Illyria Burkle @illyria-and-her-pet - Tumblr Blog

I read through USAG's CAS appeal & imo it is legitimately much worse than the one Jordan's lawyers made.

The only good point USAG made at all was that Romania's 1st official legal filing on August 6th only mentioned that Jordan's Gogean was incomplete + Sabrina was given wrong OOB & that they did not mention Jordan's inquiry was late until an August 8th email.

However, the president of the Romanian gymnastics federation did already mention Jordan's inquiry was late on TV on August 6th. So presumably Romania already suspected the inquiry was late, but didn't find or add evidence until August 8th.

USAG confirms they tried to ask NBC for any video footage they had of Cecile's movements after Jordan's score was posted, but they didn't have any. Only Religion of Sports (Simone's documentary team) had audio of Cecile's verbal inquiry (no video tho).

USAG lawyers also use the same exact 49/57 sec numbers Jordan's lawyers use, which contradicts their PR statement of 47/55 sec. They also acknowledge there is a "difference of a few seconds between Omega's time & Religion of Sports time" at 15:32:17 vs 15:31:52 but claim it is "irrelevant since what matters in this case is not the exact time, but the 60 sec lapse of time following the display of Jordan's score," ignoring the fact that having exact times likey make the difference between whether Cecile was on time or not. They don't argue any delay between Omega vs OBS or arena scoreboard, just claim it irrelevant 💀. They also acknowledge it took 47 seconds for Cecile to leave at all, but still claim she made it on time at 49 seconds because the table is a few meters away. Jordan's own lawyers said the same thing, but they seconds to reach the waiting area with Jordan after leaving the inquiry officers table + we have video proof it took both Laurent & Cecile 10-14 seconds to reach the waiting area from the inquiry officers. USAG also admits Cecile left the inquiry table at 15:32:55 & quotes the inquiry officer as having told Cecile she actually needs the d score to complete the inquiry at 15:32:57.

USAG also says Cecile argued at the original hearing that she made it on time because NBC live video shows the inquiry was announced 35 seconds in the arena after Jordan's score had been posted. This is impossible as USAG's own video proves NBC posted Jordan's score 4-5 seconds after OBS did & they admit Cecile doesn't leave until 47 sec mark. That means the earliest Cecile could have left in NBC video was 42 sec mark, not 35 seconds. We also have video from the official Olympic replays showing when Jordan's score was announced in the arena:

This Artistic Gymnastics session took place at the Bercy Arena, France, on 05/08/2024. It includes the Finals for Men's Parallel Bars, Women

3:31:50 Arena announcer anounces score for Jordan

3:33:26 Arena annoucer announces inquiry for Jordan

3:33:45 Commentators realize Jordan inquiry was accepted

3:33:50 Arena announcer announces inquiry has been accepted

That means there was 1 minute and 36 seconds between the arena announcer announcing Jordan's score vs Jordan's inquiry, not 35 seconds. I don't have the NBC video but I'm pretty sure Laurie & Justin didn't announce the inquiry 35 seconds after the score was posted when I watched live.

Finally USAG claims decreasing the amount of medals they won directly causes them economic and moral harm because the number of Olympic medals won by its gymnasts contributes to their "aura" & "ability to attract and develop high level gymnasts to achieve it's social purpose."

angelwalking

Was Simone’s inquiry submitted on time and the inquiry officer fucked up or was Laurent too late ?

illyria-and-her-pet

It sounds like before Sabrina's score came up Laurent only inquired about Simone's leap, but never declared an intended d score so the inquiry officer was never able to submit a d score number for Simone's written inquiry. He already left & by the time he came back to ask again after Jordan's routine was finished, it was too late.

