UN Palestine Ambassador: ‘The world lost its humanity in Gaza’ | MEE LIVE
0:00did you do during this genocide? Not what you said or what you considered
0:06doing, but what did you actually do? History will remember us all for the
0:14lives we failed to save. What? This was part of a speech delivered to the United Nations on Wednesday by the
0:21Palestinian ambassador to the UN, Dr. Riyad Mansour. He says that Israel is attempting to transform Gaza into a land
0:27without a people through the ethnic cleansing of more than two million Palestinians and that it's happening
0:32because the world refuses to act. So what can the international community do?
0:37Dr. Riyad Mansour, thank you so much for joining us. Me.
0:43You made this challenge to the international community yesterday at the UN asking states to consider what action
0:48they have taken to stop the loss of life in Gaza. What can the international community do to stop the ongoing
0:54starvation that he we have been watching day in and day out? Uh they can do
1:03one of the things that they can they can stop sending
1:08ammunition Palestinian children at our people in Gaza.
1:14They can stop ships from coming to their ports carrying weapons
1:22Palestinians. They can Are we okay
1:30because I hear myself in Yes. Sorry. Sorry. Your your voice is cutting out a little bit but but
1:35continue. I think we still have you. Okay. Thank you. They uh also uh can uh load food and
1:47water and ships that are raising the flags of these different countries and
1:53their air force can protect these boats and they can barge on our borders in
1:59Gaza, from the sea, from the skies, from uh land in order to break this uh
2:07blockade against our people and enforce the will of the international community
2:12which is calling that we will not allow this genocide to continue. We will not
2:18allow to see the starvation of Palestinian children and 2 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. There
2:24are many things that they can do. They can recognize the state of Palestine. They can sever diplomatic relations with
2:31the state of Israel. uh it is up to these countries to use any of these
2:38options available to them in their sovereign right to act. They cannot only
2:44tell me that I vote in favor of resolutions in the general assembly or
2:49sometimes in the security council and I am done. There is more that need to be
2:55done and I just gave few examples and we praise those who are taking these steps.
3:02They are the brave ones and we need to see a larger wave of others to follow
3:07them in order to force Israel to stop this genocide against the Palestinian people particularly in the Gaza Strip
3:15and to break this uh uh food starvation against our people. And I believe and I
3:22trust that the international community can succeed in breaking this inhumane,
3:28illegal, barbaric uh form of using denial of food to our people uh so that
3:35either to starve them to death or to kill them by bullets and to force them to be expelled from our national
3:43homeland Palestine. You have said that Israel was committing genocide and ethnic cleansing and that that was only
3:49possible because of an impunity that they enjoy. Many of Israel's closest allies are now using language of war
3:55crimes and threatening sanctions against Israel in ways we've never seen before. Uh and in ways they have in language
4:01that is stronger than what we have seen over the last 21 months. Do you think this imu impunity that Israel has is
4:08cracking? I believe it is cracking and that's how
4:15we the Palestinian people feel. This is how many organizations and uh uh
4:22countries also feel. Amnesty International uh you know released a
4:28report to that effect and also upper tide and also the ICJ is considering
4:33that issue for those who want to be technically uh absolutely legal to see a
4:39determination by the highest court in the globe and uh of course the court is
4:44taking its time to uh deliberate on that the merits of that case but all these
4:50things are happening and the court issued orders three times telling Isra
4:58denying Palestinian in the Gaza Strip of food and to open the borders to allow
5:04them to have food and to stop to have a ceasefire in order to uh stop the
5:10plausibility of uh genocide on the Gaza Strip using the language of the court.
5:17So therefore you know there are many indications that there uh there there is
5:22a growing number of countries and organizations and courts who are saying that there is a serious possibility of
5:29genocide that is taking place in the occupied Palestinian territory especially in the Gaza Strip but we are
5:37the people who are living this genocide and we are saying that we are going through genocide help us. Israel's
5:44government has repeatedly accused the United Nations of not being an impartial body and that its Palestinian focused
5:49aid agency UNROA was complicit in terror attacks against Israeli citizens. They've used this to justify sidelining
5:56international aid groups and instead set up their own uh Gaza humanitarian foundation with the help of the US. Is
6:02the Israeli government right in their claims? No, they're not right. They are wrong.
