Thanks for the message! I’m keeping my head somewhat afloat. One instance of good news from the past week is that I finally have a supervisor (though having one now means I have a supervisor to let down; currently striving to avoid that); maybe that counts as major good news, on second thought. I have a lot of work to do yet, of course, which is partly the reason I continue to falter on the fandom front, but I’m hoping I’ll be doing more than okay on both the academic and fandom fronts as the year progresses.
I know I have unanswered asks that people may or may not still be waiting on answers for; I’m sorry how slow-going those are. I’ve been struggling to use my free time lately toward fandom productivity or...productivity (unless you count the recent critiques of two stranger’s stories, but I call that improper hyperfixation); I hope this will change, too.
Thanks again for the kind message (all of them, really), and thank you for your patience with me and Narita while we’re at it. I really appreciate it!
amara77 replied to your post “Guts is different from Griffith. Guts fights the beast in him every...”
This! �������� perfect! I hate the glossing over the whole plot here that Miura set up...for “ fuck Griffith “
ty! and yeah same, it just flattens the story and makes it less interesting to view Griffith as evil or sociopathic from the start. like, why would you want a less complex story?
Me too. Right, that one (April Fool 2007) and the Dengeki Jack story both still need to be translated. I might have a friend or two who’d be willing to translate, if I remember to ask... Maybe I’ll bring it up on the weekend. (You know, I never posted about receiving either merchandise package in /r/Baccano--I suppose I could also do that...)
Hey there! So I just got back from vacation. I do still want to go back and skim through a couple novels regarding a couple things, but I was looking for some of your thoughts on Claire's abilities. Is it LN canon that his eyes glow, or is that just anime? (See I need to go back) Relationships Claire/Gandors/Firo, Claire/Chane, Claire/Raechel (which I totally head canon he still meets up with her and asks for advice. I was also thinking about if the DS ending had happened between them.)
Below is the initial/preceding Question, sent by Amara in a previous Ask (technically two) still sitting in my Inbox:
amara77 said: Loved the Luck analysis like LOVED! Sooooo ayyyyy I’m requesting one for the number 1 problem child Claire XD I have a few questions to go with that but there is a section I need to re-read. The “rambling” was actually great you pointed out a few things, that I hadn’t really stood out until I read that. Nailed it! (Also I do read tags )
Oh oh and I love that you love Keith so much. <3
And thanks for giving me some specifics to work with! I just wasn’t sure where to start/what to talk about; I’ve written about Claire before (in a Claire-Elmer comparison I wrote in February of last year ), so I think part of me was worried I’d potentially end up repeating myself…
Draft Update: My original plan was to respond both to the fact-checking questions and the relationship questions in one post (this post), but my response just kept getting longer and longer…
…So I’ve decided to split my responses into two posts. Sorry for taking so long to respond to these; I started writing this in February, I think (?) and had written quite a bit before stalling on the final 15%.
Below the cut: Relationships Section (My thoughts/musings on Claire’s relationships with the Gandors + Firo, with Chané, and with Rachel).
I’ll move my fact-checking/canon consultation response to another post (probably as an ‘answer’ to the ‘part 2′ ask) and link it below.
LINK to Response’s Other Half: Canon Consultation
I think my responses are going to end up more “general thoughts” than “analysis,” but who knows; I haven’t written them yet.
With the Gandors + Firo
Let’s see… You know what I appreciate? Claire always comes back to the Gandors and Firo, no matter how long it might take. He runs away to join the circus, but he comes back home–because they are home to him, a foster family worth coming back to. They’re part of his world, and important enough to remain in it.
I like, too, the different dynamics he has with them individually. I love that he respects Keith enough to apologize when he’s done wrong by him in 1932, and I love everything about the 1927 arc (which was written for me, specifically)–how he has faith in Keith’s abilities but still cares enough to search for him, and is genuinely mad at himself for letting Donatello escape. Going back to the ‘respect’ aspect, I’m just glad the ‘older brother/younger brother’ element’ isn’t overlooked. (That it’s acknowledged at all.)
(April Edit: You’ve recently sent me an ask on Claire and Keith’s relationship, so I probably shouldn’t be too elaborate here.)
That Claire and Berga had regular sparring matches is…well, it isn’t surprising, but I do appreciate that they had their own thing going on (even if Luck and Firo did occasionally get caught in the crossfire). If Luck is the brother who attracts most of the (esp. anime-only) fandom’s limelight then Berga probably gets the least, you know?
I would like more than just their brawls in terms of Claire & Berga canon scraps, of course. Berga being thoroughly not on-board with Claire’s history of ‘proposing at first sight’ (Vol 3) is neat. I’ve also latched onto him referring to Claire as a ‘kid’ in Vol 2; I always figured Claire was closer to Luck’s age, but that ‘kid’ implies Berga puts some stock into this (i.e. views Claire as distinctly younger to him, even to a small degree) is interesting.
(Interesting because an older brother-younger brother dynamic/hierarchy was not necessarily something I found as distinct w/regard to Berga and Claire as I think it is with Keith and Claire? The brawling, their shared…uh, clumsiness–they’re the less ‘well-mannered’ of the four brothers, perhaps the brawn duo vs the brain duo–but I guess Berga as the middle child gets to have the middle ground. Closer to Keith’s age than Luck’s age, I think, so he has ‘enough’ of a leg up in terms of seniority–but not enough that he’s not above roughhousing with the younger sibs.)