I think the Landis legit didn't know you needed to give the inquiry officers an intended d score 💀. Cause Cecile also was already walking away without giving the inquiry officer an intended d score, but in her case the inquiry officer calls her back so Cecile can give 5.9 for the written inquiry.

angelwalking

I didn’t know you had to give an intended d score with the verbal inquiry, I thought you only had to do that afterward with the written. It’s not clear in the TR. but if that is accurate then uh. Wow

illyria-and-her-pet

You need intended d score for the written inquiry, not verbal inquiry. Inquiry officer already submitted at 1:04 verbal inquiry for Jordan from Cecile without hearing an intended d score. Cecile leaves not knowing it is needed, but is called back by the inquiry officer who submits written inquiry with 5.9 d score for Jordan at 1:19. So basically for Cecile/Jordan, inquiry officer calls her back when she is leaving so they can get written on time, but for Laurent/Simone he leaves before written inquiry can be submitted & doesn't come back until it's too late.

If the Landis didn't know you need to declare intended d scores for inquiries & Camelia didn't know you are allowed to inquire neutral deductions, is this a FIG problem for their inquiry rules/procedures not being clear enough or a coaching/competence problem? 🤔

angelwalking

Was Simone’s inquiry submitted on time and the inquiry officer fucked up or was Laurent too late ?

illyria-and-her-pet

It sounds like before Sabrina's score came up Laurent only inquired about Simone's leap, but never declared an intended d score so the inquiry officer was never able to submit a d score number for Simone's written inquiry. He already left & by the time he came back to ask again after Jordan's routine was finished, it was too late.

I think the Landis legit didn't know you needed to give the inquiry officers an intended d score 💀. Cause Cecile also was already walking away without giving the inquiry officer an intended d score, but in her case the inquiry officer calls her back so Cecile can give 5.9 for the written inquiry.

I 100% believe if Romania only had their own arena footage claiming Cecile's inquiry was late & FIG never did official time keeping, Jordan would have kept her bronze as CAS would have ruled it too subjective, human error, or field of play decision. CAS rightfully threw out Romania's 84 second claim & are rightfully accepting FIG's official omega time stamps that say 64 seconds. Contesting FIG official time records with video evidence from either Romania or USAG is irrelevant just like contesting Sabrina's OOB with NBC camera angles.

I'm never believing English speaking gymternet rumors again cause the rumor that FIG had no official time system and Romania and FIG both had in arena videos showing 64 seconds ended up completely wrong 💀. Meanwhile all the reports coming out of Romanian sources have ended up accurate. I literally thought they were lying about Cecile's inquiry being late so something would stick but they had video evidence the whole time & mentioned it day 1 + Omega timing vindicated them. FRG announced Ana's appeal was successful, while Sabrina's was denied 1st too. And now they were the first to announce CAS rejected USAG appeal.

This is the journalist who wrote the informative Gozalo article that broke down Omega vs Longines inquiries, Romania timing vs US timing vs Omega timing, the OOB cameras + inquiries, the d score inquiries, & FIG IOC FRG USAG stances on medal allocation. It's actually insane how much more competent Romania's lawyers have been than USAG's if it's true that USAG's "conclusive evidence" is BETHANY LOBO video. If they used cut up fan videos with Samsung metadata sent to Cecile's Twitter DMs, that is truly EMBARRASSING. I hope they at least had NBC, OBS, documentary, or arena footage.

#if usag used fan videos from TWITTER they probably got laughed out of court omg #it would get thrown out faster than romania arena footage #i hope theyre not actually that incompetent #but if so it explains why that bethany lobo girl is having a meltdown #people really gassed her up and thought she could overturn a cas decision with random meta data clips #its not even uninterrupted footage either

Cazul de la Jocurile Olimpice, cu Ana Maria Bărbosu, Sabrina Voinea și Jordan Chiles în prim plan.

I highly recommend reading the entire article, but wow this is really all happening because the Omega technology SUCKS. It doesn't automatically close late inquiries unlike Longines & you can't properly see if the heel touches OOB or not on their cameras.

Also both FRG (84 seconds) & USAG (47 or 55 seconds) have zero case for the video evidence now. Romania claims Cecile only left after 46 seconds & it takes 15 seconds to get to the judges' table. I assume USAG is claiming those 46 seconds she left at is when she 1st verbally inquired & then she got to the judges table quick enough in 55 seconds to do a 2nd verbal inquiry. But neither of their claims matter because the Omega system already recorded the exact second Jordan's score was posted & the exact time Cecile's inquiry was recorded (64 seconds).