6:08First of all, you know that uh the mandate of Honora and all these humanitarian agencies are stemming from
6:15decisions of countries in the general assembly. In fact, the mandate of UNROWA
6:21started with a resolution drafted by the United States in 1949, resolution 194
6:29and it was adopted and reiterated the adop the adoption of that resolution all
6:35the way until the Oslo agreement and no one voted against that mandate for
6:41Honora including Isra. They used to abstain. So therefore you know this is
6:46the will of the international community and the countries the United Nations and
6:52the agencies of the United Nations are implementing the will of the United Nations. So therefore Israing the UN
7:00they're attacking the secretary general they're attacking Mr. Fletcher they're attacking Mr.
7:06They're attacking Honora. They're attacking, you know, now OCHA and they're attacking every agency that is
7:13saying uh the right thing of defending the legal rights and human rights of the
7:19Palestinian people and defending international law. They are totally isolated and they are not going to win
7:27this battle. I think the international community will win that battle and the United Nations with them as well. You
7:35mentioned earlier uh the recognition of a Palestinian state. Now France, the UK and Canada had considered taking this
7:42step to recognize a Palestinian state although they have yet to actually commit to this move. You have called a
7:47conference originally planned for June to address this issue of statehood a turning point. But when looking at what
7:53is happening in the West Bank, yesterday the Israeli Knesset voted overwhelmingly to approve the annexation of the West
8:00Bank. Will recognizing a Palestinian state change the realities on the ground or will it merely be symbolic?
8:08It is a significant step in the right direction. We have 149 uh countries that
8:14have recognized the state of Palestine. uh the more uh to follow those 149
8:22especially countries like uh France uh UK, Canada, Australia, Japan just only
8:29to name a few to take that step at this appropriate moment. It is an answer
8:36against the illegal uh uh law adopted by the Knesset which is
8:45illegal from the point of view of the ICJ. uh which said that annexation is
8:50illegal and said that settlements are illegal and Israel therefore should be
8:55stopped from the continuation of all all these illegal breaches of international law and declared that this occupation is
9:04illegal and it has to be terminated as quickly as possible. The general assembly legislated a resolution to take
9:11steps in that direction including convening this international law international conference which was
9:18supposed to be held on the 17th of June. It was held for a few minutes suspended.
9:24It will be resumed on the 28th of this month Monday. And that resolution that
9:30the conference is uh concentrating on actions for countries to take in their
9:36national capacity in order to shorten the life of this illegal occupation and
9:42to terminate it and to uh to allow the Palestinian people to exercise their
9:49inalienable rights including the right to self-determination statethood and the right of the refugees to return and
9:55therefore to actualize the global consens es on the two-state solution to become a reality. We hope that countries
10:02will step up to the plate and take more practical steps in that direction. I
10:08participated and led the Palestinian delegation in the very important meeting in Bogotaa, Colombia in which a number
10:16of countries said they are committed to take practical steps of not allowing
10:21Israel to take weapons from them, not to have ammunitions from their countries and not to allow ships to carrying
10:29weapons to Israel to kill the Palestinians to pass through their ports. These are very important
10:37practical steps of a group of countries. We hope others to follow them, including
10:43the recognition and many more steps that countries can take in order to force
10:48Israel to stop all these denial of the rights of the Palestinian people, especially our right to
10:55self-determination and to impose a system of discrimination against us, uh,
11:01a system of appetite against the Palestinian people and therefore, you know, to succeed in upholding
11:08international and the will of the international community, the resolutions of the United
11:13Nations, and to allow the Palestinian people to live in freedom and dignity in their homeland. The most important thing
11:20that we need now immediately is ceasefire, stopping the killing against our people, to save lives, not to kill
11:28Palestinians either through bullets or through starvation. We've seen the situation as you mentioned in the West
11:34Bank continue to deteriorate uh and under farright Israeli ministers such as
11:40finance minister Betel Smotzich uh enormous number of uh amount of money
11:46has been transferred from the Israeli government into these settlements there. Some of these figures have have made no
11:52secret that their aim is to continue towards the annexation uh and also
