Andi,She/Her, Lesbian Asexual, 20+, Writer. Currently working on the Legends Of Panthera: The Champions' Chronicles. Archives of our own: https://archiveofourown.org/users/PantheraQueen/pseuds/PantheraQueen.
RIP Marjane Satrapi, author of the amazing graphic novels Persepolis about living during the fundamentalist revolution in Iran in the 70’s and 80’s. She also created the animated movie based on the graphic novels, which is where these gifs come from.
hi, I hope you don't mind me coming to kind of vent in your inbox (please toss this out if you do) but I was reading your post on the contrasting way Viktor and Jayce view their first meeting and it got me thinking about how some people just sorta brush aside Jayce's suicide attempt here as being somehow pathetic or an overreaction to what they consider a slap on the wrist and I kinda get really mad about that perspective because I don't think people really follow through on what the trial actually meant for Jayce and what the consequences reasonably could have been. people seem to think he was just embarrassed by the trial without understanding that that kind of reputational hit can be, and clearly was, ruinous.
setting aside entirely the emotional/psychological repercussions of having the thing he'd dedicated roughly 2/3's of his life to taken away, his very public trial ended with his own mother making an insanity plea on his behalf and his extremely wealthy and influential sponsor dropping him like he was radioactive and the actual ruling body of the city declaring him dangerously incompetent. do any of those people who deride him for the suicide attempt actually take the time to think about what that outcome means for him in a social and professional context? he jokes to Caitlyn about working in his family factory but honestly, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that the fallout of the trial has made him a social and professional pariah and his reputation is in such dire straits that he may be entirely unemployable within Piltover, perhaps even to the point of being toxic to his own family business if they take the reputation hit by association with him.
it's not actually hyperbole or an overreaction for him to stand in the wreckage of his life and think his life is over, to be at a complete loss as to how to move forward or come to the belief that moving forward is impossible and despair, especially if he doesn't have a support network which he pretty clearly doesn't. his only connections appear to be his mother and Caitlyn and, for obvious reasons, they're not viable at this time.
he was drowning and Viktor threw him a lifeline and he spends the literal rest of the story trying to return the favor.
Sorry for the delay in responding, there's a lot here I want to address.
First of all, I absolutely agree. I think people underestimate just how much that trial left his life in wreckage. That said, there's a few points I'd like to add some nuance to from my perspective, along the lines of YEAH THIS WAS REALLY BAD and people underestimate how much Viktor did for Jayce with his vote of confidence.
(This is gonna be a long post y'all but I have a LOT of thoughts and feelings about Jayce here so buckle up if you do proceed.)
1 ) The Kirammans dropping him as his patrons is absolutely devastating. It's actually the moment I think I hated Cassandra Kiramman for the most, which was turning Jayce away from her door at his lowest point, and cutting him off from Caitlyn, who seems to be his only friend before Viktor. I think it also demonstrates just how severe the crime was that she did so, by the way, I don't think she was just being cruel for the sake of it. But the fact that in 1.04 she's then showing off Jayce as an accomplishment of her house is particularly infuriating as a result. It's also no exaggeration to say that the Kiramman rejection was the final straw for him. After that, he decided to take his own life, so Cassandra would have been, in my opinion, directly responsible for his death (ironically saving her own life down the line, but then Arcane S1 is a series of hinging butterfly effect moments) if not for Viktor.
2 ) One layer of nuance I wanted to add to the Kiramman rejection in particular that you mentioned is the idea of him working at the Talis hammer factory because I think about this a LOT.
I do want to push back a little on the idea that he wouldn't be able to make a living for himself at the Talis hammer factory. To me (as someone whose family has a family business, though I don't work for it), it was never in doubt Jayce would have been able to work there the rest of his life. It might have been the only place he could get a job in Piltover, in fact, at least one with any sort of prestige or intellectual pursuit attached (basically, with anyone attached or graduated from the Academy).
However, I think Jayce would have had to work in a non-scientific part of the factory, either out on the floor or in the back office. And this is what I've been wanting to address in meta for a while now.
Caitlyn asks him what he's going to do next and Jayce says, "Work for the Talis hammer factory, I guess?" and she exclaims, "You can't do that!"
I think the nuance missing from your point that I'd like to add my view of that scene to is that Caitlyn is essentially saying, "That would kill you."
I get the very strong impression that Caitlyn and Jayce bonded over being members of their family who wanted bigger things than what their parents wanted for them. It's basically there on the page in this exchange.
We explore directly that Caitlyn wants to be a detective instead of working in politics like her mother, and pursues her dream despite adversity and her mother's disapproval.
But I think from this exchange and the one Jayce also has with his mother Ximena, we can glean that the Talis's also wanted Jayce to work for the factory, the family business, instead of going to the Academy to pursue his dream of magic.
(Also as a person whose family has a family business, that I don't work for, that has their own career and faced a lot of consternation from my family in my desire to be a writer, I feel this one very keenly.)
Jayce to me reads as someone who had to fight his family all his life to avoid going into the family business, in his pursuit of something greater.
With the Hextech dream taken away, all that's left to him is his family business, the thing I'd argue we have evidence that he's been fighting to avoid his whole life. It doesn't inspire him. It's not what he wants.
Joining the Talis factory would kill him. And that's what Caitlyn points out, and that's when he realizes she's right and goes to finish the job by his own hand instead. Further evidence I would say that working for his family business would represent a death of the soul to him, such that a physical death is preferable. But since his family built the business, and his mother clearly has reservations about his pursuit of magic, I think we can safely say he's been feeling similar pressures to Caitlyn to conform and join the business instead.
3 ) Now to go back to Viktor, I think this is another reason that Viktor literally and spiritually saved Jayce's life. Jayce outright says to his mother that if his own family won't believe in him, he'll find someone who will. Whether you read Viktor/Jayce as platonic or romantic (spouses are family, after all, which is how I read it), Viktor is Jayce's family from that point forward.
But Viktor doesn't bring Jayce back from the brink just by believing in him at his lowest moment (which is so powerful it can't be underestimated, btw) he also gives Jayce a bit of tough love too just when Jayce needs it.