Finally USAG & FRG agreed to 3 bronze medals for Sabrina, Jordan, & Ana but IOC said no cause it would devalue Olympic medals. FIG asked for 2 bronze medals for just Jordan & Ana, but CAS said no cause it defeated the purpose of the appeal proving the inquiry was late & changing the results.

#wow this might be ioc fault more than fig #wtc is still incompetent for accepting that gogean inquiry #but ioc is the one who forces them to use omega at the Olympics #while fig uses longines which is superior at worlds #and fig tried to get joint bronze medals #but ioc said no

So Romania claimed to have video evidence Cecile took 84 seconds & USAG claims to have video evidence Cecile took 47 or 55 seconds, but the entire time FIG has had official Omega time keeping that says Cecile took 64 seconds. CAS will surely uphold official electronic time entries over any subjective video evidence.

Now that we know FIG has had official omega time keeping for their inquiries this whole time, CAS made the right decision. It went from being a subjective field of play decision if it was based on video evidence or there was no time keeping the whole time to indisputable objective procedure error that is officially on record. If FIG was never keeping record, it could be human error like Sabrina OOB. But yeah omega is indisputable unlike video evidence, human timekeeping, stop watches, etc.

Well it turns out FIG has more technology & procedures in place than I thought... They have official omega time keeping for inquiries & you can actually inquire NDs like OOB or time deductions. Coaches need to submit their inquiries on time & for the right thing. But ultimately it's still FIG's fault & they need to make sure this doesn't happen again. WTC superior jury needs to automatically reject late inquiries & not credit dance elements their own help desks say should be downgraded. Line judges need better technology, view, or replay than tiny monitor screens. And most of all, gymnasts shouldn't be punished for FIG's mistakes. Donatella resign challenge. She deserves the consequences. Not Jordan, Sabrina, or Ana.

#fig finally did something right by having official time inquiries #but now they look even more like clowns for accepting late inquiries #ideally fig judges superior jury wtc etc would do everything right from the beginning #and have the technology or replays to do that etc #but it turns out the coaches do have the proper avenues to dispute judging errors #so rip camelia is stupid for not inquiring nd #and cecile is dumb for being late on her inquiry & including a gogean that never gets credit in the 1st place #i originally thought neither did anything wrong & were using the only avenue that they had via d score inquires #but well it turns out we all need to read the cop more

lobaznyuk

Rebeca Andrade training the Triple Twisting Yurchenko.

I was waiting for the NBC Primetime angles to confirm whether Sabrina went OOB or not and she was clearly in bounds omg. FIG actually robbed her. She would have been 13.8 and won bronze without the 0.1 ND.

AA final: Suni goes OOB on vault, but line judge misses it & she avoids 0.1 ND

FX final: Sabrina stays in bounds on floor, but line judge incorrectly calls it OOB

Missing out of bounds is one thing, but inventing one is way worse. Giving gymnasts the benefit of doubt or missing deductions in real time is one thing. Inventing deductions that don't exist is completely worse.

Even if FIG never changes the results, they need to give an explanation for what the ND is and change things so there is robots, sensors, video review, you're able to inquire NDs, etc. so this doesn't happen again.

This is like the most blatant error FIG has ever made because e score and even d scores or incorrect start values can be subjective. OOB is completely objective, you're either in or out and Sabrina was in.

Also I feel like this is worst even then what happened to Yang Tae-young since they didn't file an inquiry until the competition was over. Sabrina's coaches immediately filed an inquiry and even tho d scores are for inquiry only that has to change. Also Nadia isn't a coach or part of the federation but she allegedly complained about the score immediately too and chief judge told her Sabrina went OOB but they were literally lying.

