i don’t think we should kill criminals but jason looks sexy doing it so it’s ok i forgive him
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@nananana-batfannn
i don’t think we should kill criminals but jason looks sexy doing it so it’s ok i forgive him
every time i see a post talking about how alfred pennyworth failed bruce for not getting him into therapy as a kid i want to scream.
it did not exist. the idea that children could have PTSD was just starting to be discussed in the late 80s/early 90s at the FRINGE of child psychology, and then trauma therapy even for adults spent an unhelpful 2ish decades dominated by forced-conversation talk therapy. that's a thing that is detrimental to trauma recovery, because if someone doesn't feel safe or in control of the dialogue about their trauma and is repeatedly asked to describe their trauma when they're uneasy, it COMPOUNDS TRAUMA AND FEELINGS OF DANGER.
when bruce was a kid, even the best psychs available would have had training that taught them kids bounce back, that kids don't respond to or handle trauma the way adults do, and that any behaviors post-trauma were almost certainly unrelated mental illness.
i see this esp in fandom circles but a gentle reminder that therapy even when it's good doesn't fix everything. even if bruce had HAD access to good childhood PTSD therapy, he would still have grief, he would still potentially be socially awkward or withdrawn, he might have still decided to be Batman because it's a comic book where being a vigilante isn't as wild as it is irl.
therapy requires honesty, readiness, safety, sound application of theory, an accurate picture of life outside the therapy room (self-reporting is often flawed!), consistency, and more! it can help but it doesn't erase trauma or grief. it's dismissive of the history of trauma therapy to say an adult "should have" had a kid in a therapy approach that didn't exist, and it's dismissive of the actual work of therapy to act like therapy would have made everything ideal. bruce isn't going to be a normal, well-adjusted adult because his parents were murdered in front of him. he could be happy! he could have coping skills! but honestly it would be weirder if he didn't wrestle with residual trauma and grief throughout his life.
and maybe this is just because i love Batman, and love specifically Batman as a symbol/figure of hope and sacrifice and the belief that every life matters, but I don't think the worst ending here is Bruce deciding to give up a lot of his time, energy, and health to work in Gotham AND then choose to parent a traumatized child and actively meet his needs. like you think the alternative is that Alfred is a better parent by getting him into non-existent therapy and then he stays comfortably wealthy at home and is just another rich dude? that's the ideal version? the one who can't help Dick Grayson because Dick Grayson wants to run away and murder a man?
anyway tl;dr alfred should have flaws, yes, but there's a big gap between "flawed human parental figure" and "man who massively failed Bruce in multiple ways, one of which was not putting him in therapy."
just fyi bc i don't think i made it clear: even in the initial decade of acceptance of childhood PTSD, the approach would have been a therapist asking bruce to describe the night his parents died. over. and over. and over. and over.
because of the belief that discussing it would process the trauma.
there were kids in foster care in this era that flat-out refused to go to therapy or speak at all while there because therapy was them being asked to describe, in detail, exactly what the abuse was, on repeat. it hurt a LOT of people even while we were struggling to get better at treating them.
Y’all. PTSD wasn’t even an official diagnosis in the DSM until 1980 (DSM-III). And even then, it was *controversial* in the field, because it was due to an external stressor. (Never mind that ‘refrigerator mothers’ had been blamed for psychotic symptoms for decades at that point because misogyny.)
Plus, you have to think about the fact that, initially, a stressor that met criteria for a diagnosis included things like combat, natural disaster/situation in which your life was in danger, or sexual assault. Although, this wasn’t explicitly stated. The criteria just said ‘Existence of a recognizable stressor that would evoke significant symptoms of distress in almost everyone.’ This was updated in the revised version to specify that a traumatic event included ‘serious threat to one's life or physical integrity; serious threat or harm to one's children, spouse, or other close relatives and friends; sudden destruction of one’s home or community; or seeing another person who has recently been, or is being, seriously injured or killed as the result of an accident or physical violence.’
How old is Bruce Wayne currently? If he’s roughly 30 or older, it’s unlikely he would have had access to treatment with someone who specialized in effective treatment of PTSD in kids. And if he’s younger? What do you think the odds are that a dude two generations older would shatter the stigma norms and take a kid to therapy?
As my elderly father would say: slim to none.