Like many children of privilege (I'd firmly put Mel in this category, since she too is "trapped in the family business" I'd argue), Jayce saw himself at rock bottom after he lost his patron, the benefits of his House name, his family's support, his research, his equipment, access to his one friend, his access to the Academy, and his reputation.
Viktor points out that he never had any of those things growing up.
I think this is a welcome slap in the face for Jayce. Viktor rose to be the Dean's assistant on ability alone, without any of the scaffolding of privilege, and it humbles Jayce just when he needs it. Viktor is telling him that Jayce already has everything he needs to succeed and that others like Viktor have gotten further with less.
So not only does Viktor give his vote of confidence, he materially shows Jayce there is a way to achieving his dreams without all of the things he just lost.
Not only that, he's won the respect and assistance of someone who has done it before, someone who admires him for what he's done, someone who will help him make this dream a reality when no one else would.
Of course Jayce dedicated his life to Viktor after that. Of course he saw Hextech as their shared dream after that. I'd argue that of course he saw his life as belonging to Viktor after that point, because Viktor saved it.
(Meta) The Tragedy of Working for "The Family Business" in Arcane
I recently wrote some meta about how one contributor to Jayce's suicide attempt in Arcane 1.02 was the realization that his only obvious path forward in life after his humiliating trial and expulsion from the Academy was to go into the family business of the Talis hammer factory, and how he chose death over that because such a life would represent a spiritual death of the soul for him, a fate literally worse than death.
That got me thinking about how we have several characters in Arcane who are fighting against working for "the family business" that is, living up to the expectations and desires of their parents. My immediate temptation is to say that Arcane takes the pretty firm stance that it's better to pursue your own dreams but then I stopped myself because no, it's much more nuanced than that.
I'm exploring this as someone whose family also has a family business that I didn't join, who had dreams of artistic pursuits that my family actively discouraged, so this is a very personal topic for me that I feel I can lend some insight to.
Whether or not it's the right thing to "join the family business" and live up to the expectations of the older generation is an active and complex dialogue that goes on within Arcane.
So let's go through the characters and how they reflect on this theme:
Jayce Talis: Just because he's top of mind for me. I believe it's heavily implied that Jayce's dream was to pursue magic and Hextech. Losing access to Hextech and having no choice but to join the family business was a fate worse than death for him, he actively chose suicide instead. And I believe we have hints that Ximena and his late father wanted that for him (see the childhood picture of Jayce and his father, with Jayce proudly holding up the hammer is father almost certainly helped him forge).
But we have some nuance to the discussion of "Was it the right thing?" for him to go into Hextech instead, since it's basically a curse that brought ruin and near-destruction to the world. That said, when Hextech succeeded, all the voices that wanted Jayce to join the family business were silenced and all supported Hextech enthusiastically, including his mother. So while their encouragement of him joining the family business instead of working on his dream might have averted many tragedies, it's not why anyone except Heimerdinger wanted him to do it.
Caitlyn Kiramman: This isn't subtext, this is text. Caitlyn wanted to be a detective, her mother wanted her to be a politician and is clearly uncomfortable even as far back as the shooting competition that Caitlyn wins that her daughter is so adept at shooting instead of diplomacy.
Caitlyn's dictator arc is even directly tied to the creators as a phase of her trying to live up to what her mother would have wanted (including dating nice "girl next door" Maddie instead of undercity dweller and ex-con Vi that both her parents seemed to actively dislike). Caitlyn while mourning her mother keenly feels all the disagreements they once had over her choices in life, and falls to her lowest point spiritually, morally, emotionally, etc. when trying to live up to her image of what her mother wanted for her.
Vi coming back into her life literally gives her the courage to break away from this horrible place where she's found herself, becoming this person she doesn't want to be. Because it's all well and good to say everyone should forge their own path, but it's almost impossible to do without someone who also believes in you and the version of you that you want to be.
Mel Medarda: Insofar as Mel is a tragic tale, which I believe she is, her tragedy is as a child of privilege who never breaks away to pursue her own dreams. I think the tragedies of privilege often, understandably, get overlooked in discussions of fiction but Mel plays out that tragedy writ large. And I don't just mean this from the perspective of the "poor little rich girl" I mean being from privilege can become its own cage. It can dampen ambition, lock one into self-doubt that you can make it on your own without the benefits that privilege gave, it can lead to incredible self-doubt and constant self-measuring against the previous generation because of what they left for you to inherit and to live up to.
Mel is not happy when she returns to Noxus as the new Head of House Medarda. She got everything she wanted in S1, to be recognized by her family and to ascend as a Medarda after her banishment, and nothing she needed. What could Mel have accomplished if she wasn't trying to be a Medarda, or now with or without the magic her mother literally instilled in her veins as a birthright? She may never know. Mel could have been an artist, a spy, an inventor, a diplomat, she showed incredibly aptitude at all these skills but in the end, she just works for the family business.
But Mel doesn't have anyone, not Jayce, not Elora, not her family, to believe in her vision for herself at the end. Instead, she has become the family business.
Jinx: Jinx in S1 is constantly hemmed in and restricted by Silco's desire for her to take over the family business, to help build his weapons, to help him create Zaun. Stupid joke that it is, Sevika confronts her with the fact that she could assume the family business of raising Zaun from the ashes in S2, exactly as Silco wanted. It's one of the more complex instances of "Would it be better if she did, or if she didn't?"
I think the show comes down on, no, it's better for Jinx to go off an live her own life. Sevika, for whom this isn't the family business, is the better steward of Zaun's future going forward. She did the work. She's done the thinking. She's stood by the cause through thick and thin. She believes in it. It's Sevika who should be on the Council.
It's also interesting to contrast Jinx with alternate universe Powder, who also feels trapped by family expectations. Who is constantly reminded she could be doing more. Ironically, that Powder seems to want to join the family business and live behind the bar, but it is clear that it's stifling her true potential, and her loving fathers Vander and Silco in a happier world try to point that out to her.
But it takes Ekko from the main universe believing in her for her to begin to forge her own path.
Viktor: Viktor has no family business to live up to. At most, we have a bit of word of god meta that his parents helped smuggle him into the Academy when they recognize his potential. We have a little bit of Singed/Dr. Revek as a father figure which could represent a family business and if so, it's a tragedy for Viktor when he gives in and decides to "join the family business" and go along with Singed's view of the world.
