What is the difference between Compas Direct and traditional Zouk?
added 35 new photos from December 22, 2014 to the album:
Elegant Soiree Tanya St Val performance
·Holiday Gala featuring compa and Zouk music by Tanyatsv St Val. Ron Felix (bass),Yayoi Lina Ikawa (keyboards) Gashford Guillaume (drums) Roland Cameau (guitar) and Bendji Allonce (percussion).
You, Ralph Cadet, Philippe Dupont, Eddy Carries and 39 others like this.
JD Pierre It is about time that you guys understand what a music style is. Zouk was a fast carnival jump up beat that faded away in the 80s. The French Antillean artists have featured compas; today zouk is the French Antilles COMPAS. you should read; it is everywhere….Tanya St. Val alike Erick Virgal and cassav are playing compas. Music and dance. Remember. However, we don’t have anything personal with our Antillean brothers and sisters; But since 1955 they have been initiated to the style…it has been over 50 years…c'mon! Haitian people dance compas; the same way the meringue is danced for years. Thank youDecember 23, 2014 at 9:10pm · Edited · 2
Gashford Guillaume Thanks for sharing JD Pierre. Info that I am very aware of. However, lets also remember the Kasav did not just play the fast zouk. They also played the slow one which later was also called “zouk love” (orlane, Erik Vergal, etc). As a drummer, I still have to know and understand there is a difference in zouk and compa even though they can be the same. Let us not forget the two key elements “kata” (rim shot) and “Kale Sembal” (cymbal choke). These are the two important elements a drummer should know when to use when Compa and Zouk are mentioned. If a Venn diagram were to be used to compare and contrast these two names, there would be differences (even if minimal). … Ron Felix Bobby Raymond Shedly AbrahamJocel Almeus Roland Cameau Assel Jean-Pierre Sr. Jube Altino Sandra Gabriel Stanley TruthMusicDecember 23, 2014 at 9:44pm · Edited · Like
Sandra Gabriel I detect some “shade” JD Pierre. Gashford Guillaume is an excellent musician. There is a difference of opinion. You can provide useful information to illustrate your point of view without insinuating that the person with a different perspective has no frame of reference.December 23, 2014 at 9:32pm · Edited · Like
Gashford Guillaume Yes really, I would be willing to demonstrate for you if we could meet live. LOL…. Hey man, music and names titles are a language. Just like there is compa manmba, Compa Pike devan etc, these names describe variations. If Zouk needs to be named Compa zouk, so be it. As I said, there is a difference in sounds and elements. If it’s a way to know which musical elements to use or not in a song, so be it. I’m always willing to soak up knowledge. That’s what being a musician is all about. Let me know if there is anything you disagree with or is not clear. Always willing to dialgue. Actually, we can create a new post for discussion. “What’s the difference between Compa & Zouk”? Judging by your comments, you say they are none….December 23, 2014 at 9:31pm · Like
JD Pierre Sandra at anytime my intent was to diminish anybody; you know typing so fast ..thinking fast may not always come out politely…lol…Sorry if I appear to be offensive…multitasking ….I wanted to invite the brother to read some scholars who have strongly researched on the matter. In fact I did give him credit for being a musicianDecember 23, 2014 at 9:34pm · Edited · 1
Gashford Guillaume Yeah JD Pierre, your ‘Arent you a musician" comment did come out as shade, but notice my repsponse did not take it too personal for I know you are a person with passion for the music of your country and have done great research which I am glad I shared. So, if I tell you as a musician I see a difference, you have to ask me what they are and I gave examples. These are things I MUST know how to play. It’s all good bro. As long as there is no disrespect, we are good….December 23, 2014 at 9:41pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Joanne Cgr When????December 23, 2014 at 9:40pm · Like
JD Pierre No Gashford! passion has nothing to do here but just the fact. By the way my apology for any unintended signal.December 23, 2014 at 9:47pm · Edited
Gashford Guillaume JD Pierre, here is a fact for you…. If I am asked to play Compas and I am asked to play zouk, you will “hear” a difference because I will play two different ways.December 23, 2014 at 9:51pm · Edited · Like
Gashford Guillaume Joanne CreolegirlsRock, I sent you the flyer. LOL… It was this past Saturday.December 23, 2014 at 9:49pm · Edited · Like · 1
Joanne Cgr I didn’t see it. Looks like it was a good time.December 23, 2014 at 9:53pm · Like
JD Pierre What Haitian failed to realize is the fact that a lie repeated over and over can be taken as the truth. After 50 years of playing a music style it makes sense to acknowledge it? American don’t have this problem with England and other countries that feature the rock n roll, pop, etc. Do you realize that in Africa, Cape verde and other places compas is called zouk?…The same way there exist a variety of rock styles the same way the world is replete with compas style or meringue styles. inlfuenced by geography, cultures, etc. but the basic features that characterize the style are the same. For instance we have the Cuban rhumba as opposed to the Congolez one…the comon factor is rhumba, the style….as you can see brother I am rushing…multitasking…doing so much at a time. i understand that every country would like to have its identity and believe me when French Antilleans come up with something new I will be a great supporter but until, there is a need to prevent confusion, duplication and undeserved credits…December 23, 2014 at 10:00pm · Edited · 1
JD Pierre Gashford you’re welcome to your views; it’s your prerogative brother. Keep practicing your zouk; I like the way you dance it too. Have a Merry Christmas brother.December 23, 2014 at 10:10pm · Edited
Ron Felix I personally think that what is called Zouk nowadays is not any different to Konpa.December 23, 2014 at 10:11pm · Unlike · 1
Ron Felix Also what was called Zouk in the past is entirely different then what it is now. Everyone back then knew that Zouk Love derived from Konpa.December 23, 2014 at 10:16pm · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel I understand both points of view but in my humble opinion..I started to see the change in how traditional Zouk was played compared to what it later transitioned into. WE mostly kept Kompa in the “Balle” format with “17” minute tunes, THEY shortened it, slowed it down and made it marketable. However, it is my belief that it’s basically all variations and derivatives of Kompa. The first modern day “Kompa love” song I heard was from the Haitian band ZEKLE “Chante lanmou” and many bands from the Nouvelle Génération era of the 80’s soon followed. “Chak foi mwen sonje”..Ti Raoul Denis. I also recognize the change in how the new style was first pioneered with Zekle in their earlier albums.December 23, 2014 at 11:01pm · Edited · Like · 1
Ron Felix It’s evolution Sandra Konpa in it’s modern state. LolDecember 23, 2014 at 11:03pm · Unlike · 1
Ron Felix Seriously that’s what Konpa would have turned into if there were no corruption.December 23, 2014 at 11:05pm · Unlike · 1
Ron Felix It’s only because technology forced it to be this way with the invention of keyboards sequencers and drum machines.December 23, 2014 at 11:09pm · Unlike · 1
Ron Felix Young haitian musicians in New York were already modernizing konpa but were never supported because the media refused to accept anything new just like today.December 23, 2014 at 11:14pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Ron Felix Look at ZEKLE for instance they had Rock incorporated in their style and Zouk is like an R&B fused kompa. Musicians in New York were already experimenting that but were never given a chance. I must give credit and applaud the french Antilles to find the solution and made it work. That’s the reason of why i accept Zouk for what it is.December 23, 2014 at 11:30pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Ron Felix As far as other nations not recognizing our konpa style is mainly because we failed to advertise our rhythms internationally. Doors were opened wide for us to step in the pot of gold that awaited. We chose not to step in it. For instance many bands had deals offered to them by major labels that could have made konpa crossover and be popular like reggae. The fact that these major companies were interested showed the. band members that they had something of value. So With their greedy minds they refused these deals thinking that it will be more profitable for them without sharing with the major label companies. Like i always hear them say “nou pra pal kite moun manje sou tet nou"December 23, 2014 at 11:44pm · Unlike · 2