Plus, Bruce was originated in 1915. Talk therapy wasn’t even a thing in the US then. Although there’s evidence that Rhazes, a Persian physician, used a form of psychotherapy based on theory, it wasn’t a thing in the modern ‘west’ until Sigmund Freud in the late 1800’s. And he brought it to the US in 1909, but it wasn’t really popular until the ‘30s/‘40s. And psychoanalysis is not really a peer-reviewed, empirically-supported treatment for PTSD. Even though that standard is not without critique, it’s the one most treatment in the US is currently based on.
And Prolonged Exposure, an empirically supported treatment (that doesn’t mean that it works for everyone, just that it’s better than supportive therapy for the majority of participants in a randomized controlled trial) is based on reversing avoidance. Avoidance is like the lighter fluid of the fire that is PTSD symptoms—while it may help escape pain in the short term, it doesn’t resolve symptoms in the long term.
Being able to revisit traumatic events in a space *where there is objective safety* can help a person reprocess those events in an effective way that wasn’t available to them at the time of the event, when survival was the primary goal. And it’s not the only treatment out there; a person can recover without it (though some studies show that, when added to other emotion regulation skills, it leads to longer-lasting recovery from PTSD than those skills alone).
Anywho. I got started and couldn’t stop talking about two of my favorite things: human psychology and the history of psychotherapy.
the batkids morality codes:
dick: Everybody deserves kindness
jason: everybody deserves a second chance
Damain: there is a better way
Cass: I can be better
tim: i don't want to be evil gun batman
dick: so you think joker will be invited to harley and ivy's wedding?
bruce: he'll be there. in spirit if nothing else.
harley 24 hrs ago: so we're gonna have a clown pinata, one for the adults an' one for the kiddies, so EVERYONE gets a chance ta beat the shit outta a clown
bruce sipping a margarita while he flicks through a bridal magazine: nice
Do they invite Batman or just Bruce?
they very publicly invite both just to see how bruce pulls it off
He hires two impersonators and shows up as Matches Malone
dc comics heritage post
One day, Clark is bored at work so he messages Bruce saying as much, hoping they could talk for a bit to help pass the time.
What he did not expect was for Bruce to tweet 'ostriches arn't real'.
The office becomes alive with activity. Perry marches over and tells Clark to write an article about how one of the richest men in the world does not believe a bird exists.
The interview?
Clark Kent: "Would you care to elaborate on what you meant about not believing ostriches exist?"
Bruce Wayne: "No."
Others then ask Bruce what his thoughts on other birds are. Penguins? Real. Flamingos? Not real. Pigeons? Some are, some arn't. It depends.
On the upside Clark's afternoon became a whole lot less boring. On the downside there is now a Twitter account called 'BirdsBruceWThinksArntReal'.
“robins?” clark asks as the last question. “robins aren’t birds.”
"Jason Todd was a menace of a Robin"
WRONG Jason Todd was a sweet lil lad who liked to read fucking Shakespear
DICK GRAYSON WAS 11 YEARS OLD AND LOOKING FOR HIS PARENTS KILLER TO MURDER
He also beat Joker to death after Jason died, Dick is probably the most angry Robin to ever traffic light his way through Gotham.
not exactly an unpopular opinion, but a not very commonly talked about one.
Jason should have been fucking pissed about Steph. Her time as Robin, her death, the way Bruce treated her, everything. His thinking of Robins as child soldiers applies almost exclusively to Steph. Bruce used her. Used her to make someone else feel bad. He didn't care for her. He wanted a Robin, not a kid. And she died because of it.
battinson after catching jason stealing the tires off the batmobile: why did you go back for the fourth tire
jason, autistic: because i’m not having three, an odd number. what kind of stupid question is that. arent you supposed to be a detective
battinson, also autistic:…………..
*later*
alfred: you cannot adopt a child based on their rigid opinions on even numbers
battinson, ignoring alfred: *writing in his weird little post-patrol diary i understand him like the shadows understand me. he is my son now*
Jason: eating food directly from the fridge without a plate “because it’s faster”
Bruce: “he’s so smart”
Jason wearing one hoodie and going feral if anyone including Alfred tries to replace it. He will watch the entire wash and dry cycle while his hoodie is in there. Sits on the floor and STARES.
Bruce: this is a very reasonable response to a favorite item. He likes it because it’s already broken in. “My boy 🥹”
Bruce spending the whole time Jason is dead blaming himself for not getting there in time to save him, and then Jason returning to Gotham only to tell Bruce he doesn’t blame him for not saving him, but that he has 10 other huge gripes about Bruce…it’s simultaneously devastating and hilarious. Seriously it comes off like this:
Good news: your fear that your son would blame you for not saving him turns out to be untrue, he doesn’t blame you for that!