That said, Viktor's lack of connections, patronage, or family is what helps him inspire Jayce and save his life. Viktor's lack of family business to join is why he had to forge his own path. He points this out to Jayce, who is clearly inspired while at his lowest point. Jayce realizes as a result of this conversation that others have done more than him with less, that his life isn't over because he lost his privileges. That all he really needs is himself or, rather, himself and just one person who believes in him. It's no understatement to say that from that point on, Jayce has given this new life, this like Viktor gave back to him, to Viktor and their shared dream. Viktor is all the family he needs now.
And, likewise, Jayce is the vote of confidence that Viktor needs to break free of his own tragic spiral, one encouraged and egged on by Singed and his expectations. It takes Jayce believing in the better version of Viktor to pull him back to become the person he wanted to be again, in a time paradox loop that is still making me insane.
TL;DR So really, if I must say that Arcane has a thesis, it's that you're better of pursuing your own path but it's difficult, nearly impossible to do, without at least one other person who believes in you.
One of your posts mentioned something about viktor not truly acknowledging Jayce's workload when it came to him being a Councillor. Could you please elaborate on that?
Sure. I mean, maybe if I went back through and did an exhaustive rewatch, I'd find something to contradict the point, but as far as I can recall, the closest Viktor ever comes to saying that Jayce might be overworked is when he calls his time going over the shipping manifests for the Hexgates a waste of time because they should be working on innovations to help people in need (ie, Viktor obfuscating once again that he is dying and wants Jayce's urgent help but framing it in such a way that it sounds like a long-term societal problem instead of a short term personal one, so it goes right over Jayce's head).
And look, let me preface this by saying Viktor is actively dying at this point. He's sick, and in pain, and terrified, and he feels abandoned by the most important person in his life. I'm not saying it was wrong of him to not acknowledge Jayce's workload, or bad, or in any way not understandable. Jayce is an adult too and Viktor was definitely suffering more at that point than him.
But on one of many rewatches, I did note that when Jayce says, "Sorry, I have a lot on my plate lately." it is objectively true. And Viktor doesn't even acknowledge it. Being a full time councilor and promoting Hextech and working in the lab and trying to help Viktor and dealing with a civic crisis that could lead to outright civil war, etc etc everything else happening in S1, it's no wonder Jayce is snippy and on edge at the bridge, the guy should be on the edge of collapse quite frankly.
And Viktor doesn't care. He thinks Jayce's time on the Council is a waste of time, so he doesn't acknowledge the burden of it. That includes not acknowledging the fact that the Hexcore would have been destroyed and Viktor's one hope for a cure gone with it if not for Jayce's power and influence now. Jayce only became a Councilor to advance their research and help Viktor, but Viktor doesn't once acknowledge this and seems actively angry and jealous about it.
By the way, this isn't a case of one of them is right and the other is wrong, it's just a case of two very human people being human. It's very well written. But Viktor's lack of empathy for the challenges Jayce is facing means he's also not seeing how much of what Jayce is doing is for his benefit, how many burdens Jayce is taking on for Viktor's sake.
Viktor's emotional arc at the end of S1 includes a lot of feelings of abandonment by Jayce which are objectively not true. If he acknowledged Jayce's workload, he might also come to the realization that he's not abandoned, that Jayce is entirely focused on him just in different arenas. Maybe it would give Viktor the impetus to say "Hey, I don't want your help as a Councilor, I want your help in the lab because I'm scared and alone and dying and I'm about to make some very rash decisions because of all those feelings." Instead of just sucking it up and going it alone, which eventually leads to Sky's death and Viktor's collapse into utter hopelessness and resignation towards his own death.
And by the way, this isn't conjecture that Viktor is bad at seeing how much people around him care for him. Sky is another example of this. Viktor is so focused on extending his own life that, to paraphrase Heimerdinger in 2.07, he's not using the time he has to be with the ones he loves.
Later he will weep and rage at how he completely missed out on knowing Sky as a person, he completely missed out on knowing she cares for him. He'll craft an entire specter of her to keep him company as a result of this guilt in S2, because he can't live with the guilt of the fact he objectively missed out on spending time with the real woman when she was alive. And that is another version of what he's doing to Jayce in S1, by not seeing that Jayce isn't ignoring him, he's desperately trying to help in every way he can and the workload is burying him.
wife and i were talking about this yesterday, actually!!! bc we re-watched the bridge scene and i sarcastically repeated "I've got a lot on my plate right now" to which my wife responded like actually he does!! and we went thru a whole list of what's going on with Jayce
he's been more or less shoe-horned into being a councillor, which is not his favourite thing
there's a corruption !! going on in this area he's been given jurisdiction over!
his best friend has been given a terminal diagnosis (which, ofc, is more stressful for said best friend)
he ordered a blockade that turned out to be a shitshow
he is in a new relationship
that new relationship happens to be with a fellow councillor, which is its own bucket of trouble
also, we are definitely team Mel Swiped Jayce's V-Card
his long-time mentor has told him that the object of his life-long research and the thing that could possibly save aforementioned beset friend must be destroyed
oh and don't forget, he just ousted that long-time mentor from his seat on the council
The possibility that Jayce is also dealing with having just lost his virginity (in his THIRTIES) as one more damn thing he's dealing with right now sent me into the STRATOSPHERE
I don't think Jayce was ever the one who was against Hextech weapons. I think that was always Viktor's side of the partnership, and I think this for a few reasons:
1 ) Jayce comes from a family of tool makers. Weapons are tools. Jayce's earliest drawings of himself as a mage is him holding a magical hammer. I don't think Jayce set out to make magical weapons but I think he was always open to the idea as that drawing shows us.
2 ) Viktor comes from the undercity, which no matter how you look at when he would have left it for Piltover, was often damaged and harassed by armed Enforcers. Just based on his upbringing, Viktor would be very aware of the fact that any weapons made for Piltover will almost certainly be put in the hands of Enforcers and those will be used against people in the undercity. Jayce does not have this social awareness. I don't think Jayce was at all malicious, just naive,. According to Caitlyn, he had zero political interest before becoming a Councilor and really everything he knew or thought about the undercity came from his partnership and love for Viktor.
3 ) Jayce is genuinely torn on the need for Hextech weapons because again, this isn't a deeply held belief for him in S1, this is him being supportive of Viktor's vision for their shared dream.
