#android saga

[darkailuros]

Bom dia

[doctor-d00m]

[ifeelalot]

[killowave]

[justme068]

Future boy

Took ref from this poster. I've never watch this film before, just thought it looked cool😅

[bowlinggwithmargo]

These two situations are exactly the same yet Krillin gets more flack for his decision than Goku. Ultimately, Krillin makes the same choice to save an incredibly dangerous, world ending threat for the potential of personal gain. My brother argued that it's different because Goku has saiyan blood/biology. So fighting Vegeta was him reconnecting with his lost heritage and, because of their biological programming to fight/prove one's strength, could not make any other decision or override that programing/urge.

But to me it's an active choice. Goku chooses to indulge in what his blood/biology is telling him at the cost of the entire world including his own family (that's why he says it's not the smart choice because ultimately it was a choice.) Of course Krillin's choice to spare Android 18 lacks the same stakes but when you look at his DB character arc, his history of bullying where he was made to feel like his life was worthless, and his desperation for romantic connection as a way to reaffirm his self worth, it makes sense that he would cling to the affection Android 18 gives him as a way to rationalize himself. (It's just like the "thrill" or personal satisfaction Goku experienced and cherished while fighting Vegeta.)

Moreover, Krillin makes this decision not just out of his own want of romantic love but because Android 18's affection towards him actively humanizes her and makes her out to be more than just a destructive killing machine. Like Goku says with Vegeta, "it would be a waste," to kill her. I'm not saying it was a good choice, but a selfish one on par with Goku's choice with Vegeta.

Overall, my argument was that during the Android Saga everyone involved kept making selfish decisions to reaffirm themselves. Vegeta chooses to let Cell absorb 17, even going so far to hurt Trunks to do so. Trunks chooses to let his desperation to connect with his father override his responsibility to destroy the androids/Cell when he had his chance. Krillin chooses to save Android 18 after witnessing her humanity (her care for him) and is unable to kill her. Gohan later makes the active choice to toy with Cell when he had the chance to kill him. And Goku, alongside Vegeta, decided against Bulma (who wanted to kill the androids before they became a threat) and let the Android emerge so that they could fight them for a challenge. In terms of the Saiyans, none of them were forced into doing what they did because of their biology/urge to fight as these were active choices. The only times where they are unable to choose for themselves is when they are in the Oozaru state and destroy things at random.

Ultimately all the characters listed above are equally to blame for Cell getting to full strength and I understand why people hate Krillin for this, but it gets on my nerves when people get angry at Krillin's choice but let Goku's choice slide.

(Tho from a narrative perspective most of the entire arc revolves around father and son relationships and the way fathers fail their sons.

By putting his desires over Trunks, Vegeta fails his son as Trunks puts getting his father's approval over stopping Cell immediately. Goku then fails Gohan similarly by forcing him into a battle he does not want to fight but that's another topic for another day.

Because Krillin's portion of the arc has no bearing on this major theme of the saga, he is ultimately irrelevant to its narrative. Meanwhile, Vegeta and his rationalization of what happened is integral to the audience's understanding of his character and the arc to the point he even takes responsibility for letting things get this bad.

So, considering the arc really revolves around Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, and Gohan and the main instigator of the events revolving these four characters is Vegeta, from narrative perspective, most of the blame on who truly dropped the ball during the Android/Cell Saga is on Vegeta. Not saying other characters didn't contribute of course but I feel Toriyama makes it quite clear it's Vegeta ultimately.)

@gokusclit ur like the DBZ/Vegeta/Goku expert so I trust your opinion am I right in thinking this???

[a-blog-for-venting-i-guess]

The Android/Cell saga accomplishes what all stories should strive for. The story plays out the way it does because of choices the characters make, not because the plot demands it.

The entire saga could have been avoided if ANY of the Z fighters took Bulma up on her idea to wish to find Doctor gero and then kill but no, peeps wanted to fight the androids. And the rest of the story is like this.

When Krillin destroys the thing that could make 18 self destruct, thus destroying the thing that could save the world, the audience isn’t “ugh this is stupid,” no. Instead it’s “Krillin you dumbass!”

