RAMCOA OEA/programmed system, donât really use HC due to the coiner isâŚ..not goodâŚ.and how the community has come to associate it with a sort of âtrauma Olympicsâ
DNI the usual + kink blogs + think RAMCOA is a conspiracy theory
Iâm not gonna be picky about it because I know people are gonna break it anyways but itâs there at least
General trigger warning for this blog talking about OEA related things, I am not here to coddle you, and while we will try and generally trigger warn, we arenât good at consistencyâŚ.so consider this intro your general overall warning before interacting
Weâre still new to the community but have been on DID tumblr for a while, please feel free to correct our own misunderstandings when you see them, we are here to both educate and learn
Asks are welcome
Holidays are a struggle and we will probably be inactive on and off, patience is appreciated
I saw a post that disgruntled me enough to want to talk about this, so here we are. There seems to be a heavy amount of misinformation on what "counts" as OEA, often excluding adult victims and non-programmed victims. So, within this post, we'll go over what the terms "OA, MC, and RA" mean, as well as commonly construed myths.
Organized Abuse
all-encompassing.
Organized abuse is a wide term that includes experiences of ritual abuse and mind control but is in no way exclusive to them. Often, only organized child sexual abuse is mentioned, which leaves out a lot of experiences it includes.
The most simple definition of organized abuse is "Abuse that involves a number of people doing something together in a pre-planned and/or structured way, rather than acting alone." In short terms, abuse done by multiple people in a planned way. [1]
All groups under the RAMCOA/OEA label will fall under this category. This includes, but is not limited to, Cults, Trafficking Rings, Labor Camps, "Troubled Teen" Camps, Intra-Familial Organized Abuse, and other experiences that fall under this definition. This includes victims indoctrinated into cults, trafficked, or otherwise abused as adults, as well as children born or brought into it. Location of the abuse (at home, in a church, at school, at a daycare, etc) doesn't matter, and someone does not have to go through ritual abuse or mind control to have experienced organized abuse.
Ritual Abuse
not inherently satanic.
Ritual abuse is a term often confused with SRA, or "Satanic Ritual Abuse," an outdated and often harmful label for forms of organized extreme abuse. Not all forms of organized abuse are ritual abuse.
Ritual abuse can be defined as "Abuse that occurs in a context where symbols or activities have superstitious, supernatural, or religious connotations. It is organised, often involving multiple perpetrators, and the abuse often happens as part of a rite or ceremony." Alternatively, the word 'ritual' refers to "a rite, ceremony or pseudo- religious service which involves a series of actions performed in a fixed order and/or at certain times; something that is done in the same way whenever a particular situation occurs." [1] [2]
Because of this, ritual abuse can be defined while including spiritual themes and non spiritual themes. So, many definitions include other forms of abuse that is ritualized/specifically repeated in nature, such as on a specific day or time or in a specific order.
This type of abuse is most dominated in literature by satanic overtones, once again from the term SRA. However, this is not exclusive to satanic cults. Any group based on a belief system or using other reoccurring themes/abuse can perpetrate ritual abuse. Though ritual abuse is also more commonly linked with mind control and child abuse, programming and age have no impact on if an experience is ritual abuse or not.
Survivors of ritual abuse include things like ritualistic ceremonies, games, symbols, set-ups, abuse on specific days/holidays, abuse in a specific order, etc as common experiences.
Mind Control
programming and beyond
Mind control tends to be the term that receives the most problems, as many people tend to only think of programming when hearing it. However, MC is not exclusive to programming survivors, and many types of MC have been recognized.
A good definition of MC is "Methods of thought reform to force submission or information from enemies and victims, or to indoctrinate and increase cooperation in members and captors," and is a synonym to coersive persuasion, defined as "attempts to force people to change beliefs, ideas, attitudes or behaviors using psychological pressure, undue influence, threats, anxiety, and/or intimidation." [3] [4]
Programming is an example of the far end of mind control, a severe form of conditioning. However, things such as cult and religious indoctrination, psychic driving, terrified submission, etc, are all also forms of MC that can occur within organized abuse. MC is not exclusive to child victims, as most forms of MC can be performed at any age.
Thank you for reading. If you have any questions or additions, feel free to send an ask or reply to this post. A reminder that I am not a professional, I am flawed, and I am just doing my best.
I personally despise the "system with programming" and "programmed system" notion. It just reeks of trauma Olympics. I completely forget who started it, but whoever did, fuck you.
There should not EVER be a scale of programming. There should be no "oh I'm not programmed I just have programming." Please stop. You're making your trauma seem less than what it is. You're downplaying what happened to you. You're placing "programmed systems" on a higher pedestal just because they're more "complete" than you.
It's perfectly fine to say you have "incomplete programming" if that's what you believe you have, but to say "I only have programming and am not fully programmed" is opening the door for others to invalidate your experience. Stand firm on what happened to you. If you "have programming," you're programmed. You're not any less than compared to "more programmed" systems
Can you explain this further? Because I'm not sure I get where you're coming from.
Programmed is a neutral state. It's not like the issue with "complex" or "highly complex". It just means this system went through programming and the trauma that involves that. It's not saying they're any worse or better than other systems.
We are a programmed system. That's just a fact, it's not us trying to make a statement that we're sooooooooooo much more traumatized than other people, we know that's not true. But the fact we have programming is often relevant to the conversations that we participate in so yeah, we're going to bring it up. Because it's just a relevant fact about us. It's like trying to say that a system can't say they're polyfragmented because they're just trying to one-up systems with a simpler composition.