Bad news: he has committed many murders to explain everything else you did wrong.
Thinking about this panel
in relation to this one
@disniq
Mmmm yesssss *rolls around in these tags*.
Jason Todd, everyone! Mr. “not everyone wants to be alive”!
Desperately searching for a reason to justify his continued existence!
Too sad to live, too angry to die!
TOO SAD TO LIVE TOO ANGRY TO DIE!! Jason Thesis right there!
I forgot about this one! (Rhato Rebirth #3)
There's also rhato rebirth #9
And i'mma go ahead and add these two from TFZ
Tim, [pointing his staff at the human traffickers]: YOU ARE OUTGUNNED
Jason, [hyping him up]: WHAT?
Tim: OUTMANNED!
Jason: WHAT?!
Tim: OUTNUMBERED OUTPLANNED
Jason: PAY YOUR FUCKING TAXES!
Tim: PUT YOUR GUNS DOWN ON MY COMMAND
Jason: HAND EM OVER!!
Tim: THIS IS HAMILTON MY RIGHT HAND MAN!
Jason, [getting his guns out]: PWO PWO PWO PWO PWO-
Goons: *shaking* what the FUCK are Batman feeding his partners--
Goons: I'm not going the fuck out there tonight! Didn't you see the set list?! Today they're doing "Ten Duel Commandements"! I'm not sucidal, boss.
Riddler: ?????
Ra's Al Ghul: Talia. Why is your charity case running around stabbing people and causing me a migraine?
Talia: I may have told him that coming out of the Lazarus Pit can induce a rage fever.
Ra's: That wears off after four hours. It's been three months since you dunked him.
Talia: It's therapeutic, father. He's able to express his rage without feeling guilt over it. Let him have this.
Ra's: He ruined my favorite garden!
Talia: For as much as I put into keeping this League running, he gets to ruin as much as he wants.
Okay that would be hilarious.
Jason: *goes absolutely feral*
Talia, sipping tea: You’re doing great, sweetie.
Ra’s: It’s been six months. He’s taken down nine drug rings and three corrupt governments. Will you please tell him now.
Talia: Just let him have this.
Jason trying to explain poly to Bruce
Jason, at a whiteboard: you see, you and Selina are these two dots, and you are dating *draws a line from one dot to the other*
Bruce: Why are we dots?
Jason: uh, it's just really zoomed out, okay back to this- Roy, Kori, and I are these three dots, and see, there is a line from Kori to me cause we're dating, there is a line from Roy to me cause we're dating, and there is a line between them cause they are dating. We are all dating one another but even then, it is separate relationships coming together to make something else- in this case, a triangle-
Tim, in the background eating popcorn: illuminati confirmed
Jason: Anyway, so even though we all are dating each other separately, just like how you and Selina are dating, our relationships with one another come together to form something new, called a poly relationship-
Dick, still bitter his friend, ex girlfriend, and brother are all dating: no it's called I introduce you all and then you cut me out of the mix to have your own exclusive relationships going on
Bruce: wait, I'm confused, so you are a triangle?
Jason, slapping his forehead: no, the triangle is a metaphor for my poly relationship with Kori and Roy to help you understand what a polyamorous relationship is
Bruce: Jason, I know what a polyamorous relationship is. My parents were in one with Alfred when I was growing up. I just don't understand what that has to do with geometry
all batchildren present take a small amount of psychic damage
"Alfred was what?"
Dexter Soy woke up and chose violence
That was uncalled for Dexter
I haven’t even had my coffee yet
Jason: How come Timber's sugar baby is running around with a diamond studded leather jacket, when you wouldn't loan me money to take my girls out for dinner
Bruce: Because 'your girls' refers to every working girl between Park Row and The Narrows and I don't actually carry that much cash on me. Also Tim's not using my money
Jason: You wanna elaborate on that.
Bruce: Tim is independently wealthy, remember? He's emptied out one of his trusts and has invested it in various stocks. I might be the richest man on the continent-
Jason: Braggart
Bruce: Stating a fact. If Tim's projections are correct, then he'll be the second richest by this time next year. He did all that so that, and I quote, "Kon can have the best of anything he wants with no need for your input"
Tim from the other room: IT'S WHAT HE DESERVES BRUCE
Bruce 300% done: DO I DESERVE TO HAVE LUTHOR FOR AN IN-LAW
I FINISHED IT!!!! WOOOO!!
I’m crying!!!!! Crying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!