Sandra Gabriel Exactly!December 23, 2014 at 11:47pm · Like
Gashford Guillaume JD Pierre wrote ” Gashford you’re welcome to your views; it’s your prerogative brother. Keep practicing your zouk; I like the way you dance it too. Have a Merry Christmas brother.“
You like the way I dance it? Keep practicing it? Wow. Obviously you h…See MoreDecember 23, 2014 at 11:58pm · Edited · Like
Gashford Guillaume Ron Felix and Sandra Gabriel your points are well made. Something to think about. So in other words, the Haitian musicians and artists are to blame for Compas not being recognized as it should be?December 23, 2014 at 11:56pm · Unlike · 2
Gashford Guillaume Jean Carol Botreau HgmiDecember 24, 2014 at 12:34am · Like
Ron Felix Well it is not their fault that they think like that. The haitian kompa bands were badly manipulated by so called band owner and promoters in the past.December 24, 2014 at 12:36am · Unlike · 2
Ron Felix The musicians were getting chump change for their hard work while owners and promoters on both the motherland and overseas were making fortunes. Really nothing comparing to the percentage that we make today and sometimes they get nothing while profits are being made from the promoters. It was like that until some bands came in the US. Musicians who stayed in the US understood the value of the dollar and slowly realized that they were robed. So that’s were the fear of getting ripped off from major label companies comes from.December 24, 2014 at 4:03pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Ron Felix This thread is interesting with two other topic that has nothing to do with the original thread. I apologize for participating in changing its course. Please feel free to delete or move my post to an appropriate thread.December 24, 2014 at 1:02am · Like
Gashford Guillaume It’s all related! We can’t look at things from one angle.December 24, 2014 at 1:49am · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi this exchange caught my attention , before i even knew my name was in there Gashford …Ron felix is right , and i know what he’s talking about the musicians that are to blame , for the state of kompa music ..yeah there was indeed a great contract to sign a certain band , because of greediness and a lack of knowledge the deal fell .also it occurs to me that no one has ever mentioned EXILE ONE and GRAMMACKS from Guadeloupe and La Dominique ..i played with both in the 70’s in Martinique .they were before Kassav ….as a matter of fact Kassav continued that form of music called zouk today (derived from Kompa)…at that time , the drummers couldn’t kale their cymbale like us haitian drummers ( we invented that style ,), but they had more techniques than us drummers , with what we called independence Gashford ..you know what i mean …and one night after i played with Grammacks , where the late singer Jeff Joseph got on the drums and did some crazy stuff , i was shocked …and the next morning i went to his place to learn some and exchange some ..( great guy ,and a great drummer also ) their ultimate wish and dream was to play the KOMPA like us …he admired me because of the kompa , and i admired him because of some new skills and beats i’ve learned from him ..like biguine ..quadrille ..chouval bwa ..they were and still are fascinated by KOMPA ….December 24, 2014 at 2:18am · Edited · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi DeDE ST PRIX can tell you where ZOUK got their source …les LEOpards had an Haitian Drummer at that time , who was raised in Martinique …He Himself couldn’t play the real KOMpa , but he was a great drummer ….at that time La COCOTRAIE in GUADELOUPE and CHEZ NIKOL in MArtinique were the places where the great bands and great musicians from Africa , Haiti , santo Domingo , you name it , met and became friends ..December 24, 2014 at 2:31am · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi before kassav , there were : Malavoi ..Selecta ..la Perfecta , les Gentlemen ..les Leopards ..who were already addicted with Kompa Music ….they all wanted to be Haitian at that times because of our KOMPa MUSIC ..lolllll. they looked at us like KINGS ….December 24, 2014 at 2:45am · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi yeah ..it’s sad …Ron Felix is so so right ….He told the TRuth ….December 24, 2014 at 2:47am · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel Thank you for sharing Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi. Very interesting and informativeDecember 24, 2014 at 2:48am · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel Thank you Ron Felix. I totally agree with you.December 24, 2014 at 2:58am · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel Gashford Guillaume you’ve made a valuable point. I think mainly JD Pierre’s point of view got “lost in translation” and he was basically trying to say what Ron Felix said. Gashford you are correct in highlighting the technicalities from a musical standpoint. I think even with those rudimentary differences there is a complex set of circumstances that elevated the music towards their direction while keeping us from progressing to the same level on our side. We were battling each other while they were learning our music and growing from it.December 24, 2014 at 3:40am · Edited · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel Jean Jean-PierreDecember 24, 2014 at 3:16am · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi the pleasure is mine sis …the recollection took me back to my youth ..i’m still smiling ..lolllDecember 24, 2014 at 3:20am · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel I love great music whether you call it konpa, kompa compa, compas, konpa , kompa love, traditional Zouk, Zouk, Zouk love, Guetto Zouk (coined by Nelson Freitas),Kizomba… etc etcDecember 24, 2014 at 3:27am · Edited · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel We can all learn from each other. The HMI has to make changes in the way things are done in order to survive. The new generation has already adapted what they grew up listening to as their own. They don’t know it’s origin and if a tune is awesome they will buy it no matter who originated the style.December 24, 2014 at 3:35am · Like
Gashford Guillaume Sorry Sandra Gabriel, it’s impossible to get one to listen to you if you don’t use wisdom and respect. JD seems to have a lot of knowledge of music history however, if one wishes people to listen, you have to know how to deliver the message to get people to hear and grasp your point of views. (No excuses). You also have to be willing to listen to others as well…December 24, 2014 at 3:42am · Edited · Like
