#breaking veg

[acti-veg]

Hey I'm a bit conflicted. I've been vegan for more than 5 years and I'm contemplating to eat fish again (but not other meat, no milk products, honey, etc.) but I feel bad for it because my reasons for being vegan in the first place haven't changed. The sentience debate around "can fish feel pain" is known to me. Idk I just kinda want someone to talk me out of it. I try to justify it with the most ridiculous stuff like not needing to supplement anymore and I'm starting to believe my therapist that maybe veganism is the reason for feeling so low on energy and depressed because it started about the same time I changed the way I eat (even though in heart I believe that's bullshit)... I'm sorry for this huge text. What do you think? Did you ever have personal doubts about it before?

There is absolutely no reason why you would need to eat fish based on what you’ve told me. It isn’t necessary for you so you would be giving up on your veganism for the sake of enjoying fish, and while your intention is to only eat fish, in my experience it seldom stops there. Once you start seeing animals as food again, and their lives as being worth less than your taste preferences or convenience, that is a fundamental shift in your wider philosophy and personal ethics.

Just as an example, why fish but not crab? Both are sentient, both are social animals with individual identities, needs, both would prefer comfort to pain, safety to danger, being free to being trapped and killed. If crab is fine to eat, what about chickens? What is the fundamental moral difference between eating fish/crabs and eating chickens? What quality is inherent in chickens that makes it immoral to eat them, but not present in fish? How about pigs? Cows?

There is just no ethically consistent position that allows us to consume some animals but not others, at least in cases where both are sentient. As soon as we begin to pick and choose which sentient animals morally matter and which ones don’t, we buy into the fundamental oppressive paradigm that some lives are worth less than others. Are you convinced by that assertion already?

Think of this as not ‘I’m going to eat fish,’ but I’m going to stop being vegan, stop being anti-speciesist, and since fish are up there with cows as one of the least sustainable animals you can eat, you’re also giving up on having a consistent environmental position, too. It’s not an exception to your rule, it’s giving up the rule entirely, and for what? There is nothing (and I do mean nothing) present in fish that that you can’t get anywhere else. The only possible factor is omega, which you can get from flaxseed, algae oil etc in equal amounts.

You’re not even just choosing to let fish be killed either, you’re also choosing to let whales, other porpoises, sharks, dolphins etc. die as bycatch, since there is no fishing standard or certification in existence they you could exclusively buy from which would guarantee no losses from bycatch. You’d have to buy from an individual fisherman you know personally and have observed only catches by line and only specific species, which just isn’t commercially viable anymore. No other animal product requires the sheer volume of deaths that eating fish does.

I think what this comes down to is a loss of inspiration. You need to re-engage with veganism and animal rights, remember the things that convinced you in the first place, read books, visit a sanctuary, watch films - I have a whole bunch of them here. I’d particularly recommend watching Seaspiracy on Netflix, since this focuses on the fishing industry specifically. You need to get passionate about animal rights again, because that is what you’ve lost by the sounds of it.

I know that some of this will sound harsh, and please understand that I do get it. I know that being vegan has its downsides, and you’re surrounded by people repeating the same old lies we all hear, that whatever problems we have are because or our veganism. We hear it not just from our family and friends, but our teachers, our doctors, all without a scrap of evidence.

It can be hard to stay inspired in the face of a society that demonises, dismisses and discourages us. But we have to, because this isn’t about us at all, it’s about the trillions of animals suffering and dying for human greed. So many of those are fish and other sea animals killed as bycatch. So many in fact that we don’t even bother to measure how many of them are killed - their lives are measured in tonnes. Do you really want to be part of that?

Do not let other people convince you to compromise on your ethics and join them in exploiting and killing animals. You have already made the connection, going back now would benefit no one except those who love to see a vegan fail. My inbox is always open, you should feel free to message me anytime, I never publish anything I am sent that isn’t anonymous. Take care of yourself anon, and remember that you’re not alone in this, you’re part of a connecter, thriving social justice movement, and we’re all rooting for you.

[acti-veg]

Ive had a myriad of health conditions and ive really been considering eating a tiny bit of meat that I am able to get for free without raising demand. Ive been vegan for 6 years and I dont plan on stopping but with everything going on I just feel kinda apathetic and dont think being freegan for like a day is bad. What do you think?

I really cannot think of a health issue which would be improved in any way solely by eating meat, and you have already successfully managed to be vegan for 6 years with your health issues, which is something you should be really proud of. I hear this narrative about not paying for meat pretty frequently, but I think it misses the point about what veganism actually is. Veganism is not just an economic boycott, it is an ethical position and a principles stance against exploitation. If even we are not following our own principles, how can we expect to influence anyone else to do the same? 

