winching up his car, doesn't thank any of them for saving him. again, the hint that vert's team should be jack's, that vert isn't cut out for the kind of lifestyle they're both currently living. downplaying any of vert's own achievements or applicable skills, brushing off any of the technology that would help him - and even gets a self-affirming moment where he beats the hell out of the red mobi with a socket wrench to prove it. he goes out of his way to avoid team set ups because the expectation is that he's the leader and everyone else should fall in line. the only times he acknowledges the bf5 is when they're complimenting him or giving him an opportunity to boast. (unfortunately, sherman and spinner both accidentally do this.)
on the other side of this, vert doesn't seem all that attached to his dad either. there's an element of care and concern there, but that's because vert's actually hero material: he cares for the lives of others, and upon learning that this man (who happens to be his father) has been alone in a battle zone fighting for his life for years, vert wants to help him get home. it should parallel vert's compassion for tezz and the patience vert showed in helping tezz trust them and be willing to leave the battle zone he's come to know like the back of his hand.
but vert looking at his dad throughout the episode is different. i always really enjoyed that there was so much care and effort put into minor details like facial expressions, body language and gestures, and making sure no one looked static when a scene was only focused on one character - so i am aware i might be reading too much into this part, but vert is never fucking happy about his dad being here. he smiles a few times towards the end, after that "i just hurt your feelings but im going to hug you now and you're going to act like things are okay" 'bonding moment' they had after jack lost his temper. most of the time vert looks fed up, upset, or once or twice (made me laugh) kind of disgusted, especially when jack gave him the first hug at the start of the episode.
and this is without delving into:
1) the fact that jack was literally lying about not being able to tell how long it was since he'd been home two seconds later, is able to accurately tell how long it's been since tors-10's arena was blown up. it was like he was testing how easy it'd be for vert to forgive him if he garnered sympathy.
2) the fact that any affection or "i'm proud of you" was manipulative and insincere, used either as a distraction or to try and force vert into accepting affection (that he was clearly not familiar with, time apart or not.)
2.5) LMAO when every time jack was being a dick, he'd made vert step away from the group for a second to express it, because he likes perfoming as some cool guy in front of vert's friends.
3) any casual repossession of anything vert has spent the years making his own ("keep my toolbench clean for me", like vert's some errand boy who'll wait hand and foot for him - maybe reflecting how jack used to expect vert, and his mother, to act at home.)
obviously a lot of this is my interpretation, i understand that the time this show came out, how things can be simplified for the core demographic consumption, and the fact that this was a lot to try (and fail) to unpack in a single episode probably made 'legacy' one of the looser ends left untied by the time the show was cancelled. maybe they'd been planning to explore it more, i know we see jack at the end of the montage cutting to everyone's pov so it implies he survived and maybe would've eventually found his way home.
and some of my gripes are from a lack of suspension of belief - waaa i'm being too cynical about a kid's show, i'm taking some of these points too seriously, etc. but that's how i like consuming media. hopefully i haven't sounded too aggressive throughout, because i do find what i've explained above ^ to be very interesting for vert's character. i wasn't aware that fandom played with jack much at all, so it was also interesting to learn what the general consensus is.
my opinion is this: jack's an asshole. he's a flawed human being with skewed priorities (INSANE that he looked vert in the eye and said "a man's gotta have priorities" about his car, and not his son, btw i laughed so fucking hard watching that the first time.)
and wow that took forever, i'll keep this part about my hc short. this is what happens when someone tells me to yap instead of draw sorry anon
in my hc: jack is born in the '50s, (boomer generation.) they're in utah, he was a bit of a playboy who was getting into racing in his free time, had a beautiful mustang to show for it. the culture is mormon, working class, he grew up during the uranium booms and the peak of ranching lifestyle where you could live off the land, and live modestly but earnestly. then he knocks up marlene. the expectation is that you settle down and get married quick. you work, you pay the bills, you put food on the table, and you do that 'til you die. it's rough! i'm not saying isn't.
jack had to give up his racing dreams. maybe he thought he was gonna move out to golden california, make something of himself, be more than what he ended up being. but now he's got a kid and he wasn't quite ready to be a parent, but jack does the right thing: he knuckles down, works hard, looks after his family. but that wistfulness lingers.
and it's convenient, y'know, having a son. small and young and impressionable, just a little nudge and suddenly vert's loving cars and going fast (had a draw to it himself naturally, but jack can't help himself to give vert just the slightest nudge.) and before he knows it, he's living his second chance vicariously through vert; that's a lot of pressure on a kid. especially when that kid is as willful, stubborn, and outspoken as both his parents and isn't afraid to talk back.
i don't think that jack was physically abusive - consistently. it's an older era. vert probably got smacked a few times when he was young and unruly, but once he was big enough to fend for himself, the verbal arguments became much more frequent. especially as vert grows up, goes off on his own.