Gashford Guillaume Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi, thanks for the breakdown on your experience. Very informative! You wrote “zouk dirived from Kompa”, my question is this, is Kompa and Zouk the same?December 24, 2014 at 3:42am · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel Gashford Guillaume I agree. I never want anyone who takes the time to read threads and contribute to feel offended or slighted. Points of views should be expressed without insult no matter how heated they may become.December 24, 2014 at 3:46am · Like · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi lol..my bro Gashford , i like your question , tomorrow morning i will give you all the infos , with facts , history , document and audio proof , that will show the whole truth and nothing but the truth … ( i have documentation from their history book ) musicians from Guadeloupe …they know kompa started in the 50’s by Nemours jean baptiste , and kassav appears in the beginning of the 8o’s after Decimus left Les VIKINGS of guadeloupe …Zouk is a broken kompa ..they couldn’t play the cymbale with dexterity , so they adapt it more closely to their jouval bwa style of music which itself was very influenced by Haitian Music .i.e. kompa direct …you can see it and hear it from the pionners of the jouval bwa music ..CLaude Germany ..and joselita …..zouk mens Festival or little bal …so since kassav came with their single Banzawa , they played it in all the zouks or bals , and later on they called it ZOUK MUSIC ….i have all my proofs .December 24, 2014 at 4:19am · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi the beat of the jouval bwa is a kata as you said , but not on the cymbal , but on the snare , or originally with 2 ti bwa on the conga or pieces of banboo .December 24, 2014 at 4:24am · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi the difference is in the chords structure , the arrangement , the bass , and the introduction of sophisticated sounds( modern instruments) and new gadgets in the zouk to make it more universal or WORLd music or New sound ..but the beat is Kompa .December 24, 2014 at 4:28am · Edited · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi i will inbox you some infoDecember 24, 2014 at 4:29am · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi by the way all the zouk pioneers and jwal bwa admitted , in their videography of the strong influence of kompa music in the 70’s , either in Martinique , Guadeloupe or la DOminique , and how they associated it in their works …ask ..Dede St Prix , or Claude Germany , or DEcimus . les Aiglons .., or GOrdon from EXILE One …December 24, 2014 at 4:39am · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi while they were playing kompa , les aiglons (before kassav appeared on the scene) called it ..cadence lipso ….but they showed us Mad LOve ..when we were there .( LES LOUPS NOIRS ) as i said they received us like KINGS ….besides KOMPa , they were and still are extremely talented …..good night ..lolll..or good morning (the love of..music made me do it )December 24, 2014 at 4:53am · Unlike · 1
Ron Felix Gashford, I did not realize the thread’s title until you mentioned that all was related and you are right. Since I’m using my phone I didn’t see the title, i just saw the pictures and assumed that the thread was about Tanya’s performance. The show where you danced your behind off while playing the drums. HahahaDecember 24, 2014 at 9:16am · Like · 1
Gashford Guillaume Wow Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi, you are a walking encyclopedia. This is how wisdom and wealth is supposed to be shared. I will have to re-read. Thanks for sharing on Legends.
Ron Felix, lol you know it!December 24, 2014 at 10:49am · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel Thank you Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi. I love all this information.December 24, 2014 at 11:37am · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel Jean LucDecember 24, 2014 at 11:37am · Like
Gashford Guillaume Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi, start preparing your book! Lol…December 24, 2014 at 11:39am · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi i will ..but there’s another one i ’ll dedicate to you …as a matter of fact i’ve been sharing some heavy infos with you since you were 14 years old ..because i could see your thirst for knowledge ..do you remember the subject matter ? i’ll mention you in the book’s intro ? hahahahahahahaDecember 24, 2014 at 11:59am · Edited · Like · 1
Jean Luc Overall it is not simple because over a long time you have countless influences…
It think one key is, that there was a time when antillian bands dropped from cadence into zouk - early 80s albums like they could not decide what to play. The sphere o…See MoreDecember 24, 2014 at 12:21pm · Edited · Like · 1
Jean Luc My theory is, one day some years ago, they were sick of their zoulov, and begun to play compas again. Some zouk artists had an compas only album, others just one or two compas songs. The difference is, antillians modern music bases on a dance beat - and that from the first second. Add a short compas guitar loop, nice melody, “that’s it”.
In my opinion most compas is still in bal format. Bands need good songs for three years on stage. The song structure of compas is much more complex (it doesn’t base on bum bum bum), you need time to understand a song and to feel it.December 24, 2014 at 12:30pm · Edited · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi i should thank you guys for giving me the opportunity to recollect great memories and infos hidden into my subconscious mind …December 24, 2014 at 12:19pm · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel You gave us compelling and very important information Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi. Thank you. I will definitely enjoy going back further to study the music more closely and listen for the progression of the music.December 24, 2014 at 12:29pm · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel I am also very happy that LHM has group members from all the world. They also have a different perspective, yet they love our music.December 24, 2014 at 12:32pm · Like · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi i agree with jean luc , although they loved and still love the kompa they were in search of an identity , they went back and forth with the Cadence Lipso , until after leaving the VIKings , Decimus formed kassav ..and finally took ZOUK to a worldwide audience with his partner Jacob Desvarieux and others ….great accomplishment ….December 24, 2014 at 12:40pm · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel Ron Felix lol! I added a title to the thread after Gashford Guillaume suggested it. It has been a very educational thread. Many great points.December 24, 2014 at 12:44pm · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel Tom MitchellDecember 24, 2014 at 12:45pm · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi Now my question is : does kompa have a chance , or is it too late ?..what can we do ? we need some visionary , young musicians , who can think outside the BOx , the status quo to make it happen .a crazy mind ..lol…but no matter what there are 2 great minds , 2 veterans who have to be on board …do you know who they are ? lolllllDecember 24, 2014 at 4:54pm · Edited · Like · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi the veterans are still active though in the HMI …December 24, 2014 at 12:56pm · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi these 2 should have a joint meeting , not for their bands , but for the sake of having a UNited Front to push us to the next level aided with some talented young Cats …December 24, 2014 at 1:00pm · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi that’s my opinion ..what’s yours ?December 24, 2014 at 1:02pm · Like
Tom Mitchell What? Ha ha ha. Sandra Gabriel I was just spilling my guts toGashford Guillaume in private about all of this.December 24, 2014 at 2:51pm · Unlike · 2
Ron Felix Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi, You know I didn’t think that Konpa had a chance until I saw a Konpa band made it to the number one spot on iTunes for more than a week in the world music category but I’m afraid greed might still plays its part in the Haitian music industry. I believe major label companies will not let a band who hits the top charts slips out of their hands.December 24, 2014 at 5:00pm · Edited · Like · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi yeah , you’re right Ron Felix …which band was it ? do you think it can happen again ?December 24, 2014 at 4:33pm · Like
