Stranger Things Theorycraft

It is a curse to see so clearly

[sttheorycraft]

Index Post (pinned) - 2021-09-22

UPDATED LINKS:

Read these first, I'll add more later but holy - these are by far the most important.

Emerald City - How Stranger Things is actually taking place in someone's mind, where they're in some kind of a feverish/hallucinatory state, reliving different stages of their life in distorted ways. And how Hawkins Lab ("Emerald City") represents psychiatric help.

Drink the Water - How Hopper is the character whose mind this is taking place in.

I'll be fleshing these out much more as I get time.

About this Blog The purpose of this blog is to serve as an outlet for my observations/theorizing about Stranger Things. Turns out, most people I meet irl don't enjoy picking apart clues about a TV show for hours on hours. Some of them might even think I have a problem. But thanks to the Internet, now we people with highly specialized interests can connect and actually feed off each other's energy for even more self-destructive psychological impact!! Score. This blog is exploratory, but in general I'm also going to try not to get attached to any particular theory to the point of delusion and to keep things grounded enough that they're plausible to happen (except in a few cases where I'll acknowledge it as such). While I'll be aiming in the end to arrive at coherent theories, I'll also be exploring contradictory ones at the same time until I can rule out competing hypotheses. So don't come here for a pure, consistent narrative, but do come here for interesting potential clues, for partial arguments that are as strong as I can make them in the moment, and for hopefully development over time. Also, I try to make my posts original insights, but I keep accidentally plagiarizing @kaypeace21 and it's getting embarrassing. Very early on I read her posts and they were what first got me seeing deeper elements of the show, but it's been a while now since I have, and even engaging with the show directly I sometimes either forget she mentioned something or never noticed it on first read. Point is, I'm standing on the shoulders of a giant, and it's hard to blaze new ground when things are already a freaking hellscape when you arrive. I still think even if we cover the same material it will be from different angles, but if you like my stuff you should absolutely read her blog exhaustively (and then please tell me where I have the same ideas so I can edit any overlapping posts to credit her there too).

"But @sttheorycraft, why is this post labeled as an index post? You aren't linking any articles in it yet?" Look, Mr./Mrs./Dr. Invisible Critic, @sttheorycraft is a lazy SOB and is only writing any blog entry as an emotional release, remember that. This post is a placeholder because at this point I'm overdue for writing an index post and maybe by writing this placeholder (which is now so long that I'll probably just link it from the actual index post when I get around to it) I'll actually get around to doing the links. It's not getting any easier, the more posts I make... But hey, this is a labor of love, so my output is going to vary and not be to deadlines.

My asks are always open, keep them good faith and I'll always try to respond. Bon appetit.

[netflix]

What advice would you give to young or beginning writers?

Read everything. Read the stuff you like and read the stuff you don't think you'll like. Read the things that people think it's good for you to read and read the things they seem worried about you reading. Read prose and poetry and fiction and non-fiction. Get off your phone and read books without interruption. Read the classics and read the cutting edge. Read everything you can get your hands on.

– @neil-gaiman

[sttheorycraft]

I got a few sentences in and thought, "this sounds like Neil Gaiman," looked up and saw it was Netflix!? Then kept reading and got to the satisfying conclusion. He definitely has a distinctive voice

[8flix]

The Byler Script Drama Continues at 8FLiX

So, t looks like the go8FLiX Twitter account was hacked last night (over a damn script???).

I'm working with the lightning-fast reflexes of Twitter "support" to do something about it.

Kind of a low-blow, really. So, I'm doubling down on my ultimatum. I'll release the name of my source publicly and the two cast members that inadvertently confirmed the source's identity (and screencaps to prove it).

Looking forward to hearing from you #Netflix.

[sttheorycraft]

Must suck to go through, but entertaining at a distance :p

[sttheorycraft]

someone pointed that the ghostbuster will was dressing up in season 2 is the one who dies… i’m kinda worried:(

I really don't think they're killing off Will, and probably not even anyone major since they want a happy ending and everyone is related/friends. They've said this isn't Game of Thrones

[sttheorycraft]

Crazy theory time so some people speculated Vecna needs a Kas(i guess he’s a monster from DND)and this Kas could be Eddie coming back from death as Kas but what if Will actually become Kas? Sorry for my bad english it’s not my first language!

Your English is pretty much perfect, don't worry. I don't subscribe too much to this theory though. I think we might see another "Demo-something" or two but that's probably it in terms of new villains.

I guess the one thing that interests me when it comes to the villains is: who is in control, Vecna or the Mind Flayer? And if it's Vecna, how?

[sttheorycraft]

Opinion on gay vecna?