Totally! I think there was a bit of miscommunication here.
I'm also programmed and I do bring it up because it's relevant. I'm not saying that we shouldn't bring up the fact that we're programmed. I don't think it's us saying we're inherently more traumatized than systems that weren't programmed. My post is actually not about bringing up being a programmed system at all.
My point was actually about people who make a distinction between "programmed systems" and "systems with programming." I notice that in certain Discord servers and other places online, there are some people who seem to think that programmed systems are "more valid" than systems with incomplete programming (programming that suddenly stopped due to the subject escaping, the abusers dying, etc., or programming that doesn't seem to be "polished"). The term "incomplete programming" transformed into the term "system with programming." I see it being used to invalidate those who "aren't fully programmed" and are therefore less deserving of resources and help because they're "not as traumatized as real programmed systems."
Programming is programming. If one escaped at 9-years-old and someone else escaped at 32, both are still programmed. If one experienced a set of torture methods and the other didn't, both are still programmed. If one has "full-fledged" programming and another has "some" programming, both are still programmed. *That* is what my post is getting at.
With the last post (highly recommend reading if you have the spoons/stars) we will now be moving to OEA as a primary language for the experience of organized abuse.
The Giant "Is RAMCOA, now OEA, antisemitic?" Debunk
Here's the last version. This one is... wow.
So here's the thing, this has taken me way too long, so here's the format:
- A summary of my point.
- A ramble about my point written forever ago.
- All the possible talking points discussed or debunked
You can just scroll to the bottom until you see "DEBUNK" if you really want to.
I'm tired. No one has time for this bullshit. This post isn't formatted the best--that's what I get for doing this on mobile. Take it as it is, the links are all included.
The ISSTD (the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation) and the OEA (Organized and Extreme Abuse) sig (special interest group) are not rooted in antisemitism. The "facts" against the ISSTD are twisted and unclear, and they aren't meant to help Jewish people or survivors. They discredit the ISSTD and the trauma basis of CDDs (complex dissociative disorders).
The Satanic Temple (TST) and Grey Faction (GF) aren't just protesting medical malpractice.
They believe that the DID diagnosis is the malpractice.
They believe that CDDs are a fad created by and from the panic of the 80s, that it's PURELY iatrogenic in nature (caused by therapists, iatrogenic is a specific arm of the fantasy theory) and therefore any proof that DID exists and is rooted in trauma is seen as some kind of direct insult to them. As if DID being real means that Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) must be real, and SRA has always been, and always will be, an attack on TST.
They believe that SRA and Ritual Abuse (RA) are one in the same (good thing the ISSTD renamed it :) ), and that SRA cannot be separated from other conspiracy theories like MKUltra.
TST be like:
Alt text: a meme photo from The Office saying "They're the same picture".
The rumors and claims that you see talked about primarily come directly from a letter by The Satanic Temple and Grey Faction, written in 2019 to try to have the ISSTD's Continuing Education certification revoked. This is where the resurgence starts and what got lights on all this.
They (that is, TST and GF) seem to believe that this letter played a part in the name change, claiming that it scared the ISSTD.
For some reason, the CE certification thing seems to really stand out to GF and TST, and they can't quite keep their story straight about what the issue is-- whether CE Learning refused to accredit any courses on "mind control" (they didn't, the ISSTD created their own system for CEs and stopped hosting on CE Learning), or whether it's just because they're attacking a therapist who gave a mother -- that would go on to kill her son -- some resources, and decided that meant she should never practice ever again (because they're angry that the ISSTD implied that they're using the tragic case for their own gain, the drama between these two groups ffs).
The letter, the name change, the rise of QANON, and finally, the resignation of GF leadership, would result in what we're seeing today.
Grey Faction and the TST are the root of every over-exaggerated rumor you hear, and this post intends to prove that.
It's not so much about debunking every claim -- because yes, bad things happened to a lot of people during the panic -- so much as an attempt to arm you with more information about the topic or situation. That way, you can make your own decision about whether the claims hold up to scrutiny and support a narrative of antisemitism and conspiracy within the ISSTD, or whether TST and GF continue to push their own agenda and the same dozen lies from over 3 decades ago during a time of societal uncertainty.
Not everything you read is accurate and true, and this entire situation highlights the need for media literacy and investigation.
So let's go.
Summary:
So, all of these talking points can be DIRECTLY linked back to GF/False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF), and them alone, they're the origin.
You can't spout those points and say, "But don't trust Grey Faction."
Those are the things you can't trust about Grey Faction.
You can't say that they're right about, and the source of, all of these things, but wrong about implanted memories, because ALL of their content is a story that leads UP to the existence of false and implanted memories, in support of TST and discrediting their relationship to the panic.
There's no other conclusion.
They only care about putting the TST in a better light, even if that hurts survivors.
And we know they don't care about Jewish people, because the TST is openly antisemitic.
The below is a direct quote from Lucien Greaves, massive TW for antisemitism:
Like, I think itâs okay to hate Jews if you hate them because theyâre Jewish and they wear a stupid fuckinâ frisbie on their head [correct term: yarmulke or kippah] and walk around [and] think their Godâs chosen people, but itâs not okay to hate somebody [âborn of Jewish bloodâ] just because their parents were stupid fuckinâ Jews and wore stupid frisbies on their head and thought the Jews were Godâs chosen people [âŚ] Not everybody of Jewish blood is okay with me, it depends on if they follow the Jewish, uh⌠[âŚ] Satanic Jews are fine.
