fandom-drama-side-blog

[ahiwicave]

another discord drama post

Hi, Hiwi here. One of the mods from the Nevermore Discord server. You may recognize my name because I was put on blast and accused of some heinous things in the whole drama. I didn’t want a tumblr and didn’t want to have to do this, but I see some people are never going to let it go. Just to share some thoughts, from someone who was actually involved in everything:

Crimson did stuff in a side server, and the mod team acted swiftly in the moment we learned of it, even though it was not done inside the server we were modding

Months after an appeal was considered. The original evidence was tampered with, and the person who originally shared it with a third party was banned later for harassing and baiting other users with alts. This included being blatantly xenophobic towards me with an alt account.

The mod team (not Red) decided that a probation period could be extended since we had no other witnesses to inquire about it. 

Crimson came back, and this caused a lot of new witnesses to come out publicly. We were shocked when so many people had new information about this, as we had only the aforementioned evidence to go off of beforehand

Crimson was banned again within the hour. No NSFW was ever shared in the Nevermore Discord.

That should’ve been it, really. A lesson learned for the mod team. But it was not enough for some people.

The tumblr call out came long after the situation had been dealt with. The drama was exaggerated, with tons of misinformation and downright savage hate, blaming Red for things she never did or never were about her. Lots of people who had issues before (and unrelated to the Crimson situation) jumped on the chance to continue their beef, adding a lot of noise and ridiculous accusations, muddying the waters for everyone. 

Red was not the person who took the decisions for any of this, and shouldn't have been held accountable for something that happened outside our scope. People should've used the proper Discord channels to report Crimson’s  behavior happening outside the Nevermore server. Discord is the only entity that can truly stop an account in every server, actually keeping everyone safe. Every social media has the option to report accounts, and getting those people completely off the platform is way more effective than just removing them from a single server. 

Still, Red apologized. People that don't think it's a good apology are people that are still blaming Red for things she didn't do.

Red’s apology had a lot of context, because people decided to take everything outside of Discord and paint it in the worst possible light. A lot of people commenting were posing like innocent bystanders adding to the flames, when in reality they were already involved, and it was necessary to point them out.

Sharing the discord nicknames of people involved is not putting anyone in danger, no matter what their age is. It's not any real name or address. The same people claiming this puts them in danger had apparently no fear of confirming "yes that's me” when the information given was not getting tied back to them.

This whole tumblr thing highlighted how Red and Flynn shouldn’t be trying to mod the community, which has grown a lot more than we expected when the server was first created. They wisely decided to step back to focus on just creating Nevermore.

So Red and Flynn decided to step out, leaving the modding to over 10 people. They've not participated in the mod decisions taken since the server reopened with a new mod team, over a month ago.

Many of the people involved in the Tumblr callouts and harassment were allowed back into the server, despite publicly participating in smearing the server, the creators, and me. 

The new mod team is still figuring out the best way to mod a community this big. We want to prioritize safety while still having a chill atmosphere people can enjoy. 

The reopening brought changes to the rules and the security in the server. This included taking on onboarding, as well as required phone verification, and new rules about modding outside issues.

We started with the strict policy of no ban will be appealed. This is because giving people second chances is what caused the Crimson situation. It will probably be revisited as we continue learning and deciding what's the best approach to mod the community.

People that were involved in the tumblr discourse continued breaking the rules inside the server. We want to move on from this and letting it fester inside the server would not allow the community to heal and grow. They were warned, and a lot of them continued trying to bait for more drama, so then we banned them. There is no such thing as “banned without reason”, just “banned for a reason the user doesn’t agree with”. 

Banned people are not owed explanations or second chances. If there is no appeal, there is no reason to discuss it further with them. If you’ve been banned from a space, you’re not a good match for it. I personally would not like to go back to a place that banned me, for whatever reason. Being banned is not the end of the world, the community is far bigger than the discord server and your friends exist outside of it, too. 