11:57towards the sidelining completely of the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian leadership. Uh you mentioned that hey
12:04group meeting that took place in Colombia last week um and that the of course yourself and Palestinian
12:10leadership also took part. Um, but apart from appealing to the international community as you have at the UN, have
12:17you continuously repeated to do, what cards are there left for Palestinian
12:22leadership to play in order to try and stop what is happening not only in Gaz
12:28and the West Bank as well? Well, uh uh among the other things that
12:34we are doing, there was a declaration today saying that the entire Palestinian
12:40people everywhere, including in the West Bank and the occupied West Bank and East
12:46Jerusalem and Palestinians everywhere are ready and willing to carry food on their shoulders and to walk back to the
12:53Gaza Strip to help our brothers and sisters. I remember I was one time
12:58before going with the president to visit Lebanon that we had a discussion and the
13:03president issued a declaration to all leaders in all corners of the globe. Use
13:10your ships. Our borders are open. We invite you to cross our borders from the
13:16sea, from the sky, from the land in order to break this blockade against our
13:22people in Gaza and to stop the starvation and to provide them what they
13:27need. We repeat this call to all leaders of the globe. I had the honor of passing
13:34a letter from the president to the secretary general of the United Nations
13:39to that effect and we are approaching all leaders in order to help us in
13:45accomplishing that objective. We need to stop this carnage against our people in Gaza. We need an immediate ceasefire. We
13:52need humanitarian assistance to reach all corners of the Gaza Strip and we
13:58need to fight against the crime against humanity of kicking our people from our
14:04homeland. We have no homeland except Palestine and Gaza is a precious part of
14:10that homeland and our people want to stay in Gaza and to rebuild it. Now, the
14:16United States has not only armed Israel's military assault on Gaza, but has also attempted to block international courts as well as the UN
14:23from holding Israeli leaders accountable. What is your message to US President Donald Trump?
14:29I thought President Trump, he ran his campaign on America first. Why Why is he
14:35acting now that Israel is first?
14:42So, this is your message to to him? many western countries, many European
14:47countries and to the American people, those who voted for him behind the slogan that
14:53America first the way that he is acting and they are acting that Israel is
14:59first. So they have to figure it out to tell the American people exactly what
15:06their position is. You are in the UN assembly floor speaking to delegates from um other
15:13countries. many western countries that have criticized Israel but have not taken any real material steps in in uh
15:22in attempting to change their relationship with the Israeli government. Of course, the US is first but apart from the US, the UK, France,
15:28Germany, uh many other countries that have said uh increasingly critical things against Israel. When you are
15:35speaking to these delegates, what are they telling you about why they're not taking more action?
15:40Actually when I speak to them their feelings and their position is much stronger than the official position they
15:48articulate because the human interaction with them and the way uh we present the
15:56tragedy of our people and the viciousness of the Israeli occupation
16:02uh do in fact touch them and affect them and if it is up to the to some of them
16:09they would take even bolder steps than the official positions of their governments. But we are patient. We keep
16:16working with them. We see the shift. We appreciate the position of the 27
16:21European countries and the UK, 28 of them uh including countries like Canada,
16:28Australia and others uh who have given Israel warnings that if they do not stop
16:35this uh uh crime uh of starving the Palestinian
16:41people to death that they will take measures, punitive measures against Israel. And I hope that they uh uh
16:50resort to practical steps in order uh for Isra
16:58threats, but they mean business and that they contribute in a significant way to putting an end to this war of starvation
17:06against our people, this war crime, this genocide against our people by using war
17:12as weapon of war. uh I mean food as weapon of war which is you know a
17:18criminal act. It is it is you know uh
17:24an act of genocide against the Palestinian people and I believe uh it
17:29will take place. Last year four European countries took that significant step of recognizing us. I'm referring to Spain,
17:37Ireland, Norway and Slovenia. I believe others will follow them and will follow
17:42them soon and I wish that they have done that a few months ago or a year ago. But
17:49nevertheless, I think that they are so close to taking that step and to take
17:54other steps to not to send weapons to Israel is extremely important to uh be
18:01taken uh seriously by the European countries because they do send weapons.
