Thoughts from Salle Green @sallegreen-blog - Tumblr Blog

How Many Touches?

To win a fencing bout you must score 5 touches (pool bouts), 10 or 15 (depending on age group in direct elimination), or 1 (Modern Pentathlon or classical epee). It does not matter in what order your 5, 10, or 15 are scored compared to the touches the opponent does or does not score, except that you must complete your number first (in a 1 touch bout you have to score the 1 and only touch first).

“So what,” you are saying to yourself, “everyone knows that.” But I am not at all sure we do know it. Watch a bout – you will find yourself attaching significant importance to the order. If I am ahead by 1 or 2 or 3, surely I have an advantage, surely I will win. The danger is that I will believe this. There is no magical value associated with a lead or with being behind; I still have to get to 5 or 10 or 15.

If we remove the psychological factors, there is no basic difference between winning every touch from the start to score 15 to 0 or winning 15 straight touches from starting at 0 to 14 to win 15 to 14 (assuming that we are not worried about indicators or energy management). That reduces the problem to one of managing imperfection in the fencer’s technique, making superior tactical choices in terms of technique, distance, timing, etc., and predicting the opponent’s equivalent choices. Eliminating the friction caused by imperfection, bad tactical choices, or imperfect anticipation should increase the probability of being able to get to 15 first in any combination of scores.

That for most fencers a lead is a significant advantage results from the impact of the lead in discouraging the opponent and in elevating their own confidence, and with it their performance. At the same time, it may induce overconfidence or the desire to protect the victory rather than winning it. It may also inspire the opponent to heroic effort or to effective risk taking. Treating the score as a management problem in executing your bout plan rather than as something with a magical value of its own, may help you get to 5, 10, or 15 first regardless of where you are in the bout.

The Military Sabre?

In studying the use of the sabre in the period 1800-1900 for my teaching guide, Broadsword, Sabre, and Cutlass in the 1800s, I have become puzzled by the historical European martial arts community’s fascination with the military sabre. Has anyone ever seen a type of sabre produced exclusively for civilian use? I have never seen reference to one or to specifically civilian sabre training or combat methods. None of the commonly accepted sources on US and British edged weapons that I have consulted have pictured or described one.

Of course there are plenty of civilian swords - the US in particular is awash in straight bladed, double edged swords carried by various religious and fraternal groups. There are diplomatic swords, Finnish doctoral swords, and the obligatory smallsword carried by gentlemen in the 1700s and into the early 1800s. There are distinctive dueling sabres, such as the heavy corps sabre of German academical fencing, and sabres intended for sport fencing. Neither of these categories are exclusively civilian, and military officers dueled with dueling sabres and fenced with sport sabres.

As someone who has fenced with the sabre since 1965, who owns sabres from the 1800s, who has borne a sabre as a uniform item in his capacity as an officer, and who has studied the use of the sabre, I believe a sabre is a sabre. Calling it a “military sabre” does not endow it with any greater magical properties than the sabre already has, does not distinguish it from the non-existent civilian sabre, does not bestow a military mantle upon you if you are not already serving or a veteran, and sounds a little silly to those of us with a long attachment to the weapon.

So, does your fencing club have an elevator pitch?

Elevator pitch, we don’t have an elevator! No, no, an elevator pitch is a short speech, 30 seconds or less, that captures what is important about what you do. It is intended to capture the interest of the person you are talking to, to stimulate questions, generate further discussion, and hopefully sell fencing and your club to the person in the “elevator” with you. Be factual, don’t promise what you don’t have or can’t deliver - if they show up and your club is not as advertised both you and fencing lose.

Our club has three - one about fencing, one about professional coaches and the difference they make, and one about the club. Our club pitch:

Salle Green is the only fencing club recognized by both USA Fencing and the Fencing Coaches Association as a center of excellence. Every coach is professionally certified and participates in regular continuing education; every lesson is planned as part of an annual training program. We have a great mix of competitive and recreational fencers, young and old, who are passionate about our sport. Come and learn modern Olympic or classical fencing at Salle Green.

#fencing #elevator pitch

Double Elimination?

Last night our Salle classes used the normal bouting period to fence class tournaments by double elimination. Double elimination - what is that and why would you do it?

In simple terms double elimination is a tree system with rounds very much like direct elimination (which everyone other than fencers calls single elimination). The difference is that when a fencer loses, he or she goes into an alternate tree and is not eliminated until a second loss occurs. From the fencer’s perspective there is more fencing and an opportunity to overcome one bad performance. Seeding is not as critical as it is in single elimination. From the organizer’s perspective, however, double elimination is more difficult than direct elimination. Just running the tableau requires training and/or specialized software. Figuring out placings is complicated. And the system lacks the simple finality of direct elimination.