It's truly mind blowing to learn tumblr is at it again. We removed Crimson immediately, Red and Flynn are no longer modding, the mod team tripled in size, there is more security in the server, and we’re actively working on making things better and opened everything up for suggestions from the users in the Discord. We’re all doing our best to avoid a situation like Crimson happening ever again.  

People who publicly claimed to leave the fandom and left/were banned from the server continue being hung up on it. Please move on. You've said multiple times how much you don't like it here. You don't want to be here, we don't want you here. Stop spreading your toxicity in a tag where people just want to move on and enjoy fan content.

You are allowed to stop supporting or enjoying anything for whatever reason. No one is forcing you to remain in the Nevermore community. 

You don’t have to ruin it for everyone on the way out. Turning on other people and harassing bystanders just because they don’t join your hate train is wild. 

Stop blaming Red and Flynn for the actions of a mod team. Your personal vendetta against creators that are just trying to write a story you claimed to enjoy is getting out of hand. Please move on, for your own mental health and everyone else’s. 

I will go back to Discord now, I just wanted to clear up some things for anyone getting bombarded by the misinformation. I hope this is the last of irrelevant Discord stuff muddying up this tag, and you all can go back to enjoying art, theories, and memes.

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

To everyone who fallowed this for fandom drama your not getting any more posts from me.

I got that out of my system over a month ago and it left me emotionally drained.

[conscience-grim]

fuck rnf and hiwi for unbanning a proven pedophile and allowing people to talk about nsfw in public. ive been on the server since it opened and theyve consistently sexualised rape and racism for years lmfao

i do still enjoy nevermore as a concept and ill be doing a full rewrite of it

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Look, when that happened RnF did not have all the information that they do now. They unbanned that person because to them the screen shots they had went through several people, where heavily censored, and said information came from a person known to start things. Also all the things that they knew happened came from a separate server, not the main one. The person that was banned said it was "a mistake" that they "didn't know the people where minors," they where also 18 or 19, and when talking to the mods about what happened they seemed remorseful and humiliated. The heavily censored screen shots where all they had. Said screen shots came from a person the mods and RnF do not trust. The victims screen names where censored, the images where censored, and they weren't aloud to know the victims screen names so they couldn't corroborate the evidence. With the information the mods had, this sounded like a new adult who mad a dumb mistake, in a server that the mods weren't in.

Then they unbanned the person (after 4 months), and put them on probation. Said person was on thin ice. The back lash caused new evidence to come to light and the person was banned again.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you grossly misrepresented the facts of the case. The way you phrased it made it sound like they knew what was going on. The didn't.

The mods aren't omniscient. They can't know when stuff like this is going down if no one tells them about it. And again, they did not have all the information that they do now. They where doing there best with what they had.

[conscience-grim]

Hi, I'm going to ask you some questions and then respond. Pedophilia, rape and victim blaming under the cut.

Why should a mod team distrust the individual? Is it due to their previous actions? Did the mod team have proof that their previous actions were "stirring up trouble" or were they mentioning valid concerns? Were these concerns minimised by the mod team?

Why does censoring information mean it is less viable, other than lack of correbation?

How did the mod team react? Was it professionally, considering they are an official server? Was it unprofessionally? Was it self-blame? Was it overly emotional?

Secondly, the reason it appears like I "grossly misrepresented the facts of the case" is because I'm not talking about one case. I'm speaking about the ~10 other times similar events (note: not this specific user, I'm glad they were re-banned, and consider that a good thing) was brought up, sometimes years ago. I've known at least 3 reports of pedophiles to the team, and this is the only one that's had a response at all.

I mention Hiwi specifically because they are an adult on the mod team who has a habit of mentioning kinks and rape-play to minors, and explicitly stated that people who are sexually assaulted "secretly wanted it". Red has not banned them because they are her childhood friend, which I believe, personally, is biased.

I mostly hope that, to be blunt, the people involved get help. It's steeped in cult-like behaviour, which is why I've been taking my time away from them.

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Sorry for the previous harsh response. I'm fairly involved in the fandom, and I feel like I have to put out fires at times.