18:07They have they buy weapons from Israel. They send ammunition to Israel and to
18:12take steps by threatening that they will not send these weapons to kill Palestinian children, especially in the
18:18Gaza Strip. We take it seriously and we hope that they follow through in order
18:23to stop this Israeli criminal government from continuing these illegal uh
18:29breaches of international law and the crimes against humanity against the pe the Palestinian people as along with war
18:37crimes and genocide against our people. We are hopeful. We are patient and we
18:43continue to work with all these countries and other countries including the Arab countries, the Muslim
18:49countries, the African countries, the Latino uh countries. I believe we are
18:54now making the turn. The international conference that will take place in few
19:00days will be a conference of a actionoriented conference. We will see
19:07how many countries will declare taking practical steps in order to pressure
19:13Israel to stop the war, to stop, you know, denying our people of food, to
19:19stop, you know, the force displacement and to force this illegal occupation to
19:25begin the process of being dismantled and to allow the Palestinian people to
19:30acquire and to achieve independence, freedom, and dignity in independ
19:36dependent state of Palestine with East Jerusalem as its capital. Dr. Mansour, finally, I want to ask you
19:42about a moment that took place in the UN just weeks ago when you were speaking about the conditions and the realities
19:48in Gaza and you were overcome with emotion. What does it mean to be
19:54Palestinian in this moment?
19:59Well, I have two mixed feelings. One is that we are living a collective
20:06uh tragedy. We are living Nakba in the process of continuing which our parents
20:14and our grandparents started in 1948 before 1948 through 1948 and this Nakba
20:22is continuing in its most vicious form especially in the Gaza Strip. I think of
20:30the children because uh since World War II there hasn't been this large number
20:36of the most vulnerable in societies, the innocents, the angels, the children to
20:42be killed at this level of tens of thousands of them. Every time I speak in
20:48the security council also while we are living this continuous Nakba, we are
20:55also living this massive horror of losing so many of our children. And then
21:02when I think of those children, you know, it just like I get overwhelmed
21:07with the pictures of why such innocent angels are being deprived of their life
21:14before they even start the beginning of this life. And I think of my grandchildren because I have uh young
21:22grandchildren, three years old, six years old. And I think of what would how
21:27would I live and how would I feel if harm to happen to them on the hands of
21:34other individuals. I would say to myself that most likely I will end up in an ins
21:41insane institution. So when all these feelings go through me while I'm
21:46describing the horror and the pain of our people which I try to convey it in
21:52the most effective way to the hearts and minds of humanity in all corners of the
21:57globe. I do it in the way that I do it and I think that uh sometimes I cannot
22:05control myself and emotions and I display it in that uh very you know uh
22:14special and touching humanitarian way which I believe it is reaching the
22:20hearts and minds of hundreds of millions of people in all corners of the globe
22:25and we I appreciate the support and the uh solidarity displayed in that moment.
22:33I have to convey the pain of our people in the best most effective way and there
22:40is no better way than speaking from the heart when you talk about these
22:46sensitive issues. Dr. Riyad Mansuru, we thank you very much for your time today.
22:52Thank you for having me. Now, could Donald Trump, the US
22:58president, be held accountable for aiding and abetting genocide in Ghaza? And has the ICC gone far enough in
23:04prosecuting Israeli leaders for their genocide that is we're that we're watching every single day? Well, I spoke
23:10to a man often dubbed as the godfather of human rights, Kenneth Roth. Roth was
23:16instrumental in shaping Human Rights Watch, an organization he headed for almost 30 years before stepping down in
23:222022 to write his memoir on the fight for human rights. writing wrongs. I
23:27asked him about Gaza, Trump's attacks on the ICC, and how the story of his father who survived the Holocaust informs his
23:34commitment to human rights today. Kenneth Roth, thank you so much for
23:40joining us. Welcome to ME live. My pleasure to be with you. I want to begin with the immediiacy of
23:46what is happening on the ground in Gaza, the starvation.
23:54Kenneth Roth, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to ME Live. My pleasure to be with you.