In Vol 4, while watching Claire and Berga brawl, Luck thinks to himself, “They complain, but those two really do get along, don’t they…?“ And you know what, that makes sense. In light of the above, Berga might have had more in common with Claire as a kid than he did his blood brothers? He’s always been boisterous and belligerent, the type of person who has a lot of energy to burn off at any given time, and Claire’s the same way….
(I’ve just revisted the 1919 flashback in the 2015 manga: on one page Berga is shouting that “It’s dangerous” as Claire flips down from the rafters; on the next, he’s giving Luck a noogie…)
Claire’s not afraid to get a little physical with Luck either, though, given how casually he throws an arm around Luck’s neck/shoulders and drags him off in 1927. Which is fun (he does the same with Firo in 1919). I think one of the reasons 1927 is so great for Gandor-Firo-Claire fans is because it’s an uncommon instance where we see these guys interacting outside of work.
..Maybe you thought I was going to say, “interacting before 1931″ and that’s definitely a part of it! But…frankly, a lot of Claire’s interacts with Luck (and the other brothers) are within a ‘professional’ context, so to speak. That’s the consequence of Claire always traveling around; when we do see him return to the brothers/interact with them, it’s often due to a job.
(He hangs around Coraggioso in Vol 4 because the brothers need him; he later shows up at the DD because Gustavo hired him. We’re told in Vol 7 that he calls Luck to vouch for Jacuzzi’s Gang. The reason he crosses paths with the Gandors in 1935 is because he’s someone else’s bodyguard.)
In other words, not as much off-duty interaction as I would like. Which is making it surprisingly more difficult for me to speak of Claire and Luck’s relationship compared to his relationships with Keith and Berga–in fact, it might be easier to think about it w/respect to Claire and Firo’s relationship instead.
See… It’s not as if Luck isn’t pleased at the thought of Claire returning home. He’s genuinely happy when he confirms Claire is coming in 1931, for instance–though I’m sure he’s partly happy at the promise of having a powerful asset against the Runoratas. Not to mention, at the time it was quite a few years since he’d last seen Claire.
However, he’s full of wry exasperation (and perhaps resignation) towards Claire as well, a lot of the time. The type of long-suffering exasperation only a sibling knows, in that he is long used to Claire’s bullshit and mostly unfazed by his existence. “You get less and less human every time I see you,” he says to Claire in 1919, but ‘so what’?
All of the brothers are like this, frankly; they recognize Claire’s skill, they’re sincerely happy to welcome Claire home after long absences, but even then they’re not, say, jumping with joy. Their subsequent ‘mini-reunions’ aren’t treated as anything special; when Luck recognizes him in 1935, he’s mostly just exasperated Claire’s committed to his one (1) disguise. (As a sibling myself, I ‘get’ it, totally get not making a big deal out of one’s sibling.)
Compared to Luck and the others, Firo does practically jump for joy at the news of Claire coming home. The brothers (as siblings are wont to do) don’t go out of their way to effusively praise Claire or act impressed with him–whereas Firo easily and openly praises Claire and doesn’t hide how much he is impressed by Claire on a regular basis.
Er, but these musings are supposed to put Claire as the focus (and people have already discussed Firo-Claire from Firo’s perspective) so let me readjust the lens back to him. If I had to name something I think is ‘key’ to their relationship…it might just be that Firo’s admiration of Claire isn’t unilateral. In other words, I think it’s important that Claire admires Firo in turn.
Perhaps not to the same degree, since Firo’s admiration of him could quite possibly border on hero-worship (it stems from both sincere awe at Claire’s skill and insecurities that he’ll never be close to Claire’s league)… but Claire admiring/respecting anyone is probably nothing to sneeze at. More important is that he praises Firo too, that he can be positive and encouraging to his friend even if Firo doesn’t necessarily believe him.
And as much as Firo can be starry-eyed over Claire, I’m glad that such admiration isn’t all there is to their relationship. Er, it certainly colors it (Firo is much more openly warm with Claire than the brothers are), but it doesn’t thoroughly imbalance their interactions?
For all that Firo strongly admires Claire, their interactions are actually quite comfortable. Look at their mini-reunion in 1933, where Firo goes from tense to relaxed and smiling as he greets Claire; he’s so comfortable with Claire that he doesn’t even protest Claire referring to his ‘baby-face’ appearance (we will wryly note that Claire shortly thereafter says Firo must call him Felix now).
Maybe I’m looking into this too much, but I do thinking this is worth noting. That Firo can so unreservedly admire Claire and be unreservedly comfortable with him despite his own insecurities about his vs Claire’s abilities. He could be intensely envious, and perhaps he is a little envious, but he never holds his insecurities against Claire. He never lets those insecurities foment into resentment. He wholeheartedly admires Claire, but not in a fawning, obsequious way.