To answer your questions first, the untrustworthy person in question has a habit of baiting in people in to doing things that could get them banned. The fact that the screen shots where censored mean that they could have been edited. The mods didn't trust this person due to their past actions. They did not provide proof, but a lot was going on at the time so I don't blame them for not being able to provide receipts.

Censored information isn't less viable perse, but it was the fact that the person who did the censoring was seen as untrustworthy that made it less viable. Also all the explicit images where censored, so they didn't know the severity of the situation.

They tried to respond to it professionally, but they kept being attacked for what happened before they had all the information and responses became emotional. Though once things cooled down they continued to answer questions for transparency and responses became professional again.

You see, from the way you phrased it, people who don't have knowledge of server history wouldn't interpret it that way. I was unaware of the other things that happened, so I took your words to mean that they were related to this case specifically. It was a misunderstanding, and I apologize. Could you provide a brief synopsis of the other events? I would like to know what has happened in the past should something like this happen again. You know, so I can identify a pattern and not rely so much on what other people know.

I was unaware of the situation regarding Hiwi. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I'll look out for that in the future. Do you have specific examples or screen shots? I doubt doubt you, I just want a more detailed picture of what happened.

As for the cult like behavior thing. I feel like it's a common occurrence for insular fandom spaces like discord servers. And that it's usually unintentional. I just try to stay aware of what is happening. I'm also not as active as most, and my activity is usually in the more nevermore specific channels so I don't think I've noticed the cult like aspects of it.

[thelesbomancer]

Hey, just wanted to give you some extra context as the person who is being referred to in those messages (I'm Laci),

While you mentioned the screenshots were “heavily edited”, it's crucial to emphasize that the comments and content depicted in those screenshots were deeply concerning and inappropriate. Regardless of the intent or context, sending explicit material to minors, regardless of age, is unacceptable and violates Discord community standards. The only thing censored in the screenshots were the names of some of the people involved that preferred to be kept anonymous as well as one image that was completely NSFW. I felt uncomfortable dming Red with a picture of literal porn so I censored it. If they wanted the uncensored NSFW image I could have provided it. As for the names, I would’ve needed consent from all of the parties involved. They now have all of the uncensored screenshots. The decision to unban Crimson (The person who sent explicit material to several minors) and put them on “probation” without full verification of the screenshots contents may have inadvertently exposed minors to further risk. It's crucial that such decisions prioritize the safety of community members, especially vulnerable minors. People began to state that they were some of the minors who Crimson has sent inappropriate material to in the general chat upon seeing their presence and expressed their general distaste for it. A few of the people who came forward were muted after expressing themselves and were unable to participate in any further discussion. All of that could have been avoided if they investigated further or reached out. In Red's response to the situation she claimed that the minors were "Egging" Crimson on. I can't even begin to express how gross it is to imply that the minors were attempting to get Crimson to send the explicit material to them, especially after so many of them expressed their discomfort with the situation. Red also mentioned they should have reached out to the mod team personally instead of getting an adult to communicate the information to the mods as a third party. Again, if there was an issue with the legitimacy of the images provided I would've liked to talk about it before they made the decision to unban Crimson. Screenshot below.

I'd also like to point out that the attempt to excuse Crimson's actions based on her age and down playing it by saying "Not like, 34 or anything." Regardless of her age, an adult should not be sending sexually explicit material to a minor. It's also offensive to attempt to downplay the severity of the things Crimson had said as "talking about boobs" when Red had access to screenshots showing that she did much more than just that. In regards to my suddenly controversial presence, I still do not understand what I have done to make myself untrustworthy. I am most definitely not known for making people say things that will get them in trouble or banned, I usually just draw and post my art and do not interact with the Nevermore Discord beyond that unless it was in Patreon stream. I don’t understand where that accusation has come from as it's completely untrue. Multiple people could back me up on that. When a large group of people were banned from the Nevermore discord that I was associated with, I was not banned because I had no actions to verify that I was also doing anything offensive. I never participated in anything that could’ve been seen as toxic in the community. I was narrowly spared from being banned by association alone because I had several people say I was a good person. While the main issue at hand was the presence of an adult who had sent explicit material to minors in the discord server being reintroduced to the community it somehow turned into a large fight about me being an untrustworthy individual and a hypocrite. I cannot stress enough how unimportant Red’s opinion of me is in the face of a literal crime being committed. Sending explicit material to minors is ILLEGAL. Regardless of your age, regardless of circumstance. I frankly find it appalling that they decided that the evidence provided was insufficient just because they didn’t like that the source was me and thus decided that the images were doctored. If during Crimson’s appeal they had simply dmed me and asked for the personal testimony from the people involved I would’ve happily directed them to the affected parties. 

