@pscentral event 37: color challenge ↳ THE HUNGER GAMES: THE BALLAD OF SONGBIRDS AND SNAKES (2023) dir. Francis Lawrence
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@districtxii
@pscentral event 37: color challenge ↳ THE HUNGER GAMES: THE BALLAD OF SONGBIRDS AND SNAKES (2023) dir. Francis Lawrence
who could know me to my soul?
who would want to?
Haven't drawn these guys since I was 12...
the snowjanus! edit
screencaps from kissthemgoodbye
Can I just say how much I like the design of the Academy uniforms in the movie?
We get the impression from the book that the Academy dress is based on older western standards of formal dress attire, with Coriolanus trying to wear ill-fitting dress shoes which are, understandably, not part of the issued uniform since they would need to be replaced more often.
I don't have deep insights about the costume design or my perception of its history, particularly about the accuracy of any of my thoughts, but I think it really works with the idea of Panem being a futuristic but reconstructed, post-apocalyptic society.
They hold America as a more recent but still-distant regime from which they're cherry-picking elements , just as they are with their recovered knowledge of Ancient Rome. They are people who have managed to obtain power and are trying to use everyone else's old homework to get it right to maintain that power and control.
I like that it reflects both conservatism and a kind of attempt toward progressive gender equality by including what used to be defining gender differentiating clothing as overlapping clothing for both young men and women. It feels like someone reenacting something or play-acting something which they have understood and partially understand or which they might have misunderstood.
I just have to wonder about the in-universe development of such an outfit, since it largely doesn't seem to be reflected by the style of dress in the Capitol as of the time of TBOSAS before the Capitol had quite returned to a freer sense of indulgence, consumerism, and prosperity as of Katniss's time.
(glancing around in mild bemusement)
Seriously, people. Where do you think we even got the word "sponsor" from?
In its original usage it meant a guarantor: someone who promised you that you were going to get something out of what they were doing.
Throwing a ludus / game or a series of games was expensive. Local (or national) Roman politicians put down good money to pay for the rental of the event space (you think the Colosseum was cheap to rent? Think again. The Imperials who built it liked to make their money back...), the wages (and overtime!) of the hundreds of venue support staff, the fees required by the fighting talent and the schools that owned them (or their own management, if they were free), and so forth.
Whoever was footing the bill for a given Game (or sequence of Games) was formally known by the title sponsor, and got to parade around the arena at the beginning of the game to remind people in the stands just who was fulfilling their civic duty by throwing this entertainment for them. The message was, "I'm doing something for you. Next election, don't forget to do something for me!"
And it was always political. Never lose sight of that. (Especially when a local political party promises to build you a nice new stadium if you elect them. The more some things change, the more they stay the same...)
(cc: @petermorwood) 😏
thinking about how in spanish the name “Sejanus” is pronounced different than in english - the /a/ is pronounced like a short a sound, so it’s something like “Se/jah/nus/“ instead of “Se/jã/nus” like in english
and going with the headcanon that the Plinths are spanish speaking latinos, I’m thinking about Sejanus getting sad that no one in the Capitol can pronounce his name in the correct way. not like he would ever correct them (what’s the point?), but it’s yet another thing about his heritage and identity that he’s lost since leaving D2.
the only person who still pronounces his name correctly is his Ma, his father switching to the Capitol pronunciation since they moved there, even when they’re home. sometimes, when he’s caught off guard, Strabo would call him Sejahnus, with his real District 2 accent, and Sejanus would get happy for a moment, before Strabo catches himself and goes back to pretending to be Capitol, even in the privacy of their home.
Thoughts upon finishing The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes
Spoilers unmarked ahead as it's been out for a while and the title of the post warns for them.
As I've mentioned in my other few posts about it so far, I came into TBOSAS as a movie-only watcher despite having been a book-first person back when the original Hunger Games films came out.
I've got to say that when I heard the idea of a prequel about President Snow which included a love story, my tumblr-raised self wasn't particularly interested. I remember seeing the book display at Walmart when it first came out and not really having time or interest at the time.