what differs from canon is that i don't think jack ever rode off on his own. i hc that they don't live originally in handler's corner, either - that's somewhere in the bonneville flats that vert escapes to on his own; that's his own little corner of the world that he has away from his parents once he's old enough. because i agree that jack, in his own complicated way, does love his family, so he stays: he's a selfish fucker who doesn't appreciate his wife and thinks his kid is an ungrateful rotten brat, but he stays. he works. he eventually retires.
and vert moves out at 17. it's the worst fight they've ever had, i won't go on too much about it here since this is about jack, not vert. but. vert gets to leave and live his own life, and that makes jack very bitter and jealous. because vert both gets to have the life jack wanted, and doesn't have to make the same sacrifices jack did. (hence the complicated relationship with aj, too, where aj was a very good influence on vert when they were friends in-person, and jack could've easily seen aj turning out to be the kind of son that jack was expected to have: someone down to earth, willing to put in the work. because as much as he's jealous that vert gets to live the life jack wanted, too, there's the part where jack gets a bad rep in their small hometown because vert ended up being such a reckless wildcard for a son. and that stings.)
there's not much else to talk about headcanon-wise since i still draw a lot of jack's characterization from how he was in the episode (or my interpretation of the episode), there's just a few different setting details that are different. i really didn't like the cyclical structure of vert ending up being involved in bf5 the exact way his dad got involved with tors-10 - i think it strips away a lot of vert's integrity as a character. there are definitely points to be made about he and jack's similarities, but there needs to be enough distinction to let vert be his own person, not just a shadow of his father.
definitely fun source of inner turmoil for vert. rubs hands together like a fly. i do very much enjoy vert having a lot of angst over both looking and sharing traits with his father, but anyway,,
ty for coming to my ted talk i hope my walkthrough of 'legacy' as coherent and understandable
also i didnt proof read sorry if theres errors lmao
def not the same anon. but what do you think of aj and vert? i love him how u draw him in that sketch btw, he looks so squishable i wanna squish him
other anons using my friends bit and now i feel like im a lost child in a superstore running up to the wrong adult i mistook for my parent /lh
just to avoid talking in circles i yapped about him and vert here but im assuming this question is more about ship potential (?) can you tell i have awful reading comprehension.
aj is very squishy !!! human version of a stress ball. i don't think vert had a lot of friends growing up because he lived in such a remote area, and then was aggressively competing with anyone in his age group once he started street racing. he was a very rough kid, got a taste for adrenaline young and chased it mostly by racing in a modded car but definitely wasn't shy to picking fights that he couldn't always win.
(i'm aware that it's implied vert goes up to canada and meets aj there, but i hc the opposite due to thematic purposes of making vert miserable.) so when aj first crosses paths with vert somewhere in nowhere, utah, it's one of the first genuine connections vert has with someone who's really listening to him and emotionally supporting him in a way that's... entirely foreign, because it's a) not the culture vert's grown up with, b) 'emotions' weren't something his parents ever really worked through, c) vert's had 14 years of being treated like some no good kid on the fast track to dying too soon. he's never been taken seriously.
and aj, middle child extraordinaire, patron saint of 'doing things how i want to, since no one's watching me anyway', cuts right through all of vert's hurting and angry teen angst like it's butter. in the years that they get to keep an in-person relationship, aj is a huge buffer between vert and... essentially the rest of the world, but namely vert's dad. aj is kind but firm, well-mannered, takes a scolding on the nose without fuss (and immediately rolls his eyes once an adult's back is turned,) the kind of 'well rounded' kid anyone in the '80s would want. someone sturdy, capable, and reliable, etc. everything vert isn't.
(vert's relationship with his dad is so fucked up that vert doesn't actually feel resentment for the fact that aj turned out to be the kid his dad expected of him. jack's got a lot of wants and desires and expectations; vert's living the life jack wanted, but aj's living the life jack was demanded to have and was expected to continue the cycle of. but that's more about jack and vert, so i digress.)
aj and vert's friendship is so solid. i imagine there's a couple noteworthy events that brought them closer, an almost death in canyonlands or vert showing up in aj's bedroom window after curfew. it all comes back to aj being, for a long time, the only safe place vert ever knew.
aj's own parents aren't the best in the world but they're not bad people, just busy and financially struggling with three kids in a dying economy. so they do what they think is best, move back to canada so his dad can chase the work opportunities up there, and aj has to go with them.
aj cries when he breaks the news, and vert waits until aj is gone to cry himself. awful, gutting, heartwrenching period of their lives, but they try and stay in touch. AOL's a no-go even when it comes out because even though aj's got a family computer, vert *doesn't* (his family too poor for it,) so it's old school letters for a long time. sometimes months in between receiving and sending - life updates, future plans, promises to reconnect eventually. '90s is great for them once international phonecalls, especially because they both have jobs by then and can afford the rates.