Ron Felix The band was CARIMI with their latest album and it is something that I witnessed with my own eyes. I do believe it can happen again with the right marketing. I don’t know if it true but someone told me that CARIMI has their own label and Hamonik is sighed under them.December 24, 2014 at 4:47pm · Edited · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi did we make a study to find out the reasons it did happen , and follow the same example ..was it the song , the band , a new vibe or element in the promotion department ? a new sound ?December 24, 2014 at 4:43pm · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi when you said greed , do you mean a rival band , or internal greed among the members ? inquiring mind wants to know …either here or in my inbox …lollll.. sometimes the Truth hurts , we have to be wise ..December 24, 2014 at 4:49pm · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi one thing i know , you have to have a great following , consistency is the key , your fan base has to be huge ..December 24, 2014 at 4:52pm · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel Tom Mitchell I value your opinion. I’d love to hear your thoughts.December 24, 2014 at 5:29pm · Like
Ron Felix I can be quite harsh sometimes but don’t mean any harm. I might be saying the word greed also out of frustration simply because i am a victim of it. You see as you know Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi I was one of the founders of a band in the past when I was in my teens. While we were in a Studio mixing our first album, RCA Records a major label company were interested wanted to sign us. A decision was made not to go ahead with the deal and my heart and love for the band fell ever since but I still struggled and worked hard for the band’s success and later realized that I couldn’t go through with it any more. I lost many deals as a bass player in the process and that is in both the Haitian Music Industry and the American Music Industry. So I really don’t care what anyone thinks I am truthfully spilling my guts out.December 24, 2014 at 6:53pm · Edited · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi wow,,,it sure hurts ..you have a reason for being harsh bro ..no matter what , Ron will not run from the Truth …December 24, 2014 at 6:06pm · Unlike · 2
Ron Felix The truth has to be told otherwise the same mistakes will hunt us forever. These bands needs to know that signing with a major label is to their advantage and also for the future of the haitian culture. If that was done in the past, we would not be debating on whether or not Zouk in it’s current format derives from Kompa.December 24, 2014 at 7:26pm · Edited · Unlike · 2
Ron Felix I’m sure many are wondering where did I get my info and how can i back up the things that i said earlier. I come from a very large family and i have brothers that many people think are my fathers. Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi mentioned members of Kassav had a band called the Vickings. My brothers band’s name was the Vickings and the were very popular in the french antilles. I believe they were the original Vickings. Most of what i’ve spoke about are from stories that they have told me. They were also manipulated. Probably worst than any other band because they were isolated.December 24, 2014 at 7:24pm · Unlike · 2
Sandra Gabriel We need the truth. Thanks Ron Felix.December 24, 2014 at 7:33pm · Edited · Like · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi ROn my brother is right again ..les Vikings from haiti were the original ones .we played so many times together at LA Fregatte night club..Vickings ..Loups Noirs ).i was friend with the late singer Levy the guy could dance and animate … Harry the drummer and i were school classmates , great guy . can’t remember your brother’s name , but i knew all of them ..one thing i realized last night , and i was shocked when i saw his age , it seems that i’m older than Dede St Prix , and many others ..loll…AT that time i thought they were my elders ..may be i was more quiet , and reserved …oh..great memories .December 24, 2014 at 8:04pm · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi i think way , way back , we didn’t put so much trust in a contract , didn’t know its significance , and some bands were scared of getting robbed , because they didn’t understand the business aspect of something they started doing for Fun ..Girls ..Fame ..and fe shelbe …i’m just trying to get a glimpse of such Ignorance …( pardon my french ) i.e. lack of Knowledge .December 24, 2014 at 8:12pm · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi thus …my generation has a lot to do with Kompa’s decadence ….December 24, 2014 at 8:14pm · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi on the financial aspect for sure …December 24, 2014 at 8:15pm · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel So is mine Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi. The children being born in my generation have not been exposed to enough music from the Legends, for the most part with few exceptions.December 24, 2014 at 8:32pm · Edited · Like · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi welcome to the club dear sis ..hahahaha..i don’t wanna be alone …we shall tell the truth , it shall blow some people’s minds , but it will set us Free ….December 24, 2014 at 8:31pm · Unlike · 2
Sandra Gabriel the” musical vocabulary" of today has become limited.December 24, 2014 at 8:33pm · Like
Sandra Gabriel However there are still MANY exceptional artist and musicians out there who deserve more exposure as well as recognition.December 24, 2014 at 8:43pm · Edited · Like · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi from Afar i could see that Carimi learned from our past mistakes , and started on a good ground ..know your craft , know the business , be aware of what’s going on , have faith …and Be Daring …( a little craziness is not bad ) that’s mean you can think , and act out of the Box , if the need is present …sa kap fet nan corporation an , rete nan corporation ….oh i didn’t forget ..Legalize your band , your business …Incorporate yourself ..be a member of Sacem , BMI etc…stop gossipings …educate yourself ..get the infos …..December 24, 2014 at 8:42pm · Unlike · 3
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi your singers are the best sellers of your business …if you have one , he should be versatile …if not get 2 0r 3 with different styles , completely opposite styles …e ou nan jwet …yeah ..they have to be young ….change is the only constant thing in this universe …don’t be afraid of it …..December 24, 2014 at 8:50pm · Unlike · 3
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi you have to know how to use the Social media , always be aware …let’s say you have a video out , you have to know how to capitalize on that , and attract those views that will push your product .the 50.000 views are not miracles …it’s a business , know the rules , before you get to play the game ……VOila ..i said a lot since last night may be some people might benefit from it …i’ve done my Job ..lollDecember 24, 2014 at 9:01pm · Unlike · 3
Ron Felix Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi I had two brothers in Vickings Auguste Felix(Guitar) and Wilner Felix(bass) and sometimes another brother of mine Robert Felix(bass) who played with Des Jeunes and Top-Compas would join Vickings and they would play with two bass players. They normally do that for Carnaval. They were so popular in the Antilles that followers formed two Vickings in the French Antilles Les Vickings de la Guadeloupe and Les Vickings de la Martinique.December 25, 2014 at 1:39am · Unlike · 3
Jean Luc One of my favorite youtube clips are those from Princess Lover backed with New York All Stars at Matrix (2006).December 25, 2014 at 5:56am · Like · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi yes Ron Felix i remember them now , Martinique was the mecca of music …unforgettable memories …wish there were videos then ..December 25, 2014 at 7:54am · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel Yet another perspective. Le zouk, victime des préjugés de la métropole http://m.rue89.com/#/news/255688 Looking forward to reading more articles about music from Haiti this coming year.Rue89Rue89M.RUE89.COMDecember 26, 2014 at 9:18am · Edited · Like · Remove Preview
Sandra Gabriel Jean Luc please read the earlier comments. Ron Felix andJean Carol Botreau Hgmi talk about Les Vikings. They are both superb and well seasoned musicians. Two of Ron Felix’s brothers were in Les Vikings. Very interesting and informative. Enjoy.December 26, 2014 at 12:09pm · Edited · Like
Edy Brisseaux LolDecember 26, 2014 at 11:00am · Unlike · 1
Gashford Guillaume Edy Brisseaux what’s the “lol” for? Thoughts?December 27, 2014 at 8:33am · Like