But fencing does have a version of double elimination. Enter the fifth set of rules. We have previously discussed that there are four sets of rules, the three different versions of the FIE Rules of Fencing and the USA Fencing Athlete’s Handbook. That is not all there is – there is also the USA Fencing Operations Manual. And in the Operations Manual there is a provision for direct elimination with repechage.

Repechage is more complicated than double elimination. The Operations Manual discusses it in the context of double elimination from the round of 32 through to a round of 8 made up of the 4 winners of the regular round of 8 and the 4 winners of the repechage to that point. This final round of 8 returns to normal direct elimination. To understand this, spend some time studying pages 9-88 to 9-96 in the 2011 Operations Manual, updated edition of 21 February 2016.

So, understanding double elimination makes understanding repechage easier. The different format fills a useful training goal of widening experience in different competition formats, thereby helping to build mental flexibility and capacity. And the change of pace keeps a pool format form getting boring.

If you are interested in trying this system there are a number of resources that may help. PrintYourBrackets.com has seeded double elimination trees for a large number of participants that can be filled in for easy use (they say teams, but there is no difference for individual competitors). And John Byl’s Organizing Successful Tournaments will give you a good start at understanding the logic of single and double elimination events

If you have read the first 25 posts you know that this tumblr blog is about fencing, and about perspectives about fencing - modern, classical, and historical. This supplements our regular Salle blog posted on our website with short, sometimes unfinished, sometimes unfocused ideas that appear in the course of the day running a full time fencing school.

#25 posts #tumblr milestone

Rules - At A Recent Tournament

As previously remarked the rules of fencing are a magical thing. At a recent tournament, a male Y12 fencer was informed that the rules required all Y10 and Y12 fencers to wear a man’s rigid chest protector. We have regularly had fencers compete in Y10 and Y12 in North American Cups, Regional Youth Circuit events, and Super Youth Circuit events, plus the normal range of Division and club events. Never has this Rule been applied to any of our male Y10-Y12 fencers. I was perplexed ...

So, we did what any good fencer would do. We cheated - we went to the rule book. USA Fencing’s rule book references underarm protectors in 4 places - you would expect that rigid chest protectors would be found in those places too. But not in t.43 or t.45 or m.25, or in Appendix A. Well what about the other source of rules, The Athlete’s Handbook? The section is 2.16, and it addresses chest protectors. No surprise, women have to wear rigid breast protectors, and men may wear a rigid chest protector ... but wait a minute, “may” does not sound like you have to, and there was no mention of Y10 or Y12 male fencers or that they had different requirements from other male fencers.

Now one last source remained - the rule book has long said that tournament organizers can deviate from the rules if they publish the scope of the deviation in the announcement of the event. So back to the announcement on AskFred we went. And ... nothing, except a plug that the event would be officiated by “experienced referees.”

I guess experienced means that either the club can make up rules, or that the referee can make up rules, and apply them to an advertised tournament with no advanced warning. Ah, the magic of the rules ...

The Rules ...

... of fencing are a magical and wonderful thing. To be sure, there is a rule book -- actually three of them plus one. The Federation Internationale d’Escrime rules are published in French. British Fencing publishes the official English language translation. And then USA Fencing publishes its rule book with unique rules for competitions in the United States. As if that is not enough, USA Fencing also publishes the Athletes Handbook, which includes rules that are not “ the rules,” but are rules nonetheless.

But there are also the actual rules - the interpretations of the rules that, in descending order, reflect:

... current practice in international competition by the highest levels of qualified referees,

... the interpretations of US referees, sometimes codified by the Fencing Officials Commission,

... the interpretations of Division level referees, sometimes based on knowledge of the first two above, sometimes based on personal preference, sometimes based on what they do in their clubs, etc.,

... and finally there are the made-up rules, created on the spot by local referees to fill a void the individual thinks is a void to the advantage of the referee’s status, the advantage of the referee’ s club mates, etc.

The sport of fencing is only peripherally about fencing ... often it is about figuring out which rule set your referee is working with. If you don’t know the rules of the minute, you will lose touches, and probably bouts, you could have won.

#fencing

Why just Pools and a DE?

The vast majority of fencing tournaments are now run in the same format of pools seeding for a direct elimination. Yes, I understand that every one of these is training for the next one for fencers, referees, bout committees and organizers. And, yes, I understand the conventional wisdom that our 10 year old fencers will not grow up to be World Cup Champions if they do not always fence in the same tournament format.