The contrast between Tokyo where you had to downgrade elements to win because judges were rightfully so strict on them vs Paris where everyone's questionable elements didn't matter is crazy. In Tokyo Suni had to remove her 4th pass to win AA & Jade had to remove her double L turn to win floor gold. Meanwhile in Paris, Rebeca downgraded Gogean didn't even matter for floor gold cause Simone took 0.6 in OOB ND. Suni downgraded double L turn in AA final didn't matter for bronze because they decided to credit her beam dismount & missed her OOB on vault. Jordan Gogean didn't matter in floor finals cause WTC superior jury decided to accept her inquiry after D panel rightfully downgraded it. Why are we going backwards in routine composition & judging? Like these skills should not have still be in their routines 🫤🫤🫤.

#im very happy rebeca still won floor gold tho and that didnt affect the result #if she lost floor gold over her dance elements being downgraded I would have been devastated #still it sucks suni and jordan composition issues affected medals #i would have supported them medalling if they took out their problematic skills #but to keep them and instead get rewarded by judges for it is a mess

I can't believe the judges accepted the inquiry for Jordan's Gogean. It's literally a quarter short with her still turning on the ground. Literally no d panel ever from 2017-now would accept this except for this one. I feel really bad for Ana. I thought the judges were cracking down on form and dance elements in finals hence Ana beating out Sabrina and Jordan but then Sabrina's inquiry got rejected while Jordan's was accepted.

It makes ZERO sense that this OYS triple twist got downgraded to a 2.5 twist

Found the NBC front angles of Suni TF & AA dismounts. Can't find QF cause NBC deleted their daytime/ET coverage & only have international feed, but iirc it was basically the same as TF- off to the side & out of line with the beam, but better form, rotation, and landing. Her AA dismount is actually extremely interesting. One foot actually IS IN LINE with the beam so this shouldn't get downgraded to the side variant. However one leg is clearly TUCKED. And she is still twisting into the ground and UNDERROTATED.

So QF/TF should have been credited as a LAYOUT Gainer FULL off the SIDE of the beam (B), but AA should have been credited as a TUCKED Gainer HALF off the END of the beam (doesn't exist in the code of points, but I think would be B like gainer tuck or pike at the end of the beam).

But wow welcome back Maria Paseka and Shawn Johnson Amanars getting reincarnated into Suni's starfish gainer pucked 3/4 off the end of the beam! Also judges are extremely harsh on rotation even if they aren't on alignment/layout position so idk how this got credit even more now, especially when Kinsella and OYS triple twists on floor got downgraded.

Also at this point we have to accept that Suni's "Steingruber" is as bad as Shallon's "Cheng" cause it's completely unrecognizable & she's creating her own random skills/variants. It sucks cause I thought it was better at the domestic meets unless they just never had front angle.

I feel like the judges are going to keep crediting her dismount the entire Olympics, but then will eventually release a help desk where they say her dismount should actually be downgraded. Like when ZQY Yurchenko Loop got counted as fall, but then FIG released a help desk saying it shouldn't have counted as a fall.

#also i guess this is the ultimate proof that actually doing your dismount off the end of the beam and in line with it is way harder #cause when suni was out of line and off to the side of the beam aka cheating the skill she managed decentish form rotation and landings #but the one time she actually managed to be in line with the beam she had to heavily tuck pike down and underrotate to get it to her feet

E scores are more "subjective," so I take more issues with missed d score & neutral deduction errors. Judges missing Suni vault OOB for 0.1 ND is inexcusable. I originally thought her beam was like TF where at least they were hard on her e score even if d score was a gift, but no the d score today was actually inexcusable. I already thought crediting the dismount in QF/TF was generous, but you could at least argue those were borderline. The dismount was much worse today & there's no excuse for not downgrading it. It was clearly TUCKED even in real time. So even if you don't downgrade 0.4 to B for it being off to the side like they should have in TF/AA, you have to downgrade at least 0.3 to C for gainer tuck 1/1! If it was just the vault OOB or the dismount was done at least to the level of QF/TF, you could say well Suni would still have won by 0.032 if they took 0.1 OOB. But no that dismount was the worst she has ever competed it & she got gifted 0.3-0.4 in d score & with the vault overall 0.4-0.5. It should have been Alice 56.333, Suni 55.965. Losing by 0.132, when you should have won by 0.4. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Wishes for Rebeca skill selection: Add the Amanar and 2nd LOSO on beam. If Fabrichnova and whip-Chuso are going well in training, feel free to add as well. DON'T add the full in on beam. Get rid of the Gogean on floor. As for TTY well we will see, but I think Amanar is safer.

illyria-and-her-pet

Hello everyone I'm back and I'm here to complain about the subdivision 2 scoring cause it was absolutely disgusting to see it happen literally in the same division.