Tom Mitchell Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi, I can report that La Perfecta is still going strong; Tabou shared a stage with them a couple of years ago in Les Saintes; they played wonderfully and were a lot of fun to meet and to hang out with. I liked La Selecta, Les Vickings, Gramacks, Exile One, Malavoi, Simon Jurad, the embryonic Kassav’m and all the rest of the groups that were working to create a distinct Antillean sound in those days ; Nestor Azerot and Jacqueline Denis, being Martiniquais in Haiti, both made sure that I checked them out. When Kassav’ found their voice, they became the bright sun that blotted out the stars for 20 years - but if you listen to their earliest albums they were experimenting with the same types of mixtures as the others. Then as now, there were Haitians and Antilleans who wanted to look outside of “home” for sounds and grooves to bring back, and there were others who weren’t so interested in that. It was the “international” konpa bands, Magnum and Tabou, that brought me into the scene, and with the passage of time I have come to love and appreciate the complexities and mixtures happening in EVERY band making any variant of this wonderful music. Any good musician will, hmmmmmmmmmmm, “borrow” from anything that he hears, likes, and thinks that his public will like. It’s only natural that there will be similarities and differences. HOWEVER: IMO Konpa and Zouk might be different branches of the same genetic tree, and their DNA might be matched closely enough that they can make babies with each other, but that doesn’t make them the same thing, not by a long shot.December 27, 2014 at 5:09pm · Unlike · 3
Sandra Gabriel Thanks for commenting Tom Mitchell. It’s always a pleasure to hear/read your point of view.December 27, 2014 at 5:24pm · Edited · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi i agree with you ,Tom Tom Mitchell a word can change the meaning of a discourse and make it not politically correct …instead of saying they are the same thing ,it should rather be , they came from the same roots …great analysis and observation …..i’ve learned a lot from my fellows Antilleans ….December 27, 2014 at 5:26pm · Edited · Like
Sandra Gabriel Gashford Guillaume, my prior comment with the Zouk music article included got lost in translation. I really JUST meant that I was looking forward to reading more articles about music from Haiti. I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic, but when Edy Brisseaux chuckled (lol), I then went back to read what I had written. I recognized that I had made an unintentional double entendre. LolDecember 27, 2014 at 5:34pm · Edited · Like
Sandra Gabriel And yes, indeed there is a musical progression that takes place in any direction depending on the influential factors. Great point.December 27, 2014 at 5:34pm · Edited · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi also i’m glad for La perfecta , i watched them on you tube …i like to watch these videos at night , so i can see my old friends and relive Le bon vieux temps in my dreams …too bad there’ was no videos .from that time ..lolllll.actually 2 musicians from les loups Noirs , live in Martinique and Guadeloupe ..Laurent Ciceron and Henry Pigniat , still active also .December 27, 2014 at 5:57pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Tom Mitchell Oh, in parentheses - Exile One is from Dominica, and somebody correct me, but wasn’t Jeff Joseph of Gramacks, too? - so, being a bilingual country, they heard more soca and calypso down there, and having open minds and a vision like Jeff did, they also helped themselves to some of that and blended it in… hence the “lypso” in “cadence-lypso”… completely natural.December 27, 2014 at 6:53pm · Unlike · 1
Jean Jean-Pierre I believe Ron Felix (your brothers, fine
gentlemen, were friends of mine), my
young brother Gashford, Jean Carol Botreau (pleased to connect with you after
so many years. I always thought you had your own style with les Loups Noirs),
Sandra and Tom Mitchell made, to my view, excellent points on the similarities and differences between Zouk and
Konpa.
“Konpa and Zouk might be different
branches of the same genetic tree…” Tom
Mitchell.
I concur.
Since the 40s, Issa El Saieh, Jazz des
Jeunes (whose music I partially reconstructed in Haiti in 2007), Orchestre
Citadelle, Dòdòf Legros, Michel Desgrottes and Nono Lamy have utilized the
Haitian Kata, more often the strong beats (les temps forts) thereof.
Kata Its origins
The Haitian Kata (1) is found in most
Haitian Vodou based rhythms. From Petwo, to Rabòday, Maskaron and many more,
the Haitian Kata is the common denominator. Superfluous to say Vodou started before the
genesis of Haiti.
Haitian Kata or Kata (1)
What most of the urban groups, bands and
orchestras have used is a quarter note triplets (2) of a 2/4 time signature
(the strong beats). Usually that’s what is played by the right hand when
playing a Haitian kata (1).
Kata derivative or Kata (2)
Among the aforementioned, le Jazz des
Jeunes went so far as to include the Haitian Kata (1) or its derivative Kata (2) in almost every fast tempo song of their repertoire.
Listen to Celina, Ce Yaya etc.
The same triplets are used as bass lines
for Cuba’s Danzon, Puerto Rico’s Danza and other lesser known genres in the
region. In fact, Cuba’s Danzon comes from Haiti’s Meringue Lente. Listen to Choucoune (Michel Mauléart
Monton/ Oswald Durant 1890), Carte Blanche (Occide Jeanty, 1920). Then, listen
to Almandra.
While we are rejecting our own, today Danzón is the official musical genre and dance of Cuba.
Soca,
Calypso and others genres form Latin America to the Caribbean to some hard beas
in the US,
this rhythm form is widely used.
Kata and Konpa
In
the late 60’s, Smith Jean-Baptiste, the creative drummer of Les Schleu Schleu (before
he used to play on the small bell à la Nemours Jean-Baptiste) and the very
disciplined Herman Nau of Tabou Combo began using Kata (2) with 2 hands on the
cymbal -sometimes also
Kata (1)-
in the Konpa Dirèk (before
Herman had introduced brushes in the Konpa). Note that, before them Napoléon, followed by Charles Delva (Ti Charles),
both drummers (they were, at first, timbales players) for Nemours Jean-Baptiste used 2 hands on the cymbal, but playing other
riffs to add colors over Richard Duroseau’s solos. Other times on what we used
to call “breaks”, which are riffs with the whole rhythm section.
Well,
the rest… is history
At
first it was a novelty mixing Kata with Konpa. It is still at times quite interestingly groovy.
As
a drummer, my question was always this: Why using both hands all the
times. I still yet to have a rational answer.
We
all know how insipid this has become
when a drummer plays the Kata (1) or (2)
over the cymbal from the beginning of a song to… its end. Really colorless.
So
everybody from the Martinique and Guadeloupe started using the same Kata on
their version the Konpa Dirèk.
Having
spent 37 years in the United States, I missed quite a few trends. I think Jean
Carol is more knowledgeable than I ever will be on the subject. However, it is
quite evident that the rhythm form used to
play Zouk is nothing more than Kata (2). They have done well in the groove, arrangement, length of the songs and melody sections. Especially Kasav. They have simplified the music as in Pop Music, looping 2 or 4 chord patterns
over a nice groove while the horn section, playing mostly in unison, does
wonderful riffs à la Earth Wind and Fire or Chicago. More disciplined, they
have codified their genre. Very professional, indeed.
But,
please they should always thank Haitians for their creativity and Haiti for its Kata. Some of
those musicians from Martinique and Guadeloupe were schooled by our great
Michel Desgrottes from the mid to late sixties. He was my teacher also. God
bless his soul.
This idea that someone “invented” the Zouk
could not be further from the truth. They have developed it. Very well, I might add. They, obviously, deserve recognition for
that.
Ironically, Haitians have in the past
copied Zouk. We just copied ourselves. Too often through others.
Of course, no culture evolves in a vacuum.
Every culture is influenced by another one.
Best wishes to everyone for the New Year.
