I’m about to log off for Shabbat (I’m only a couple of hours late this week...), but I’m frustrated and need to get this off my chest.
A podcast that I like, but don’t listen to regularly, did an episode on Jewish identity. Since the episode came out, Jewish people have been sending feedback via twitter and apparently by email. It’s been very frustrating to watch, because one of the two main hosts has come across as dismissive and unwilling to actually interact with Jewish people who have been saying they were disappointed in the episode or who say white-skinned/white Jews are always just white is not the same as saying that other “white ethnic groups” (e.g. Irish or Italian) are now white.
Against my better judgment, I tweeted out a thread to him both saying I agree with him about white privilege but that the conversation doesn’t just end there.
I agree with what you’ve said in this thread, especially with respect to white privilege. What I’d add thought is that the difference between other forms of oppression that deal with people who have white privilege (which white/white-skinned Jews definitely have) is that antisemitism has always been and continues to be central to white supremacy. It can’t be extricated from white supremacy.
To white supremacists, we will never be white. At best we’re using our fake (to them) whiteness to destroy white culture from within. See “white genocide.” Ironically, our whiteness is used against us to prove that we’re out to destroy white people.
Also, although antisemitism is often racially-based, it operates differently than other racially-based prejudices. Unlike “typical” racism where certain races are seen as lesser & subhuman, antisemitism is centered on Jews being inhuman & really controlling everything (ZOG conspiracy theories) & singularly to blame for everything (eg capitalism, communism, multiculturalism, liberalism etc).
Antisemitism isn't structural or institutional in the same way anti Blackness is, but it is systemic societally and culturally. I grew up playing the which gentile friend would hide me game and knowing without really understanding that I had to have a go-bag because there would be a time that I would have to flee. My parents’ friends, who remember a time before the Holocaust, have similar childhood memories. Their parents fled from pogroms. That’s what being Jewish is: knowing that you’re really just a guest in your country until the next inevitable expulsion or pre-expulsion fleeing.
Do all Jews feel like this? Probably not, but because of intergenerational trauma we (all Jews, regardless of our race or part of the diaspora we're from) have all of this perpetual refugee cultural baggage. Our history is being expelled, settling, and then being expelled again.
For me, the question of whether white Jews are really white isn’t the imp question here. Not because white privilege or PoC don't really exist (something being a social construct doesn’t make it less real), but because it ends up being a red herring in deconstructing white supremacy.
Like you said in the episode, race is a social construct; I’d add that race is determined by who’s doing the racializing and less by the individuals being racialized. In this case it doesn’t matter how you identify, it matters how you’re identified. Be it by PoC or white supremacists...
Resounding silence was the response.
I mean, he’s not obligated to respond to everyone who tweets at him. I can sympathize that getting a lot of people sending you what seems to be white fragility sob stories on steroids gets old really fast. But if you’re going to do a podcast on race and identity where your about us states you’re “a team of journalists fascinated by the overlapping themes of race, ethnicity and culture, how they play out in our lives and communities, and how all of this is shifting” and do an episode on antisemitism and Jewish identity, it shouldn’t surprise you when Jewish people respond with criticism.
And to just respond with James Baldwin’s essay “Negroes Are Anti-Semitic Because They're Anti-White” without noticing that he never says Jews are white end of story but rather that: 1. that (Western) Christianity, assimilation therein, and Christian-based colonialism and missions are the cause of antisemitism in the African American community, 2. the reason he gives for American Jews to not be ashamed of our oppression is that it didn’t occur in the US and we don’t have to live with that history shoved in our faces every day like African Americans do, and 3. that African American antisemitism (according to Baldwin) is that African Americas are “condemning the Jew for having become an American white man--for having become, in effect, a Christian.” I.e. for both assimilating into Western Christianity and having more of an ability to do so.
The problem is that in doing so (assimilating) we must cease to be Jewish and, for lack of a better word, code switch permanently to the point where we lose our identity completely. I see how my white gentile friends act when I’m “too Jewish,” talk about antisemitism, or talk about experiencing antisemitism. It’s not with open arms; it’s with concern and insinuations that I just should keep my big Jew mouth shut. How is that being the same “kind” of white as Irish or Italian? Is that the same as institutional and systemic anti-Black racism in America? Is that saying that white/white-skinned Jews don’t have white privilege? No. But no one worth listening to is arguing that it is.
I just re-upped my thread and tweeted at the producer (who hosted the show and is a Black Jewish woman) with a link to the most recent Eric Ward interview. I’m just frustrated.
Edited to add my tags: And I’m saying this as a white Jewish woman who routinely gets into arguments with other Jews over whether we who are white-skinned are really white. Because the answer is never yes or no, but rather “it depends on who’s asking and what we’re defining whiteness as.”