And then there’s Mr. Claire “has no common sense when it comes to other people’s hearts” Stanfield, who for all his self-absorption may actually have picked up on some of this. After all, it’s no small thing when he does honestly believe in/respect/admire someone; the way he looks at Firo in 1927 (ch4) makes me think he might be aware Firo doesn’t believe in himself in the way Claire believes in him.
I might have more to say, I might not have more to say; at this point I am increasingly muddled on what I’ve said and not said, and all I really know is I’ve probably spent way too long on this section as it is. It wasn’t even very long originally, but then I thought “oh, it’s too short” and expanded it. I’m moving on for my own sanity.
With Chané
Luckily for us both, I’ve just now discarded my original start to this response (which was several paragraphs long and setting itself up for a long haul); this is a Take Two wherein I will ideally just share some straightforward opinions (as opposed to broadly rambling about everything and anything, which the original start was threatening to do).
Claire and Chané pair up pretty quickly in canon, and perhaps the fandom lets them get away with it because it wasn’t technically ‘love at first sight’ for either of them. (That the ship is an ‘aesthetically nice’ one I’m sure doesn’t hurt). Of course they do have the famous proposal scene two weeks on from the FPF, and of course they’re courting by 1933, so that’s far from the only reason…
Still, though they ‘get together’ relatively quickly, they’re not a ‘perfect couple’ after the fact–except they are, just a bit, in that they work so well for each other and Claire was born to be the ‘100% supportive husband who’s always there’, and…why is the fandom so gung-ho about them, again? Why am I not rolling my eyes more at the pairing?
For many reasons, I suppose, starting with how the above isn’t…all there is to them, nor is it without exaggeration. They might be ‘perfect for’ each other, but not analogous with a ‘fairy-tale’ couple; if they really were just another cut-and-dry ‘love at first sight’ success, they’d have no friction or doubts. Claire would have ‘solved’ Chané’s myriad worries and ‘fixed’ (ugh) everything wrought by her upbringing just like that, and she’d love him easily and without hesitation.
But…things aren’t that simple, as much as Claire insists that they can be.Chané’s concerns and doubts don’t magically go away forever, and Claire reassures her that he loves her and that he is there for her every time they resurface. Is that ‘perfect mannish’ of him? Yes, but to be fair…that’s probably part of his and the ship’s appeal as whole.
I’ve said it before, but what makes Claire/Chané so appealing for a lot of people is how much they care for each other. People love how cheesy/sappy Claire is when it comes toChané! People love that Chané comes to fiercely love him back! And I…find it appealing too, perhaps because I think the love is a little overwhelming for both of them. Claire can be cheesy, but their relationship ultimately comes across as more heartfelt than cloying.
That it’s overwhelming forChané is obvious: she’s terrified at the thought of loving him (not terrified of Claire, but of the prospect of loving anyone besides her father); and she’s at such a loss when she inexorably accepts that he loves her so much and with so much sincerity.
But I do think it’s a lot for Claire as well, as confident as he acts; he has to ask Rachel for advice because he doesn’t want to mess this up, he’s hesitant and maybe even just a bit shy for once in his life when he stumbles over the proposal. I’m sure this holds its own appeal, for fans.
I said this was going to be straightforwardly my own opinions on Claire/Chané, and yet here I’ve gone again. I’m too far in to start over with a ‘Take 3′, so let’s just get back on track (heh) here.
The thing I like most (and I’ve said this before as well) is the mutual respect they have for each other; that Claire believes inChané and she (despite herself) in him. Claire will joinChané’s fight not because he thinks she needs the help, but simply because he enjoys fighting alongside her. By the by, that one time when we get the reverse (i.e. whenChané has his back in the 1933 fight) is my FAVORite thing Narita has done with them as a couple, probably.
I will admit that, as lovely as it is to see how tirelessly Claire will reassureChané when she’s in emotional turmoil, I think I’ve seen enough scenes wherein Claire hugsChané from behind and says something like ‘Don’t worry, I’m here’ for the time being. It’s not that I protest the notion, far from it, but I personally get more enjoyment from them being a power couple for one thing. (It’s not like we have much opportunity forChané to be the one reassuring Claire, given how confident Claire is.)
(Honestly this might be why I kinda sorta enjoyChané‘s internal conflict in 1935, as Concerned as I am for her. I was very !!! when she worries in 1935-A that she’s going to end up relying on Claire because she trusts him–and !!! by her desire to “face Claire as an equal.” On the one hand I’m just, “Chané no it’s okay, you’re just experiencing positive character growth…shh…just let it happen…”
…but on the other a small part of me is going “but she’s not wrong, these are valid fears” anddd you know what, I’m getting off topic and I was already thinking of writing a post on “Baccano!’s couples and mutual reliance” as it is, so I’m just going to stop that train (heh) of thought for now.
Claire andChané really do hit a lot of those ‘perfect dream pairing’ beats, but…ah, I may have hit upon something: When Claire enters Chané‘s world, he doesn’t destroy it–but he doesn’t become her world either, as he might have done as a fairy-tale prince. He simply expands it, just like he promised. WhenChané arrives in New York, her world is no longer “Huey’s”–but it doesn’t become “Claire’s” either; she fashions her own world, sharing it with the world of Jacuzzi’s gang and Claire both.