My ramble:
You don't get to pick and choose what to believe when it comes to Grey Faction. If their claims about the ISSTD being the instigators and maintainers of the satanic panic is true, then they must ALSO be correct about false memories.
They can't be a trustworthy source for some things and not for others, because these concepts are intertwined completely.
False memories and the idea that the ISSTD is filled with conspiracy theorists that still believe in SRA go hand in hand. Iatrogenesis, implanted memories, hypnosis, and coercion. They believe all memories recovered in therapy are false. The recently dissolved FMSF focused on all forms of abuse, getting involved in murder cases (testifying on the side of perpetrators to discredit witnesses and victims by proving that memory is unreliable), rape cases, and of course, incest cases (I tried to find a good link to put here, just google Elizabeth Loftus testifies). TST and GF are solely focused on DID and the ISSTD, but the idea is the same.
According to GF, memories of abuse, especially ANY form ritual abuse, are fake and implanted, and anyone who supports recovered memories are SRA conspiracy theorists, AND THE TST DOES NOT DO THE SRA. They are very, very adamant about this.
Do you see how this works now?
They are also the source of the claim that the ISSTD and RAMCOA are antisemitic, despite being antisemitic themselves.
No, seriously.
On the Psychological Projection of Antisemitism by Satanists
I highly suggest giving this a read if you want to know more.
I contend that GF and TST are antisemitic (see above) and trying to shift attention, and are keeping the panic alive on their own (see below)
I'm going to elaborate with a disjointed ramble
Grey Faction can't be trusted because everything they do and say has the ultimate end goal of proving therapists implant memories of abuse in their clients. See my last post about SRA and the memory wars.
Like, if Grey Faction is correct about all their assertions about the ISSTD and its members, then they must ALSO be correct about false memories, because those ideas are completely intertwined
Alt text: A gif from Ralph Breaks the Internet with Ralph saying, "One cannot exist without the other."
And yet, the same people telling you that RAMCOA, now OEA, is antisemitic will also tell you not to trust Grey Faction and that they're not a reliable source
Alt text: A screenshot from a reblog, stating, "reminder that the Grey Faction sucks." For context, Morlock has been posting that RAMCOA/OEA is antisemitic.
Which is it?
We know, for a fact, that "false memories", as presented by Grey Faction and the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, are not nearly as black and white as they would have you believe. This article is going to be a fantastic starting point to understand what exactly FMSF, TST, and GF are arguing about memories, and the ISSTD counterarguments. It's a very long read, but well worth it.
Recovered memory therapy is the hot topic here. Grey Faction would have you believe that the ISSTD still practices this therapy to this very day.
Alt text: A gif from Are You Afraid of the Dark. A teen throws powder into the fire, setting the scene for a spooky story.
They don't.
Grey Faction's proof FOR false memories is the ALLEGED and SUPPOSED behaviour and words of the ISSTD members under fire.
Despite the numerous allegations of TST and GF misquoting and twisting quotes. You'll see this later.
These are the same stories people are repeating now, in support of the relation between RAMCOA, now OEA, and the satanic panic, and therefore antisemitism.
Lucian Greaves was literally told at one point that medical malpractice can be fought without attempting to discredit DID and his response was basically, "How?"
Hopefully this link works (you'll need to be logged in to see), but if it doesn't, search Lucien Greaves' interactions with TheRingsSystem on Twitter for a truly enlightening experience on how this motherfucker interacts with the world.
DOES NO ONE ELSE SEE THE PROBLEM HERE?
The Debunk
Before we start, I want to look at the type of lies and twisting that we're going to see, give you an example of what to look for. I came across this article while I was making this post.
ISSTD Exposed: A Culture of Conspiracy, Grey Faction
This is more about the ISSTD's CE credits and the name change. This line in particular caught my eye, because for once it had a link.
Numerous threads mention âSatanic ritual abuse,â usually abbreviated as âSRA.â Michael Salter, on the Board of Directors of the ISSTD, in one comment refers to âSRAâ as an âinsider termâ that should be avoided when talking to âoutsiders.â
Oh, ominous.
Given the opportunity, I'm going to look and see what really happened.
Let me paraphrase. A very awkward, potentially troll student account asks about the origin of the term mind control. She then goes on to describe how she's terrified of using this language around outsiders, as it'll destroy her credibility with its supernatural and conspiratorial background and create barriers in the conversation.
Michael Salter responds that the term originated during the Cold War along with brainwashing and is very outdated, and no, it's not received well outside of RAMC Specialist Circles. He tells her organized abuse is the better term and goes on to explain that organized abuse is a general category for sexual abuse involving multiple perpetrators, that includes practices such as ritual abuse, child exploitation material and mind control. He says, "We see a spectrum of ritualistic or controlling behaviour in organised abuse - ritual and torture is sometimes present, but often not, and it occurs in many different ways and at different levels of severity."
I speak directly with police and policy makers about the kinds of torture that we see in organised abuse, including the intentional inducement of dissociation, but I would never use the term "mind control" with non-specialists. It's associated with movies and television more than "real life". At the same time, it's a useful shorthand amongst people who specialise in RAMC and we haven't found a good substitute for it. It would be good to develop a more contemporary vocabulary I think.
This comes back.
The thread then goes on to discuss other options for terms and "soft exposure" through media being the connecting language that allows clinicians to communicate with a general audience, and bad/inaccurate representation in media and online. Another clinician responds that she agrees with Salter, explaining that she doesn't want other providers or their clients to misequate media depictions to real life.
Michael responds to her about an ongoing research project looking into the perception of the term, talks about differences around the world in the view of the terms, and discusses pedophile and other "cult-like" organized crime groups. That's about as close as we get to any mention of conspiracy theories or satanism.
