[s0re-loser]

This is making me cry actually

[roomba-with-knives-taped-to-it]

I genuinely love the fact that it doesn’t matter cis or trans, all middle aged men dress like that™️

[mean-transhet]

Okay that last post was it for me. I had to insult a terf at least once. I hope the trans people spouting hate enjoy the fact that terfs are coming in and taking over their spaces while the rest of us are leaving. Play nice.

[pallpokipoki]

You keep saying that transfems are your allies. But what's the evidence for that ?

Historically, when you look at the place of transmascs in trans spaces and movements, they were treated by transfems in the same way as they are today. Transmascs from those periods voiced the same complaints (eg Lou Sulivan) as transmascs do today. Again, what allies ? Apart from a certain convergence that existed because of some common, generic interest related to gender transition, we can't really say, and especially not with your insistence, that historically transfems have been the allies of transmascs.

Transfems are not and have never been your allies.

[mean-transhet]

Take your nasty vagina cult nonsense out of here. You will never belong in trans spaces. Living in your fantasy world makes more sense to you than the real world so you lie to yourself. You'll lie about lying to yourself. You'll probably say we're the ones doing it and project onto us. But the fact remains. In our space, you don't matter.

The earth didn't care if people thought it was flat for many years. It was round the entire time.

Just because you believe that radfem shit doesn't mean I'm female. I'm male and I'm a proud trans male.

Say it with me: Trans men are MEN, trans women are WOMEN, nonbinary people are NONBINARY.

If you cis people spent more time working on the problems people like you made instead of bothering trans people, you could actually have a decent life. But I guess you'd rather play victim.

The wedge in the trans community isn't the radfem shit you think it is. Both in and out of the trans community, groups of vulnerable people, especially women BOTH CIS AND TRANS, are projecting their trauma onto a group that is socially acceptable to abuse.

It's a trauma response. Not a conspiracy. The only group that's a problem is cis people. THAT INCLUDES CIS WOMEN.

You're not an ally. You can't even get the language right. That's one of the most basic parts of the trans experience. You sure as hell can't handle the more difficult topics.

Remember to vote for reproductive rights so we can abort people like this.

[mean-transhet]

A lot of you are better at wording things than me. I know I come off as abrasive, but it's quite the opposite. I'm just done with people who hide behind civility. I'd rather let others talk about this stuff since I've basically said everything I needed to say.

I'm gonna go have fun now.

[mean-transhet]

I don't think the anti transandrophobia trans men realize I'm laughing at them.

I've met people like them in real life. Same for the trans fems that spout this shit.

If you confront them, they cower. Nobody really likes them. The envy in their eyes is apparent. And most of the time, people in real life see through their bullshit.

If you don't pass as a trans man, anti transandrophobia trans men get ESPECIALLY bitchy. They call you "theyfab" as if these people weren't born with the same body as them.

This isn't even mentioning the difficulty in accessing medical care, if the person even wants that, and if they don't then cool.

And you know how they accuse trans mascs of hijacking the conversation?

This is literally what they do. They act the most like MRAs because they feel dysphoric by the convo and take it out on other trans guys in the most diva way possible. It's not as manly as they'd like to imagine.

[borrowmyshovel]

there is an odd poetry to the way people speak about trans men. the way conversation about them is made entirely in their absence, if not outright exclusion. strangely fitting, that a group of people killed and buried in secresy by their own families, would have their words and experiences overwritten by their supposed allies. Allyship is a comforting narrative spoken over a grave.

[anomalousmancunt]

"trans men are still privileged as men" arguments are hilarious in my current situation. Gee, should I go talk to the president then? tell 'im he cannot challenge access to abortion specifically for trans men because we share male privilege? if I knew it was that easy I wouldn't be considering hysterectomy this seriously, dang.

I also should probably go talk to the therapist that tried conversion therapy on me, specifically citing that I didn't "need" to be a man, that there was no trait that "made" me a man so clearly I was just too dumb to notice I didn't have to be one. Oh, and to the teacher that saw me as the perfect target for sexual harassment because I was a young boy and clearly needed reminding of how feminine I could (should) be. Turns out that shouldn't have happened at all, or maybe even didn't - male privilege, after all.

[borrowmyshovel]

the understanding of transandrophobia will remain incomplete as long as we describe the trans community as an incidental participant rather than an enthusiastic one. There can be no analysis of trans men's erasure that is of any use to anyone, unless we start taking into account the ways erasing, infantilising and demonizing trans men benefits trans people of all genders. Until we understand that we're not dealing with a million oopsie-daisies, but with a motivated pattern of behavior - not in the sense of some kind of master plan, but of a system of incentives that make transandrophobia beneficial to the people enacting it. We're stuck playing whack-a-mole with symptoms of a sickness that's been passed down in the community since before the time of Magnus Hirschfeld.

[eliyahu613]

wait, "transandrophobia truther" is an antisemitic term? i didn't know that! (not that i find that hard to believe...)

could you explain why that is, though? more because of curiosity than anything

many transmasc jews have remarked that "truther" is a culturally loaded word that refers to antisemitic conspiracy theories, so therefore shouldn't be used to talk about real oppression.