I can't believe we got Rio 2.0 with how everyone was getting overscored except for China when they were literally rotating at the same time as USA & Kaylia+ we just saw the scores GB & Romania got.

They really tried to FYL QQY, but they can't and she will still make UB finals! They better not rob her in EF cause it makes no sense! Only 8.266 E when Kaylia got 8.5, Suni got 8.466, ZYH got 8.3, Jordan got 8.266, and Simone got 8.233??? How??? And Suni score only 0.2 less than QQY despite having 0.4 less in difficulty... I fear it Suni hits the 6.6 routine they would try to put it ahead of QQY's 6.8, which is just no!

Gutted QQY fell on the Arabian but I am manifesting her hitting the 7.2 on UB and being undeniable. It should be neck and neck with QQY-Kaylia and I still want them top 2 no matter the order, but I want fair judging! And it seems like judges are willing to put Kaylia far ahead of QQY or even ahead if Kaylia hit 7.0, while QQY hits 7.2. They're even trying to get Suni close to QQY when QQY and Kaylia should be far away from her.

Also Jordan was robbed from AA finals idc! Yes both Jordan and Suni were overscored e score wise on UB/BB, but Suni got gifted 0.4 in d score on beam which made the difference. Her beam score was literally insane especially with how beam has been scored since 2017 and the most overscored routine of the last two quads. 14.0 with 8.0 E and 6.0 D when it was giving 5.6 D and 7.5 E is an insane difference...

I am manifesting a judging 180 where QQY UB e scores are fair and Suni dismount gets downgraded to B for not being in line. The only thing that will stop me from being mad is judging being fair in the finals. Cause Suni is awesome and I love her beam when she hits it like Nats Day 2, but based on QF she cost Jordan AA final and she is going to cost someone beam final. I just hope the dismount doesn't affect any of the standings in TF, AA, or BB EF otherwise I will go even more insane!

Simone is truly insane tho having one of her best competitions of the year despite the calf pain. Idk how she did it and still managed the triple double, YDP, and Cheng. Like in vault warmups she put the YDP to her knees and her Lopez timer looked terrible yet she put both to her feet, did YDP with 9.4 E, and the Cheng honestly looked better amplitude and form wise then podium training. I hope she stays healthy through finals.

ZYQ is a smart queen just doing 6.6 d score beam to get into finals yet she still will qualify 1st to beam EF. She better win beam EF or its joever. Also 8.266 E so at least judges were kind to her. Idk why they are QQYphobic!

I feel bad for Jade. Both in PT and QF she couldn't do her dismount and ended up with just a layout or back tuck. Hezly also didnt do too well on BB or UB. I wonder if this means in TF, Jordan will do BB over Hezly and Suni will do floor over Jade.

huidanpikejaeger

Also kaylia getting 7.1, even though throughout FIG World Cups the judges downgraded her tkachev half. I’m like oh Olympic judges are being generous…. But not to QQY i see. It’s giving Spridonova Rio quals bars judging.

illyria-and-her-pet

Kaylia upgraded her routine by adding the inbar 1/1 before the Nemour and a toe full before the DLO for extra 0.2. So she actually attempts 7.4 (but would only get 7.2 credit to tie QQY max) now. Today she missed the Pak + Komova II, so she only got 7.1 instead of 7.3. Now if they credited the 7.3 or started giving Ricna 1/2 credit for extra 0.2 I would be super mad cause she never gets it cause of the mixed grip catch and it would be truly shameless.