Jayce let Viktor be the moral guide for something he didn't really have a strong feeling about one way or the other. This is why he's so torn in S1 when it seems like they might actually need Hextech weapons in Piltover to survive against a Shimmer-armed undercity (in a classic theme of arms race escalation and all it entails that permeates the show). The narrative demonstrates though that this is Jayce's naiveté at play to think the weapons could be used only against their intended targets. Weapons once made will always be used, including against children. Viktor already has this awareness that weapons will be used against the undercity, Jayce gains it through the attack on the Shimmer factory and the death of a child bystander who looks like Viktor. To Mel's credit, she also urges caution and backpedals on her own desire for Hextech weapons in a bid to deescalate the conflict.
4 ) In S2 Act 1, Jayce is all-in on Viktor's vision for Hextech, because he's mourning Viktor who is non-responsive in the Hex cocoon and close to death. Mel, who in 1.09 realized that Jayce and Piltover matter more to her than her mother's approval, also stands up against Hextech weapons.
5 ) But, and this is critical, Jayce has always fundamentally seen Hextech as a tool that can be used for many purposes. That's why when the situation escalates, he pushes back on Hextech weapons on a broader scale, but he is willing to bend enough to make weapons for Caitlyn and her strike team, because he loves Caitlyn and he sees this as a defensive tool to keep her safe, in my opinion, and as an alternative to a war that would be worse.
This is critical to note because Jayce doesn't have an iron spine when it comes to resisting Hextech weapons because it's not his deeply held philosophical belief the way it is for Viktor. It is a received belief that he holds to honor Viktor, out of love for him, and that can be swayed if the specter of protecting another loved one arises. Jayce is wildly conflicted about this, I believe, based on his expression in the forge after he makes Caitlyn's gun, but this is a man who cannot bear the thought of losing another loved one after everything he has gone through.
Hextech was always about love for Jayce, not philosophy, because he is not ideologically driven and never has been, it was always Viktor's ideals he was supporting and he would never fight as hard on that point as Viktor would as a result.
#Hey. everybody moved on but i’m still at the ‘the child jayce killed looked like viktor’. what. What.#OP ??????? What . WHAT.#LIKE WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID @pandebunuelo
It's not one to one exactly, but it is a close enough resemblance that I've always believed part of Jayce's traumatized reaction to killing Renni's son was in part due to his resemblance to Viktor.
Keep in mind 1) Jayce has never seen Viktor as a child so he can only approximate and 2) Jayce's only connection with or real interest in the undercity before that day was through Viktor's dream to help the undercity.
Not only is that moment a gutpunch for Jayce in realizing that Viktor was right about the ultimate results of creating Hextech weapons, the person who suffered was someone who resembles Viktor, which I think drives home for Jayce that an invasion of the undercity would mean the death of children who could one day grow up to be like Viktor.
And just to add one more potentially very personal blow from the death of Renni's son: Jayce might not know this kid was the son of the owner of the factory, but it's worth noting that Jayce is also the son of the owner of a (hammer) factory. Renni's son was almost certainly working there as part of the family business, which is why someone so young was in a position to be wandering the floor at will and had such a personal interest in running to the alarm button, and knew where it was.
In another world, Renni's son and Jayce are from the same class as children of factory owners who are working there while young in the expectation of one day being the owners of that factory themselves.
Y’know, I’m actually warming to the idea that Viktor (Arcane) could canonically be a trans man. I mean, I’m always in favor in fic, don’t get me wrong, but there’s a difference between canon and popular fanon and while I understood and supported the idea as fanon, I didn’t necessarily think that’s what the show intended.
But now we’ve got Lest as a canonical trans woman character in Arcane S2 and I’ve been going back and doing a full rewatch of the show in anticipation of Act 3 dropping, and I was just noting how a few things:
1) His back brace is exactly in the right place to both suggest and obscure top surgery scars (as if the Undercity wouldn’t have a surgeon who could do it mean honestly, they’ve clearly got very advanced body mods down there, this would be tame by comparison). Now in S2 his body has been completely remade so any old scars are totally gone and the back brace has become a part of him, but he’s also literally been transformed. Like if anything, it makes it a continuation of his story.
2) His build and lack of any stubble somewhat lend to the possibility. It’s more noticeable because Jayce always has a trace of stubble visible so there’s a distinct contrast there. (Not that other male characters all have stubble, a lot of them don’t, but it is noteworthy when we see Viktor and Jayce contrasted so often in the same frame). And while they haven’t gone full frontal really on anyone in the show, we did see Viktor mostly naked and there was nothing to contradict the theory in what we saw.
3) I mean, the Machine Herald’s whole schtick is around transcending humanity, transcending evolution, not just going along with what nature gave you. That feels… very conducive to a trans man read of Viktor that such a background would further lend to his rejection of the notion that our biology is our destiny, in addition to his illness and disability.
Anyway, I don’t mean to offend anyone, I just found it interesting that this fanon at least for me went from “Huh, plausible but probably not intended,” to “Oh hey, it’s plausible and could very well BE intended and actually it aligns with things the character says on screen now!” as of S2.
Revisiting this because I’m working on another Jayvik missing scene/smut fic where I actually DO need to make a decision on if he’s cis or trans and I’m so so torn guys, because both flavors have beautiful thematic resonance to them.
I keep thinking of doing a poll to ask which I should do but that seems unnecessarily divisive and could be taken the wrong way so… thoughts?
I see a lot of posts and fanworks centered on Jayce's affection/pining for Vik, but not so much of the other way around! Jayce is very physically touchy and expresses outright, often, what people mean to him.
What I've picked up is that Viktor touches *objects* with tenderness, potentially especially when thinking of other people. The gear, the hexgate, the exchange of the runestone, wearing that gaht dahm blanket the whole season... But nevertheless he's still much more reserved. It's easy to conclude that the feelings weren't mutual, or not to the same extent (maybe canonically they aren't, but... :') we can [hextech] dream) - but what if they're just much more subtle on Viktor's part?
Thoughts on this?
I think it's very clear that Viktor loves Jayce just as much as Jayce loves Viktor. We have a lot of instances of proof for that.