And Claire, as devoted toChané as he is, still has his own life as a freelancer hitman post-Chané; really, I just think it was incredibly important thatChané continued living with Jacuzzi’s gang rather than move in with Claire post-proposal. That is something that would’ve probably happened with a fairy-tale couple (fall in-love–>marry>move-in together), but I’m so glad Narita doesn’t pull it with these two. Maybe this is another reason why I’m on board; I don’t think I would have been nearly as okay with them ‘living as’ a couple immediately post-reunion.
Isaac & Miria are each other’s world, and it works for them–butChané desperately needed that ‘in-between’ period, i.e. “between Huey” and “between Claire,” where she was no longer ‘actively’ Huey’s tool and not yet ‘Claire’s wife’. A period where she could be hers first.
(It’s similarly important I think that Ennis–and there’s certainly something that could be done by comparing Ennis andChané’s circumstances–enters the Martillos’ fold at the same time she moves in with Firo. Learning to live for oneself/outside another’s boundaries doesn’t require one live by oneself or strike out on one’s own. Both women’s roads to independence are absolutely made easier with support systems along the way; both women’s lives are bettered by experiencing the sincere kindness of others. Others plural.)
I’m going to stop here because these are getting way too long (aka they’re reaching the points where each relationship section would be better off as a separate post) and I only ever wanted to not spend hours writing this in the first place.
With Rachel
“I totally headcanon he still meets up with her and asks for advice” // I think the entire fandom headcanons this, including me, and this is why you guys rock. I was sold as soon as I saw “Claire meeting Rachel over food” popping up in unrelated fics (in my early days as a fan), and happily subscribed to the idea in my own fics later on. It feels so natural!
Honestly it feels so natural that sometimes I almost forget it’s not canon, i.e. that their Alveare lunch is the last we’ve seen of them interacting. I have to forcibly remind myself they’re not technically friends even though it feels like they are…
…It’s pretty obvious I’m all for Claire and Rachel being friends, huh? I think it’s safe to say the potential for friendship is there; with Claire’s casual/familiar way of engaging her, they’re halfway acting like friends already. My instinct is that Rachel wouldn’t be as quick to say ‘friends’, though? Some reluctance at first might be involved; at the very least, I think some resignation.
Why reluctance? Eh…while she does warm up to him in Alveare, it’s only up to a point. She thinks him a tactless oddball, and still thinks of him more in “Rail Tracer” terms than “human” terms. She came this close to liking him as a person, only for his “I’ll make her love me” line to kill such sentiment. Her approach to the conversation is, “what do I say that won’t make him want to murder me?”
I also feel that she wouldn’t be keen off the bat to be friends with Claire when the memories of him torturing Czes are so fresh? My feeling is that they’d probably need to spend more time together before she sees what they have as friendship. Enough time for her to grow more comfortable around him, even if she isn’t aware of it; enough that she doesn’t worry about watching what she says around him; enough that she does start liking him as a person; enough that she sees him as human more often than she does Rail Tracer.
I just used a whole lot of words to say, “hm, maybe Rachel would be slower to accept they are friends,” huh. See… I really enjoy the idea of Rachel and Claire being bros who regularly hang out, right? But all this has reminded me that she would…probably have some uncomfortable wariness to overcome at first; and, for all my brain likes to imagine them as being comfortable around each other…would Rachel ever feel fully comfortable around him?
Maybe. It would take time, but that was the case for Chané, too. (So much for that ‘fairy-tale’ perfection).
As for the Claire/Rachel NDS ending (#54 for those who want to look it up)…are you asking if I think the ending is plausible, for my thoughts on it and Claire/Rachel’s couple potential in general?
So. If we consider the Claire/Rachel ship within the context of Ending #54…well, it’s important to recognize that Rachel accepting his proposal is not an action borne from positive feelings–it’s one of self-sacrifice. She accepts it as a punishment for all the times she stowed away, and to stop Claire from spilling more blood.
Now, the game tells us they do sit and talk for hours after the proposal, and my guess is–as per the canon Alveare lunch–it’s in talking to him that Rachel sees he has a human side. (And from there realizes that maybe marrying him isn’t going to be the punishment she intended it to be). Obviously that’s “best case scenario” speculation, but I think it’s unlikely that the ending was intended to be a “bad end” for Rachel considering their canon interactions.
(I definitely would be v. uncomfortable if Rachel still saw it as a punishment after all those hours of talking with him in the NDS ending, but again…I don’t think that’s what Narita had in mind).
In any case… I can’t speak for Narita on this (no duh), though I’m sure they’re more plausible than the Claire/Ladd crack ending. I do see the appeal of Claire/Rachel as a couple–ah, and see how one might prefer the idea of them to Claire/Chané. Even if the latter’s romance isn’t necessarily cloying, there’s enough sappy sentiment going on that one might prefer the more casual, down-to-earth air of Claire and Rachel’s Alveare interaction.
I…really do see the appeal, but I harbor a couple reservations similar to those I felt toward LuckEve in that Luck write-up–reservations in terms of ‘how likely/easily could Rachel/Eve overlook their moral qualms with Claire/Luck’. I found myself skeptical that Eve would marry the man responsible for drowning her brother–let alone marry into the mafia–and I’m…not sure that Rachel could so easily enter a relationship with the Rail Tracer.