They talk about whether it's better to choose terms that confront the horror of the experience, or if they try to conceal that horror with a more generalized term.
Tara Tulley, who we talk about below, makes an appearance to say that most people who contact her about RA only know SRA, and it's an incredibly inaccurate depiction of organized abuse. Tara says that she's struggling to get people to separate RA from SRA, and to change the terms they're used to.
Michael finally says:
Thanks Tara - agree that we should use the terms that people are comfortable with and understand. It's just that "insider" terms like SRA and RAMC are translating poorly to "outsiders" like law enforcement, other mental health contexts. I guess we just have to be mindful of our audience.
Remember what the complaint was. Go back. Read the actual thread from the ISSTD yourself. And then reassess.
Nothing about the ISSTD thread was inappropriate or hinted at conspiracy theories. It was actually an incredibly productive conversation for everyone involved. It really painted the picture that everyone wanted to separate old SRA ideas from the reality of organized abuse, or RA, as it was most commonly known.
In fact, it explains the exact thought process behind the usage of the terms and how they actually apply in the world. Like how its handled with police.
Because yeah, police kind of suck at handling and believing these kinds of claims.
Mostly because the TST won't let it fucking die. They won't stop equating it.
So here we are, with
Michael Salter, the conspiracy theorist.
Let's look at some of these claims directly from the horse's mouth and see where they come from.
There's now a second post, too! Exciting!
I want to start with the ONLY point I agree with.
Ritual abuse and satanic ritual abuse are inherently linked terms.
Which is why it's now called OEA.
Keep this in mind. We're arguing about something the ISSTD already addressed and fixed. RA and SRA are too closely linked for comfort. So they renamed it.
Back to that horse, though. This horse is different from other horses because this one believes that the abuse itself is real. Most don't, which is always a red flag.
This saves me from having to prove that, at least.
Starting from the top of post 1:
Alison Miller? Quack conspiracy theorist loses her license.
ISSTD Therapist Loses License Following Grey Faction Complaint
Alison Miller has turned in her license as a result of a Grey Faction complaint
Alison Miller was retired at the time of their complaint. There's no license to hand over. She hadn't practiced in years. GF claims, very boldly, that they are the reason her license is suspended, and they are the ones continuing to push this ridiculous lie.
Source: Grey Faction
George Bergen's claims against Colin Ross (and others, because Ross is not named in several of the filings).
Links to an affidavit from 1997. Bergen a member of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation. In fact, HE CREATED AND RAN THE CANADIAN MANITOBA BRANCH. And he's kind of racist against native people. Fuck that guy.
Bergen is filing the affidavits on behalf of his wife's sister, who committed suicide in 1986. There's VERY little information on his wife and the suicide, but it's important to note that his wife left him before he filed and has never retracted. He even writes about her as, "my estranged wife who has not (yet) retracted."
Just something for thought. I think there's some shit we don't know about here. Anyways, the case was tossed out. We touch on this again in the second post debunk.
The second link is... oh. Wow. Grey Faction and The Satanic Temple themselves.
Doug Mesner is one of the many names of Lucien Greaves, the antisemitic asshat mentioned above. He runs The Satanic Temple. He's also the one who posted and hosts the affidavit package. He helped Bergen write it.
It's getting kind of funny that the openly antisemitic person is accusing other people and things of being antisemitic. It's almost like a racist is attempting to divide marginalized communities into hurting each other using soulless buzzwords. How weird.
Source: FMSF
Braun and his license.
The link is to psychsearch, owned by Ken Kramer. He's wild. It's always funny to me when he comes up.
So, Braun did lose his license after the case of Patricia Burgus (not to be confused with Bergen above), but it's important to note that Burgus already claimed to have 20 personalities when she met Braun. He didn't give her MPD or implant memories.
For this, you need to use your imagination a bit. Braun and Burgus met in 86. She was his patient for 6 years, as the panic started and blew up. At the time, the purpose of the ISSTD was to quickly develop urgent treatment guidelines, which didn't yet exist. These doctors were flying by the seat of their pants. Yes, mistakes were made, but the ISSTD has always acknowledged that. These were unprecedented events, and no one knew what to do. The ISSTD members of the time took the stance that their clients, often children, were telling the truth.
It's not implanting memories if you're asking your client to elaborate.
Please remember that we don't know what happened in all of these cases. It is, unfortunately, more likely that clients came up with these stories themselves, and were encouraged by the therapists asking for more information.
Braun was not convicted of any wrongdoing, it was a settlement case paid out by the hospital's insurance company. Braun wanted to go to trial to disclose the transcripts, where SHE makes the claims. She even said in an interview, âIt fit in with everything else [Braun] told me I was saying in therapy."
Braun would then go on to lose his license again for over prescribing medication in another case.
Source: Grey faction supporters twisting truth in a case that can't be disclosed due to confidentiality
Salter and the tunnels
Let's see what Salter says (PDF)
The findings of an archaeological dig at the McMartin preschool site, which uncovered recently backfilled tunnels and ritual articles in accordance with the childrenâs disclosures, came too late to counter the momentum of the backlash (Summit 1994a).
It's interesting that he cited something there. Hmmmm. I can't actually find the paper but I did find a FANTASTIC summary of it. Summit references an archeology report that was released in 1993 that found evidence of tunnels, which turned out to be something else unrelated. The revelation came to light in roughly 2002.
The paper by Salter was published in 2008, long before he became involved with the ISSTD. He was likely still in school when he wrote that short piece, and he doesn't typically include it on his CVs. I wonder why.