Jean Jean-Pierre
www.jeanjeanpierre.com
p��)���December 27, 2014 at 9:59pm · Unlike · 4
Jean Jean-Pierre Sandra I tried to post the musical illustrations of the rhythms, but this would not accept the paste. Do you know how to do it?December 27, 2014 at 10:02pm · Unlike · 3
Jean Jean-PierreDecember 27, 2014 at 10:19pm · Like · 2
Jean Jean-PierreDecember 27, 2014 at 10:20pm · Like · 2
Sandra Gabriel Thank you Jean Jean-Pierre. Very informative. Wow.December 28, 2014 at 12:02am · Like · 2
Sandra Gabriel I would like to save this conversation in our documents with permission. This thread contains very important references, technical information. as well as stories from those of you who have lived it. I appreciate the participation of this conversation. We haven’t all agreed in every point however just about every point of view was compelling and very educational. Priceless! Many thanks. I hope this discussion will not end.December 28, 2014 at 12:13am · Like
Jean Jean-Pierre You’re welcome. One more thing: if one plays the 1/16 rest of the Haitian Kata (1) with the left hand, you got the Martinique and Guadeloupe Biguine. More credits should be given to our Vodou based rhythms.December 28, 2014 at 12:19am · Unlike · 4
Gashford Guillaume Tom Mitchell, I totally understand your point of kompa and zouk not being the “same” but came from the same root. Will be responding as I periodically read through these comments on the go. Jean Jean-Pierre, map vin sou ou! I already know you have a lot to share and bring enlightenment!December 28, 2014 at 1:36pm · Unlike · 2
Gashford Guillaume Great breakdown and info Jean Jean-Pierre from one drummer to another, I appreciate you sharing and teaching!December 28, 2014 at 1:52pm · Edited · Unlike · 2
Sandra Gabriel This thread is a gold mine of information.December 28, 2014 at 2:38pm · Like
Tom Mitchell Well, not exactly the same root, either, because konpa always has that little bit of Congo, Ibo, Petro just under the surface… I don’t know enough about the Antillean folklore to make pronouncements about what it has in common with Haiti, in regards to what came straight from Africa and what they had to reinvent out of what was around them, but I’m not alone when I sa I detect a difference. Also, I have heard lots of legends of how the colons suppressed drums and drumming in some islands, and didn’t worry about it in others (the existence of Congo Square in New Orleans being an example of that). In any case, there are so many incredible tanbourineurs and gongistes from Haiti, actually so many rhythm-section players on all instruments, with an instinct for making that same kata swing in a way completely à part from the way you hear it in Zouk (the fast carnaval-based kind), ZoukLove, Kadans, Soca, Kizomba, Reggaeton, dance-hall Reggae, Second Line, and all the others, that you have to say, “It’s the same tree, but maybe those roots of the tree got some different kind of fertilizer.“December 28, 2014 at 6:29pm · Unlike · 3
Jean Jean-Pierre Gashford Guillaume, it is my pleasure to share what I’ve learned through the years. You see, living in Haiti these days and having the privilege to visit the Lakous Souvnans and Sukri in Artibonite, the Mecca of our immaterial patrimony, I can report to you that, in the face this phenomenon called "Acculturation” that is plaguing the country these days, it is imperative we do what we can to reclaim and preserve our traditions which are integral parts of our culture. Today, in Haiti, on most of the radio stations, Haitian music represents less than 35% of their respective daily programming. Our generosity -please read stupidity- has made us the only country that prioritize foreign music over ours. This is to me suicidal. Our young folks, in general, cannot identify the music of Nemours Jean-Baptiste, let alone Issa El Saieh. This is serious. Imagine, speaking to them about Justin Elie, the first Haitian to play Carnegie Hall in 1921, who wrote the music for 13 films in the US at the beginning of the 29th Century! Between the schools and the media, one would be tempted to say there is a conspiracy.December 28, 2014 at 7:28pm · Unlike · 6
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi Indeed …i don’t wanna get into any debate ,but there’s a book by Amos N Wilson that explains the origin of this phenomena , it is called : The falsification of African Consciousness ..,for a Eurocentric paradigm …It is imperative to act , or counteract ..kudos to you my brother for pointing it out ….December 28, 2014 at 8:55pm · Unlike · 2
Gashford Guillaume Given the fact we were discussig the role of the kata in zouk, I thought this song was interesting. Listen to the “kata” pattern being played with what sounds like the side of the timbale. (ka tika tika-ka tika tika-ka). recorded in the 60’s. This says a lot… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qm_2P18OnYIssa EL Saïeh and his Orchestra - RELE’M (1960s)YOUTUBE.COMJanuary 11 at 12:17pm ·
Edited · Unlike · 3 · Remove Preview
Jean Jean-Pierre Gashford Guillaume, you are ao right. This Saieh’s version of Rele’m illustrates the influnce of our kata in the whole region, whether played in full or just the strong beats. By the way, this recording was done between 1957 and 1958 in Cuba at Radio Progresso. thanks to Fred Paul, the world can have it (and many others) in digital format. But remember Issa El Saieh and Jazz des Jeunes go back to 1941 and 1843 respectively, meaning they recorded those tunes many years later. Meaning the use of the kata predates them , let alone the music from Maerinique and Guadeloupe.January 11 at 1:48am · Unlike · 3
Jean Jean-Pierre …Martinique and Guadelouoe.January 11 at 1:49am · Unlike · 2
Gashford Guillaume This is quite enlightening. We are fortunate to have such recordings to listen to and use as reference. Jean Jean-Pierre, here is a big question for you and anyone who can answer. Clearly, you can feel the kompa kadans or “swing” in rele-m But you do hear rasin and jazz. What would you classify this song to be Haitian genre wise?
Jean Carol Botreau HgmiJanuary 11 at 4:38pm · Edited · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi definitely Gashford Guillaume i can feel the swing more in my mind by slowing down the rythm…as for the kata once the song starts it stays in your subsconscious mind ….until the end . my humble opinion .January 11 at 4:37pm · Like · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi would the term voodoo jazz (vj genre )be appropriate or voodoo jazz ballroom ? ( vjb genre ).., i’ll let the Master ( Buyu Ambroise ) answer ..lolllllJanuary 11 at 4:44pm · Like · 1
Sandra Gabriel I call it classic Haitian Big Band Swing music but this particular rhythm would be classified as a Meringue.January 11 at 5:01pm · Like · 2
Jean Jean-Pierre My opinion espouses thise of Carol and Sandra at rhe same time. The term Vodou/Jaz was coined by Joe Archer in the mid 60’s. Although Saieh preceded Archer, il certainly partially fits the name. So we could say it was Haitian Big Band playinf a fusion of Jazz/Vodou/Haitian Traditional music. Saieh’s musix was arranged by some JaZ masters such as Bud Johnson and Billy Taylor as well as Bebo Valdes (Chucho’s father, Cuba) and Bobby Coxx, Puerto Rico. even the latter two were influenced by US Big Bands like Duke Ellington, Count Bassie, Artie Shaw etc.
Saieh and Jazz des Jeunes were the two orchestras promoting authentic Haitian rhythms by using drummers who used to play in rhe Vodou temples (Ti Roto, Ti Marcel, Jean Remy, Desrouleaux etc. We must also mention that both orchestras played meringue lente and other folklore-based rhythms.
