āI think Iām fighting my natural tendency towards austerityā - An Interview with Sophie Goldstein
Sophie Goldstein is a cartoonist and illustrator based in Pittsburgh, PA. Sophieās most recent graphic novel The Oven was published by AdHouse Books, and was met with critical acclaim. You can see my review of The Oven here.
House of Women is Goldsteinās ongoing comics project, and the second volume debuted at SPX in 2015. The story features a group of women serving as a kind of educational mission expeditionary force for a galactic Empire that wishes to educate the natives of a jungle planet. But struggles internal to the group and the strain of the unknowns of a foreign planet make the education mission much more uncertain and dangerous than previously thought. The first volume in the series won the 2014 Ignatz award for āOutstanding Mini Comic.ā Sophie was nice enough to talk with me about the series and her goals for the third volume.
Alex Hoffman: Thanks for taking the time to talk with me Sophie.
Sophie Goldstein: Itās my pleasure.
AH: In my mind, much of your work straddles the line between science fiction and horror. Iām thinking about some of your short stories, but House of Women specifically has this psychological tension associated with the unknown. I was wondering if you could talk about that.
SG: Iāve always had an interest in science fiction, first as a reader and then later as a writer. I think what I like about it most is that it allows me to explore the psychology of characters in situations geared towards extremesālike the desert wastelands of The Oven or the exoticized fecund wilderness and natives of House of Women. I donāt have to worry about the āplausibilityā of any story beyond the internal logic of the story and the characters.
The only time Iāve set out to make a straight-up horror comic was for Spike Trotmanās Sleep of Reason anthology. My other comics with horror elements, āFood Chainā for Trip 8 and āThe Good Wifeā from Best American Comics 2013, are body horror in SF and Fantasy clothing.
I donāt really know why body horror comes up in my workāwhen I watch horror movies I prefer supernatural horror to anything overly bloody or violentābut itās certainly fun to draw. I think itās a lot easier to take abstracted in a comic then literally depicted on a screen. I remember watching an episode of Ćon Flux when I was a pre-teen that basically scarred me for life.
With regards to House of Women I will say that if you think it has a horror vibe nowā¦ just wait for Part III.
AH: Thatās exciting - I donāt really like horror movies, but Iām a big fan of horror comics and horror fiction. I think that there are great things about horror as a genre but I really hate a jump scare.
SG: A lot of horror enthusiasts think jump scares are cheap but I love being scared and however the filmmaker gets there is alright by me. Horror comics operate in a different way though. Page turns can be effective tools for surprise, but you canāt control how long someone has to take in an image like you can in film. I think the best horror comics explore the psychological and existential dimensions of the genre.
AH: I agree. I think that my being able to control the page turn and see the image is a huge reason why I like horror comics. I want to be scared, but on my terms. Itās sort of a contradiction.
SG: When I was a kid I really loved those āScary Stories to Tell in the Darkā books, but I sometimes found the illustrations so frightening that I would cover them up with a sheet of paper while I was reading the text and only remove the paper to glance at them. So, I get where youāre coming from.
AH: In a lot of ways I feel like The Oven, your new book with AdHouse, is science fiction set in the ānow.ā There are all these contemporary references that resonated for me, especially with the ongoing heroin crisis in the heartland. It feels like House of Women has a lot of imagery that reminds me of 70s science fiction. Do you think anything in particular inspired this story or its setting?
SG: House of Women is largely inspired by Powell and Pressburgerās 1947 film masterpiece Black Narcissus, about a group of nuns who start a school in the Himalayan mountains. I took the basic framework of the story and recast it in a science fiction setting and I think itās those science fiction elements which drove the plot in a somewhat different direction from the movie.
The visual look of the comic is based on Art Nouveau artists like Aubrey Beardsley, Klimt, Mucha and the Japanese woodcuts that inspired them. I also treated P. Craig Russellās āThe Magic Fluteā as a kind of art-nouveau-comics-bible.
I donāt think there are any 70ās references I drew from but if you can think of any specific titles I will definitely add them to my reading list.
AH: I wouldnāt say itās a specific film or book, but it feels like some of the emotional texture jives with some of the science fiction Iāve seen from that time period. The hopeful exploration and colonization from earlier science fiction gets recast in a more cynical light, and thereās a xenophobia to that fiction that feels similar, although I donāt necessarily know that I would call any of your characters xenophobic.
SG: I would! All the characters have a patronizing/paternalistic attitude towards the nativesāeven Kizzy, who loves them, and Jael, who lives very closely with the natives. I guess in many ways theyāre just like the British colonialists of Black NarcissusāTNG this aināt.
AH: Thatās a great point - and I think Star Trek is a great example of earlier science fiction, with its grandiosity and its hopefulness. Ā
SG: Well, Star Trek is very much of the era in which it was originally conceivedāthe 1960ās. Science fiction before that tended to be more jingoistic and since then has more often dwelt on the possible costs of technological advances then its benefits. However, I think one possible explanation for this negative bias may be that stories need conflict, rather than that writers have become more cynicalāRoddenberryās utopian vision for Star Trek often caused a lot of consternation in the writerās room.