On top of being illegal, which is obviously worse, here are a list of the Discord TOS that Crimson violated through the screenshots alone.

Crimson attempted to normalize the relationship of a 16 year old and 22 year old OC to a minor (screenshot below)

The next two are self explanatory

Below I’ve posted an example of the “Heavily edited” screenshots. (Not all of them, just a few) As you can see the only thing that was censored are the names of the people involved. None of the content was edited. I’d also like to mention that this was not a side server, it was a group chat created by people in the Nevermore discord to speak to each other privately.

CW: Explicit sexual text. Please do not view these screenshots if you are under the age of 18 ↓

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Sorry about the accusations, I was just repeating what I had been told. And I was also skimming the chat when this was happening so I wasn't able to prosses everything that was going on.

I'll go back in and add some allegedlys. Would that be okay with you?

Also, yikes, it was worse than I thought.

[conscience-grim]

fuck rnf and hiwi for unbanning a proven pedophile and allowing people to talk about nsfw in public. ive been on the server since it opened and theyve consistently sexualised rape and racism for years lmfao

i do still enjoy nevermore as a concept and ill be doing a full rewrite of it

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Look, when that happened RnF did not have all the information that they do now. They unbanned that person because to them the screen shots they had went through several people, where heavily censored, and said information came from a person known to start things. Also all the things that they knew happened came from a separate server, not the main one. The person that was banned said it was "a mistake" that they "didn't know the people where minors," they where also 18 or 19, and when talking to the mods about what happened they seemed remorseful and humiliated. The heavily censored screen shots where all they had. Said screen shots came from a person the mods and RnF do not trust. The victims screen names where censored, the images where censored, and they weren't aloud to know the victims screen names so they couldn't corroborate the evidence. With the information the mods had, this sounded like a new adult who mad a dumb mistake, in a server that the mods weren't in.

Then they unbanned the person (after 4 months), and put them on probation. Said person was on thin ice. The back lash caused new evidence to come to light and the person was banned again.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you grossly misrepresented the facts of the case. The way you phrased it made it sound like they knew what was going on. The didn't.

The mods aren't omniscient. They can't know when stuff like this is going down if no one tells them about it. And again, they did not have all the information that they do now. They where doing there best with what they had.

[conscience-grim]

Hi, I'm going to ask you some questions and then respond. Pedophilia, rape and victim blaming under the cut.

Why should a mod team distrust the individual? Is it due to their previous actions? Did the mod team have proof that their previous actions were "stirring up trouble" or were they mentioning valid concerns? Were these concerns minimised by the mod team?

Why does censoring information mean it is less viable, other than lack of correbation?

How did the mod team react? Was it professionally, considering they are an official server? Was it unprofessionally? Was it self-blame? Was it overly emotional?

Secondly, the reason it appears like I "grossly misrepresented the facts of the case" is because I'm not talking about one case. I'm speaking about the ~10 other times similar events (note: not this specific user, I'm glad they were re-banned, and consider that a good thing) was brought up, sometimes years ago. I've known at least 3 reports of pedophiles to the team, and this is the only one that's had a response at all.

I mention Hiwi specifically because they are an adult on the mod team who has a habit of mentioning kinks and rape-play to minors, and explicitly stated that people who are sexually assaulted "secretly wanted it". Red has not banned them because they are her childhood friend, which I believe, personally, is biased.