Carol, you’re right to notice that the kata is played all throughout the song. It is, however, more subtle , even subliminal. Whereas the cymbal, as played in today’s music, is a high pitch percussion that cuts through everything, making too obvious and too repetitive at times.
You never playes like that. You used to move from cymbal to the skin to the middle of the ride cymbal.January 11 at 6:38pm · Unlike · 6
Jean Jean-Pierre Sorry for the typos; my fingers are too big for my iPhone.January 11 at 6:40pm · Like · 1
Jean Jean-Pierre Ah! I meant to say Bobby Hicks (not Coxx) from Puerto RicoJanuary 11 at 6:44pm · Unlike · 2
Sandra Gabriel Philip Guibert ProdJanuary 16 at 1:47pm · Like · 1
Edy Brisseaux En effet, le zouk est tout simplement un faux Konpa! As a musician, I refrain myself from getting involved in such a discussion; however, pa gen wout pa bwa in this instance. The notion of zouk and meringue’ DNA cant’t be traced to the father of civilization in the Wst indies can be put to rest both historically and scientifically. We are la Grande Antille; unfortunately, our scientists left Haiti and went to educate many in the Caribbean to our own detriment. If one identifies the quintolet which has been one of backbone rhythm structures of our Meringue Lentes, there is no way an ordinary 4/4 pattern can be the parent of such an advance syncopation; that is, 1/8 ¼ ¼ ¼ 1/8, order varies. I do not want ro deny anyone their African Heritage; but Africa ends in Haiti. I am more interested in giving Jazz it’s birth certificate… Tenez vous bien! Jazz’ s birth certificate is written in Kreyol!…….. Sorry for any typo !January 16 at 3:18pm · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi wow …this is very deep , from Jean Jean-Pierre ,Edy Brisseaux you both are an ocean of knowledge …not only musically , but historically as well ..thank you jean jean for your nice words ., you are a great observer i did have my own style although i became a drummer by watching Arsene Appolon in rehearsal (yes he was loups noirs drummer before me )..Everything is really connected , because what jean jean said about us and the zouk that we were copying ourselves clicked something in my reactive mind by linking what he said with a bigger picture about our history , the Universal History of the original men . Our people are studying themselves, everyday through the Sacred book , never realizing it’s been them all these times . ,( la Grande Antille ) .. My brother Edy Brisseaux , put the nail in the coffin by saying : Africa ends in Haiti …corroborating what Jean Jean-Pierrewas saying …and it just dawn on me that through ones own music you can really get access to your past , because we know vibration is never lost nor created ,everything that was , is ,and will be . ( the Word ). Our history is connected to our music ,our DNA .. the right music can rehabilitate a nation ..the wrong music can also destroy it , and those who are enlightened , those i called the Masters like my 2 friends, and others should be at the forefront of this Renaissance….because there are negative entities who know this truth , and will do whatever they can to hold us back … the elimination of the LP ( melaninated music ) the perfect Circle Vynil (done by design )replaced by cds and other genres of Europeanized music put us way behind … . Our solution is to get to the right Vibration , Our Original form of Music should be Our ETHNICiTY …PeaceJanuary 16 at 5:15pm · Unlike · 4
Jean Jean-Pierre Carol, talking about depth of thought! You are brilliant my brother. Haiti needs you.
Yeah I remember our friend Arsene Appolon inspiring all of us. Loups Noirs (circa 1967-1968) used to play every Thursday night at The Light House in my neighborhood at Thorland. Was not allowed to go out at night. One evening, I sneaked out to catch Arsene, the sensation of that epoch. 2 years later I started playing with Bossa Combo. Les Loups Noirs was not playing Konpa then. Il was the one Nemours Jean-Baptiste introduced in 1955: Demonte Moulen. Longforce was the maestro/conga player. You came later on. You were always more disciplined than Arsene.
Edy, thank you for being so blunt. Ou pa nan kiki. Understood.January 17 at 7:37am · Unlike · 4
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi thank you my brother , but now if we want to talk about super- brilliant., we have to put your name here Jean Jean-Pierre…your last posting made me realize something , when you call me Carol , you mentioned Arsene , LIGHT House ? i said hold it now , the person i’m talking to is not only knowledgeable , but he knows me well , i heard that name and saw it all the times for the past 10 years, so i decided this morning to make a thorough research on you …and that’s when i was shocked to see , i was talking to someone that i’ve been trying to find about for the past 41 years ..i didn’t know that Jean jean Pierre was the great drummer JEAN ROBERT of Bossa combo ..( i thought you lived in FRance )and didn’t know jean pierre….in 1972 or 73 ,Loups Noirs went to MOntreal while we were having sound check about 3pm a young canadian boy , may be 18 years old came and got on the drums, Laurent Ciceron and i couldn’t believe our eyes , then i noticed something the way he was playing, i didn’t know the name then . ( Drum independence , coordination between hands and feet, and bass drum independence )) i was flabbergasted , 3 months after we went to Guadeloupe to play at la cocoteraie with grammacks , after the singer the late jeff joseph finished singing a song he got on the drum and somehow i saw the same techniques , so the next day i went to his hotel and made a deal with him , he will show me some stuff and i will show him some stuff ..that’s when i decided to be a versatile drummer , you When i heard the songs you played with HANSY DESROSE, in 1974 i knew you were on the path to Greatness ..because you demonstrated those techniques on the drums..i always wanted to ask you , How did you know about them yourself at that time when all the other drummers were only concerned about kompa ? Man i’m so happy to find out that we were long time friends , i was always asking myself , what were you doing ? it’s a pleasure to finally find you . my mission was to change the Haitian Gospel Music Industry , that’s why i believed God healed me after i was paralyzed ,and i became the one who introduced drums in haitian churches in NY …inspired hundreds of young drummers , like Gashford Guillaume , my buddy , DOnald Guillaume Fugees , Pe Guiguite, VLad , Stanley …etc..Our LIves is our Mission brother , and by the Grace of God we are still doing it , by the way i was convinced also after i saw the interview that you had with “ Radio Tele SUperstar ” in Haiti ….PeaceJanuary 17 at 12:35pm · Unlike · 2
Jean Jean-Pierre Brother Carol,
I heard your latest cut. That you play so professionally, does not surprise me a bit. You had always have the touch; timbales and drums. In fact, your steadiness and discipline on the drums made Loups Noirs what it was. Laurent and I went to school together. And later on we played a short while in Nyack/Spring Valley, NY. Thanks for tour kinds words. Still learning the drums. Still discovering new techniques. Learned to write for orchestras. Still trying. I’m so glad you’re still playing. Gospel fits you well; you were always a gentlemen. As I said earlier, Haiti needs you. After 37 years away, I'n trying to pay back by contributing in culture and civics.
Ah! The Robert is still in my name. It was dropped by my my editors at the Village Voice because they said it was too long for the U.S. Hey! Had to adjust.bwirkesnon and off there as a journalist for about 10 years. Juggled music and journalism for a while. Edy used to visit, but I never had the chance to play with him as he use to play with my younger brother Jude (also drummer).