AH: One of the similarities of your two latest major projects is the rigidity of the major background powers in your stories - Iām thinking about the governance of the bubble cities in The Oven and The Empire in House of Women. Could you speak to that?
SG: Itās not something I set out to do, but I would say it most likely stems from my coupled distrust of large organizations, with their opaque anti-human agendas, and a more utilitarian need for a story catalyst.
AH: I wanted to take some time to ask you about the construction of House of Women as a physical object. These books have die-cut covers, rounded edges, gold ink overlay, a color page insert - theyāre gorgeous physical objects. But my guess is that theyāre a lot of work?
SG: Oh my yes. Iāve had a lot of practice (Part I is up to 400 copies) but theyāre still laborious. The covers are black ink on gold paperānot gold ink on black, so thatās a lot easier to manage. Everything can be printed at my local copy shop if Iāve ordered the paper ahead of time.
Probably the most time-consuming part are the die-cuts, which are done by hand with an x-acto knife. The rounded edges are done with a vintage corner-rounder I bought off ebay and will probably never use again after the full run is done.
It is worth it thoughāpeople really respond to thoughtfully produced mini-comics. I think thereās will always be a market for physical books, even as the digital experience improves; itās just up to the artists to make that book an aesthetic experience as well as a good story.
AH: I think that when you start expanding the way you think about book design, a book can become a much more multisensory experience. The die cuts especially invite the reader to āfeelā your comic as well as read it.
SG: I want the reader to feel as if theyāre being drawn into the book through the die-cut windows. Or, at the very least, to make them interested enough to open the book and see whatās inside. I guess the feeling I most want to evoke is curiosity.
AH: One of the keys to the conflict in issue two of House of Women is the idea of the native transition from a larval agender to either a male or female gender. From what we understand, the male of the species is dangerous to the women of the expedition. But the information about the males of the species comes from a somewhat disreputable source, also male. What Iām sort of getting at, in a roundabout way, is that the male gender in this comic is associated with all of the tension and violence of the series. Iām seeing corollaries in our world, and Iām wondering if you could talk about that theme.
SG: Iām not sure I entirely agree with that interpretation. Jael may be, as you say, disreputable, but Iād hardly call him violent. Rhivka is a far more destructive figure. Nor do I think the extreme gender disparity of the Mopu natives represents my own views on men and women. I guess, if I had to be in the uphappy position of interpreting my own work, Iād say they represent the concepts of femininity and masculinity.
Iām sure there are larger sociological implications, like you alluded to, but as a writer I generally find it more fruitful to focus on the psychology of my characters and the engines of my plots and leave the larger thematic thinking to the critics and readers.
AH: Thatās a hard way for me to think about comics, but I think it makes a lot of sense as the writer. What I meant with Jael isnāt necessarily the violence piece, but I think his presence is a major source of tension between the women in the cast.
AH: One thing Iāve noticed in all of your comics, and House of Women especially, is an economy of narrative. You tend to let readers discover the world as you move along, and you let small ticks, facial expressions, or conversations do the worldbuilding. Would you agree with that observation?
SG: I think I would call that my best case scenario. Ā Thereās a tendency in science fiction to over-explain or get distracted by the minutiae of world-building, but I try to avoid anything thatās purely expository.
Acting is very important to me and probably the drawing task I spend the most time on. I love static sequences where you can see the changes in a characterās expression and gesture. Rhivka is by far the broadest character to draw in terms of expressive range and thatās probably why sheās my favorite. Sarai is the hardest to draw because her expressions are so subtleāwhich is unfortunate because sheās in pretty much every scene.
With House of Women I do slow down somewhat and I include a lot of atmospheric shotsāpeople moving through the palace and the surrounding jungleābut probably what seems slow and lush to me might still seem lean to a reader. I think Iām fighting my natural tendency towards austerity.
AH: Austerity is a fascinating word to use in regards to a creative process. Could you explain that a bit more?
SG: Iāve never had a lot of ābusinessā in my stories; fun bits that donāt have any specific purpose beyond enhancing the readerās enjoyment (or indulging the writer). Usually if I have a scene in there it has a specific function in the story; either moving the plot forward, revealing character, or ideally both. The same goes for the visuals. I donāt think thatās necessarily a better way to write but itās my style and I donāt think I can really escape it.
AH: The ending of House of Women Part II leaves us on tenuous ground, especially with the pending transformation of Zaza and the rift between two of the members of the Empireās expedition. What are your goals for the rest of the series? Is Part III the final act?
SG: Yes! Part III will be the finalāhopefully thrillingāconclusion to the series. Having started this book back in 2013 I would have to say my biggest goal is just to git āer done, so to speak.
Itās hard to have a project drawn out over an extended period of time, interwoven with other deadlines and projects, and still be fired up about it. I think Iāve been fortunate in retaining my excitement for House of Women, possibly because itās just so different than anything else Iāve done and the art is much more interesting to create.
Also, I hope people like it? Thatās a definite goal. Iāve had some very devoted readers for Parts I and II and Iād hate to leave them disappointed.
Thanks again Sophie for speaking with me. You can see more of Sophie Goldsteinās work and find out more about House of Women here.
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