24:01I want to begin with the immediiacy of what is happening on the ground in Gaza, the starvation, the ongoing killing of
24:08people queuing for aid day in and day out. When you look at what is happening today and the international response to
24:15it, what do you see? Well, first I think we have to look at, you know, what is Israel trying to do here? I mean, this is clear genocide.
24:22You know, this is, you know, foremost creating conditions of misery on the
24:27ground that are so unsuitable to life that, you know, the aim of the far right
24:33government under Netanyahu is to drive out the Palestinians, you know, to kill enough of them, to create sufficient
24:39starvation, to create sufficient suffering for those who are surviving, you know, to even kill people who are
24:45vining up for food ultimately with the aim of, you know, persuading Egypt to
24:50take them in. And this is, you know, a callous strategy. It's genocide for the
24:57purpose of ethnic cleansing. And, you know, we have to just be candid about what's going on here. The international
25:04response has been, you know, broad outrage even
25:10from a country like Germany, which, you know, historically has been very differential to Israel. But, you know,
25:15Chancellor Merittz was saying, you know, this is appalling what's happening. The big problem remains Trump, you know, and
25:21and I think Netanyahu has resolved that even if the rest of the world is against
25:27him, so long as Trump is with him, so long as Trump continues to supply the military aid and the arms to commit this
25:34genocide, Netanyahu will continue. So you know that's really the issue and
25:41that's you know the backdrop for these attacks on international justice because
25:47you know what is happening is so blatantly criminal. This is one important response from the
25:53international community which is to prosecute the offenders but you know Netanyahu and Trump are trying to shut
25:59the door on that. Now, you know, Trump as a legal matter is guilty of aiding and abetting genocide as well as massive
26:05war crimes and crimes against humanity. You know, he could be prosecuted for that. Um, you know, do I think that the
26:11International Criminal Court is about to do that? No. But but there is this theoretical liability, you know, similar
26:17to what happened to the former Liberian president Charles Taylor, who supplied arms to this awful rebel group, the
26:24Revolutionary United Front in Sierra Leone and is serving a 20-year prison sentence in the British and Brit prison,
26:30you know, because of that aiding and abetting of war crimes. So, there is international precedent for this. Obviously, you know, Trump is a much
26:36more powerful figure than Charles Taylor, but there is a, you know, blatant criminality here, which I think is part of why Trump is so eager to go
26:44after the international criminal court. Although ironically when he threatens the court, when he imposes sanctions,
26:51when he basically tries to, you know, inappropriately twist its arm for just doing its job, he is committing the
26:58crime of obstructing justice, which under article 70 of the Rome Statute, the international criminal court's
27:04leading treaty, um that itself is a crime. He could be charged for that. So, he's on thin ice. I think he's counting
27:10on just being a policy figure and the court wouldn't dare to go after him. But you never know. Um and what he is doing,
27:17you know, this effort to undermine this independent institution of justice that is just trying to stop the bloodshed in
27:23in Gaza and hold the perpetrators responsible. It's outrageous what Trump is doing and we have to, you know,
27:29recognize that and and continue to push him to stop, but also recognize that he
27:35could actually be criminally liable. Now, speaking of the International Criminal Court, last week we broke a story about threats that were made to
27:42the ICC prosecutor Karim Khan from one of his own colleagues, British Israeli ICC lawyer Nicholas Koffman, who told
27:48Khan that if he didn't drop the arrest warrants against Israel's leaders, and if he attempted to go further and pursue
27:54more charges against more Israeli leaders, then he and the court would be destroyed. What do you make of these
28:00kinds of threats against one of the most high-profile legal figures in the world?
28:05Well, first to put this in perspective, this is not the first time that the Israeli government has delivered threats
28:11to Kareem Khan or to his predecessor, Fati Ben Suda, the prior ICC chief prosecutor. Um, in those cases, Mossad
28:20was actively monitoring communications and Fatu Ben Suda herself received very
28:27direct threats by MSAD officials. So, you know, this is a pattern at this
28:33stage. And the fact that Netanyahu would try to deliver a message through a British Israeli lawyer is a continuation
28:42of that effort to manipulate and obstruct justice. I mean, this should be
28:47another count on the charge sheet. Um, the court has been gone going slowly. I mean, the court has charged Netanyahu
28:54and Galant, the former Israeli defense minister, with their starvation and deprivation strategy. These are war
29:00crimes. But you know, the court has not yet even charged any Israeli official
29:05for the indiscriminate bombardment in Gaza, for the attacks that cause enormously disproportionate harm to
29:11civilians, for the repeated killing of of civilians who, you know, just show up and try to get food because they're
29:17starving. None of that has been charged yet. So the court is really, you know, behind on what should be one of its
29:25foremost priorities to bring justice to a situation that is absolutely abysmal.