Whom she saw torture Czes in unspeakable ways. Who was spilling blood all over her precious railways, tantamount to blasphemy.
Well, the interesting twist is that she sees herself just as guilty as he is in terms of ‘sullying the pride of the train’ (to which Claire, speaking for all of us, points out the oddness of equating murder with stowing away)–so who knows? Rachel is wary of him in canon, but I could see her at some point asking herself if she has the right to be condemning or fearful of him; who is she to act morally ‘better’ than him when she has a history of stowing away?
Again, such logic is a bit warped, but if the alternative is the NDS Ending wherein she initially accepts his proposal as a punishment… I’ll take the former, maybe.
At the end of it day, I just want Claire and Rachel to continue having some kind of familiar relationship post-their Alveare lunch. They’re like Luck and Eve in that they have very few canon interactions so I can’t state anything definitely about a romance (though my doubts as to LuckEve are…assuredly stronger)…but I can say I’m definitely one who sees the potential for a familiar relationship at minimum.
I’m just…going to bring this to a close, since I’ve spent the last several hours trying to finish the last 15% of this and the other post, and I’ve kept you waiting on these asks for too long as it is. Also because I have increasingly less and less of an idea as to what I’ve said and not said thus far, and increasingly less brain cells with which to check.
(This is why I do better with specifics/specific questions; if you give me any leeway I am liable to vague-ramble all over the place.)
There was also something concerning immortality. If I recall correctly he's not worried about being immortal, but he says something like he'll never die, because someone may invent an immortality elixir. And when he proposes to Chane, it's a bit more business at first? I remember he says something about Keith disowning him if he leaves her with the options (essentially marry me or prepare for battle) But I need to go double check. A few other things also, but thanks for remembering my Question!
The above screenshot is amara77′s preceding part to this ask, which they sent around…February (I think), but I only recently finished the final 15% or so of my response(s) to these questions.
Amara’s Claire-focused questions fall into two categories: Fact-checking/Canon Consultation; and Relationship Musings. Originally my response was going to be limited to a single post, but the post was becoming so long that I decided it would probably be prudent to split it across the two main asks. One post for the fact-checking, the other for musings.
This post is for the canon consultation section, which I wrote first/before tackling the Relationships question. I’ll include a brief outline just so we’re clear on what’s below the cut vs what’s in the other half, at the end of which I’ll link to said other half (the Relationships response).
Below the Cut: Fact-Checking/Canon Consultation
Glowing Eyes: Do Claire’s eyes glow in the LNs like they do in the anime?
I’ll Never Die/Immortality Q: I think Claire mentioned an immortality elixir when he was talking about why he’ll never die… can you refresh me on that?
Marriage Proposal: Can you refresh me on Claire’s marriage proposal to Chané? I remember it being more business-like, and maybe there was something about Keith disowning him…
LINK to Response’s Other Half: Relationships
Glowing Eyes: Both the anime’s script (at least once) and the light novel narration (more than once) call the Rail Tracer a “red shadow,” but it’s mainly the anime that actually plays upon the idea of a Red Shadow visually. More than once it presents the Rail Tracer as a smoky, shadowy form with–as you say–gleaming eyes… And–well–we know Claire is a mortal human, so of course he isn’t literally a Red Shadow. And surely his eyes can’t “literally glow,” though they can be subject to literary license (i.e. evocative description).
Here’s how Jacuzzi describes the “red shadow’s” eyes in Volume 2:
A red shadow with the sun at its back. The shadow had two eyes in the same place a human’s would be. In the shadows cast by the light behind it, the eyes were filled with a deep darkness, a further singularity. Although they seemed like calm, black jewels, they also looked like portals to purgatory that absorbed and trapped all the surrounding light.
This is artistic/dramatic imagery at work (his eyes aren’t literally portals to purgatory, hah, but they somehow “look like” them)–which in this instance evokes the opposite of “glowing eyes,” how about that. Of course, one could say this is situational; Claire’s back is to the sunrise, after all…
…but in Volume 3, Chané thinks [of Claire] that there is a “terrible radiance that seemed to absorb all light” all about him. Also, we get a continuation of the “portal” simile…
Then he looked right into Chané’s eyes. It was as if deep holes had opened up in his eyes, and demons were beckoning to her soul from their depths.
…to an extreme which I can’t help but find a bit funny. I’m sorry, Narita, I really am, but I can’t take this line seriously. (What I do want is fanart which takes the line literally). Later on we get the line, “His eyes still radiated a deadly light” which I assume is his murderous intent, but…Narita are his eyes absorbing light or radiating light? Make up your mind? (Earlier in Vol 3 we get “His own [eyes] still held that inhuman light” when he’s looking at Rachel; I’m sure the anime was happy to interpret this literally.)
“He lived with all the killing intent his eyes radiated sealed away inside himself.” No seriously, which is it.
