#cinder crit

[rwdestuffs]

Mostly because I hate Jaune (to an admittedly unhealthy degree), if Cinder were to just up and kill him, I would be 100% down for her having a redemption arc and being forgiven for her past transgressions.

But it has to be only Jaune that she kills. If she kills Ren or Nora, the deal’s off.

[rwdestuffs]

Cinder is honestly getting boring to hate.

Like, not as a villain, that’s kinda her job, but as a character. She’s like a shitty villainous version of your average shonen protagonist. She only cares about power, but whereas those shonen protags will almost always cite their friends as their source of strength, Cinder actively refuses to really do anything to get any of that power. She doesn’t even dispose of her allies at the right time. She gets rid of them when she wants to instead of after getting what she wants. She admittedly does this correctly with Neo, but she does it incorrectly with the other characters like Watts. She should have killed him after getting the Winter Maiden powers.

And like… Maybe it’s because Watts was never really that interesting to me to begin with, but I really wasn’t that upset when Cinder offed him, but still. Is Salem just going to let that whole thing slide? The only one of her troops that are left is the fire hag, Mercury, and knockoff Scorponok. I get that Shadow Queen’s an omnicidal maniac who is hellbent on making her ex’s life a living hell because he sided with the gods and failed to talk her out of becoming her abusers, but still. Like… This is getting boring.

What’s there left to say about Cinder that hasn’t been said before like a million times? She has poor motives, she’s a bad character, she’s uninteresting, it’s offensive that the literal slave is now a bad guy, she’s an abuser, she never learns her lesson- Like… What else is there to say? In all honesty, Cinder has gotten so boring and tedious to hate that you have to actively look for flaws in her to find something new to critique her for. It’s like the writers just double down on her flaws as a character because they don’t know what else to do with her. Having her learn would make her too powerful for the main heroes to actually defeat, and they want to keep it ‘interesting’ so that the main characters don’t beat her until we get closer to the finale.

Let’s be real: The only reason Cinder is still around is because we still need to have the Ruby vs. Cinder 1v1 where our Silver-Eyed Warrior of Legend defeats Evil Cinderella. Raven should have killed her before hand. Neo should have just stabbed her in the neck at the first opportunity. Cinder has no real reason to still be around anymore. She’s boring as a character, and she’s only around to serve as Ruby’s rival.

I’m tired of hating Cinder. I’d rather hate knockoff Scorponok and Mercury instead. At least they’re interesting to hate.

[rwdestuffs]

I used to hate how bland and boring Cinder was. Now with her backstory…

I just pity her. Not enough to actively want her to have a redemption arc, but enough that I don’t hate her anymore.

In a better written show, she would be a better written character who would have been worthy of a redemption arc.

Much like every character, she deserves better writers.

[rwdestuffs]

The fine line between “waiting too long” for a reveal, and “not waiting long enough.”

I’ve said in a couple recent posts that there is a fine line between “waiting too long” for a reveal, and “not waiting long enough.”

And again: I do want to reiterate that this is a hard sweetspot to land in. So I’m not going to fault the writers for being too late with the fire hag’s backstory too much here.

When crafting a backstory for a character, it’s important to know what that story is from the get-go. Now, I’ve read plenty of fanfics that basically did more or less, the backstory we got for Cinder here. And they go out of their way to emphasize that all the time.

The downside is that Cinder’s character didn’t really establish that this was what was going on, outside of her Cinderella inspired name.

So what’s up with the whole “’Do you believe in destiny?’ ‘Yes.’“ thing? It kinda gives off an idea that Cinder believes that it’s her destiny to do all that for power.

Now, props to the writers (I’m not sure how to feel about typing that), but making Cinder believe in destiny when her corresponding relic is the one of choice is kinda smart. But the problem is that it’s not capitalized on.

So after all the inconsistencies with her character, Cinder’s whole backstory is that she was abused by her adopted mother and sisters. Which, again: I’ve read plenty of fanfics where this is indeed Cinder’s backstory. And credit where it’s due, it does sorta explain why she targeted Weiss back in volume 5.

But the problem is that since Cinder’s motives were so inconsistent, we don’t see what all this means. There were several opportunities for Cinder to have had her backstory revealed.

The first example was right after she killed Pyrrha. Having her most heinous action being immediately contrasted with them trying to earn her sympathy points would have been an interesting take. But it could have just as easily been too soon.

These guys did Hazel’s backstory too soon as well. In a sense, there is a reason why he’s mad at Oz. Hyping it up would have been an interesting way to develop his own story and they could have had more time to come up with something that wasn’t stupid as hell. Instead of doing something smart like “Oz reduced his sister to a statistic” or “Oz was directly at fault for his sister’s death” it’s instead “Hazel’s mad because Oz is constantly sending kids to fight against an immortal opponent.” By doing this too soon, they didn’t have enough time to think of something that wasn’t dumb. Instead of using Hazel’s backstory to make Oz look morally gray or morally ambiguous, the writers basically made him to be the one who defects.

Emerald is RIGHT THERE! The abused homeless girl who was stuck on the streets who just wanted to be able to eat is RIGHT THERE! Emerald could have easily been the one that would have been the one to defect.