1 ) The biggest, most dramatic has got to be the implications of Wizard Viktor resetting the timelines who knows how many times to ensure that he and Jayce meet. There could be an element of selfishness to that, in theory, because he needs Jayce to show him, "There's no prize to perfection, only an end to pursuit," and save him from a fate literally worse than death. But I think given Wizard Viktor's tone and delivery there's a lot of implication buried in there that without Jayce in his life, Viktor just doesn't see it as worth living. Considering that Jayce appearing is also what paused Viktor's suicide attempt in S1, I think we've got multiple scenes to support that Jayce gives Viktor a reason to live.
2 ) I've been meaning to talk for awhile about how we can use the (actually bogus for real people) "Love Languages" idea as a framework for understanding how Jayce and Viktor love each other and I think it's a useful way to answer your question now.
Quick version:
Jayce's love language is (obviously) Physical Touch.
Viktor's love language is (more subtly) Quality Time.
Let's dive into this and what that means for how Viktor shows love to Jayce in more subtle but just as meaningful ways throughout the show.
To start at the beginning of the relationship, Viktor's love langue being Quality Time why he's so touched that Jayce immediately folds him in as a partner in Hextech and clearly begins to feel affection at the very least right away for Jayce based on their working together on Hextech.
But I think there's a more tragic flip side to Quality Time as a way of Viktor showing love, because he also uses that language to hide his love when he thinks it would hurt Jayce. As his illness progresses and his body fails, he withdraws more and more, I believe to spare Jayce the pain Viktor is going through. Jayce notes that Viktor often disappears for long stretches of time without explanation, which I think further hints that Viktor is hiding his declining health from him.
Viktor also withholds knowledge from Jayce of the experiments he's doing in a way that I think is meant to shield himself from Jayce's possible intervention, sure, but which I also think is to shield Jayce from possible prosecution if for example Viktor was found with Shimmer on him and that he's doing illegal experiments. I personally believe that Viktor puts himself through a lot of pain in S1 in small part because he's worried about Jayce's potentially negative reaction (which indicates love and fear of losing Jayce's love) but in much larger part because he wants to shield Jayce from the fallout of his admittedly reckless actions (which indicates love as well).
As Singed says, Viktor's actions might lead to him losing out on love and legacy. Viktor's immediate thought is that this can only mean Jayce, but he trusts Jayce to understand. I do believe Viktor's certainty wavers based on the encounter on the bridge, and he wants to live more than he wants to risk Jayce shutting him down, but as we learn in their final scene, he needn't have worried. Jayce did understand. Viktor's first instincts about Jayce were 100% right.
But as for more ways Viktor shows love I'd point to a few:
He's always in the lab, which is their shared space. If we take Quality Time as his love language, that in part is him always making himself available to Jayce. It's one reason why I think he gets increasingly hurt in S1 when Jayce spends less time there, it makes Viktor feel neglected when he's offering himself in his own language. Jayce saying he'll return to the lab in S2 shows at least some understanding of this and that he messed up and wants to fix it. Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons some of which might be beyond Viktor's control like the Hexcore controlling him to some extant (we'll never really know), it's too late by that point, and Viktor withdraws (the outward sign of) his love by leaving.
We can see Quality Time being a way Viktor shows love too in the way he smacks Jayce's hand away on the bridge (without having to look, btw, he just knew where it would be which is nuts) and then, as soon as Jayce apologizes, allowing the touch once more. He knows Jayce's love language is Physical Touch and he accepts Jayce back in to his Quality Time very quickly once he gets that (admittedly very needed) apology.
I'd argue one reason Viktor doesn't show as much verbal care for Jayce in S1, like asking how he's doing or showing more understanding for the fact he's overworked as a Councilor, is because Jayce's overwork is a symptom of him denying Viktor his Quality Time as a love language. Viktor is only human. It's hard for him to be understanding and sympathetic to the fact that Jayce is overworked when that overwork is the reason Viktor feels neglected right now. Like many people, he would rather show his disapproval and hope that expedites Jayce coming to the realization that he should stop overworking and come back to the lab and Viktor, rather than offering comfort Jayce might need if it theoretically prolongs Jayce's absence or gives the impression that Viktor in any way approves of his time away from the lab.
To jump forward to their final scene in S2, I think we can also use Viktor pushing Jayce away and telling Jayce to go as showing Quality Time as a love language. Namely, that Viktor is willing to deny himself love and happiness to keep Jayce safe, in a selfless demonstration of love in Viktor's love language.
And finally, Jayce fully understands the Quality Time love language because he replies with the fact he's not going to leave, that they will spend what could be these final moments together. And we get Viktor fully parsing that Jayce's love language is physical touch because he accepts and reaches back for Jayce's touch in those (potentially) final moments.
Oh and as a final note, I do love your point about how Viktor caresses objects that remind him of Jayce, and I think that is still Quality Time. The blanket represents the embrace they shared before they parted and Jayce's love for him, which Viktor holds close and wraps around him even as he descends into being more and more inhuman. It is the mark of his humanity and the symbol of his enduring love for Jayce that he won't let it go. In a real way, he's spending "Quality Time" with Jayce's love by keeping it constantly wrapped around him. Similarly, the cog shows he is thinking about Jayce and missing him too, holding that memory close.
Even as the Cult Leader and post "Evolution", Viktor shows that he wants to spend time with Jayce again and he's baffled when Jayce point blank refuses him, not connecting until the final scene that the pursuit of "perfection" was what was keeping Jayce from his side when Jayce really did want to be there, which was particularly baffling for Viktor because he thought the pursuit of perfection was what he needed to win Jayce back. Once he set it aside, Jayce was literally waiting there with open arms to take him back.
Thank you for talking about how Viktor wouldn't be mean to Jayce! I do really agree that fandom really tries to boil them down to their basics or preexisting tropes and it really sucks to see people think he'd really insult Jayce or hit him with his cane. Something I started thinking about after I read that post is that so much of the cast are Zaunite and nearly every one of them are sharp-tongued, and so maybe that's why people think Viktor would be mean? But that doesn't really take into account his personality or how he might feel he has to present himself as someone from Zaun living in Piltover.
Yeah the "hitting with the cane" trope definitely feels OOC for him to me. I could maybe see him tapping or hooking Jayce to get his attention but... even then. We rarely see Viktor use his cane or crutch for anything but their intended purpose.