This answer was meant to be short (since it really just boils down to “anime used artistic license”) but quoting the LNs takes up space… Regarding the anime specifically, check out Episode 9′s English dub commentary–Tyler poses the same question to Ian Sinclair (Dallas) and Jerry Jewell (Claire). Ian suggests that the Red Shadow is how Claire’s victims see him, glowing eyes included, while Jerry posits we’re seeing Claire’s “perception of himself,” i.e. in ‘becoming’ the Rail Tracer there’s a sort of mental transformative process he goes through.
I’ll Never Die/Immortality what?: You’re thinking of what he says to Ladd in Volume 3, which I’ll quote below (bolding mine).
“This world is mine. I think it might even be something in a long, long dream I’m seeing. I mean, think about it. You could be illusions; I can’t prove you actually exist. So I figured this world revolves around me. If I believe I can do something, I’m always able to do it, and when it gets close to my time to go, I bet somebody comes up with some kind of immortality elixir. Or maybe I’ll wake up from the dream I’m having now and go to some other dream. In other words, I’ll last forever.”
He’s not aware of the actual elixir when he says this line, but…yeah, I can see how someone would read this and go, “Wait, does this imply Claire would drink the elixir on his deathbed?”
Well, no. Not necessarily. When Chané indicates that Huey really is immortal, Claire assures her that he will not try to steal the secret of immortality from her father “because [he doesn’t] need to.” …Though he does say he’d take it if Huey gave it to him?!?! (”If he says he’ll give it to me, sure, I’ll take it…”). In the end:
“Even without the power of immortality, there’s no way I’m gonna die. Because I believe I won’t.”
So…how about that. Huh. It’s impossible for Huey to give Claire what he doesn’t have (the perfect elixir) of course, but it is interesting that Claire says he’d take it if it were offered. Has he said something to the contrary since (i.e. has this been retconned/has he changed his mind)? I can’t remember off the top of my head.
I wonder if it matters who’s doing the offering–would he accept it because it’s Huey (whom he wants to please/do well by), and would it be different if it were, say, Maiza (i.e. if Firo persuaded Maiza to offer Claire the elixir). Not that the latter is on the table, I guess. (Even if Firo had the audacity to ask, and even if Maiza were somehow willing to make more of it, making Claire immortal would give the Gandors a huge long-term asset as much as it would put the Gandors in the Martillos’ debt).
It’s an eyebrow-raising line for sure, but I think the ultimate point is that Claire believes he will never die regardless of whether he’s mortal or immortal. An immortality elixir is just one of the options he lists; he doesn’t feel it’s necessary “to prevent death” because it would be preventing something that’s never going to happen anyway.
Marriage Proposal: “Business at first” is a fairly apt term, yeah. He first asks Chané if she wants to fight him to the death now that Ladd is gone, but “at a sudden thought” points out he’s a hitman and gives her two options: hire him (to kill Ladd/the people who want to kill Huey), or fight him to the death.
It’s then that he asks about Huey’s immortality; she reacts badly, he guesses Huey is her only family, and she can’t trust him since he’s not family. So he comes up with a third option: he marries into the family.
“All right, now we’ve got three options instead of two: Either fight me to the death here, or hire me for a job and put me on your team even though you don’t trust me, or marry me and we’ll protect Huey together. Those three. Do you understand?”
This is where the “Keith disowning” bit you remember comes in:
“Frankly, I wouldn’t have minded just going with the ‘marry me’ and ‘fight to the death’ options, but that would have seemed like a threat, and I thought it would be kind of unmanly. Besides, if I did something like that, my brother Keith might actually disown me.”
All from Volume 3, again. He proceeds to suggest “Huey adopting him” as an alternative to marriage, though he assures her that the marriage option isn’t a joke/he’d take it seriously. It is all a bit reminiscent of, “please choose the business plan/contract which best suits your needs,” isn’t it…
how did Huey hear about Claire? What age was Claire? Was this elaborated on at all? Just popped in my head today.
(Sorry for the delay…! Also, I did receive your older ask about a Claire write-up in the same vein as the Luck write-up, but I wasn’t sure exactly what you wanted so I haven’t started on it, I’m afraid. You said you might have specific questions–do you have them now? A general idea of what you want from the write-up would help.)
On with the question…
I’m…really not sure how much you know/don’t know based on what you’ve said, so I’ll play it safe (e.g. I’ll operate assuming you may have forgotten about the September 1925 scene, as featured in the first 1933 novel).
So: In September 1925, Huey meets Tim and recruits him to his side, yes? But Tim wasn’t the reason why he and Chané traveled to Manhattan a month or so before–it was, indeed, Claire. As for how? Eh… First, let’s see what Huey has to say about it (to Tim in Sep 1925):
“You see, you’re far more brilliant than either you or the people around you think you are. I came to this town because I’d heard rumors of a boy genius named Claire Stanfield, but apparently, he’s already left the city… And then, as if in exchange, I learned about you. You may be even more talented than young Claire, you know.”
…That’s all he has to say about it, by the way. ‘Rumors’. So descriptive.
In the end, it’s up to us fans to speculate on whether Huey and/or his people just happened to hear rumors and thought “hey, that kids sounds recruitable” …or whether Huey had instructed his information network to actively be on the lookout for people who might be useful assets to him (in other words, his people would have been purposefully keeping an ear out for such rumors than just ‘happening’ to hear them).