I mostly hope that, to be blunt, the people involved get help. It's steeped in cult-like behaviour, which is why I've been taking my time away from them.

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Sorry for the previous harsh response. I'm fairly involved in the fandom, and I feel like I have to put out fires at times.

To answer your questions first, the untrustworthy person in question has a habit of baiting in people in to doing things that could get them banned. The fact that the screen shots where censored mean that they could have been edited. The mods didn't trust this person due to their past actions. They did not provide proof, but a lot was going on at the time so I don't blame them for not being able to provide receipts.

Censored information isn't less viable perse, but it was the fact that the person who did the censoring was seen as untrustworthy that made it less viable. Also all the explicit images where censored, so they didn't know the severity of the situation.

They tried to respond to it professionally, but they kept being attacked for what happened before they had all the information and responses became emotional. Though once things cooled down they continued to answer questions for transparency and responses became professional again.

You see, from the way you phrased it, people who don't have knowledge of server history wouldn't interpret it that way. I was unaware of the other things that happened, so I took your words to mean that they were related to this case specifically. It was a misunderstanding, and I apologize. Could you provide a brief synopsis of the other events? I would like to know what has happened in the past should something like this happen again. You know, so I can identify a pattern and not rely so much on what other people know.

I was unaware of the situation regarding Hiwi. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I'll look out for that in the future. Do you have specific examples or screen shots? I doubt doubt you, I just want a more detailed picture of what happened.

As for the cult like behavior thing. I feel like it's a common occurrence for insular fandom spaces like discord servers. And that it's usually unintentional. I just try to stay aware of what is happening. I'm also not as active as most, and my activity is usually in the more nevermore specific channels so I don't think I've noticed the cult like aspects of it.

[conscience-grim]

No worries, genuinely - thank you for responding to my questions, also. I don't interact with the people much (I lurk), so I'm not very aware of non-staff.

I'd gladly send you screenshots and a rundown! Should we take it to dms? There's some screenshots that'll take a little bit of time to collect, and my timezone is wonky (it's pretty much night for me atm), so it'll give me chance to a) sleep and b) collect everything.

Also, complete agree about insular spaces. It's why I hope everybody has time outside, honestly - even when unintentional, it's still very damaging.

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Okay, sounds good

And thank you for being able to provide screen shots. But yes we can take it to dms. Though this blog is connected to my main one, it's not a separate account, so who you'll be dming with will have a different pfp.

[conscience-grim]

fuck rnf and hiwi for unbanning a proven pedophile and allowing people to talk about nsfw in public. ive been on the server since it opened and theyve consistently sexualised rape and racism for years lmfao

i do still enjoy nevermore as a concept and ill be doing a full rewrite of it

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Look, when that happened RnF did not have all the information that they do now. They unbanned that person because to them the screen shots they had went through several people, where heavily censored, and said information came from a person known to start things. Also all the things that they knew happened came from a separate server, not the main one. The person that was banned said it was "a mistake" that they "didn't know the people where minors," they where also 18 or 19, and when talking to the mods about what happened they seemed remorseful and humiliated. The heavily censored screen shots where all they had. Said screen shots came from a person the mods and RnF do not trust. The victims screen names where censored, the images where censored, and they weren't aloud to know the victims screen names so they couldn't corroborate the evidence. With the information the mods had, this sounded like a new adult who mad a dumb mistake, in a server that the mods weren't in.

Then they unbanned the person (after 4 months), and put them on probation. Said person was on thin ice. The back lash caused new evidence to come to light and the person was banned again.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you grossly misrepresented the facts of the case. The way you phrased it made it sound like they knew what was going on. The didn't.

The mods aren't omniscient. They can't know when stuff like this is going down if no one tells them about it. And again, they did not have all the information that they do now. They where doing there best with what they had.

[conscience-grim]

Hi, I'm going to ask you some questions and then respond. Pedophilia, rape and victim blaming under the cut.

