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I was rewatching the 07 TMNT movie again and I noticed a weird quirk the script has: Age Roles(I am saying roles here as we're never given exact ages, and thus there is an argument that they just assigned the roles of bigger and littler brother) and how they are assigned to them in this iteration.

These age roles are only mentioned twice, both in the movies and prequel comics, and both times are done by the two turtles who do have a minor power struggle with each other, and neither time is it self referential.

They're both said in the context of belittlement and never in reference to or imply that Donnie even has a role or dynamic age role wise in the first place.

These roles are seemingly never stated in reference to oneself, but always given instead by the others.

"Right, and while you've been playing games, little brother this Nightwatcher character's come into the neighborhood like some kind of vigilante showboat." [Said by Leo to Mikey]

"Oh, you know something, big brother? I'd have to disagree with you on that one." [Said by Raph to Leo]

This is saying something.

Of course what that is depends on your interpretation. To me it seemingly implies that while both Raph and Leo are a lot more concerned with a perceived hierarchy compared to Mikey and Donnie.

But if you do run with that implication then you'll also have to acknowledge this puts Donnie out of this age role based hierarchy.

Which is interesting seeing as it was Donatello who was given the leadership role when Leo was away. Or implied to more accurately. It's never stated anywhere that Donnie was given such a role, with the only implication being that he has it when Leo tells April Donnie has it under control when she was trying to get Leo to come back with the argument being that his brothers where lost without him. Thus you can make the assumption he has the leader role, but it's never stated in canon.

A lot of 07's canon is implications, such as them having a Honeycutt due to them knowing the Triceratons which implies a space arc, but there's very little actual canon.

So I am working with what we got and making presumptions based on that.

Either way the implications here are that either Donnie is not really thought of in terms of age, or he's twining with Raph thus has an equal amount of social power so Raph can't use it to spite him and Donnie seemingly doesn't fight Leo, or not directly. Him following Raph and Mikey instead of just observing with Leo like they're suppose to be doing could be seen as indirect fighting.

Of course 07 Donnie overall has a coat of apathy towards the world, something we see accidently jaded down by Splinter's punishing of him and Mikey when they stopped crime in the prequel comics. So Donnie avoiding all age roles through sheer indifference, and his brothers not giving him that role seeing that it does nothing, would not be out of character.

This also got me thinking about age roles in wider TMNT canon as well.

Such as how in 2012 I remember how big brother is a role that bends and nearly breaks Leo while Mikey is constantly called little brother but I can't remember any time age roles were used in reference to either Dee or Raph.

Of course I do not know 2012 as well as 07 or 03 so feel free to counter this statement.

Meanwhile in full contest 03 has No References to age At All, not even in the Japanese dub. This continues to reinforce how the 03 family tend to take things as a group and help each other out(another reason why Leo's descent into his season 4 behavior is concerning and not the norm for his character) rather than having any power dynamics or parentification within their group. This of course goes along with 03's focus on outer group threats rather than inner group ones.

so. I finished the the novel. I am now moving to the comics. But i wanted share this with y'all.

I love this quote. And him. very, very, VERY much.

#tmnt #tmnt 2007 #07 raph #07 Raphael #rapheal hamato #hamato raphael #hes so bbg