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@hiruzen-apologist-moved
so, my blog was flagged explicit, which has made it kind of unusable after the ban, so i have moved to a new blog —> hiruzen-apologist
i will be posting any new content there, and may remake some of the posts from this blog on there so that they are findable in the tag search again.
this blog will no longer be in use, so if you want to keep seeing stuff from me, go follow my new blog!
so, my blog was flagged explicit, which has made it kind of unusable after the ban, so i have moved to a new blog —> hiruzen-apologist
i will be posting any new content there, and may remake some of the posts from this blog on there so that they are findable in the tag search again.
this blog will no longer be in use, so if you want to keep seeing stuff from me, go follow my new blog!
so, my blog was flagged explicit, which has made it kind of unusable after the ban, so i have moved to a new blog —> hiruzen-apologist
i will be posting any new content there, and may remake some of the posts from this blog on there so that they are findable in the tag search again.
this blog will no longer be in use, so if you want to keep seeing stuff from me, go follow my new blog!
so, my blog was flagged explicit, which has made it kind of unusable after the ban, so i have moved to a new blog —> hiruzen-apologist
i will be posting any new content there, and may remake some of the posts from this blog on there so that they are findable in the tag search again.
this blog will no longer be in use, so if you want to keep seeing stuff from me, go follow my new blog!
so, my blog was flagged explicit, which has made it kind of unusable after the ban, so i have moved to a new blog —> hiruzen-apologist
i will be posting any new content there, and may remake some of the posts from this blog on there so that they are findable in the tag search again.
this blog will no longer be in use, so if you want to keep seeing stuff from me, go follow my new blog!
so, my blog was flagged explicit, which has made it kind of unusable after the ban, so i have moved to a new blog ---> hiruzen-apologist
i will be posting any new content there, and may remake some of the posts from this blog on there so that they are findable in the tag search again.
this blog will no longer be in use, so if you want to keep seeing stuff from me, go follow my new blog!
i’m writing some filth for these guys, might post it if any of y’all are interested
oh fuck i didn’t think anyone would be, i’d better hurry and actually finish it now
ok i know it’s been over a month but it’s over 4000 words now i’m still fucking doing this
writers block has been kicking my ASS but i refuse to abandon this because i won’t go back on my word because that is my ninja way (4505 words)
Okay, so I think I understand why it tends to bother me that Hiruzen Sarutobi is so widely hated while both Naruto and Hashirama seem so unanimously loved (by many of the same people), and I’m going to try to explain:
(Disclaimer: a) I 100% get why people hate Hiruzen and don’t think it’s wrong, and b) I don’t think people should hate Naruto and Hashirama either. I love all three of them and think all three have flaws)
There is a recurring character archetype in the series of the uncompromising idealist. This character is highly optimistic and sees the best in people, often overlooking people’s flaws, especially those of the ones they love. They have strong ideals and powerful, undefeatable hope; they will hold out for what is right, and not settle for less. They are very reluctant to acknowledge a situation in which their ideals are not attainable, and they struggle to take a different path according to that reality.
This is an archetype that I think Naruto, Hashirama, and Hiruzen fit into.
Because the series has several embodiments of this archetype, it explores it, and how it plays out, in a few very different ways.
With Naruto, his undying hope and drive to find a solution that didn’t involve anyone being hurt, and his refusal to give up on his friend, turned out to be helpful. Nagato changed his mind, Obito changed his mind, Sasuke came back, people were able to let go of their pain and hatred. It all worked out.
With Hashirama, results were kind of mixed. By striving relentlessly towards his ideal vision, he succeeded in unifying the clans of the village, but Madara (and much of the Uchiha) was still disillusioned. Because of his refusal to give up on his friend, Madara was able to hurt many people — Hashirama could’ve defeated Madara if he was willing to give up on him and kill him, but he wasn’t ready to let go of the idea that he could change him — but ultimately, his commitment to his vision of the village was able to give him the resolve to defeat Madara for the good of the village. Hashirama’s idealism had good and bad results.
Hiruzen is an example of the failings of this archetype. His story illustrates how it looks when things play out badly, and those same traits are a fatal weakness. Many times, his optimism and idealism made him hold onto unrealistic hopes for too long and put off difficult or unpleasant decisions — an inaction that allowed these decisions to fall into the hands of Danzō. He didn’t want to believe that diplomacy might not be able to fix the situation with the brewing Uchiha coup, and he didn’t find a solution fast enough, allowing Danzō to take his own (evil) course of action; he didn’t want to acknowledge the malevolence in Orochimaru and let go of his high hopes for his potential until he had already hurt many people, and even then he couldn’t bring himself to do what needed to be done and kill him; he turned a blind eye to Danzō’s crimes because a) he couldn’t view his friend as a bad person, and b) was somewhat aware of his own faults and relied on Danzō’s ruthlessness to make up for his own softness and hesitation. Time and again, Hiruzen’s uncompromising idealism, optimism, and hope led him to make the wrong decisions and cause (or at least allow) much harm.
So, as different embodiments of this same archetype: Naruto illustrates its potential for great good; Hashirama illustrates its potential for mixed results; and Hiruzen illustrates its potential for great failure and harm.
Hiruzen fucked up real bad. He didn’t want to / couldn’t deal with difficult realities or with seeing evil in people he loved, and his inaction allowed terrible things like the Uchiha Massacre, Danzō’s crimes inside and outside the village, and Orochimaru’s experimentation to take place. Many people were hurt because he failed to do his job. There are many reasons to hate him.