As for whether or not it was ‘rumors’ that led the Huey network to Claire–eh, it’s not implausible. Claire would’ve been in the circus for five years by 1925, which means he would’ve had a reputation as a great acrobat by then. I could believe Huey’s people picked up on buzz about a “prodigy child acrobat,” though Huey admittedly doesn’t say what rumors he actually heard…
Anyway, I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to suggest Huey had his people actively looking for ‘young geniuses’ at the time; after all, he recruited Tim once he couldn’t find Claire. Especially not if Sham was active then, which I think he might have been? I feel like Narita hasn’t been super clear on when Sham was created… However, this is where the Leeza ‘vessel’ comes in handy…
Narita’s been amazingly vague about Leeza’s physical age, but if we can point to a year or range of years when she was likely born, we can identify when Hilton was active. So: in 1933-1934 Narita pretty much describes her as a “young girl” or “very young girl” (So helpful). The JP wiki says 1935-C has a line putting her around 10 years old (“本体がまだ10歳前後の少女である事を知った上で” p 113) …which I think corresponds to this fan TL line: “[Liza’s] real self was only in the first stages of adolescence” (p 68).
Personally I doubt that Leeza is only 10 in 1935; in that one 1935 drawing of the Laforet sisters, she definitely looks more like an adolescent (12-13; 14?). It’s possible that Enami drew her older than Narita intended, but…ehhh, I think her crush on Firo fits more with the 12-14 age range. Also, Narita may say “very young girl” but Carol is already proof that he’s written characters who look fairly younger than they really are.
Anyway. If we assume Leeza is anywhere between 10-14 years old in 1935, that means she was born anywhere between 1921-1924. So, Hilton existed at that time, which surely means Sham did as well.
If Huey had even one of the twins operating as his information/spy network by 1925, then the odds of Sham picking up on and |\investigating rumors about Claire seem fairly good ones. Even without the twins Huey would’ve still had plenty of homunculi or human subordinates around the East Coast keeping their eyes/ears to the ground.
As for how old Claire was in 1925…my rough estimate is maybe around 15, but it’s a relative guesstimate 90% going off of Luck and Firo’s ages so take it with a grain of salt. Narita is really vague when it comes to Claire’s age, the Gandors’ ages, and how old they are relative to each other, see.
Henry says Claire looks like he’s in his early twenties in 1932, maybe the same age as him or a year older (which means diddly squat, Narita, if you don’t tell us how old Henry is, Narita). Luck is said to be “around twenty” in 1930. Firo is 18 and a half years old in 1930, so he was probably born around May 1912. This would make him around seven years old in the 1919 flashback, and around 13 in 1925 - 13 being roughly how old he was when he joined the Martillos. 15 and a half or so in Sep 1927.
Now, Claire was still with the Gandors in 1919, but in the circus by Winter 1920. He was in the circus for five years, so 1925 is likely the year the circus disbanded (could maybe be 1924, but so far I’ve stuck with 1925).
Which brings us to our main problem: It’s still not all that clear how old Claire is relative to Luck and Firo, so even now all we can do is approach it in simple terms. “Is he closer to Firo’s age, or Luck’s age?” He’s got a little height on Firo in 1919, but height’s no guarantee..
…Well, I guess I’ve always assumed Claire is closer to Luck’s age than Firo’s, so that’s where I’m getting my 15 estimate from. If Luck is around 15 in 1925, then for now I’m of the mind Claire is too. This would make him around 10 years old in the 1920 flashback, which sounds reasonable enough.
Hey hey good luck with all your traveling today! Also ummm thanks for doing the fact check because I didn't get around to it haha -_- Also ya long answers...I like that XD I'm excited, I like to see parallels you make, because sometimes it's something that I though of, but it didn't quite stand out for some reason.
Thank you for the good luck; I’ve just gotten back home five-ish minutes ago (it’s 10 PM; we stopped for dinner at a nearby city on our way back. We were on the road for a good 8+ hours today...! 4+ hours on the way there (stopping early for gas and later for food on family’s parts), a little over two hours stoppage in the city itself to see the rivers’ confluence point + nearby museum, and 4+ ish hours of driving on the way back (stopping for gas again + later close to home for dinner).
(Sorry, this may be oversharing via fatigue--I got more sleep last night than I did the three hours the night before, yet I am equally if not more so tired right now, ha. Stiff and sore to boot--no, there I go again. Suffice it to say we did not suffer any flat tires or heart attacks on the way there or back.)
Aha, well, it’s the combo of the “answers to your B! canon-consultation asks and the relationship/abilities stuff that’s made the current B! ask draft quite long; if I split it into two, I’m sure the responses will seem more reasonable. (side note: not sure what you wanted from me re: Claire’s abilities so my working assumption was “what are Rev’s general thoughts on Claire’s abilities... I haven’t actually gotten to verbalizing those thoughts yet, though; the place I was at last re: answering your stuff was the Claire+Rachel relationship bit. If there was something specific you wanted re: his abilities, let me know).
“I like to see parallels you make...didn’t stand out...” // Haha, it’s the same with me when I see literally any other meta/analysis(ses) written by anyone else. It always feels like everyone else is 10x more insightful, you know? So hearing someone want to hear my thoughts...it just goes to show that we all have something interesting to say.