However, the movie trailer caught my attention, and I'm really glad that it did.
I am happy that TBOSAS, while having a single POV character in Snow, switched from first person narration to third person. I remember reading meta years ago that I wholeheartedly agree with. While one can make the argument that the "blindspots" one gets in the original trilogy themselves make a point, having a slightly more zoomed out, third person point of view just feels better for the scope of the story. As an English teacher, I can't help but feel like it's a little more mature, too.
But without the movie, I still don't know if I would have ever picked up this book in audio or visual format.
Funnily enough, looking back on the first four Hunger Games movies, I actually don't like them as much as I like the books for the most part. The visuals are good in parts, but I do not like the casting philosophy that was used. I sort of hope that we are around long enough to see remakes as a prestige miniseries or something like that.
Back to thoughts on TBOSAS: I remember seeing a few kind of poorly produced (sorry lol) thinkpieces on websites like ScreenRant that were insisting that you weren't getting the full picture from the movie, that the movie made Snow too sympathetic, that you have to understand he's a monster because he views Lucy Gray in an objectifying manner or because he gets Sejanus killed.
I think that those takes have a point. However, I think that they also miss the nuance of the narrative, and I am not even suggesting that the prose is particularly deep or esoteric. Just that people love to be reactionary.
What I saw in Snow's character throughout the book was someone who was warring with various philosophical and personal dilemmas without having anyone he ever really trusted to talk through it.
There are moments with Lucy Gray and with Sejanus when Coryo almost opens up completely. When he has real conversations with them. But, like Katniss, he is a traumatized person who has a lot of baggage which makes him strategize and behave defensively with every decision he makes.
If anything, Coryo is LESS closed off than Katniss is at first throughout most of the story.
I couldn't source it, but I distinctly remember reading someone suggest that they believed that Coriolanus became irredeemable when he got Sejanus killed. However, reading through his internal conflict about the decision to snitch on him was one of the times when I found Coriolanus the most human and relatable. He was torn in every direction. He is someone who is deeply propagandized into a fascist regime whose family has a personal narrative of power and meaning within that regime. He also believes that the Capitol is necessary and better than the alternative. He wants Sejanus to survive and to change his mind. He wants him to stop putting himself in danger. He wants him to stop implicating Coriolanus by association. And yet, Coriolanus does feel responsible and tied to him, however much he hates it.
Coriolanus defends himself from emotional attachment and the cost of loving anyone, romantically or platonically, as a defense mechanism.
It isn't until he works himself into a frenzy and narrates what Lucy Gray must be thinking out at the lake in the end that he finds himself so utterly alone in his own head that he has no choice in his mind except to give into his colder side that he associates with his father, the Capitol, and ruthlessness.
Interestingly, a running theme throughout the book - without ever being explicitly stated in these exact words - is that Coriolanus is irreligious and doesn't believe in gods, rituals, or an afterlife. Every time someone brings up the stars or fate or performs some kind of ritual associated with passing on an even in the scene where Lucy Gray sings about the hereafter and therebefore, he can't help but internally scoff at the idea. He holds himself as more enlightened than those who believe in such superstitions.
But then, when he is all alone and trying to navigate his way back to District 12 with his father's compass, he starts to believe that there is some kind of spiritual guidance and blessing from his father, whom he never even felt close to except as an idea.
I think that Coriolanus's internal journey is an exploration of opposites and the divide that Lucy Gray describes and how evil is rarely even a boundary over which one cannot cross back into good from. It's just that, at a certain point, Coriolanus cannot bear the weight of his own guilt and misgivings if he ever turns back to a "better" path.
On the subject of Lucy Gray: I've got to say that I thought the book was effective in showing Lucy Gray as someone with dimension and depth that Coriolanus saw glimpses of but never really fully understood. Had he stayed with her and not needed "civilization" so much, I believe he would have learned to see her as more and more of a full person. However, the way she is written in the book, it is really hard for me to get a mental image of her at all.