I also want to look at this.
It's really important because it talks about how believable the surveyor's report was and why so many fell for it.
Salter has never spoken of the tunnels again. We talk about Salter again in post 2.
Source: Grey Faction twisting truth for two decades
Tara Tulley?
What's linked is a consent agreement between Tulley and the board of licensing, hosted on the TST website. Much like Braun, this is a case of the board and licensee agreeing not to go to trial. Within the agreement, Tulley disputes the facts against her but understands that this is a quicker resolution for all parties.
The main issue actually seems to be her application for renewal not being filled out correctly, and Tulley explains that she didn't realize the investigation was active at that point.
But yeah, I'll admit, Tulley is a weird one. Very weird.
Source: Does Grey Faction have nothing better to do?
George Greaves?
I can't get this link to work. He was only ever a member of the ISSTD for a single year around 85 or 87. He was more involved in Ridgeview than the ISSTD. He lost his license in 94 and never really surfaced again. Why are we talking about him? Are we trying to say the ISSTD is terrible because of very short run-ins with shitty people?
Source: Grey Faction sure does like talking about him considering how long ago that was and how little he was involved.
Francois Saculla?
WAS NEVER INVOLVED IN THE ISSTD, YOU FOOLS. He attended the APA's MPD workshop in 79. Ohhhhh, scary. Get it right.
Source: the horse only
Eileen Avani?
In the linked consent order (again, like Braun), Avani doesn't admit fault, and the board actually accepts her explanation and proof that she wasn't actually offering services or treating the roommate.
It's frustrating, because this document doesn't actually talk about Avani not reporting trafficking or anything. I can't actually find any information on that. Where did the horse get those claims?
I'm genuinely asking, because even Grey Faction doesn't make that claim. I feel like people are just playing broken telephone with links.
Avani was assisting someone who had been trafficked in childhood. There was no duty to report, and she was passing the client along to and assisting another treatment provider.
And that's post 1.
I HIGHLY urge you to google each of the above names followed by ISSTD, and just take a glance at what comes up.
(Spoiler: it's ALWAYS Grey Faction, you'll be hard pressed to find anything that isn't directly GF, or citing them in their own article)
Jfc, okay, post 2, which is from the horse's friend.
This one is so much longer and annoying.
To start, again, the ISSTD came together to handle the surge in cases, seek support from other clinicians, and to develop treatment guidelines. The panic started BEFORE the ISSTD. The Chicago clinic opened to take the huge numbers of people claiming to have MPD, amid the growing satanic panic. The ISSTD didn't come into existence and then all these cases appeared. Patients from across the WORLD, already claiming to have MPD and memories of SRA, were being referred to the newly opened clinic, created to TAKE THIS SURGE IN PATIENTS.
The panic started in 1980, after Michelle Remembers was released, and the ISSTD formed in 84, not 83 as stated by the horse's bff.
But where did we get 83? From Richard Noll, star child of the FMSF. I talk more about him further down.
Spiegel, Kluft, Braun and Miller all responded to this article, calling it inaccurate, but because the article keeps getting posted and pulled, it's hard to find originals.
So did Frances, and we all hate him.
There are so many claims in this post that are uncited, and by the time you finish the articles, you forget what you were fact checking. I don't know where the claims about SRA in the DSM come from, because it's not in the article linked.
I mean, the link even goes so far as to speak positively of Braun and his changing mindset.
Many psychotherapists who have been vocal about a supposed epidemic of sexual abuse by well-organized satanic rings have grown more cautious of late. "There's clearly been a contagion, a contamination of what people say in therapy because of what they see on TV or read about satanic ritual abuse," said Dr. Bennet Braun, a psychiatrist who heads the Dissociative Disorders Unit at Rush-North Shore Medical Center in Chicago.
This would imply that Braun got better about all this over the years. If that's the case, why are we still saying he believes all that?
I'm starting to get the feeling that no one is reading their own links
But that's Braun, what about Colin Ross?
Ross was never found guilty or convicted of malpractice, as the horse's friend claims.
Ross has been named in several suits, but never convicted. Ross is the most vocal about what a confusing time this was, how hard it was to tell fact from fiction, and how hard it was to balance dis/belief with neutrality.
And of course, we link directly to Grey Faction about the eye beams. You might be surprised to learn that Ross has a sense of humor and entered a paranormal contest. It's really not that fucking deep, people.
More about Alison Miller, who says that Grey Faction is twisting the truth.
I don't know why they threw in Neil Brick without a single citation. Oh, wait, yes I do. Their only source is Grey Faction, and Brick talking about his experiences. Like fakeclaiming.
Michael Salter, this time they admit only Grey Faction is talking about it and there's no other sources. See above.
I'm not commenting a single Wikipedia link, and these people should be ashamed for including them.
Tara Tulley, see above, no she wasn't.
George Greaves, see above.
This is so repetitive, they all say the same fucking things, and it's all wrong and skewed the same way.
The way Grey Faction wants to present it.
The wording of the next paragraph is SO telling.
The ISSTD has annual conferences, each being either recorded or documented, several of these being notably controversial. In 1988 they aimed to verify cannibalistic satanic cults who participate in human, specifically child, sacrifices, this was investigated and then debunked by the FBI.
Almost like, they talked about something to get more information on it, and got that information.
How dare they.