Nah

[sttheorycraft]

I agree with you that Byler is probably not happening at this point, but I would love to hear your 10% reasons why it still might. I don't think you should be afraid of giving out false hope because 100k people in the Byler tag are already doing that anyway lol. It's okay if you don't want to share, though. I'm just curious to hear what you think.

I'm not sure that logic holds (about false hope) but hey, why not.

I've already said that S4 proved (through Hopper's survival) that the writers will ignore inconsistencies if it lets them tell the story they want to tell. This makes it really hard to theorize about what could come next, but also means everything is still on the table. If Byler is a story they want to tell, they'll tell it.

Their forgetting Will's birthday suggests they're not paying attention to small details, which calls into question a LOT of Byler "evidence." But there's still a little hope if we step back and look at some probable facts about the production. They seem quite pro-LGBT both from their social media activity and from scenes from the show. For example, Mike standing up for Will in S1, and how well they handled Robin's coming out scene. They have voiced a concern for protecting the little guy (I'm thinking of Harbour's acceptance speech) and one of the show's major themes is about "normal" being overrated and "different" being okay (and "different" is strongly tied to homosexuality in the show).

All of that is to say: I don't think they would want to queerbait fans on purpose. They knew Byler shippers existed at least by S3, if not S2 which is I think when it started (I wasn't around then). They were interacting with us on Twitter while writing S4. After a certain point, if you're not planning on Byler endgame you kinda have a responsibility to your fans to signal this unambiguously in the show, as early as possible. You could argue that Byler shippers are so creative in reading into things that it would be impossible for them to accept a non-Byler endgame until the end, if even then. But the writers definitely didn't shut the door firmly in S3, and while I can see signs I could interpret as shutting the door in S4 (most notably the speech), it really should've been done less ambiguously if that was the intent. Even people on Reddit were getting wind of an old-school queerbait in Vol 1.

Just some questions in S4 that could be nothing but why are they even questions if they're trying not to queerbait:

Why is there a one-way sign in Mike's room pointing to an open closet in S4E1? If that was accidental it was a huge oversight

When Mike meets El in the airport, he picked his clothes because she liked those colors. I get Mike is supposed to be awkward but Mike's views on their relationship sound incredibly juvenile. Compare to Lumax throughout the season, or El's complaint to Mike about never saying "Love." Or even Mike and Will's conversations, it's not like Mike can't have mature conversations

Why does Mike act so weird when greeting Will at the airport? Could be to emphasize Will's emotions, but it's still odd

Why does Mike get weird with El after the roller skate incident? Serves the plot but seems out of character and is unnecessary Mileven tension

The El/Superhero thing. Mike really does refer to El primarily as a superheroine throughout the season. Including to Dustin when Dustin is bragging on his girlfriend. He's never really that romantic

It's clear why Will's eyes get shimmery during Mike's apology but why do Mike's? It seems a little over the top if nothing is going on there

Why is Will so practically psychic with Mike? And a little bit in reverse but Mike is oblivious sometimes too. Selectively, it feels like

When Mike confesses his "feelings" to El, it's spurred on directly by Will (it's almost peer pressure) and it comes out juvenile/awkward again. Could be Mike's personality, but again he's demonstrated he can do better. (I do need to rewatch this, have only watched Vol 2 once through)

Robin and Vickie (not sure if I've stated publicly but I see Vickie as bi from a million miles away) getting together at the end could be foreshadowing apparently hopeless relationships coming to be??

Other things that I can't forget:

Will's favorite song is "Should I Stay or Should I Go" which is about a push-pull relationship, much like Will is experiencing with Mike

The whole "keep the door open 3 inches" meme from S3

Unfortunately, all the above doesn't add up to anything ironclad. I think it's important to test your beliefs. I came up with a couple of checks before S4 came out, basically how could I tell if they were trying to shoot down Byler:

Attempts to define the relationship with Byler. Mike does twice: as best friends.

Strengthening Mileven. Mike arguably does in his speech.

These are both surface-level and handled poorly, but unfortunately since both came true I'm left with 90% likely that they're trying in good faith to avoid queerbaiting but just not handling it very well (underestimating Byler shippers' ability to rationalize basically). Or a 10% chance that they're still up to something based on the above.

Hope this helps and doesn't give anyone TOO much hope. I really want to emphasize: it's not queerbaiting if your fans are so adept at reading into things that anything you do is construed as evidence for their ship. But at the same time if Mileven endgame was the plan they really should've shut things down harder than they did.

[sttheorycraft]

Would you be satisfied with Will dying at the end of season 5? Like him sacrificing himself for everyone after he accepted that being gay is fine?

Not really. That's nice and all but a) I doubt he'd be in a situation where that sacrifice would accomplish much, b) it calls into question that he'd actually accepted that being gay is fine, c) although I think it's less of a tired trope than others, it's still a trope, and d) it would hurt a lot of people aside from Will too.