Same when vegeta decided to let Cell absorb 18 to see how strong he could get, Trunks letting vegeta fight Cell first, Goku giving Cell a sensu bean, Gohan wanting to torture Cell instead of finishing him off, etc. The arc is filled with this.

Hubris is a big theme of the Android and Cell sagas and it’s just such a treat because of all the cool character stuff that happens. Characters go from getting consumed by their arrogance to humbled over and over. A lot of the time in the same fight.

It’s just so neat to watch unfold. Do I have nostalgia bias? Maybe. But I wanted to throw some love at the Android and Cell sagas since I feel like they’re misunderstood.

[vanderdyks]

I literally dont know how to continue explaining to people that part of the reason Goku decided to stay dead was because Gohan hated fighting.

He didnt know this until cell. He literally had no idea. Gohan NEVER gave any indication whatsoever. Couple that with the fact Bulma pointed out most of people threatening the Earth during that point in time were all people wanting Goku. The saiyans. Frieza. The androids. Doctor Gero. Cell.

All because of Goku. Its not his fault but his very existence consistently put the Earth in danger. He truly believed Earth would be safer without him and therefore, gohan wouldnt be consistently placed into battle.

Because Goku didnt know gohan hated fighting. But once he knew came the very interwoven nature of these threats he brought making his own son fight because gohan felt he HAD to. Not because he wanted to. For goku, protecting the earth always aligned with his own love for fighting. But gohan fought out of necessity, out of the very idea that they couldnt afford to do it without him. He has this power he didnt ask for so he must use it right? Because it would be selfish if he didnt.

But goku... goku thought gohan was like him. Gohan WANTED to return to help fight vegeta. He WANTED to go to namek. He WANTED to stay and fight after piccolo almost died to frieza. Goku didnt see gohan train that first year. Didnt witness what it took to make gohan a fighter. All he saw was his son who now was strong and wanted to join the fight like his dad. And he knows gohan is more powerful than them, knows he can stop cell, FELT IT. Gohan has to defeat cell because no one else can. So he thinks if gohan gets angry enough fighting cell, itll be the answer. Because thats how its always been for goku. And in thirty seconds piccolo makes him realize he's wrong. He doesnt argue back, he listens and concedes and realizes that piccolo is right. And suddenly goku wants to abandon his plan and stop the fight. He made a mistake. He intends to get gohan out. And in the end, he still ended up being right, but it doesnt change what goku now knows. Gohan isnt like him and he doesnt enjoy fighting.

Goku would have NEVER made gohan fight if he thought he didnt want to. You know this whenever adult gohan gets involved in a fight and goku apologizes that he had to. Or when someone suggests gohan for a battle and goku is like nah he's "out of practice," even when they have time FOR PRACTICE. He never wants to force gohan into a situation like cell again. Because cell was a mistake and goku has learned from it. So he never asks Gohan to fight anymore. If Gohan wants in then of course he's in. But he wants his son to be able to choose that. He wants gohan to be HAPPY and if thats not fighting then thats perfectly alright with goku.

So it wasnt just about keeping the earth safe. Or his friends. It was knowing that in the safety of gokus absence, gohan wouldnt have to fight either. There would be less threats, less chances of his son being forced into battle. And sure he also trusted that gohan and the others could keep the earth safe if they had to, but he was banking on the threat level significantly decreasing instead.

And decrease it did. They had seven whole years of peace. Not a single threat. Meanwhile from the moment Raditz shows up to gokus death to cell, it all takes place within the span of FIVE YEARS. The longest they went without a threat was the three year gap spent training for the androids. And they spent every waking moment knowing they were coming.

And then if you look at trunks future... majority of the human population being wiped out by the androids. Majority of gokus friends. His son. All dead. Because of him. Because he defeated the red ribbon army when he was a child. And that very easily could have been their future as well. So Goku does his job in preventing that. He saves all of them. And if hes the only one who ends up dead, well... it doesnt matter. Because they aren't. And he intends to keep it that way. So he stays in otherworld, to keep them safe and to give his son a future that he can choose. If Gohan has to fight, then he can. But at least his father wouldnt be the one bringing the threats to his door.