From 1990 to 1998 ISSTD conference guest panelists had been accused of being Satanists if they portrayed any skepticism towards the connection between DID and SRA; this is documented in several instances. (No link, An Interview with Frank Putnam, Part II." ISSTD News)
Are you saying you couldn't find a link to support you? Or are you saying that you couldn't find an interview with Putnam II? There you go. I highly suggest actually reading this to see what he ACTUALLY says. This is the line that got me. "I was accused of disrespecting victims." I think these arguments are being framed way more negatively than they should be. I don't think this was about upholding SRA conspiracy theories, so much as balancing skepticism when faced with patients' claims. It ignores that Putnam HIMSELF was called a satanist.
Clearly not everyone within the ISSTD held the same beliefs, so I'm not sure what people are hoping to prove here.
The horse's friend then goes on to link to the TST, saying the only source of the claim is Grey Faction, and it's just the TST talking about a Grey Faction letter.
TST owns Grey Faction. Never forget that.
NONE OF THESE LINKS ON THE TST SITE WORK, I'M GETTING SO FRUSTRATED
We're linked to a letter by Evan Anderson, Grey Faction leadership that would resign in 2024 because of how much the TST was inserting themselves in Grey Faction and trying to control their actions. With Anderson gone, Greaves is now in charge.
Anderson said,
I ignored a lot for the sake of the campaign. I no longer can. I can recognize a witch hunt, a budding culture of paranoia and conspiracism.
Hmmmm, interesting timing.
Already we should be calling bullshit, just because of how stupidly hard it is to find ANYONE other than Grey Faction talking about it.
The horse's friend then goes on to incorrectly state that the FMSF started because of the ISSTD, which is wrong. The future members of the FMSF were pushing false memories in the 70s. Read this post. (This is where you can find more information on Noll's associations with and support of TST.) Their claims exist outside of SRA. They want to discredit ALL survivors.
Then they finally go on to say that they tried not to use only Grey Faction as their source, but did they achieve that?
FUCK NO.
Every single reason cited for why RAMCOA, now OEA, is antisemitic, and for conspiracies existing within the ISSTD comes directly from Grey Faction, and happened DECADES AGO.
But don't trust Grey Faction.
WHICH IS IT, THEY CAN'T BOTH BE TRUE
Do you have any idea how many members are part of the RAMCOA/OEA sig? And we keep talking about the same 6 or so people, and theories and thoughts from over 40 years ago that those people DON'T ACTUALLY STILL BELIEVE. I think this post by TST might put the TST's and GF's goal best.
According to The Satanic Templeâs spokesperson, Lucien Greaves, âWe are very happy that the board moved to revoke the license of Tara Tulley, but Tara Tulley is only one member of the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation, an organization largely comprised of mental health professionals who subscribe to bizarre and harmful conspiracy theories that some of them impose onto their clients, burdening the mentally vulnerable with crippling, fearful delusions, and propagating destructive QAnon-like paranoia. It is our position that the mental health profession should do more to rid itself of this embarrassment and ensure that those licensed in the field adhere to empirically-supported clinical practices. It is our position that the ISSTD should lose all professional standing, and they should not be allowed to administer Continuing Education Units to professionals who attend their conspiracist lectures.â
The OEA sig is one of 12 that the ISSTD runs. In 2022, there were only 29 members of the OEA sig, and it by no means includes all of the members of the ISSTD that work outside of OEA. Other sigs include acute care, child and adolescent, creative art therapies, eating disorders, neurodevelopmental disabilities, EDMR, and vicarious trauma.
None of that matters, though. The TST and GF want to see the ENTIRE ISSTD burned to the ground.
The timing of this surge in RAMCOA talk coincides with the TST/Grey Faction rift, as Greaves and his chronic online-ness took over.
And what is Greaves? A racist, a man whose sole goal is to silence survivors, and an ISSTD hater.
Knowing a good deal more about the situations above, go back to that original letter and reread the complaints.
I know we havenât posted in a while as we havenât had the energy but holy crap this is exactly the kind of thing we were planning to take a dive into and Iâm so glad SAS did so, saving us spoons. Please read this, and believe survivors who are so often discredited and overlooked
Franz Kafka, Letters to Milena // Alain de Botton, Essays in Love // Eden Robinson, "Writing Prompts for the Broken-Hearted" // Chloe Liese, Always Only You // Anne Carson and Euripides, An Oresteia // TwoâSleeping At Last // Studio Bones, SK8 the Infinity // Trista Mateer, "is it okay to say this?" // @moodylilac // D. H. Lawrence, "The Rainbow"
if you are a cult survivor or a victim of ritual abuse, mind control, or organized abuse, please know that we see you. we believe you. your pain is real and your trauma is real, even if it is masked with programs, pseudomemories, or dissociative barriers. you deserve a future filled with rest, joy, and recovery. you deserve a community that believes, supports, and cherishes you.
itâs okay if you want to be open and candid about your trauma and experiences. itâs okay if you donât want anyone to know about them. you are allowed to reclaim agency over your own history. we hope that you can do this in ways that are uplifting and empowering for you.
we feel for you. we care about you. we believe you and we believe in you. your experiences will never be questioned or trivialized here. you are allowed to exist as you are. your strength and resilience does not go unnoticed.
Ya know when people told me "when you're finally safe enough that you can leave survival mode and start to let go of and process your c-ptsd/trauma things are probably going to get really, really bad before they slowly start to get better" I thought that was reasonable. I did not understand that by "things are going to get bad" they meant "you're going to find yourself in the worst mental state of your entire life, but dw, that means it's working" and tbh I simply wish someone had been more clear.
Pretty disappointed to see a fairly popular and well known blog on tumblr is encouraging the idea that RAMCOA doesnât exist. Just came across this post and was pretty bummed to see the comments too.