Why should a mod team distrust the individual? Is it due to their previous actions? Did the mod team have proof that their previous actions were "stirring up trouble" or were they mentioning valid concerns? Were these concerns minimised by the mod team?

Why does censoring information mean it is less viable, other than lack of correbation?

How did the mod team react? Was it professionally, considering they are an official server? Was it unprofessionally? Was it self-blame? Was it overly emotional?

Secondly, the reason it appears like I "grossly misrepresented the facts of the case" is because I'm not talking about one case. I'm speaking about the ~10 other times similar events (note: not this specific user, I'm glad they were re-banned, and consider that a good thing) was brought up, sometimes years ago. I've known at least 3 reports of pedophiles to the team, and this is the only one that's had a response at all.

I mention Hiwi specifically because they are an adult on the mod team who has a habit of mentioning kinks and rape-play to minors, and explicitly stated that people who are sexually assaulted "secretly wanted it". Red has not banned them because they are her childhood friend, which I believe, personally, is biased.

I mostly hope that, to be blunt, the people involved get help. It's steeped in cult-like behaviour, which is why I've been taking my time away from them.

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Sorry for the previous harsh response. I'm fairly involved in the fandom, and I feel like I have to put out fires at times.

To answer your questions first, the untrustworthy person in question allegedly has a habit of baiting in people in to doing things that could get them banned. The fact that the screen shots where censored mean that they could have been edited. The mods didn't trust this person due to things they've allegedly done in the past. They did not provide proof, but a lot was going on at the time so I don't blame them for not being able to provide receipts.

Censored information isn't less viable perse, but it was the fact that the person who did the censoring was seen as untrustworthy that made it less viable. Also all the explicit images where censored, so they didn't know the severity of the situation.

They tried to respond to it professionally, but they kept being attacked for what happened before they had all the information and responses became emotional. Though once things cooled down they continued to answer questions for transparency and responses became professional again.

You see, from the way you phrased it, people who don't have knowledge of server history wouldn't interpret it that way. I was unaware of the other things that happened, so I took your words to mean that they were related to this case specifically. It was a misunderstanding, and I apologize. Could you provide a brief synopsis of the other events? I would like to know what has happened in the past should something like this happen again. You know, so I can identify a pattern and not rely so much on what other people know.

I was unaware of the situation regarding Hiwi. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Do you have specific examples or screen shots? I just want a more detailed picture of what happened.

As for the cult like behavior thing. I feel like it's a common occurrence for insular fandom spaces like discord servers. And that it's usually unintentional. I just try to stay aware of what is happening. I'm also not as active as most, and my activity is usually in the more nevermore specific channels so I don't think I've noticed the cult like aspects of it.

[conscience-grim]

fuck rnf and hiwi for unbanning a proven pedophile and allowing people to talk about nsfw in public. ive been on the server since it opened and theyve consistently sexualised rape and racism for years lmfao

i do still enjoy nevermore as a concept and ill be doing a full rewrite of it

[fandom-drama-side-blog]

Look, when that happened RnF did not have all the information that they do now. They unbanned that person because to them the screen shots they had went through several people, where heavily censored, and said information came from a person known to start things. Also all the things that they knew happened came from a separate server, not the main one. The person that was banned said it was "a mistake" that they "didn't know the people where minors," they where also 18 or 19, and when talking to the mods about what happened they seemed remorseful and humiliated. The heavily censored screen shots where all they had. Said screen shots came from a person the mods and RnF do not trust. The victims screen names where censored, the images where censored, and they weren't aloud to know the victims screen names so they couldn't corroborate the evidence. With the information the mods had, this sounded like a new adult who mad a dumb mistake, in a server that the mods weren't in.

Then they unbanned the person (after 4 months), and put them on probation. Said person was on thin ice. The back lash caused new evidence to come to light and the person was banned again.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you grossly misrepresented the facts of the case. The way you phrased it made it sound like they knew what was going on. The didn't.

The mods aren't omniscient. They can't know when stuff like this is going down if no one tells them about it. And again, they did not have all the information that they do now. They where doing there best with what they had.