Hey now don't you DARE question your writings on any characters! That friend is WRONG! Listen first of all if characters weren't well thought out, we would not have the stories we have! Narita himself let's the characters write the story (to some extent) hence his frustration with Claire. I enjoy a well thought out character analysis, in fact I LIVE for them! I like when someone has a good understanding and can compare and contrast the way you do, and I am picky about these things.
(Amara is referring to this post from yesterday.)
Aw, that’s very nice of you to say?! I like seeing people’s character insights too; I I like coming across observations I didn’t think of on my own. His opinion seems to be that talking about characters as people is more shallow/weaker compared to the type of analysis he was a proponent of. If people have indeed found value in any of my ‘baccanalysis’ tagged posts in the past than I’ll probably continue taking his opinion with a grain of salt… I’d rather not let what he says get to me, hah.
(The question from anon I’m working on is Luck-related, by the by).
“Would [Claire] be jealous or not…?” // So you’re asking in regard to both romantic and…non-romantic situations, huh… Welp, I’d better keep this under a cut just in case.
Well, when it comes to romance, I agree; he’s got a killer combo of confidence x very few insecurities - most importantly, confidence in not just himself but the people he cares about - so I don’t think he feels like he has to worry about Chané too much. Whether it’d be another suitor attempting to court her, or the (far) more unlikely scenario in which she, say, started eyeing another man… Eh, he’d probably declare his intention to woo her back no matter how long it takes or affirm his confidence in Chané’s love for him.
(If there’s a suitor I imagine him going, “hey I’m her fiancé, just try it I dare you” would be enough to deter most suitors…)
Over-protective, huh… Well, maybe, though he’s said more than once that he’s confident in Chané’s ability to hold her own; usually when he helps her out it’s because he just wants to help her and enjoys fighting alongside her, right? I’m not wholly disagreeing with you, by the way – he clearly cares for the people he’s close to, and wants to lend them his aid where possible.
As for non-romantic jealousy… So, there’s actually an Ending route (Endings 40 & 59) in the NDS game that involve jealousy from Claire. Basically, after he waxes poetic about Jacuzzi’s eyes, he sees how keenly she loves and worries for Jacuzzi and is jealous that he doesn’t have anyone like her. Jealous of Jacuzzi, that is, and jealous enough that he accidentally punches Jacuzzi in the face rather than allowing Jacuzzi to defeat him as per canon.
Whoops.
Now… well, these two Endings were written by Narita as all of them were, but I do find it a bit silly that Claire somehow accidentally punched Jacuzzi out of jealousy. (Actually, it sounds more like envy than jealousy...) Yeah, it’s a childish move and Claire can be a bit childish himself (the eternal Peter Pan, as Narita is so fond of calling him), but… I don’t know, I feel like his self-confidence ought to be strong enough that he wouldn’t feel jealous over such a thing.
Like... He moved on from each and every girl who rejected him without much ado, yeah? His rationale, if I’m remembering correctly, was that they simply must not have been the right person for him and that he would eventually meet the ‘right’ girl someday.
I suppose he’s childish enough that I could maybe see him being jealous for a moment or two, but not much longer than that. I mean, if jealousy is being envious of someone’s achievements/advantages, than I just don’t think it’s in Claire’s nature to be genuinely jealous of things like that. He considers himself to be the strongest/best, so why would he be jealous of other people’s talents? If anything I feel like he would admire/respect other people’s strengths...
(e.g. when he waxes poetic about Jacuzzi’s eyes, genuinely admires Firo in 1927, generally celebrates how strong Chané is..) If someone else knows how to do something he doesn’t... I don’t think he’d be too upset. He’d probably be confident in his ability to learn the skill (and likely surpass them in it). Off the top of my head I’m having a hard time thinking of examples in the novels where he ever wishes he were like someone/had what they had. He’s more likely to either make fun of them (e.g. when he mocks Alkins for having pride as an assassin) or, as I said before, respect their skill.
There’s a canon incident where he’s briefly shown up - i.e. when Ennis smashes in the Mist Wall door while he’s trying to unlock the doors), but he’s not really jealous of that - he could have surely done what she did as well. His reaction “I can’t let her get away with showing me up” (paraphrase) is immature, but not jealousy-driven.
Personally I’ve always liked his confidence in Chané--that he helps her because he loves her, not because he views her as a damsel in distress. If he were someone with an inclination towards jealousy, I imagine he’d be a lot more jealous/fretful over the fact that she’s living with a gang full of single men? (While a lot of the delinquents are kids/adolescents, there are some guys close to Chané’s age, like Jon and Jacuzzi, Nick...). Pretty risque, hmmm?
But he doesn’t! He trusts in Chané as she trusts in him, and their mutual respect/trust is pretty great. If he says, “This is my girl,” he’s not doing it out of swaggering “mine don’t touch” intimidation, he’s saying it simply because he’s proud she’s “his girl.”
Really, Claire may be a bit childish/immature, but for all that he’s immature he’s pretty above jealousy, I think. Boy, if only I had his self-confidence...