Again, I think that this is perhaps intentional as a part of this format of the story. However, I find that I appreciate Rachel Ziegler's portrayal of Lucy Gray so much because without it, I'm not sure I would find that much to emotionally invest in. This is actually quite the opposite, as I like my mental image of Katniss far more than JLaw's portrayal lol.
Anyway, those are my wrap-up thoughts.
The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes - SnowBaird 100x100 icons
Making icons primarily for dreamwidth, so they're 100x100 pixels, but you can use them. Due to their size, they will appear pixelated when zoomed in on the post, but if you right-click and look at the images themselves, they have been sharpened and optimized for appearance at 100x100. If you feel like giving credit or interacting with the post, I would appreciate it!
Coriolanus and Rationalizing Evil
This post is sort of reading/listening journal for my consumption of The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes in audiobook form. It focuses on my growing understanding of Coriolanus as a character and how it differs from my expectations going in. I'm not finished with the audiobook yet, but it contains potential spoilers up the 9 hour in mark.
So, I've been distracted by work and a few other fandoms for my attention, but I got back to the audiobook of TBOSAS today as someone who watched the movie first. (I read the original trilogy before the movies back in college, but being an adult, I'm far less patient for books. Furthermore, because of unstable living circumstances, I don't particularly want the extra weight of having books to bring, though a part of me misses having a lot of books. In that way, the audiobook has been a lifesaver.)
Anyway, from YouTube and tumblr comments, I was anticipating that the books would twist my stomach at how terrible and psychopathic Coriolanus would be. People kept saying in various clickbait articles that the movie adaptation "ruined" his character by not allowing the audience to see the internal, wicked machinations of Coriolanus from the narration.
To my surprise, that's not the case at all for me.
For reference, I've most recently paused at 9:21:24 in the audiobook. Coriolanus is dejected at the fact that Mr. Plinth didn't offer him money as a reward for saving Sejanus.
What I am noticing, rather than someone who was born broken and beyond help (as I find is the case with many 'psychopathic' people from true crime podcasts that I often listen to), I find that Coriolanus is someone who is deeply traumatized and trying to rationalize his way into the callousness of psychopathy/sociopathy/simple apathy, or whatever you want to call it.
(Another side-note to come back to: I was absolutely stunned and fascinated by the revelation that Dr. Gaul started out as a medical doctor in obstetrics. I wonder if the narrative will loop back around to that, because damn. I want to know if she started out as a sort of ~angel of death~ medical practitioner, as serial killers in the medical profession are often dubbed, or if something broke her about the war. I want to know!!! Btw broad strokes spoilers for things I haven't read yet don't bother me! But if no one tells me, I guess I'll find out if it comes up again.)
Tigris, of course, seems to see the best in people, but more than once she has commented on how from her perspective Coriolanus wouldn't hurt a fly as a child. She seems to have admired his mother and disliked his father, and she is trying to encourage him to be the best version of himself.
Even back in the original trilogy, I notice that Collins seems to use parents less as full people than as humanoid Symbols for different influences of society. Katniss and Peeta's mothers are the most human-seeming of the parents, but even they exist as sorts of dichotomies and push-pull between two different aspects of society and their overlap through love triangles and disappointed desires. Katniss's mother is a pretty good image of depression and abuse-by-neglect-without-malice, which is a complex human condition, but the way the narratives treat them makes them seem more distant than the younger characters.
If we take it that Tigris isn't totally making up any innate reluctance toward harm that one might consider "good" or even "natural" in people before they are pushed to their breaking points, and I think we should assume that because of Coriolanus's own internal struggles with himself, then I do not see a boy/young man who does not care about other people, either on the macro level or the interpersonal level.
It is striking to me that Tigris and Coriolanus and others frequently use the world "children" when talking about the Capitol teenagers, and sometimes about the District "kids," but the teenagers -- even in the Capitol -- have some degree of adult responsibility placed on their shoulders. Well, I guess that's mostly true for Coriolanus due to his lack of parents and experience of poverty. However, it is still strange that this is juxtaposed with the way someone like Lucy Gray obviously isn't seen as a child, particularly by Coriolanus's grandmother. There is the ongoing suggestion that, especially as women, Lucy Gray and/or Tigris may have needed to engage in some sort of sex work to survive, though this is never made explicit. Furthermore, Grandma'am specifically says that Lucy Gray hasn't been a child for a long time. Furthermore, I think the weight of Lucy Gray using the word "lover" to refer to her past with Billy Taupe is intended to drive this reality home without ever needing to spell it out in black and white.