Let us keep working for our creator and for Haiti.
Let us use what they both have bestowed on us.
Let’s keep in touch.
Wow! You’re right; 41years!!!!
We started playing at 16!!!
I’m at: [email protected]
Peace and blessings.
(Sorry folks for this rambling post)
Thanks Sandra and Hugo for your indulgence.January 17 at 5:08pm · Unlike · 3
Sandra Gabriel I LOVE the dialogue. I am learning so much. I am thankful that everyone can share their thoughts and experiences.January 17 at 5:13pm · Like · 2
Gashford Guillaume This is great stuff guys. I think Arsene Appolon would enjoy this conversation and share his personal views.January 18 at 4:06pm · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi yeah , i know He knows a lot , he was more aware than me about things , i have to check to see whether he’s on fb …January 18 at 5:39pm · Unlike · 1
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi thank you brother jean jean pierre , i will definitely contact you , we have a lot of things and projects to talk about ..I must ThankSandra Gabriel for this great page of infos and contacts provided here , about our music history ,artists , legends ,and events happening in the HMI ..kudos to you my friend ..keep doing what you are doing sister . Wishing you continued succes .January 18 at 5:53pm · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel Thank you Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi. I appreciate the support. I can’t wait for the website to come into fruition!January 18 at 6:50pm · Like
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi oh ! it’s gonna be great …can’t wait either ..January 18 at 6:52pm · Unlike · 1
Gashford Guillaume Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi, I tagged him. Just click on his name that is in bold. You three are legends. Hmm, we’ll have to make another topic featuring you guys.January 18 at 7:09pm · Unlike · 2
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi yeah , i did bro ..thanks…January 18 at 7:11pm · Unlike · 1
Sandra Gabriel I have enjoyed this discussion enormously. I hope it will continue again in many other series of important conversations. Thanks for the knowledge and different perspectives. Priceless! Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi, Jean Jean-Pierre, Tom Mitchell, Ron Felix, Edy Brisseaux, Jean Luc, and Gashford Guillaume smile emoticonJanuary 26 at 5:12am · Like · 2
Sandra Gabriel Interestingly informative conversation amongst great musicians Marco Esteban Napoleon Napoleon.February 20 at 9:17pm · Like
Napoleon Marco Esteban Napoleon I’m speechless. ..I love ed brisseaux which I call our miles Davis and jc botreau which I had the pleasure to meet @ a record store in bklyn ny. Love you both.February 20 at 9:26pm · Like
Sandra Gabriel Gashford Guillaume, please share your interesting research.March 11 at 9:15pm · Like
Sandra Gabriel “ I’ve researching Bele and biguine. I have to learn more about the roots of the African rhythm before it was blended with the polka/ French influences in the 1930’s. It’s quite an interesting story.” Gashford GuillaumeMarch 11 at 9:42pm · Like
Sandra Gabriel “Talking to Miki, that was his main concern, preserving the roots of his people.” Gashford GuillaumeMarch 11 at 11:14pm · Like
Sandra Gabriel .“ Check out these two quotes. The first is about the origin. The next, when the black musicians blended the music with polka and went to Paris to get more exposure:.” Gashford GuillaumeMarch 11 at 11:15pm · Like
Sandra Gabriel “ Bidgin bélé or drum biguine – originates inslave bélé dances and characterized by the use of bélé drums and tibwa rhythm sticks, along with call and response, nasal vocals and improvised instrumental solos; has its roots in West African ritual dances.
The bélé itself is a huge tambour drum that players ride as though it was a horse. It is characterized, in its rhythm, by the "tibwa” (two wooden sticks) played on a length of bamboo mounted on a stand to the tambour bèlè. Added to the tambour bèlè and tibwa are the maracas, more commonly referred to as the chacha.[3] The cinquillo is beat out by the tibwa, but it translates very well to the chachawhen the rhythms are applied for playing biguine.[4] The tibwa rhythm plays a basic pattern and the drum comes to mark the highlights and introduce percussion improvisations.[5][6] Gashford GuillaumeMarch 11 at 11:16pm · Like
Sandra Gabriel Orchestrated biguineEdit
By combining the traditional bélé music with the polka, the black musicians of Martinique created the biguine, which comprises three distinct styles:
the biguine de salonthe biguine de balthe biguine de rue
Lacking recognition at home, several biguine artists from Martinique moved to mainlandFrance, where they achieved greater popularity in Paris, especially in the wake of the colonial exhibition in 1931. Early stars likeAlexandre Stellio and Sam Castandet became popular in Paris. Between the 1930s and 1950s, the dance beguine was popular among the islands’ dance orchestras.[7] Its popularity abroad died relatively quickly, but it lasted as a major force in popular music on Martinique and Guadeloupe until Haitian compas took over in the 1950s. In the later part of the 20th century, biguine musicians like clarinet virtuoso Michel Godzom helped revolutionize the genre.
Biguine has many features in common with the New Orleans jazz, and have influenced its development. Gashford GuillaumeMarch 11 at 11:17pm · Like
Gashford Guillaume Thanks for sharing some of the things i was researchingSandra Gabriel. I was attempting to upload a small video clip of Martiniquan drummer “Dominique Bougrainville” showing me the proper way to play Biguine along with me practicing the rhythm. One of the things I noticed is how the accents on the snare drum is the same pattern as the “kale senbal” in compa. Also, the “Kata” sound which also goes back to bele music. I will try to figure out how to post what I just edited. Jean Jean-Pierre Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi.March 12 at 12:04am · Edited · Unlike · 3
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi did he show you the original biguine playing it on the snare and the bass drum( while your right foot is still active there ) the modern one is on the snare (kale senbal ) and the floor tom …am i confusing you bro ?March 12 at 12:40am · Edited · Like
Gashford Guillaume Here it is Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5NewpwaRU&feature=youtu.beLearning to play biguineJust a clip of me getting some instruction by drummer from Martinique
http://lenouvelliste.com/lenouvelliste/article/148623/A-60-ans-le-konpa-est-grand-pere-il-enfante-le-zouk-qui-accoucha-du-kizomba
http://lenouvelliste.com/lenouvelliste/article/148623/A-60-ans-le-konpa-est-grand-pere-il-enfante-le-zouk-qui-accoucha-du-kizomba
“Dominique…YOUTUBE.COMMarch 12 at 1:32am · Unlike · 2 · Remove Preview
Jean Carol Botreau Hgmi yeah ..that’s the modern one ..you did exactly what i did in 1969..i’ve learned the major rythms from the late singer Jeff Joseph from Grammacks who shocked me one night when i’ve seen him playing drums at la Cocoteraie ..in a event shared with Les LOups Noirs ..so the next day i went to see him ,and exchanged some stuff ..He loved the kompa …lolMarch 12 at 1:44am · Unlike · 2
Michel Blaise Good information.September 12 at 9:12am · Like
Leonidas Cesar AUDIO PLEASESeptember 12 at 12:15pm · Like
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