Veganism is anti-speciesist, it’s about not viewing animals as resources at all, we object to animal exploitation at it’s foundation, we don’t just object to paying for it. Giving up your veganism for a little bit of meat just seems like a poor choice to me, and assuming you have absolutely any other choice in the matter, giving up on veganism is what it would be - freeganism is not veganism. You likely cannot do much about your health conditions, but it sounds like your apathy is really the bigger problem here, and that is something you absolutely can do something about. Return to those documentaries which first inspired you, watch new ones, read books, visit animals in sanctuaries (when they open up), get involved in the vegan community, take part in activism - whatever it takes to re-ignite your inspiration. 

I have a books and media page to help you with this here, and my book has a whole section on inspiration here. If you manage to find your inspiration again, I can guarantee that you will look back on this ask in disbelief that you ever even considered giving up on your veganism.

[acti-veg]

[Part 1] Thank you for answering. I’ve seen plenty of vegan documentaries and I recommend them to people to help them be vegan, but the thing that just doesn’t connect is if it’s not going to better use and if I’m not supporting demand, then why shouldn’t I eat it? When I first became vegan I disapproved of eating animals, but I still craved it & watching a video of a slaughtered pig doesn’t help me steer away because it’s already been done and would’ve been thrown away.

[Part 2] I don’t think every vegan is pure, but philosophizes ways to be a better person in general because we all benefit from abuse one way or another. I want to be vegan for life, but these questions make me wonder if it’s all that bad to eat an animal if it’s not going to better use.

I just want you to stop and take a look at that word you ended with, “use.” That is the entire point, animal flesh, secretions, skin, eggs or fur are not ours to use or to profit from in any way. They don’t need to be “used,” and it doesn’t make a difference if they’re “wasted,” because they’re not ours to use or waste. Human flesh is “wasted” by being buried, that doesn’t mean anyone should be making things out of it just so it won’t go to waste. I know these things are not the same, but that really is the conclusion to the logic that if you did not pay for or commit the act then it is okay to benefit from it’s consequences. 

You could make this exact same argument about consuming just about anything, or using just about any product, no matter how unethical it may be. Products of slave labour, ivory, fur- anything. I think what you’re missing here is that veganism isn’t just a financial boycott, it is an act of protest against animal exploitation, which is entirely contradicted by the act of eating their flesh, whether you paid for it or not. How can we ever ask others to forego the consumption of animal products if we don’t do it ourselves? Is that the version of veganism we should advocate, to avoid animal exploitation unless you yourself didn’t directly pay for it? By eating animals you put out the message that it’s okay to profit from animal exploitation so long as your doing so does not create demand for animal products. 

Besides, whose to say it doesn’t create demand? it’s not difficult for me to think about one of your friends or family members observing you eating animals and deciding that it’s okay that they too eat animals, and they’re not going to apply that nuance of “unless you paid for it.” They’re going to see you eat animals, see it normalised, and think “well even vegans eat animals, how are they any better? Why should I stop if they haven’t?” And that’s a very fair question, because if even self-professed vegans are telling the world that it’s okay to profit from animal exploitation, how can we expect anyone to follow our example?

 We all benefit from abuse, but the point of veganism is to have as little involvement in that abuse as possible, and by eating animal flesh you are doing the direct opposite of that. I’m not trying to upset you, but I need to impress upon you the fact that there really is no way around this, eating animals is directly in contradiction to vegan ethics and if you continue to do so then you are not vegan. That isn’t me gatekeeping, it’s just applying the actual definition of veganism to what you are doing. I understand that cravings can get bad, and that you can get tempted, that’s something we can do something about, but you will never stop eating animals or being tempted by it so long as you keep trying to find loopholes in veganism which allow you to justify eating animals to yourself.

Please, be honest with yourself, and recognise that you aren’t eating meat because “it’ll go to waste,” you’re doing it because it tastes good. As I said in my last reply, get inspired with your veganism again. If the documentaries don’t do it for you, read the books, the philosophy, listen to lectures, invest in the actual belief system behind veganism rather than just the financial boycott. The road you are heading down is giving up on veganism entirely, and trust me on that, I have seen this happen a hundred times before. It’s a short step from “well if I don’t pay for it it’s fine” to “well if I only buy a little meat I’ll hardly effect demand in any meaningful way, will I?” Before you know it, you’re back to eating animal products full-time, and I wouldn’t want to see that happen to you.

Once again, please feel free to reach out to me if you need help or support. I’d be happy to recommend books and videos, or just to talk to you about this at greater length. I’m sorry if all of this has come across as an attack because that isn’t my intention, I just really don’t want to see the movement lose a vegan because you are finding ways to justify consuming animals to yourself.

[acti-veg]

Hey acti, I’ve been vegan for 3 years and yesterday I ate some pork chop that my sister left to throw away because I felt I wasn’t creating any demand, I do a lot more for animals than most people, and because that used to be my favorite but nothing has come close to it. I feel guilty that I lost my vegan “streak” but although it tasted good, it didnt make me happy and I don’t want animal products again, but I still dont necessarily think it’s the worst thing I could have done. What do u think?