But, to borrow a famous phrase from Emerson, “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” It is fairly well established that variety of experience improves performance in any form of activity. Various theories of neuroplasticity suggest that experiencing different approaches builds new neural connections in the brain increasing decision making capability. That cannot be a bad thing for fencers.

I am not advocating that the official tournament structure be changed. However, in your club it may be worthwhile to experiment with a variety of formats. Some possibilities:

… One touch epee (for many years how epee was fenced and still used for Modern Pentathlon Epee) … or foil, or sabre.

… Five touch bouts in a double elimination tree.

… A chase format where the first fencer to a set of touches scored wins … or where the last fencer to be hit a set number of times wins.

… Reduced time limits – run actual time versus fencing time so that time spent arguing over touches is lost to the fencers.

… Pools in which specific rules are unknown to the fencers but must be discovered during the bouts.

… Handicap events in which fencers are handicapped based on their ability so that better or more highly ranked or classified fencers start with a number of touches already scored against them.

… Bouts in which there is no limit to the number of touches possible in the time allowed for the bout.

There are many other possibilities. If you decide to be adventurous and try one, make sure that your fencers enjoy a challenge and that the format meets your training objectives.

#fencing #fencing training

Lancet Epee

RedStar, a fencing club in Chicago, originated Lancet Fencing. We have modified their rules to fit our facility and keep the logic of the bout more closely aligned with modern or classical fencing and the duel. That said, both Lancet under the Red Star rules and our Lancet Epee make for an interesting way to fence that provides a break from the standard 14 meters, 5 touches, 40 millisecond lock out of epee:

... a much larger terrain - ours is space constrained, but 32 feet by 15 feet, allowing 360 degree maneuvering.

... core targets are generally more valuable than the arms and legs.

... hits within one tempo of the first hit are considered.

... you can parry with the unarmed hand.

A google search will get you to Lancet Fencing, and our modified Lancet Epee rules are available on our website at http://www.sallegreen.com/programs/lancet-epee-fencing/.

#fencing #lancet fencing #epee fencing

Insight from a Compound Riposte ...

... in epee. After working on the disengage riposte, I had two students try a one-two riposte, for fun, as a timing and synchronization exercise, to see how well they could make a classical technique work in the simplified modern game. One of the comments was very useful - “I think I might do this eyes open without even realizing I was doing it.” I have been teaching technique for some time with the message that teaching a technique results in two things: (1) the student knowing how to do the technique and (2) the student knowing what the technique looks like when it is coming at you. Number (2) is really important if the student decides this will not be a core part of their game. I now have a number (3) - to serve as the basis for realizing possibilities. If you don’t know that a one-two riposte is possible, maybe you will never realize that it will solve this particular tactical problem right now.

#fencing #fencing technique #teaching fencing

Why Is Sabre ...

... the recipient of the FIE’s social experiments? Some may remember the long running attacks of the 1960s and 1970s. Then these were resulting in too many simultaneous attacks, so we flipped a coin, gave one fencer the right to do 3 attacks with the other having to defend, repeated the process for the other fencer if no one scored, and then went back to normal fencing until the next time. Of course, that fixed the problem of simultaneous attacks completely, as anyone who has ever watched a current sabre bout can attest. Then the fleche got banned, along with any forward foot crossing, even if it wasn’t even remotely an attack. And we got the strange flunge as a result ... and the capteur, replaced by a heavier blade that penetrated gloves to eliminate the whipover judges used to be able to see. Not to mention the 120 milliseconds lock out, now replaced by 170 in a test that will force scoring machines nationwide to be reprogrammed. The crowning oddity is putting the back foot on the on guard line. We only need now to return to once off, back to the warning line, and the point in line can only be executed standing stock still, to round out my 51st year of fencing sabre in style. What is any of this to do with actually fencing sabre? What has sabre ever done to its governing bodies to deserve this?

#fencing #fencing sabre

Congratulations to Brian Ainley for passing the written and practical tests for award of Classical Academy of Arms Rank 4 in Foil. We use the Classical Academy of Arms (for classical fencers) and Pan American Fencing Academy (for modern fencers) skill development programs. They provide a structured way to evaluate fencing skills, an encouragement to learn more about the sport, a roadmap for individual fencer development, and recognition for the fencer’s work to master the material.

#fencing #modern fencing #classical fencing

Why Parry?

The purpose of the parry is to score a touch. A fencing bout is a binary proposition - hit or be hit. Defense does not score touches. It allows you to hit with your own attack, the riposte, after the opponent’s blade is controlled.