If I may extrapolate out, I find it notable that when he has the cane pre-time skip he leaves it aside when possible, like when standing at the blackboard, and tries to mask his disability. I know for many people with disabilities, they love their aids, and the aids given them freedom of movement and from pain, but I would venture to say that Viktor does not see his crutch or his cane all that favorably.
I think Viktor sees his disability aids as necessary indignities that he'd rather do without if he could. See how quickly he drops his crutch once he tests out being able to run post-experimentation. He probably only goes back and gets it, rather than abandoning it there, because he wants to continue to hide the experiments he's doing.
Combine that with Jayce noting how he saw his leg as a "weakness" and I think there is further evidence that Viktor sees his crutch or cane rather negatively.
Which is a roundabout way of saying, I don't think Viktor would use his crutch or his cane as a hook or a bludgeon against Jayce not only because he's arguably the most pacifistic character in the whole show, but also because I don't think he really likes using it or thinking about it for anything but its intended purpose of assisting his mobility. I think Jayce views Viktor's crutch more favorably than Viktor does, he sees it as a part of Viktor in a positive way, an extension of him.
As for the topic of Zaun, I do agree that I think some fics give Viktor more of a, hmm, "class consciousness" around Zaun than he's shown to have?
For example:
Viktor only ever calls it "the undercity" in S1. Calling it Zaun at all is something that radicals like Silco do, it's even implied that Silco is kind of resurrecting a long-dead name for the area as part of his separatist movement, so it might not even be in wide use beyond Silco's circles, like Viktor may not have even really heard of it as a common term in S1. In addition, if "Zaun" is a politically charged term, I wouldn't be surprised if Viktor would avoid calling it that at all, because he's not a separatist or a radical, he's just from there and he thinks of it as "the undercity". Viktor is not shown as someone from the undercity who really wants to rock the boat in Piltover politically and he's certainly not a separatist, he wants to help the undercity as a disadvantaged community within Piltover.
The only time I think we see Viktor call it "Zaun" is somewhat in the abstract in S2, when he admires Vander's vision for "Zaun as it could have been". To me, it felt like he was discussing Zaun as a distant ideal rather than as the place where he was currently located or a political identity he identified with. He admires that other people who are more political than him had a cohesive vision for something the undercity that Viktor knows could become.
Viktor is actually incredibly apolitical, which is interesting when you consider he was assistant to Heimerdinger, who was head of the Council. He considers Jayce's time as a Councilor a "waste of our time", it never even occurs to him to use that political power to improve lives in the undercity, instead of science. In general Viktor tends to be pretty blind to other discipline besides science when it comes to bettering the world, and is even dismissive of them, which I think is a bit narrow-minded of him to be honest.
Viktor's dismissiveness towards anything that isn't science when it comes to improving lives is certainly a factor in how his and Jayce's relationship becomes strained in S1, he never sees Jayce's work as a Councilor as potentially offering a broader avenue for achieving their goals to help the undercity, not once, which is actually rather baffling and interesting that he has this blindspot (possibly because of my theory that at a certain point in S1, once he knows he's rapidly dying, Viktor is only using "helping the undercity" as a smokescreen to others but mostly himself to cover up his shame for the fact he really just wants to use Hextech to save himself while the undercity has become secondary, but he doesn't want to admit that. That also explains his shame when he sees Sky's notes and realizes he's been trying to save himself to the exclusion of all else, that he's lost sight of his larger goals and dreams.)
Even when Viktor starts the cult in the undercity, it's not a politically motivated enclave, he doesn't describe it as part of a Zaunite movement. It really is just posed as a refuge for those in need, separate entirely I would argue from the Piltover vs. Zaun conflict, unlike Ekko's Firelights who provide shelter AND do community action and freedom fighting. Indeed, Viktor heals Salo, a Councilor, the most privileged of the privileged from Piltover. I'd argue this is an additional sign that he is "colorblind" when it comes to the conflict between the two cities.
Finally, I would argue that Viktor is from a generation that somewhat precedes the class conflicts and brewing civil war between Piltover and the undercity. I think he's from a generation where the cities were still linked enough that they were more like the "good" and the "bad" side of the tracks. He was smart enough to get out and make something of himself in the big city, he has a goal of helping to uplift those he left behind, but he sees them as one city still even if he has sympathy later for a separatist movement. The way he talks about the undercity to me feels less like a separate entity and more a particular disadvantaged community within Piltover.
Anyway, I've gone off on like three crazy wild tangents based on your reply. Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed that post! And I agree, of all the Zaunites, Viktor is actually quite different from the others and that is really interesting to explore!
#THANK YOUUU#i see people project a political motivation onto him that really doesn't exist nearly as much as one may assume#and again with the 'sassy mean viktor' thing. when he teases jayce it's usually light friendly teasing#sometimes i see him getting written like a grandma whacking you with his cane and telling you to pick your shit up off the floor#of course he's a part of politics because he's from the undercity and he's faced discrimination because of that and bc of his disability#his existence is politicized in a way it's clear he never wanted it to be. he does not lean into it though. he tries to stick to science#which to him is objective and apolitical - of course it very much isn't and that becomes a point of conflict plotwise#it is neither free of emotion nor untouched by political agendas#i mean like imo there's a reason we don't get much of viktor's backstory or see him go to the undercity or talk about it#(rather one of the pivotal things they choose to show us from his childhood is his empathy for Rio. he's lonely but has a big heart)#to me it's because that's not the story he wants to tell. he doesn't think it important to emphasize that connection.#he wants to be seen as his own person worthy of legacy on his own merit. he feels shackled by every perceived setback in his life#whether that's his leg or his illness or his place of upbringing. he sees those things as necessary to overcome and overcompensate for#so he can just do the work he wants to do unburdened by physical limitations or the perception and judgment of those around him#i feel like people might project onto him what they feel are 'correct' or 'progressive' ways of thinking that someone like him should have#and thus ignore how he's actually presented as thinking and feeling about himself and his place in the world#he knows he's worked twice as hard for half the recognition compared to piltover students at the academy#but he has no desire to utilize that as political fodder to make a point or even start a conversation about zaun#he just wants to be allowed to have the opportunities he deserves to work on important science.#i think he'd prefer if peers stop making a point about him being from the undercity and congratulating him on coming so far#and just treat him equally#he doesn't forget where he's from and as we see he genuinely wishes to help the undercity population out of compassion#for their plight. but there's no indication he wanted to engage in the larger piltover/zaun conflict and definitely not become a#political pawn in it as he perceived jayce getting sucked into.#thank you avelera for being one of the true viktor understanders#i hope when i finally try to write some fic i do him justice @asgardian--angels
I've absolutely LOVED your tag essays on these meta posts and I just wanted to thank you for this one, highlight, and add my agreement that there is a tendency in fandom for people to ascribe "correct' or "progressive" ways of thinking to characters that they share themselves or would execute on if they were in that character's position.