Coriolanus tries to think of himself as a child when he is in a state of high distress. Furthermore, he often thinks of his classmates' calling out for or waiting for their parents in times of need. Something he cannot do.
Coriolanus demonstrates a capable intellect, and he has been using it to mask poverty, suffering, and disadvantage for most of his life. However, he seems to genuinely care for most of his classmates as friends.
When I read others' meta analyses of the book or others comparisons of the book to the movie, I was expecting that Coriolanus would be someone who was unable to view other people as real people. I was expecting to read about someone who struggled to convince themselves that they had the emotions that are experienced by others. Someone who was, as I said earlier, born broken.
That is not what I find at all.
Instead, as I think I've read in other posts, Coriolanus reminds me a little bit of Katniss. They are both people who are dealing with dissociation and suspicion toward other people as the result of trauma, post-traumatic stress, and a lack of the safety nets that others may take for granted even in the midst of poverty and deprivation.
Of course, knowing how it ends, Coriolanus finally finds a way to "let the dark side win," or whatever. The devil of Dr. Gaul talking into his ear about the nature of humanity is something that he finally comes to embrace. I haven't gotten there yet.
But the thing is, Coriolanus's callous nature most demonstrates itself in the way that he views Sejanus. He calls his demonstrations of "civility" toward Sejanus just that and nothing more. It is obvious that he does this because he resents certain things about who Sejanus is. However, he has been taught to resent the fact that he is from the Districts and rising above his station while Coriolanus's family is falling from their birthright of grace.
What I feel there is an undercurrent of, however, is that Coriolanus distances himself from Sejanus with his rational mind while his emotions tend to cause himself to align himself with Sejanus. This is not a particular statement of shippy feelings, though I don't blame people who see it that way, and if you can use my thoughts to further your shipping manifesto/justification, knock yourselves out!
I was just really stricken with how Coriolanus handled the realization that everything Sejanus chooses to do, even things Coriolanus things are embarrassing, risky, and dangerous, are motivated by doing the right thing.
Early on in the book, Coriolanus indicates that he began to treat Sejanus with civility because it was beneath the dignity of a Snow to treat him as lesser and with disdain simply because he was from the Districts. However, later in the book, it is obvious that Coriolanus's father would not have held the same sentiment. His father was a "District-hating" man, and even with his spotty memories of his father, he is aware of this description as part of his character.
Rather, it seems like Sejanus is the stage for Coriolanus's internal morality play.
He is drawn to doing the right thing. He enjoys the shining silver lining that people could want to be good, even when it doesn't benefit them. Even when choosing to be good would disadvantage them. However, he is terrified of his prospect because the veil of seeming to be more privileged than he is is like a form of armor for Coriolanus.
Drawing back to the parallels between Katniss and Coriolanus, I remember that Katniss went to great lengths to mask her mother's neglect because, apparently, even out in District 12 there was something like social services that may have taken Katniss and Prim away from their mother had the neglect and starvation been apparent enough. However, Katniss considered the Capitol's administration of "child protection" to have been worse than remaining in the Seam and dealing with living on the knife's edge of poverty and starvation on her own.
Coriolanus is much the same, even in a less obviously dangerous position. In fact, his motivation to hide the danger he is in is even greater because he has "more to lose" in some ways. Not only would be lose his position in society and access to food and opportunity for a better life, but he would also lose his sense of identity. In some ways, it's hard to say which one is worse. Katniss, on the other hand, has a hard time defining her sense of self and self worth, but that's a different post.
In some ways, Sejanus's opportunities and the idea that he is "replacing" Coriolanus in terms of station in society is a natural source of envy for Coriolanus. However, he rarely directly acknowledges this envy. Rather, he tries to find ways to pity Sejanus without allowing (or admitting?) any sense of emotional attachment to him.