[swordbeliever]

tried to vent in a trans space about how, as a trans man who’s been on T for a long time (over 7 years now), i have noticed that the more i pass as a man, the less welcomed i am in queer spaces unless i go out of my way to feminize myself. and how that sucks! and it’s isolating!!! and it feels horrible to see ppl who used to like you and be close to you drift further and further the more masculine (& therefore more comfortable in urself) u become…

only to get ppl replying to me and saying “well if you dressed more fem then ppl wouldn’t be intimidated by you. you signed up for this”

i’m sorry but i didnt sign up for social isolation when i transitioned, i signed up for gender euphoria and comfort in myself and my life. and i had hoped that the ppl in my life would be able to see how much joy that brings me and continue to love me.

[gay-otlc]

you're oppressed because you're trans not because you're straight. if you took trans out of the equation you wouldn't struggle for being straight and male. is this really hard to grasp

Okay but the thing is, you can't take being trans out of the equation. In some hypothetical universe where I am a cishet man, true, I wouldn't struggle for being straight and male. But it's pointless to discuss that hypothetical, because in the real universe, I am trans. I am straight in a trans way and I am male in a trans way and these are not aspects of my identity that can be pulled apart and analyzed separately. You can't just take parts of my identity out of the equation because it's more convenient for you. Is this really hard to grasp.

[mean-transhet]

The experiences of trans fems and trans mascs aren't opposites. Trans mascs talking about the specific kind of transphobia we deal with isn't transmisogynistic. Trans fems aren't the center of trans masc issues.

[mean-transhet]

I've noticed a lot of the trans men who are against the idea of transandrophobia were able to afford consistent hormone treatment and surgeries.

They're derailing conversations about transandrophobia like the MRAs which they claim we secretly are.

We call this irony.

[mean-transhet]

Anti-transmasculine people all do the same thing. Misinterpret, assume, and play victim when they say the foulest shit about trans mascs. These people don't understand transphobia, misogyny, or intersectionality.

[civilization-deactivated2030]

i wonder what these tumblr transandrodorks will do when they hear a black person say white people arent the target of antiblackness.

[mean-transhet]

It's almost like we're talking about gender and not race so the comparison makes no sense in this context.

Gender is mutable. Race isn't. This comparison low-key implies the existence of trans racial identities.

But that's what happens when you use race as a gotcha without actually putting effort into highlighting the similarities between these issues.

Try a little harder next time.

[civilization-deactivated2030]

"But what if a white person got mistaken for a mixed race person huh!?" the idiots like you in the comments would say LOL.

[mean-transhet]

I said nothing like that.

Once again, what you say relies on false assumptions because you can't actually back up what you say.

[civilization-deactivated2030]

"What about the degree of mutability makes it impossible for me to be a target of an oppression? were all hurt by systems of oppression, do you think every racist can perfectly tell black from white people every time? what are you a racist, do you think race is biologically predetermined and not socially constructed?" the notes would ring out with hundreds of yall Real Oppression Understanders™ *eyeroll* LOL

[mean-transhet]

Completely dodged the point I made, purposefully misinterpreting because once again, you can't counter what I'm actually saying. Keep building those strawmen.

Edit: I think you actually made an argument against yourself lol

[civilization-deactivated2030]

LOL REALLY GONNA HIT ME WITH THE "WHY WONT YOU DEBATE ME?"? REALLY!? YOU CANT FIGURE OUT WHY??? ON MY POST? LOLOLOLOLOL

your really talking about the important issues right now LOL, Such low grade reddit libertarian energy LOL

[mean-transhet]

[civilization-deactivated2030]

LOL WHY ARE YOU DEFLECTING WHY WONT YOU DEBATE ME?! LOL

for the rest of you:

When you refuse to understand oppression, you always become the same reactionary. Please learn about structural transmisogyny and "mens movements" of the past so you dont fall victim to the programming again. <3 I love you, you can get better. I believe in you.

[mean-transhet]

Once again, putting words in my mouth. This isn't a debate thing. This is just called being able to communicate with others instead of lashing out like a toddler.

Low effort emotion manipulation is embarrassing. Work on fixing your own problems so you won't feel threatened when others work on theirs.

[mean-transhet]

A lot of the anti-transandrophobia trans men won't admit that talking about misogyny against trans men causes them dysphoria. Like we're low-key calling trans men girls or whatever. It's very telling on their part but guess what?

We have a better word:

TRANSANDROPHOBIA

[trans-androgyne]

Transandrophobia theory is not incompatible with transmisogyny theory. Look into my eyes and understand this, I’m begging you.

Quote from Julia Serano’s 2021 article “What is Transmisogyny”: “For others (e.g., certain nonbinary people, trans male/masculine-spectrum people), misogyny may intersect with transphobia in different ways that aren’t adequately articulated by transmisogyny. This doesn’t necessarily make transmisogyny ‘wrong’; it may simply mean that we need additional language.”

From her 2016 article “Articulating Transmisogyny”: “I have observed people using ‘trans-misogyny’ as shorthand to suggest that ‘trans men are privileged, and trans women oppressed, end of story.’ I reject such oversimplifications.”

We are not on opposite sides. There are large misunderstandings at work here. Transmascs are as capable of (trans)misogyny just as much as anyone else, AND they have experiences with the intersection of transphobia and misogyny. These things can both be true.

[snoopyisbisexual]

Ngl taking 1 trans woman's quote out of context as evidence you are oppressed for being a man is not compelling and is part of the reason people clown on y'all.

[mean-transhet]

JULIA SERANO LITERALLY WROTE THE BOOK ON TRANSMISOGYNY.

THIS ISN'T TAKING ONE TRANS WOMAN OUT OF CONTEXT.