However, I also see this tendency as part of fandom-inevitable Flanderization and/or process of filing away all the sharp and unique edges a character might have, often until they devolve into thinly veiled versions of the author, or who the author would want to be in their place, up to and including ascribing progressive and activist politics to characters who are apolitical or even conservative.
To me, I find such changes to characters boring overall. I don't want to read about characters doing what they "should" do or being perfect little paragons with nothing that can be criticized about them. Holding perfect political views and acting stridently on them is just one way I see this evolution happen when characters inevitably drift from canon to fanon over the course of repeated fanworks.
That said, 1) I will never, ever actually fault an author for telling the story they want to tell. I might not personally find it interesting, but people should always tell the story they want to tell but also:
2) I think there is a plausible tale to tell with Viktor becoming political. There's plenty of seeds and events there within his story and the wider story of Arcane for him to get sucked into the political maelstrom and even become a champion on Zaun's behalf as a political entity in a way he never does in the show. And I'd be super curious to read such a fic! I just think it would require an extra step within the fic for me to find it plausible for Viktor to do so, given his demonstrated blindspot and apathy towards politics. Honestly, a mirror story where Viktor gets sucked into political life in Zaun the same way Jayce got sucked into political life in Piltover would be super interesting, either as a total AU (where Viktor is political instead of Jayce) OR with both becoming political, and Viktor realizing he's been overly harsh to Jayce and that if the situation was reversed, he'd do a lot of the same things to help his home.
Anyway, at the risk of another long and rambling tangent, I just want to say I love these tags and also I really loved your observations about how Viktor wants to be judged on his own merits! Getting off my soapbox now lol
Reading your post about the Piltover vs. Zaun arc in Arcane s2, I wonder what your thoughts were/are about the alternate universe Heimerdinger and Ekko visited? I felt "the death of one child" leading to to the utopia that Silco + Vander were aiming for was highly implausible (no *particular* real-life counterpoints come to mind) and wishful thinking from the writers.
I think it can be argued that the division point could have been somewhere else or there could have been more than one. Heck, the real division point could be that Oriana never got sick so Singed/Dr. Reveck never developed Shimmer and that's the reason why Silco was open to reconciling with Vander after Vi's death in the first place. If you want to believe that more happened or that other factors were also in play, I don't think the alt universe explicitly denies it.
That said, I do think that within the story, it is clearly meant to be Vi's death and the subsequent butterfly effect that led to the "utopia" such as we see it, like you say. We can speculate but it is very heavily implied that it led to Vander and Silco reconciling but, more importantly to my eyes, it led to Hextech being stifled before it could ever fully blossom, which is in keeping with Arcane's larger themes, particularly around the Shimmer vs. Hextech arms race and its larger place in the Piltover vs. Zaun narrative and juxtaposition.
It's not just the possibility of a Vander/Silco reconciliation/marriage (which is more central to S2 as a "what-if" than S1) but really the sort of monkey's paw impact of Hextech (it's not a gift, it's a curse), the arms race it set off with Shimmer in the undercity, the hyper acceleration of Piltover society away from its previous industries and thus away from its need to support the undercity in any way, because now they had magically-enhanced international trade instead and therefore turned a blind eye to Silco's takeover down there, etc etc.
Honestly, I don't find it all that implausible or naive though that the "small" occurrence of Vi's death led to this because S1 of Arcane, literally every single second of it, every single scene, is structurally answering one question, "How did we reach this point where Jinx, who was once a traumatized and seemingly insignificant little girl from the undercity, fires this rocket at the Council thus changing the fate of everyone in the city, and what are all the points previously where it could have been prevented?" And S1 is so tightly written you can actually choose almost any given scene and see that if it had gone the other way, Jinx and the rocket wouldn't have happened.
And that exact layering of butterfly effect scene after butterfly effect scene in S1 goes all the way back to the start chronologically, the actual inciting incident that pre-dates Vander and Silco, which is when one child did not die: Jayce in the snow, when the Mage rescued him and his mother, which brings the story full circle in time as Jayce eventually goes on to create the Mage through magic, who will one day go back and save him and spark his love of magic.
So again, I don't find it naive or implausible or out of keeping with Arcane's themes that the death of one child can cause such a huge ripple effect (and there are still signs that not everything is perfect in the alt world, it's just a kinder place by comparison to canon) because the canon world is based off of the survival of one child in a situation where he realistically should have died and the entire plot and question central to S1 is about the incredible impact one once-disadvantaged child (Jinx) can have.
I think the themes the writers were trying to speak to were less, "Entrenched societal evils can be overcome by one small change an a community coming together over one child's death." And more, "By every death in the world we are changed and even the smallest person can change the course of the future in unpredictable ways, some good, some bad, because no one is an island and everyone is significant in ways you can't imagine."
Oh, and I will counter that no one death has ever led to massive societal change, when at the time many people credited the launching of the Arab Spring to the death of one young man, Mohamed Bouazizi.
I went and did a lil reviewing and its very interesting to look at Lila's situation regarding Catalyst and there's some fun observations to make in a vacuum.
1: This girls room has tons of masks.
I know that isn't a major thing but given what we know of her its like, "So you just wanna shout that you have a complicated relationship with identity is that it?!"
2: Her mom does work at the embassy
On the surface she seems nice enough if maybe very busy given she says she'll "Try" and be back before dinner. One can take Lila growling once she's gone as directed at Ladybug or her mother, or both.
But the dynamic also feels 'weird' & Lila's clearly used to instantly masking whatever she's actually feeling around her.