But I think that when it comes right down to it, the main difference between Hiruzen and characters like Naruto or Hashirama is the circumstances. The three characters have similar strengths and weaknesses, but there were different people around to take advantage of them.
It is also worth mentioning that Hiruzen was aware of his failings; he felt great guilt and shame over his mistakes, and he ultimately died doing what he could not before in order to protect the village and its people. It was very, very late, but at least in his last actions he did what needed to be done. This doesn’t make up for his failings, but it makes it a lot more difficult for me to hate him.
Anyway those are my Thoughts
they all had to deal with loved ones doing bad things and needing to be stopped, but like let’s compare these loved ones for a sec
Naruto: Sasuke, who literally had a “no killing innocents” policy until he was at max crazy
Hashirama: Madara. not a great dude towards the end there but at least had the decency to tell Hashirama to his face “yeah i’m leavin the village we enemies now”
Hiruzen: fucking DANZŌ and OROCHIMARU— aka the evilest, sneakiest, and most underhanded fuckers in perhaps the entire series
Naruto NEVER gave up on Sasuke
Hashirama had a rough enough time bringing himself to kill Madara after Madara literally told him “i’m going to destroy the village”. it was hard enough for him to come to terms with the idea that this person he loved was beyond saving and had to be dealt with when he was hearing it directly from said loved one’s mouth.
Imagine having to reach that decision about someone when they are doing everything in their power to hide the bad things they are doing and lying about their intentions
BASICALLY Naruto was playing on easy mode and Hiruzen was playing on extra extra super fuckin hard mode.
Databook 3: Danzo ShimuraÂ
“appreciating famous pictures” read: gazing longingly at old pics of Tobirama
i’m writing some filth for these guys, might post it if any of y’all are interested
oh fuck i didn’t think anyone would be, i’d better hurry and actually finish it now
ok i know it’s been over a month but it’s over 4000 words now i’m still fucking doing this
i’m writing some filth for these guys, might post it if any of y’all are interested
oh fuck i didn’t think anyone would be, i’d better hurry and actually finish it now
still working on it, word count 3792
i’m writing some filth for these guys, might post it if any of y’all are interested
oh fuck i didn’t think anyone would be, i’d better hurry and actually finish it now
okay it’s complete porn without plot, but it’s at 2760 words so far (but there’s still a lot to go bear with me)
3040 words, getting there, sorry for the delay
i’m writing some filth for these guys, might post it if any of y’all are interested
oh fuck i didn’t think anyone would be, i’d better hurry and actually finish it now
okay it’s complete porn without plot, but it’s at 2760 words so far (but there’s still a lot to go bear with me)
i’m still working on it it is getting there
i’m writing some filth for these guys, might post it if any of y’all are interested
oh fuck i didn’t think anyone would be, i’d better hurry and actually finish it now
okay it’s complete porn without plot, but it’s at 2760 words so far (but there’s still a lot to go bear with me)
i’m writing some filth for these guys, might post it if any of y’all are interested
oh fuck i didn’t think anyone would be, i’d better hurry and actually finish it now
i’m writing some filth for these guys, might post it if any of y’all are interested
Tobirama’s decision to make Hiruzen the 3rd Hokage
i think Tobirama’s appointment of Hiruzen as Hokage was decided in that scene we saw in Danzō’s flashback.
of course, Tobirama is a practical person, so especially being at war as they are, he would’ve already given some thought to who his successor would be, and i think he had it narrowed down quite a bit.
Homura and Koharu are not particularly strong (i think that’s mentioned in a databook? idk), so they were out of the running on the basis of power alone. we’re not shown much of Torifu, but given that we weren’t told otherwise, it seems likely that he was an average ninja, and thus similarly not under that consideration. despite not quite being on the level of Kagami or Hiruzen, Danzō’s own power as well as his intelligence earned him serious consideration, but i think by the time they were cornered by the Kinkaku Unit, Tobirama has basically narrowed it down to Hiruzen or Kagami.
however, i don’t think he had any idea which it would be until the scene we saw; i think he knew from the moment they were cornered that he would be the decoy, allowing them to escape, and he made this situation the test that would decide the next Hokage.
Kagami was the one to realize that the best option was a decoy. he demonstrated the ability to recognize what needed to be done in a difficult situation, despite how undesirable it is. but he didn’t volunteer. (why? i don’t know — maybe he has a stronger self-preservation drive? maybe he takes a passive/observational role and it didn’t occur to him that he could be the one to do it? doesn’t matter here)
Hiruzen did not demonstrate that same ability of perception, but he was ready to sacrifice himself for the good of the village and his comrades. he demonstrated his understanding of and commitment to the will of fire.
so how did Tobirama decide? both traits are ones he values and knows are necessary to be hokage. but ultimately i think he chose Hiruzen because as he saw it, the mind could come with time, and be supplemented by outside help; what he saw as most uncompromisable, what needed to be there from the start, from within, was the spirit. while he lacked the mind of a hokage, Hiruzen was the one in which the will of fire burned most strongly. he had the spirit. what he lacked in perception and wisdom, he could learn with time, and could be made up for by trusted advisors like Kagami and DanzĹŤ and the others.
...
DON’T ASK ME HOW THAT ALL ENDED UP WORKING OUT FOR THEM BUT
those are my thoughts on his thought process regarding that