For those that agree with them (most of my followers wonât but who knows who will stumble across this), please know that RAMCOA has been going on for much longer than the Satanic Panic. The Satanic Panic was fabricated in an effort to discredit RAMCOA survivors. It was supported by the False Memory Foundation, which was created by a man (and his wife) trying to prove his daughterâs repressed memories of trauma involving him did not really happen. [Explained further in the third article further down in this post]
For the record, false memory/planting false memories has been disproven, itâs not possible to fully plant false memories in patients. Some memories can be altered to an extent because memories can be disjointed and influence from others can cause memories to shift slightly, which is why itâs not encouraged for trauma patients to share exact detailed memories with each other. For example, if two trauma patients were abused by their father and had a similar situation happen and patient A spoke about their experience in detail, if both fathers wore glasses and patient A describes their father to have black rimmed glasses, patient Bâs memory might shift to believe that their father also had black rimmed glasses, even though his glasses were gold rimmed. However, itâs not possible to fully plant memories that do not exist in a patientâs memory. The âbase memoryâ so to speak has to be there in order for any alterations to occur, and those alterations that are possible are often rather minuscule, such as glasses or whether or not their abuser had facial hair or not, or the color of the personâs eyes. Not an entire scene of RA. [Again, explained well by the third article below.]
Repressed memory has been proven to exist. (Though itâs more accurately called dissociated memories by clinicians) It can even exist in people who have traumas that happen in adulthood. Pieces of a traumatic event may go missing in a patientâs working memory, and they may not retrieve it until they are ready to process the memory and all the emotions and information that comes with it. However, it still exists stored in the brain, just in a different area than working memory. Itâs why triggers to the traumatic event (that the patient may not even realize are triggers until they occur) can cause flashbacks and memory resurfacing during said flashbacks.
Some sources explaining the False Memory Foundation and the harm theyâve caused: [a good overview of a woman who was major in the development of the idea of repressed memory being a myth, by a researcher of child psychiatry], [while this is a psychology today article, I think this explains well how misused the idea of FMS - false memory syndrome - is.] [A comprehensive article explaining the roots of the FMF and how the studies used to âproveâ false memory are terrible and easily debunked, with several assertions from professionals in the field.] I want to add that while the FMF has dissolved and rightfully so, the British False Memory Society is still alive and well, as well as the Satanic Templeâs Grey Faction, and both groups still cite False Memory Syndrome as being real and claim that RAMCOA survivors have false memories of their abuse.
However, before Satanic Panic happened, people were starting to actually believe in the existence of RAMCOA and the concept of DID was brought into the mainstream. A survivor on tiktok has a very good video on this situation. And that scared people, especially the abusers themselves who didnât want to get caught. Thatâs when the False Memory Foundation stepped in on the heels of Satanic Panic and literally rewrote the textbooks therapists learned from, and basically taught everyone that repressed memory doesnât exist. Any therapists that spoke about their patientsâ experiences with RAMCOA were sued. Therapists stopped wanting to treat RAMCOA patients for fear of being sued and/or losing their license or being told they planted these memories in their patientsâ heads and possibly losing their licenses. It led to generations of old therapists not treating RAMCOA patients and generations of new therapists learning it doesnât exist.
But it does exist. To outright deny that child torture cannot exist is absurd. 1-2% of reported child abuse falls under the definition of child torture. [source, TW: photos of children with serious injuries from torture included on page 7 of this document] For the record, my abuse was never and has never been reported, and most survivorsâRAMCOA and non-RAMCOA, whose trauma falls under the definition of tortureânever reported or plan to report.
Even if you find the mind control aspect to be far-fetched, ritual abuse most certainly does exist. Iâve seen videos on the surface web on fucking tiktok of all places of child torture and ritual abuse. Organized abuse such as sex trafficking and labor trafficking does exist. Two out of those three things in the acronym are well documented to exist. And for the record, ritual abuse and cult abuse even in adults can cause extreme mind and identity alteration, upwards to the point of nearly being mind control. Look up OSDD-2 in the DSM-V. Look up just about any cult survivors testimonies and hear how they talk about how they nearly became a different person within their cult, how the cult uses torture and mind altering drugs to get their initiates to commit terrible acts of violence to each other. Now imagine if that same stuff were happening to a child whose mind is significantly easier to mold and change. Even if the child RAMCOA survivor does not develop DID, it can cause extreme conditioned responses in which the child (or now grown adult or teen) will still do the responses even now because as a child they were threatened with torture or death if they didnât do it.
Mind control is essentially an extreme form of conditioning, and with the plethoras of research on DID and how it functions, itâs not even a difficult concept to grasp that a cult member might learn how to split new alters in a child via torture and then manipulate those alters to do what they want individually. Anyone who knows fuck all about DID knows that alters can be triggered out via positive and negative triggers. All mind control programming is, is creating a specific trigger for a specific alter and then when that child is exposed to that trigger, that alter comes out and does the task it was taught to doâusually via torture, manipulation, and threats of harm to the child or those the child loves. Itâs not a difficult concept to grasp, and with how long TBMC (torture based mind control) programmers have had to perfect their work, itâs no surprise that theyâve learned how to make alters do extremely complex tasks or hold onto specific functions, always at the ready for their specific trigger.