Assuming a "No child is born super evil" read, I'd say that either she is like Andre in that she can performatively show affection. But is not actually there for their child when they need it. In this case likely having failed Lila at some major interval that left a deep divide.
Or that she's one of those parents who can seem very nice and reasonable but if angered or offended or disgusted react very, very badly. I'd actually say this one feels the most likely given it would contextualize Lila's deceptive habits very neatly.
3: How much did she know?
The question of if Lila was "In on it" or a willing participant in the scheme is interesting. Cos its obvious she didn't know Gabriel's identity. But more to the point, thats he clearly wasn't even expecting Hawk Moth to come for her given she was surprised.
Like there is no one to be performing for here, that is genuine shock.
However, we all see her smirking after Hawk Moth has the Akuma leave her. But its worth noting she wasn't purified, the Butterfly just left. So while its obviously a headcanon I do feel the shift from shock and panic to stoic confidence is weird enough to thin it could mean more than just Lila is the devil.
Also is it just me or do her eyes seem more lifeless?
We do have Gabriel's dialogue to go off:
Hawk Moth: Fly away, my little akuma and evilize the one who's been waiting your return for so long.
But we've also seen him call Chloe his favorite "Victim" and its not exactly uncommon for people taking advantage of others to frame their victim as a willing participant.
With that in mind!
4: Oh they were 100% grooming Lila, yikes
So, we know from season 3 that Gabriel & Nathalie were fine undermining Chloe's mental health to the point of sabotage, gaslighting and hostage taking.
Thus it is perhaps no surprise they were doing the same with Lila.
Don't believe me? They have literal cameras on a fourteen year old and have clearly been keeping her under observation in their own words, for months!
Nathalie: (Hands Gabriel her tablet) Lila has been harboring her rage against Ladybug for months, and today wherever she looks, she'll see the object of her hatred, and as predicted, her anger will reach devastating heights. Your plan is perfect, sir.
But more pointedly is what is not said, or more, what is talked around, see this exchange:
Lila: (scrolls through laptop) Liar! Traitor! Coward! (comes across an interview with Gabriel Agreste and Nadja Chamack)
Gabriel: (on the laptop) In honor of the wonderful Ladybug who has saved my son Adrien and myself, and who relentlessly protects all of us everyday, I have financed this tribute to Ladybug. Because Ladybug is the only true hero unlike her mediocre imitations, such as Volpina.
Lila: (screams with rage and throws her laptop against a wall) I hate you, Ladybug!
Cue laptop against wall and then crying on the floor, again there is no one to perform for here, this has to be a genuine reaction.
What stands out to me is Lila's choice of words: Liar! Traitor! Coward!
If she was just angry he praised Ladybug & insulted Volpina these words don't make any sense. But they make a ton of sense if Gabriel or someone representing her contacted Lila about her time as Volpina.
(It does not seem Paris is aware she was an Akuma)
Likely telling her about Heroes' Day or otherwise framing themselves as very interested and impressed with Volpina saving Paris from that meteor. Only so they could have Gabriel twist the knife in on an interview.
Conclusion:
That's just an assumption but if not, why not call Gabriel a jerk and a fool or something, traitor and coward have very specific connotations that don't make sense unless she'd been led to believe Gabriel thought highly of Volpina,
Hell, how would they even know she'd find the interview unless she knew to look for it?
Yes yes, story contrivances, but if we want to base out logic in universe, Nathalie & Gabriel preyed again on an isolated and to one degree or another neglected as well as troubled child. Fed into her many issues, likely helping foster her isolation & resentments, just to betray and humiliate her for the purpose of using her as a weapon.
That is deeply fucked up, especially when you consider that they were spying on her and she has no idea any of this is happening!
All in all, I think its quite reasonable to read Lila as a fourteen year old taken advantage of and steadily warped by adults' who were using her for their own gain as opposed to someone just born evil.
I feel like I've come to the conclusion that I like carmen and gray because I can see why they like each other like I can tell you the reasons why
gray was carmen's first physical friend who was there with her all the time, she was at an important time of her life and he was an important part of it, who she genuinely got really close to and connected with so much so, she wanted him and only him to come to her side.
Carmen is the first friend gray made and came to care for when he had no intention of it whatsoever, further exemplified by the brainwashing arc.
Hey guys, Yk how everyone in the VILE class has an animal except for Gray? (Black Sheep, Le Chèvre... Mimebomb... I'd argue mimes are an animal.) I think Gray's 'assigned animal' should be an Australian Shepherd
"That's such a basic answer of course you would say that" NO NO NO LISTEN. Yes the 'Australia' part is fun... But I'm talking about the 'Shepherd' part. And I don't think enough people talk about the Shepherd part.
Walk with me gang. Dog boy essay.
Most of Gray's story is tied to Carmen and 'trying to bring her back', I mean, that's his whole deal in the first 2 episodes is it not? Gray trying to bring Black Sheep home?
And then by the end of the show what is he doing? Same dang thang,
Though technically here he's trying to bring 'the real Carmen' back here, not 'Black Sheep', I'd argue they're the same person and my point still stands, silly
I'd argue this is all very herding dog behaviour™ of him, trying to bring Black Sheep home? Uhh?? Sir your dawg is showing.
Also, dogs, especially working dogs like Australian Shepherds, are stereotypically VERY loyal to their masters. They come back when they're called! Argue with me all you like about if Gray was 'truly loyal to VILE' or whatever- but you have to admit HE CAME BACK. With that entire speech in the Himalayan rescue caper, yk the one.
In spite of their name, Australian Shepherds aren't the 'Shepherd'. They're the dog. They're the grunt who does the heavy work while the real shepherd (VILE) reaps the reward, and maybe tosses them a bone and a pat on the head every now and then.
While Gray is a 'bad guy', he is not THE big bad. I think he's motivated to do the things he does out of a desire for belonging + power/success and a bit of sunk cost fallacy (which is "I've come so far I can't turn back now" mentality) He's not some scheming mastermind, nor is he innocent, he just kinda is! And I think that is very dog of him.
Also he got fucking microchipped? Hello??
Chief why did you dodat.....
Outside of that it's just vibes and my insanity. Peace and love, feel free to agree/disagree/add on to this!
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