(and then the next time they meet up in person since almost a decade, vert is inviting aj out to fight alien robots.)
all of this to say, i think they have a very strong emotional foundation that supports a ride-or-die style of friendship. they've been through a lot together, through things that very easily could've set them adrift or had them parting ways from each other, but aj's persistence and willingness to stay even through hard times is everything. getting to see someone you met as a hot-headed brat with nowhere to put his anger grow into someone with confidence in his place in the world, with a newfound patience (and compassion, that'd been deeply buried) has got to be one of the highest rewards, especially to someone like aj who put so much effort into nurturing vert over the years.
i can see romantic potential, but that's more because i think vert is drawn to steady quiet types as a contrast to his own bold outgoing personality. not to insert my fav ship too heavily, but there's a lot of character traits and overlaps across aj and sherman that definitely help me see where aj and vert could have been romantic simply because i think the dynamics would end up being a bit similar. there's just that level of familiarity between aj and vert that would make the transition a lot smoother, maybe quicker because they've had much more time to know each other.
definitely a ship i could see myself enjoying, but sniffle ihum i love vert x sherman so much + i also really enjoy aj and vert as friends. lowkey there's not a lot of ships i feel very strongly towards in the show solely because so much of it (s1, at least) that was geared towards teambonding and development, that i just really enjoyed watching the team dynamics in a platonic angle. aj and vert might not be free from the platonic cage anytime soon but the potential for something more is really cute and fluffy
(... which is also probably why it's not my number one ship. since i can only really do cute and fluffy in small doses.)
i was gonna insert some doodles here but im at work, so ill make sure to draw aj later because oh my GOD i cant leave him as a cardboard cut out i feel so bad doing him so dirty
Any headcanons of vert and zoom? I think they're neat brothers but some ppl ship them & i get it. I just see zoom too much as the lil bro
definitely agree that vert and zoom are more like brothers to me.
part of that might just be because of the age difference; i hc zoom's the baby of the group at around only 19-20 years old, and while it's not even a 'problematic' age gap between he and vert (25), their differences in maturity and just where they are in life is significant enough that romance isn't on the table imo, even putting aside my ship preferences.
also full transparency i'm ignoring any episode related to zoom's backstory and the order of the flying fists cus i personally didn't feel like incorporating it into his character, so that might change my view of him.
zoom's pretty young and impressionable, in a transitional phase of his life between highschool and college, etc. he's suddenly in this new environment and fixates on vert like a duckling because vert is this older and friendly figure who's super cool and pulling tricks in his suped up hotrod, speed racer enough to be considered a bit of a rebel but not crossing the line into someone who's truly dangerous. perfect material for a kid who's fresh out of high school to look up to.
zoom wants to be cool and liked by the people around him. we see it in plenty of episodes where his hero-worship has him copying the stunts vert pulls off during missions in the zones, or doing tricks on his own to try and get vert's attention and recognition. agura has to collar vert a few times and tell him to reel it in - and how vert reacts is what kind of solidifies the dynamic for me.
vert doesn't want to keep impressing zoom. it's fun, sure, and he gets his own thrill out of being a cocky little stuntman in his car - but he's had years of experience, and has plenty of different places he can zip off to and do those things. he doesn't need an audience; vert does those things because he's a bit of an adrenaline junky and gets his satisfaction solely from being reckless - not being reckless to impress an audience.
so when vert is told that his actions have impacts on zoom - when vert is confronted with the fact that there's a kid whose safety depends on his own sensibility, vert acts responsibly. lessens the tricks he pulls off, or starts waiting until he's 'alone' to pull a risky maneouver. he is much more mindful of where zoom is positioned, especially because zoom is on a much more dangerous vehicle that won't protect him if he fucks up (zoom should've been dead SO many times as it is.)
to me, neither of these behaviors (from zoom or from vert) are reflective of people who are crushing on each other. especially vert's reaction: that's someone who's mature enough to take responsibility for their actions and think outside of themselves when it comes to the safety of others. zoom's hero-worship of vert is really cute and i think it adds a certain charm to their dynamic, but i don't think it's a crush either. zoom's idolization of vert feels very much like "i think you're cool, i want you to think im cool, and i can't decide if i want to be you when i'm older".
obviously, as vert and zoom's friendship develops, i think a big part of vert's role is introducing a sense of independence and individuality in zoom. seeing vert as a rolemodel is always going to be there because that's what happens when you care about someone who is your first mental image of what adulthood is going to look like on you, even if it's not what you turn out like later.
vert and zoom's friendship to me captures an element of 'boyhood' that is somehow more sibling-like than how sherman and spinner are portrayed, in a lot of ways. similar to vert and aj's relationship. they have a lot of ups and downs, especially as zoom starts becoming more independent and forming his own ideas, which probably makes vert grow a few gray hairs.
zoom's definitely just,,, everyone's little brother, given his interactions with other members like agura, stanford, sometimes with sherman. while i don't think zoom feels a sense of 'family' with the team (more so a group of older friends he looks up to,) vert's definitely someone he'd call an older brother figure if vert wasn't around to hear it. i could be wrong but it just doesn't feel like he's really focused on romance or have an interest in people in that way yet.
hoping i dont sound like im infantilizing zoom or anything, but yeah. lil bro type. and vert's too much of a bleeding heart to shirk that responsibility
