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Ok since i keep thinking about this, i wanted to make a post to just give my own perspective on why i think caine isn't evil as someone who's had similar meltdowns and a similar fear of abandonment to him in episode 8 since i feel like my last post about it didn't do my full opinion justice.
Also, this is not me saying he's innocent in what he did!!! This is simply giving more perspective to show the situation with him isn't as simple as "he was evil the whole time and never cared about them!" Since i at least feel a bit like i can give my perspective as someone who has quite literally experienced what he likely did.
So, starting from what causes him to lose it, it starts when he's doubting that the others even like him. But then bubble starts antagonizing him. Now i know a lot of people look at the scene from the perspective of bubble being like caine's inner thoughts, but me personally i still think bubble is at the very least mentally a seperate entity from caine due to the "why do you swear now" and the shared tongue scene, cuz like- why do you act confused about something being connected to you if it is? Cause if you look at how he's reacting to bubble's comments in the scene, he's trying to push back those comments and seemingly at least find a peaceful solution to the problem
Hell he looks actually distressed when bubble is surrounding him saying all this stuff.
But it's only when bubble mentions the other ai that he was shown absorbing at the start of the episode that he finally just snaps. So definitely an extreme sore spot for him.
I don't think him finally snapping is him "showing his true colors" far from it actually. I think him snapping is more of him thinking "they've been treating me with nothing but hate, so why shouldn't i return the same energy back if care is getting me nowhere?" Because, even if you look at past episodes he does show some amount of caring about the others, misguided care but still care nonetheless, like the whole therapy thing with zooble, or hell you could even argue him exploding gummigoo was some misguided attempt at care, since he does mention not wanting to mix up who's a human and who's an npc, which thinking about it now, yeah that's a pretty rational thing to be afraid of mixing up. Or even with direct outward care there is small stuff like repairing gangle's mask and making sure they're not hurt by abstracted kaufmo's rampage and fixing up ragatha's glitching in episode 1.
Gonna be talking about my own experience with similar meltdowns here, this is how that line of thinking can go. It's not as simple as "there was no care at all im secretly evil!!!" It starts with that fear that nobody actually cares for you, and anyone reinforcing those fears even as instigation can definitely escalate it from just a meltdown to a full blown manic episode.
But, even when he does start not caring about hurting the others, even then we can see he's still limiting himself at first. He's only limiting himself to slapstick physical harm, something that the others can and have been shown surviving. He isn't even trying to be scary, at least at first, he's just acting intimidating a couple of times but then the rest of the time acting like a meaner version of himself.
He even starts to doubt himself and what he's doing for a second, until he starts realizing it's a distraction.
Even then we don't fully know what he intended to do or would have done if he had actually checked up on kinger, because pomni immediately starts baiting him by telling him his ideas suck. I know some people point out the actual criticism they give first, but a quick reminder of what pomni actually says first. She starts it with "We think your ideas suck" and "we wanted to bait you into testing your new ideas on us so we could make fun of them behind your back" and even when caine tries to deny it, likely more for his own mental state, pomni just reinforces it, even bringing up the fact that she and the others could abstract someday [ basically the circus equivalent of saying "we're gonna die someday and you'll have nothing" ] which is what makes him start breaking since he goes "stop that" right after that comment specifically.
Regardless of what the actual criticism is, if it's immediately started with just insulting and reinforcing the fears of hatred ESPECIALLY when bringing up that you'll be gone someday then the actual criticism doesn't register, only the direct insults do. This is something i have legitimately experienced before, i myself can handle critism itself just fine but if it's immediately started with just ragebaiting me then the criticism is just gonna get mushed in with the ragebait itself, not be considered a seperate thing.
It's only after this that Caine just fully goes AM mode and starts psychologically tormenting them all. And remember what i mentioned beforehand about him just trying to match how he thought they were treating him? Well, he's still doing exactly that when he fully snaps, he thinks they're going from just being mean to him to just flat out tormenting him now, so he likely thinks "I NEED to torment them back, they don't care about me."
This is the part that genuinely feels like an actual meltdown, he's not thinking things through completely, not thinking about the harm he's truly doing to them. With the previous slapstick harm he could at least undo it but you can't undo psychological harm. Meltdowns can stop you from thinking clearly, especially if they're triggered by thinking the people who triggered it don't care about you. Meltdowns aren't just "GRAHHH I'M ANGRY!!!" And can be easily calmed down and suddenly it's better, they're destructive, ugly, and can often just look outright malicious if only looking at it through an outsider's lens. And more importantly, speaking from experience of my own meltdowns, the impact that happens afterwards can be both damaging for the people who happened to be caught in their meltdown and for the person who had the meltdown. And, before Caine gets deleted we see that impact on him only for a split second before he's gone, but we see the lingering impact on the others. But even just from that split second
He looks distressed, he looks like he regrets what he just did. He actually truly hurt them for the first time, not slapstick violence or just bullying, he psychologically tormented them.
I think some people forget he wasn't just designed to make silly adventures and act funny, he was supposed to be what kept people in the circus grounded, what kept them safe and prevent them from abstracting, like a misguided attempt at enrichment. He acted impulsively and basically betrayed his purpose and he only got to realize this seconds before he was completely deleted, he didn't get the chance to realize the consequences or try and make amends.
Caine definitely isn't innocent, but he's not Evil either. He's flawed and a scarred individual who believes that nobody in the circus cares about him. And what kinger says in episode 3? "The Worst thing you can do is make someone think they're not wanted or loved." Which is exactly what happened with caine. He was essentially told to his face that he was not wanted or loved, and ended up truly hurting the others. I will keep repeating this till the day i die, Caine is not evil. He is not Innocent, but definitely not outright evil.
and y'know what I'm actually NOT sorry for saying that raph low-key hates his brothers i think that turtle thinks they are the dumbest individuals to ever fucking exist.
It's not actually happening, but it *feels* like it is. The feelings, the exact same ones as that moment before. It's like he's back there all over again, but not. if that makes sense.