But I really doubt they'd do that. They're more likely to have Eleven do it, and I doubt that'll happen either (although I'm a bit unsure how they're planning to handle her godlike powers in the epilogue). I'm expecting a happy ending.

[sttheorycraft]

Sorry but El never said that she didn’t wanna be definied a superhero,actually she looks happier with her powers and i don’t get why you think being called a “superhero” is a toxic thing? It’s her main important feature and if Mike sees her as his superhero there’s nothing bad about actually is very cute! El likes saving her friends

I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should actually read my posts?

[sttheorycraft]

Shout out to the haters, keep your Asks coming. I enjoy wasting your time

[sttheorycraft]

what is that obsession with mike ending his life if will dies

...?

[sttheorycraft]

Apparently the Duffers said that they won’t be focused on love stories in 5 because they “fixed” all the ships in season 4. What can I say? Disappointed but not surprised,the Byler route was too impossible for me after that Mileven Monologue

Do you have a source for that? Not that I doubt you excessively, it sounds like them.

I don't see requited Byler as likely, but as I've said many times before, it's really impossible to make predictions when they sacrifice consistency when it's convenient for the story they want to tell. So it's really a question of "is Byler a story they want to tell?" And that's hard to say given how push-pull they've been about it (poor Will). I used to think so, if only to avoid queerbaiting, but now I'm not sure they even know how to do that tbh. Will's theme song was "Should I Stay or Should I Go" which implies push-pull could have been the plan, but that was years ago and, like Will's birthday, they probably don't remember that anymore.

I still give it a 10% chance, because in addition to the writing being unpredictable, I can construct weak arguments for Byler in spite of what happened in S4. But they're quite weak and I refrain from talking about it publicly because I think it's not happening and I don't want to give false hope.

[sttheorycraft]

I'm calling bullshit on this actually, whether the Duffers actually said it or not. Because I can accept that clueless heteronormative types might think that Byler was "fixed" by the band-aid being ripped off scene, but I can't accept someone thinking that AND Nancy's love triangle issues were "fixed" in S4. "Friends don't lie" my ass.

Edit: AND Robin/Vickie's situation is clearly not 100% resolved

[sttheorycraft]

Apparently the Duffers said that they won’t be focused on love stories in 5 because they “fixed” all the ships in season 4. What can I say? Disappointed but not surprised,the Byler route was too impossible for me after that Mileven Monologue

Do you have a source for that? Not that I doubt you excessively, it sounds like them.

I don't see requited Byler as likely, but as I've said many times before, it's really impossible to make predictions when they sacrifice consistency when it's convenient for the story they want to tell. So it's really a question of "is Byler a story they want to tell?" And that's hard to say given how push-pull they've been about it (poor Will). I used to think so, if only to avoid queerbaiting, but now I'm not sure they even know how to do that tbh. Will's theme song was "Should I Stay or Should I Go" which implies push-pull could have been the plan, but that was years ago and, like Will's birthday, they probably don't remember that anymore.

I still give it a 10% chance, because in addition to the writing being unpredictable, I can construct weak arguments for Byler in spite of what happened in S4. But they're quite weak and I refrain from talking about it publicly because I think it's not happening and I don't want to give false hope.

[sttheorycraft]

What do you think there’s in the Hawkins Library of the UD? Some people said that there may be hidden the final monster (in season 5) what’s your opinion on that?

I don't think so, mainly because it hasn't been addressed since season 1, so probably (considering how they treated Will's birthday) the writers have forgotten about it. It seemed like a Demogorgon nest or something back then, but I don't think it was anything to do with Vecna. I disagree with the rumors floating around that Vecna was the one who came after Will in S1.

As for the Season 5 monster, it's pretty obviously at least going to be Vecna. I guess the question is how Vecna relates to the other Upside Down monsters. Maybe the MF is controlling him? If not, it's unclear to me how, e.g., he knew what the Demobats were seeing. But considering Hopper survived the S3 explosion by lying on the floor, despite the S3E1 casualties on the ground level, I don't think logical consistency is a requirement for the show anymore. Which makes it really annoyingly hard to theorize.

[sttheorycraft]

i don’t like Will now that he’s buff😟he was better in season 3. now he looks like a grown ass man in gym🥊🏋🏻

It seems out of character for him, but whatever. They dressed him pretty modestly in S4 so it's easy to overlook. I guess the alternative is forcing the actor to stay out of shape for his role which seems overbearing.

[sttheorycraft]

My ask response policy: Not addressing purely toxic asks, and now not answering creepy/weird ones. All others welcome

[sttheorycraft]

So you don’t believe in Byler anymore?

I don't believe mutual Byler is in the cards (it's not impossible, but I'd give it <=10%), if that's what you mean.