This is an issue of tactical mindset. If your focus is to not get hit, you will eventually lose the bout. But if your focus is to successfully hit the opponent, touches will add up, and you will eventually win. Successfully means with right of way (foil and sabre) before, or after, the opponents attack, with priority in epee, or with a well executed counterattack. The parry is one of the conditions that you use to create the right of way or priority conditions that allow you to score. Ergo, its purpose is to score a touch.

#fencing #fencing technique #fencing tactics

What A Parry Does

When I ask students what a parry does, the usual answers are “it blocks the attack” and “it gives me the right of way.” These have a germ of truth in them, but they are oversimplifications. The parry does a wide range of things:

(1) in foil and sabre, when executed with the correct timing and recognizable technique, causes the referee to assess that a parry has occurred and to assign right of way to the immediate riposte. The parry itself is neutral - the first offensive action off the parry gains right of way. By convention this is the riposte unless it is held or delayed. (2) in epee, delays the attacker’s hit for sufficient time to allow the riposte to register either first or inside lock-out time resulting in an acceptable touch outcome (which may be a double hit in some tactical conditions). (3) at the moment gives the defender the certainty of where the opponent’s blade is, as well as control of that blade. (4) sets up the riposte, whether direct, indirect, or compound. (5) gives the opponent the option of controlling the blade in the riposte by bind, croise, envelopment, glide, opposition, or opposition cut (in sabre) for a one light solution. (6) forces the attacker back into the OODA loop. (7) transfers the initiative to the defender if the defender takes immediate action. (8) disrupts the attacker’s plan for the phrase and for the bout. (9) closes off one line and set of tactical choices for the attacker (certainly in the pool bout, less so in direct elimination). (10) may (or may not if the attacker does not realize what happened) cause a change in tactics by the attacker.

Each of these things the parry does can be exploited by the alert defender who recognizes that the parry does more than block the attack or bestow right of way.

#fencing #fencing technique #teaching fencing

A Compound Attack ...

... that gets no respect is the feint of straight thrust-straight thrust. After all, if the opponent does not react to your feint of straight thrust, you just finish it in the same line. It’s sort of a continuation thing.

Not really. It is time to think about this action as what it is - a compound attack. If you fence eyes open, compound attacks are a feint, followed by observation of the opponent’s reaction, followed by the actual attack. If I feint a straight thrust, my most logical second actions are:

(1) disengage if the opponent attempts a lateral parry,

(2) counterdisengage if the opponent attempts a change-parry, and

(3) straight thrust if the opponent does not react.

In each case I have executed a two tempo action, the feint followed by the actual attack based on the opponent’s reaction. And that is a compound attack. If you make a feint and then blindly continue in the same line without recognizing the opponent’s reaction, I am not sure why you made a feint in the first place.

And the same logic applies to the feint of disengage, followed by straight thrust when the opponent does not react.

#fencing techning #fencing

Drills and Invitations

One of the difficulties in teaching using drills at the level of beginning and intermediate fencers is that you have to teach the technique and the cue that elicits that technique. The students look at you and either ask “why are you asking me to do something that will get me hit” or think some version of “the old fool, I am not going to do that, I might get hit.” In the first case you get to explain and a light may go on. In the second the drill degenerates immediately into mindless poking.

What they need to know is that this is part of the first stage of teaching tactics. You are not teaching a cue; you are teaching an invitation. Now the students know how to get the opponent to do a specific thing ... and they can parry or counterattack or whatever and score. The opponent has been rendered the most wonderful of all things, predictable.

Now all you have to do is to keep them from doing the counter to whatever the cue elicits. After all, the purpose of the drill is for their opponent to succeed ...not to fight a bout. Given half a chance they will try.

#fencing #teaching fencing

Feet, Arms, and Hits

If you are trying to hit someone with a foil, epee or sabre, you want to hit them with your arm as extended as possible, and just as you complete that extension. Why? Well, all things being equal, several reasons, none of which have anything to do with right of way:

(1) If you hit them at full extension you are hitting them as far away as your arm will allow.

(2) Because the arm tends to be quicker than the leg, you are hitting them faster than if you rely on just the leg to get you there.

(3) And because you are faster and hit them at distance, you are hitting them earlier in the action.

If the arm is going to hit at full extension, how do you control distance ... with the feet. Not every action needs the longest possible lunge; some actions don’t need a lunge at all. Adjust your foot movement to get the point to the target. Oh, and remember a short lunge is faster than a long one - not in speed of movement, but in the time taken.

#fencing #fencing technique

Trending Blogs

Recently Viewed Blogs

Thoughts from Salle Green