RAMCOA research doesnât exist in mainstream spaces because itâs nearly impossible to be taken seriously because of people who claim it doesnât exist when itâs not even a complex topic to understand. They just donât want to accept that it exists. The concept is terrifying, harrowing, and at some times almost absurdâand that combination makes it easier for people to put their blinders up and decide it doesnât exist. [Edited to add: On top of this, what little research is done on it is steeped in conspiracy theories that often have roots in antisemitism. While Iâve asserted that Millerâs deprogramming books are good reads for RAMCOA survivors, she does often sound conspiratorial, and quotes Svali, a known antisemite. While I donât think RAMCOA is exclusively related to the Illuminati stuff she often talks about, Millerâs work cannot be completely discounted because of her beliefs of where the abuse originated. Where it originates matters much less than the fact that it happens. However, not from dark, underground, secret societiesâbut from normal places like churches, childrenâs own homes (yes, RAMCOA can be done by a single parent to a single child, it just may look different than say, a trafficking ring), trafficking rings, militaristic groups, political cults, etc. I wanted to put the above put there because I know someone is going to come at me and try to say the researchers who talk about it were conspiracy theorists. Yeah, they were. Maybe they were the only ones willing to talk openly about it because of the fact theyâre conspiracy theorists? I donât know. However, I think it should also be noted that just because the researchers sucked doesnât mean the information taken from them isnât useful when you weed out the conspiracy stuff. For example, a LOT of modern understanding of medicine was taken from Nazi and Japanese experiments during WWII. Arguably some of the worst doctors on earth. Do we discount everything we learned because they were horrible, evil, people? No. While those who studied RAMCOA went about it in shit ways, that doesnât discount the information learned completely. Likewise, much of modern psych understanding came from roots that included incredibly unethical experiments that would never be allowed today. Do we throw out all of that info too? No, we donât. Iâm not saying that we shouldnât hold these people accountable, Iâm saying we cannot throw out all discussion of RAMCOA because the doctors who talked about it were shitty people.]
I wish I could decide it doesnât exist. I have permanent scarring that proves what happened did happen. I have doctorâs visits that prove I am disabled because of the traumas I went through. I have a DID specialist who didnât even know programming to our extent even existed before our parts started telling her what they went through and she heard it from our own mouth. She had to learn how to deprogram us on the fly because sheâd never done so before. So fuck off with your âoh, RAMCOA patients only have RAMCOA because theyâve been influenced by their therapist to believe they doâ bullshit.
I relive my traumas in flashbacks and nightmares daily. There have been periods in my healing process where I couldnât leave the house without someone with me for months. I couldnât hold a job for nearly a year. I didnât know any of this happened to me until I was in my 20s. I thought my memory was just bad and the only parts of my childhood I remembered were little blips of good things, usually involving my parent that was not involved with the cult or memories with friends at school or when I was hanging out with my sports teammates. Living with this stuff is hell. You think I want to live with this stuff? If I could permanently erase it all from my memory forever I would. But I canât. I donât have that luxury.
It happened. And Iâm not the only child it happened to, both in the area of my country I live in and in areas all over my country and the world. This is not an isolated phenomenon. It is more common than anyone tends to realize (though still rarer than most DID cases, thank fuck). I was lucky to survive. I survived because they wanted me to. I saw a lot of children, teens, and adults who were not as âluckyâ as I was. If you wonât respect survivors and their stories, at least respect the ones who didnât survive. They didnât deserve their final moments to be so full of pain. All of the children in these groups deserved to be loved and cared for and treated with softness and compassion. So do adult survivors like me and many others.
If I could end on one thing, it would be to urge the doubters to have some fucking compassion and empathy for people who have been through things they cannot even begin to understand. My past feels like a nightmare I will never be able to escape. I cannot erase it. I can only try to heal from it. So heal I will do, and in the process I will continue to speak the truth of my experience as safely as I can.
You want proof itâs real? Survivors are your proof.
WE are the proof.
[Edit: changed some wording for clarification + added a section after rereading a couple hours later]
[Edit 2: I realized I said my abuse has never been reported, I meant my RAMCOA related abuse. Want to make that clear. I reported sexual abuse done by my church to CPS and nothing came of it. CPS actually wrongfully claimed that since they had no reports existing of that church harming kids they wouldnât pursue it since it happened so long ago, when a cursory google search of said location shows theyâve been reported multiple times and all reports were dropped. Why, Iâm not sure.]
I'm hoping no one here still sees Legion (legion.sys on TikTok) as a legitimate source of information, but just in case you do, you should probably know that they have recently:
Gone 100% down the radfem/TERF pipeline
Made fun of the male suicide rate and complained about Men's Mental Health Month (their excuse is that they don't want it to be during Pride Month, but considering they openly call themselves a "proud misandrist", I don't think it matters to them whether or not Men's Mental Health Month is in June)
Derailed conversations about the genocide in Gaza in order to rant and make bizarre accusations about Israel running a "multinational trafficking ring" in the United States and United Kingdom, decentering actual victims of genocide in order to talk about RAMCOA instead and imply that there are people in the US and UK who are "directly affected" by the genocide instead of, you know, the actual Palestinians being murdered; said that the genocide itself is RAMCOA
Said that surrogacy and adoption are both forms of human trafficking, referred to adoptive parents as "PIEs" or "parent-identified exploiters"
Posted islamophobic and anti-religious content; saying that "islam supports pedophilia" and that "all abrahamic religions" are misogynistic and that you cannot be feminist and religious simultaneously, and
Spread egregious misinformation about ME/CFS, its symptoms and its diagnostic criteria that is easily disproved with basic Google searches; specifically coming up with non-existent "levels" of ME/CFS and stating that ME/CFS results in the growth of white matter in the brain when it's actually associated with the opposite