Who am I kidding?- She’s going to defect along with Hazel.

If Hazel acts as an actual father figure to Emerald, that would probably be neat.

I got off-topic here.

Cinder’s backstory doesn’t really work in this context either. That Rhodes guy is a huntsman, right? Why didn’t he do something to help Cinder? Why didn’t he report the abuse she was enduring?

Oh wait, those people are rich. They probably have the same immunity as Jacques.

The point is that he should know what she went through, and should have offered to help her instead of doing… that dumb fight.

Another issue?- These writers took the complaints about Jaune’s backstory reveal back in volume 1 and took the absolute WRONG THING from it. The audience isn’t sick of multi-episode arcs dedicated to a single character, they were upset because it was dedicated to a character that wasn’t the main characters back in volume 1. Jaune getting FOUR FUCKING EPISODES TO HIMSELF OUT OF SIXTEEN BEFORE YANG OR BLAKE GOT THEIRS is what made people upset. Only an idiot with an ego the size of the moon would think that it was because people hated backstories.

Oh wait, Miles is writing this series.

Jaune’s backstory was also something that was revealed too soon. But that’s mostly because the other main characters hadn’t gotten theirs yet. Because Miles thought that the generic white kid whose initial wasn’t in the title that he voices was a bigger priority than the B and the Y of the show.

Not only was Cinder’s backstory revealed too late, but it wasn’t something that was adequately foreshadowed. Something that would have been a good indicator?- She looks at food service and she gives them a big tip and treats them with the upmost respect. “The evil fire lady gives food service employees a large tip and treats them better than other customers?- What gives?” It would signal the idea that there is more to her than the first appearance.

The issue is that these guys are kinda winging it. They didn’t plan on Cinder’s backstory ahead enough.

Again: Not faulting them too hard on this one. Landing the sweetspot for the right time to reveal a backstory is hard, especially for villains. So I’m not particularly mad at the Cinder backstory reveal. But really, I don’t think the writers should be surprised if people still don’t have sympathy for the fire hag.

[rwdestuffs]

Thanks CRWBY for ruining the Mama Cinder AU fics that used a similar backstory that you gave to canon Cinder. Way to tell us that even if she was abused, she’d still be a selfish uncaring mass murderer hellbent on destroying the world.

Thanks a fucking lot.

[rwdestuffs]

I find it kinda funny that I wrote this whole thing on how they have to reveal Cinder’s backstory soon, and now that we got some crumbs… It’s really underwhelming.

Yep. They definitely waited too long to reveal the fire hag’s backstory for a majority of people to care. Nobody wants Cinder to have a redemption arc. Like… Maybe if this was revealed last volume, then maybe people would be more open to it, but as of right now, the only acceptable “redemption” that Cinder could get is one where the heroes reject her.

Like… She can change all she wants, but she didn’t show remorse after all those deaths (maybe a tiny bit of Pyrrha’s, but that’s debatable as to what she was crying about), and she was so power-hungry that she’s basically a foil to Ironwood now.

Like… We got Salem’s backstory so fast and so rushed that people complained about it being too short. So they’re only now revealing Cinder’s? The fire hag had hers draw out more than the big bad grimm queen?

Still miffed that nobody is pointing out that Salem was a victim of gaslighting by the way.

So yeah. The writers waited too long to reveal Cider’s backstory, and now it’s probably going to bite them. I won’t fault them too hard, I did openly say that it’s hard to land in that sweet spot between “Waiting too long” and “Not waiting long enough.” So, no hard feeling about messing up the timing there, but really… This had better not be used as another “tormented abuse victim didn’t deal with abuse in a healthy way, so they are now an irredeemable unsympathetic villain” story. Because we already got one of those with Salem.

Like… Seriously. Shadow Queen deserves a redemption arc more than Cinder.

[rwdestuffs]

I'm kind of wondering if they are planning to go down the route of a Vader-Esqe 'Its too late for me' Arc.

They had Rhodes say 'Thats all you'll ever do' after she killed her family(*Cough* owners *Couph*) Before trying to arrest her, essentially giving up on her. And we know one theme with her is supposed to be her belief in Destiny.

Vader at least showed remorse for his actions. Emerald showed remorse for what she did. She should be allowed a redemption arc way before Cinder.

I’ll say this much: Cinder can be offered redemption. But whether or not she takes it is up to her. Or rather, the writers. Like… she was in the right for killing her owners. And anyone trying to claim otherwise are the same people who think that it was Blake’s “job” to fix Adam and make him better. They’re the people who think that it’s up to the victim to redeem their abusers. They’re the pieces of shit you flush down the toilet.

[rwdestuffs]

Yes. Cinder’s backstory is sad.

No. This doesn’t automatically equal redemption arc.

Yes. The huntsman she befriended is a goddamn moron/sociopath for not drawing the line at child abuse.

No. Him being beaten by Cinder doesn’t make Cinder a threat, it makes the hunters idiots and poor fighters.

Yes. This does make Cinder targeting Weiss back in volume 5 make some sense.

No. This doesn’t excuse any of Cinder’s inconsistency or actions in any way.