But, as the saying goes, sometimes actions speak louder than words.
It seems to me that Coriolanus is, at least thus far in the book, drawn into acting in ways that align himself morally with Sejanus. However, he resents this, because his life thus far has taught him the propaganda of the Capitol about the people of the Districts and the cold pragmatism that, in theory, best assures survival. He resents how opening up toward other people, especially people like Sejanus, makes him vulnerable.
People, especially traumatized people, hate being vulnerable.
But Sejanus is like the siren song of having a less Hobbesian view of human nature. Sejanus represents the belief that treating other humans with dignity and decency is the baseline for a functioning society. He holds this view openly while people like Highbottom can only suggest this in ways that confuse and anger Coriolanus because he perceives their presentation as a resentment of and threat toward him.
Again, actions speak louder than words.
Another thing that makes me think this is an accurate reading of what Coriolanus is going through is the way he participates in Sejanus's laughter when he is sent in to get him in the Arena. Of course, Coriolanus has plenty of internal justifications for why he is doing what he is doing. He is, of course, motivated to survive. He is making pragmatic decisions that Sejanus himself refuses to make. Given the chance, he wouldn't have gone in after him, because Coriolanus is, at minimum at this point, not as good a person as Sejanus is (though I could write more on how guilt and self-destruction are not necessarily demonstrations of moral character). It is not necessarily evil not to be totally self-sacrificial. However, when he is given no choice but to go in and do this, he doesn't take the quickest path of least resistance. He rationalizes his way through it, as he's trying to rationalize his way through everything, but when Sejanus comments on how Coriolanus can't stop saving him, he laughs.
There is no narrative detail to indicate that this is a forced laugh or a calculated response, as so many of Coriolanus's demonstrations of emotion or lack thereof are. Instead, he laughs, and it's just a description of basic action, and this indicates that, perhaps, he is not being honest with himself about who or what Sejanus is to him, rather than that we should take it as absolute truth that he does not care about him at this point in the narrative.
I could be proven wrong by finishing the book, but as I said... actions sometimes speak louder than words.
snowbaird ending applied to another... "ship"???
Putting this here because I can.
The first time I watched The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, I went in blind except my past obsession with the original trilogy of books and watching the films. While I was watching it and getting increasingly invested, my fandom cross-pollination thoughts drifted to Jujutsu Kaisen and how I wanted to read something about Fushiguro and Sukuna that paralleled the end of the story.
I am totally content with Itadori/Fushiguro and them getting a happily-ever-after (as if that's even possible in canon anymore lmao).
But part of me also wants Sukuna's obsession with Fushiguro to have been more interesting than just wanting him as a vessel to tamp down and take over for his cooler powers and different spirit. I want JJK characters to actually have emotional follow-through that isn't power creep and misery, damn it.
But I don't think Sukuna needs a happy ending. He could have one, if he becomes a good boy (that's right~) but, like, I would love to just see him driven mad by his own obsession while Fushiguro manages to overcome him regardless of what becomes of him. Y'know.
I just... felt the need to put this into words somewhere in case anyone on earth shares these two interests. Please talk to me if so.
Tigris and Nominative Determinism
I have been listening to the audiobook of TBOSAS after thinking the movie would be enough for me due to general adult can't-be-assed kind of feelings. However, I ended up getting sucked in.
When Tigris cooking some meat and making her patty smaller than that for Coriolanus and Grandmam is brought up, Coryo assuages his guilt over her apparent sacrifice because he knows she sneaks little bites of raw meat while cooking. That she craves it.
With that plus the various other names-inform-character choices in the books, I wonder how much Collins is intentionally suggesting that names help determine a person or if it's due to intentional choices on the characters' parts.
We know that eventually Tigris hyper-identifies with her name to the point of taking on the aesthetic of the animal. Presumably with eating raw meat when she can safely, too. Katniss is someone who is resourceful, unusual, and represents survival. Peeta being obliquely related to bread ends up being sustenance while Gale is unwittingly destructive and so on.
Anyone is free to share thoughts!