You knowingly ate meat, there is really no getting away from the fact that doing so is unethical. Whether you paid for it or not, you have benefited from the exploitation and slaughter of animals simply because you like the way their flesh tastes, which is what we supposed to be fundamentally opposed to. I’m not trying to sound harsh here at all, but I’m assuming you’ve written to me to hear my honest opinion so I am trying to provide it, and I think that guilt is the appropriate response given the situation.

I think you need to re-inspire yourself with your veganism, for most of us, we wouldn’t even dream of doing this and would find the act of eating it pretty sickening, the fact that you haven’t speaks to something deeper. You need to remind yourself exactly what, and who, you are eating when you eat animals, or I really do believe you’re at risk of giving it up altogether. Treat this as a learning experience, watch those documentaries again, read the books which inspired you, and vow to do better. Let it be a reminder to you of how easy it is to go back on your ethics and put your tastebuds above your values.

If you need any recommendations for documentaries/books I have a resources section with a few here, and if you need any support getting back where you want to be with your veganism then please feel free to get in touch, I’d be more than happy to help.

[acti-veg]

hi acti-veg. i just want to let you know how your blog and site has helped me cope a lot about going vegan/not eating meat. where i live, it's hard to find fellow vegans. (or vegetarians. shamefully i still break my vegan streak at times but i do my best) i've always been made fun of by friends and relatives about this decision of mine and there's so much hate on social media for vegans. it really gets me down but your level headed and rational responses are such a huge comfort. thank you!!!

I’m glad you’re finding my blog helpful. If you need any support with better maintaining your veganism then please let me know, I have some resources on dealing with cravings, getting inspired and such, so I’d be happy to help you out. At a certain point it just isn’t a conscious effort anymore, but you have to get to that place mentally before that’ll be the case, and eating animal products sort of resets your progress on that. Please feel free to get in touch, once I know what it is that is tripping you up it’ll be be much easier to offer some advice.

[acti-veg]

A friend of mine just texted me out of nowhere to tell me that she's not vegan anymore. I already could tell and chose not to say anything, but I don't know how to respond now. I don't want to be like "okay awesome!" because I don't really think it's awesome, but I also don't want her to feel like I'm upset or attacking her because that definitely doesn't help anything. I just don't really know the best way to respond. I also don't think I would be able to convince her to go back to it.

I think you should just be honest about how you feel. Tell them you’re disappointed, but that if they change their mind you’ll be there to help them. Sometimes just not responding at all can be a perfectly good response too, and can say all you need it to. It’s disappointing but it’s important that you keep advocating to them the same way you did before they went vegan, and keep calling them out on harmful behaviour the way you would anyone else. Hopefully one day they’ll come back to it.

[acti-veg]

I reached rock bottom yesterday night and ordered 2 burgers. I dont even know why- I have been vegan for 5 years now. And I just ate the second one because I felt too guilty to throw it away because... this animal died and I just felt like throwing it out would have been worse because of food waste and whatnot. I know fuck ups happen but I feel like a hipocryte tbh because... I am always the one speaking for animal rights and here I am, deep in a dark mental episode, eating an animal myself..

I’m so sorry, it sounds like you’re going through a lot right now. What you did is not good by any means, but the important thing now is that look after your mental health so that you get back to your veganism and restart things up again. You have been vegan for such a long time that it’d be such a tragedy to give up because you’ve made a mistake. Take some time for yourself to heal, and start refocusing yourself on why you’re vegan and what you’re trying to achieve with it. With regards to waste, if anything like this ever happens again you really don’t need to eat anything additional you had leftover. Whether or not their meat is wasted or not makes no difference whatsoever for the animal who has been killed by it, so you’re under no obligation to finish it just because you bought it.

If you need additional support getting back on track then feel free to get back in touch. Take care of yourself anon.

[acti-veg]

i've recently suddenly "stopped" being vegan after two years cause i just feel it's too hard to do (even tho i know for a fact is isnt!!!!) my mental health has reach a new low and i can't even empathise with the environment or even the animals anymore. i know i am doing wrong but i can't seem to care?? is there maybe someone out there with similar experience who can get me on the right track again? i beat myself up about this everyday (rightly mind you) but i wish i knew what to do

It sounds like it is your mental health convincing you that veganism is too hard, or perhaps convincing you that you are incapable of it? Even if you don’t feel like you care, you clearly do because you are obviously distressed and are in a guilt spiral from going back to eating animals. You need to take care of your mental health and perhaps get some support if you can, because otherwise those impulses to go back to apathy will always be there.

You need to get inspired again as it sounds like you’ve forgotten what made you go vegan in the first place. The only person who can really inspire you at this point is you though, I know it is easier said than done but it will be up to you to seek out sources of inspiration, to remember why you wanted to go vegan in the first place, and to re-ignite that passion you once had. That won’t be easy, but you can get it back. I’ve written a detailed post on staying vegan here which covers a lot of this and should set you in the right direction. I hope that will be of some help to you, but please feel free to contact me any time.