29:30And now we have to add to that list that it has not yet charged anybody for these blatant attempts to obstruct justice.
29:37And the case that it had against the uh Israeli leadership uh really primarily
29:42focused on this idea of using starvation as a weapon of war. And uh yet despite
29:47the issue the arrest warrants being uh issued, it hasn't seemed to uh change
29:53much in the way that Israel has conducted itself in in Gaza, many people
29:58will look to these international bodies as their as as the only kind of line of
30:04defense against these sorts of crimes. Certainly uh the line of defense to
30:09prevent genocide from happening in the 21st century. Why do you think these institutions have failed so far to stem
30:17uh the the war crimes that we're seeing before our very eyes? Well, I think we have to recognize that, you know, international courts don't
30:24have police forces. They don't have militaries. They depend on governments to enforce their orders. So, the courts
30:31have been doing the right thing for the most part. The governments have not been following through. So with the
30:37international court of justice the genocide case that South Africa brought against Israel the court has issued you
30:43know a number of provisional rulings basically trying to prevent genocide. Israel has ignored them and there have
30:48been you know some consequences from Europe but not the critical consequences needed from the United States. So the
30:54slaughter continues the same with the international criminal court. I'm disappointed that the starvation charges
31:01that have already been issued against Netanyahu and Galant have not diminished the starvation strategy. This has been
31:08central to European strate to to Israel's strategy ever since. But you know there again when you know the
31:14response from Trump is rather to say, "Oh, this is horrible. Don't commit this crime." But rather, you know, I'm going
31:20to attack the court for having the audacity to describe what you've done and appropriately charge it criminally.
31:26You know, in those circumstances when the major largest benefactor by far is
31:32saying, "Don't worry about this. We're going to try to kill the court," Netanyahu doesn't worry about it. So, I
31:37wouldn't blame the court. I would blame the governments that failed to uphold the actions of the court, legitimate as
31:44they are, and the lead government that is failing in that respect is the US government under Trump. We saw this week
31:50Belgian authorities uh arresting two Israeli soldiers on accusations that they were complicit or could have been
31:56complicit in war crimes in Gaza. And this was prompted by independent human rights organizers uh including the Hind
32:01Rajup Foundation. What do you make of these kinds of efforts to go after individuals um on European turfs away
32:09from from you know the ICC and the ICJ? Oh, I I think that these efforts to use
32:15what's known as universal jurisdiction in national courts are very important. Um because you know first of the
32:21international criminal the international court of justice is not a criminal court. It's a civil court. It's to resolve disputes between governments.
32:27And so you know that will decide whether Israel is committing genocide. Nobody will be prosecuted there because it's
32:33not a a criminal court. It's the International Criminal Court that handles prosecutions.
32:38But as we've discussed, it's proceeding very slowly. it's issued charges only against two people for one kind of crime
32:44and nothing else. So the ICC needs to be supplemented and one way to do that is
32:50for national prosecutors using jur universal jurisdiction to go after offenders themselves. Now you know I'm
32:56happy if a low-level person is is pursued but that's not the heart of the matter. You know low-level people are
33:02not committing these crimes on their own. These are orders from above. And I'd be much happier if we saw something
33:08like what France has done with respect to Bashar al-Assad, the deposed president, Syrian president, where
33:14they've charged him because he was the one who was orchestrating the mass atrocities in Syria. Why are not
33:20European courts using universal jurisdiction going after Netanyahu or
33:25Israel Katz, the the the current defense minister or other senior generals who are the ones who are ordering these
33:32atrocities? You know, yes, go after the low-level soldier, but that does not begin to be
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